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StateofTrance
03-21-2010, 09:45 PM
I'm not going to chant "Oh noes here comes more communism", "Obama is a blah blah blah", "It's unconstitutional etc.", "redistribution of money" etc.

Disclaimer: I was born in India and our universal healthcare (it's a nice public-vs-private enterprise, competitive system) is decent enough that Westerners come and spend $1B every year (google "medical tourism")


BUT


The US has NO MONEY. Uncle Sam is soon going to lose AAA rating. That's all.
What were the Democrats thinking?

Warrior_of_Freedom
03-21-2010, 09:46 PM
Democrats were thinking democratically, majority rules even if it's by 1 vote.

FrankRep
03-21-2010, 09:49 PM
The US has NO MONEY. Uncle Sam is soon going to lose AAA rating. That's all.
What were the Democrats thinking?

They're following in the footsteps of their hero Franklin D. Roosevelt.

legion
03-21-2010, 09:52 PM
I'm not going to chant "Oh noes here comes more communism", "Obama is a blah blah blah", "It's unconstitutional etc.", "redistribution of money" etc.

Disclaimer: I was born in India and our universal healthcare (it's a nice public-vs-private enterprise, competitive system) is decent enough that Westerners come and spend $1B every year (google "medical tourism")


BUT


The US has NO MONEY. Uncle Sam is soon going to lose AAA rating. That's all.
What were the Democrats thinking?

Westerners from which countries? I thought all of the best Indian medical students do their residencies in the US.

IS your health care system like our university system (public versus private)?

freshjiva
03-21-2010, 09:52 PM
Nice StateofTrance! Whereabouts in India are you from? I am from Gujarat.

I really wish we had a Ron Paul-type Lok or Rajya Sabha member in Indian Parliament.

Legend1104
03-21-2010, 09:52 PM
One of the biggest problems with this health care thing is lack of education. Too many good intended people have no knowledge of economics or of natural rights, or of civics. The argument is an understandable one. "We need to give people health care that does not break the bank, etc. etc." The problem is that people are using emotion rather than logic. It is true that the system needs fixing, but too few Americans truely know what the real problem is. I have talked to friends that support this health care bill thing that are very open to me discussing true economics and natural rights in regards to this. Once they understand the truth, they begin to change their views. It is only the people that have different motives that bother me. In reality I find that my rep. friends are less open to ending the wars than dems. to backing away from healthcare.

TCE
03-21-2010, 09:53 PM
That's the argument. When you're $14 trillion in debt, you really can't afford to take on a trillion more. Especially if this government program goes over budget just like every other one: Amtrak, the Post Office, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.

EDIT: Also keep in mind that this isn't "Health Care" it is "Sick Care." If you're perfectly healthy, you get taxed to pay for the sick people and receive no benefit. In India, you guys are worlds ahead of us as far as nutrition is concerned.

StateofTrance
03-21-2010, 09:55 PM
Westerners from which countries? I thought all of the best Indian medical students do their residencies in the US.

IS your health care system like our university system (public versus private)?

Yes, they come here, study and do residency at Medical Ivies and go back home to earn a shit load of $$$$

StateofTrance
03-21-2010, 09:57 PM
Nice StateofTrance! Whereabouts in India are you from? I am from Gujarat.

I really wish we had a Ron Paul-type Lok or Rajya Sabha member in Indian Parliament.

North east :) I've lost hope and hence zilch interest in Indian politics.

freshjiva
03-21-2010, 10:02 PM
Not only medical students, but there is a growing trend of patients coming to Indian hospitals to get procedures done at literally a fifth of the cost. Hip replacements, corrective surgeries, etc.

The Asian Heart Institute in Mumbai is a prime example of health institutions in India getting large percentages of their patients from Western nations.

legion
03-21-2010, 10:02 PM
EDIT: Also keep in mind that this isn't "Health Care" it is "Sick Care." If you're perfectly healthy, you get taxed to pay for the sick people and receive no benefit. In India, you guys are worlds ahead of us as far as nutrition is concerned.

India is worlds ahead the US in nutrition? Just because the food at the Indian restaurant down the street seems 'healthy' does not mean the country itself has good nutrition. Many people go hungry.

TCE
03-21-2010, 10:07 PM
India is worlds ahead the US in nutrition? Just because the food at the Indian restaurant down the street seems 'healthy' does not mean the country itself has good nutrition. Many people go hungry.

I don't eat at restaurants, fast food places, etc. I mean the actual country. People there eat real foods, not the processed crap we eat. Hopefully even as the country becomes wealthier, it doesn't give up its whole foods for McDonald's and other American garbage.

legion
03-21-2010, 10:13 PM
I don't eat at restaurants, fast food places, etc. I mean the actual country. People there eat real foods, not the processed crap we eat. Hopefully even as the country becomes wealthier, it doesn't give up its whole foods for McDonald's and other American garbage.

The lack of fortified, bio engineered, and processed foods is exactly why the majority of Indians are malnourished.

TCE
03-21-2010, 10:15 PM
The lack of fortified, bio engineered, and processed foods is exactly why the majority of Indians are malnourished.

...Yeah...no. The reason Indians are malnourished is because they don't have food, not because they don't have our junk that is called food. We are the sickest nation in the history of the world for a reason, we have the worst food supply in the history of the world.

legion
03-21-2010, 10:21 PM
...Yeah...no. The reason Indians are malnourished is because they don't have food, not because they don't have our junk that is called food. We are the sickest nation in the history of the world for a reason, we have the worst food supply in the history of the world.

We are the sickest nation in the history of the world by what measure? Life expectancy? :rolleyes:

I suppose you're going to try and sell me miracle food that cures cancer now?

freshjiva
03-21-2010, 10:23 PM
The lack of fortified, bio engineered, and processed foods is exactly why the majority of Indians are malnourished.

Legion, I usually agree with your posts but gotta disagree here. Middle class Indians and above live comfortably well and are well nourished. The folks who simply don't have access to food are the ones who are malnourished, which unfortunately represent about 25% of the country's 1.2 billion population...

But traditional Indian meals include a balance of fresh fruit, wheat-based flours, grilled and stir-fried vegetables, lots of beans, and a lot of dairy.

Alternative medicines, also known as Ayurveda, is an age-old wisdom that is still being passed on by generation.

legion
03-21-2010, 10:36 PM
Legion, I usually agree with your posts but gotta disagree here. Middle class Indians and above live comfortably well and are well nourished. The folks who simply don't have access to food are the ones who are malnourished, which unfortunately represent about 25% of the country's 1.2 billion population...

But traditional Indian meals include a balance of fresh fruit, wheat-based flours, grilled and stir-fried vegetables, lots of beans, and a lot of dairy.

Alternative medicines, also known as Ayurveda, is an age-old wisdom that is still being passed on by generation.

The poor in the cities can't get nourishment because all of the agricultural land is locked up by politics in little 2 acre plots by subsistence farmers with inadequate tools. How can they provide food for the cities if they can only feed themselves.

In the US we don't even drive our tractors anymore. A computer does it and the operator sits in the cab to turn it off if something goes wrong.

I respect your traditional beliefs, but processed and fortified foods are better than none at all.

mtj458
03-21-2010, 10:41 PM
I'm drifting more and more towards the attitude that the dollar is going to collapse eventually anyway, even if we didn't pass health care, from social security and medicare, so why even care what happens at this point. Maybe the sooner the dollar collapses the sooner we can begin on the right track.