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GunnyFreedom
03-19-2010, 08:29 AM
Too busy for words right now, please help me with forming a response.

On Facebook, the husband of a local political neocon blogger who hates BJ Lawson sez:



Glen, Libertarian is my code word for people who think they ought to be able to do anything they want whenever they want. People who believe in freedom for freedom's sake, instead of freedom and liberty as a vehicle for civic virtue and a moral society. I don't believe our Founding Fathers who crafted the Constitution would approve of legalized pornography, legalized prostitution, state lotteries, or abortion on demand. They wouldn't accept that individuals should be able to do whatever they hell they want regardless of the consequences to their family or to society.

Libertarian is also my code word for people with a myopic understanding of national security. Their approach to external threats is to stick their head in the sand, and wait to be attacked first. They believe our foreign enemies, who have publicly called for our destruction, have the same right as us as "sovereign" nations to have nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction.

Aside from social, geopolitical, and national security issues, I think I can agree with Libertarians on many fiscal issues. Republicans were routed in past elections because of fiscal irresponsibility. In violation of their own Party platform, the GOP had failed to permanently cut taxes, reduce regulations, reform the tax code, or reduce the size of government. If libertarian GOP organizations like the Republican Liberty Caucus can help the Party to remember and promulgate fiscal conservatism, then I'm all for that.

remember, we are trying to reach out to grassroots level republicans -- not to alienate them...

Thanks!

PBrady
03-19-2010, 09:52 AM
Oh my.

It's tough to write a response to things like these because there's so much philosophical stuff to get in to, and most people don't like the cognitive dissonance they experience when they realize that the same argument could be flipped and used to back up some progressive liberal ideology.

Also, I like that slogan: Freedom for Freedom's Sake!

GunnyFreedom
03-19-2010, 10:24 AM
he got an 'amen' from a dittohead

aclove
03-19-2010, 11:01 AM
So who is this clown, Glen?

GunnyFreedom
03-19-2010, 11:10 AM
So who is this clown, Glen?

Katie Benningfield's hubby

aclove
03-19-2010, 11:28 AM
Oh, geez, THAT guy? Those two are hopeless, there's no way in hell we're going to reach out to or educate them. To them, freedom and liberty come a distant second to forcing their values on the rest of society. They're honest about that and aren't ashamed of it. These are the kind of people we have to out-organize and deprive of power or influence, not reach out to.

Katy's readers might be reachable, depending on how emotionally invested they are in whatever worldview they already have. Katy herself and her family, not hardly.

GunnyFreedom
03-19-2010, 11:41 AM
Oh, geez, THAT guy? Those two are hopeless, there's no way in hell we're going to reach out to or educate them. To them, freedom and liberty come a distant second to forcing their values on the rest of society. They're honest about that and aren't ashamed of it. These are the kind of people we have to out-organize and deprive of power or influence, not reach out to.

Katy's readers might be reachable, depending on how emotionally invested they are in whatever worldview they already have. Katy herself and her family, not hardly.

It's not them I'm trying to reach, this was in response to a query from another user "New to the area, who are the good candidates?" for that user, and for the others who are on the thread.

This guy obviously does not care what America is actually about, nor will he, ever.

aclove
03-19-2010, 12:18 PM
Ah, gotcha. I wasn't sure if this exchange with him was private or happening on a public forum. Yeah, his arguments definitely need to be refuted in a constitutionally-oriented way, specifically pointing out the inherent contradiction between a stated desire for limited government and using government to push a particular socio-religious/national greatness worldview.

GunnyFreedom
03-19-2010, 12:26 PM
problem is my convention is tonight. I'm busier than a 1 armed wallpaper hangar rt now

aclove
03-19-2010, 01:37 PM
I don't doubt it. I'm tied up myself; gotta run home, eat, change, and then get over to Pat and Jimmmy's to help prep his drag truck for its unveiling next Saturday at the C4L/Appleseed BBQ.

LibertarianfromGermany
03-20-2010, 08:53 PM
Well, I'm too tired to write a full response right now (4am here), but maybe you could utilize Reagen's quote that libertarianism is the heart of conservatism.