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Live_Free_Or_Die
03-14-2010, 09:58 PM
nt

tremendoustie
03-14-2010, 10:10 PM
Self-ownership is self evident because free will is the evidence you have title to your body.

The self evident nature of the market (voluntary exchanges between people) is that individual freedom or life is not guaranteed.

If someone points a gun at you, you do not lose free will. You have a choice and make it voluntarily. You either submit or resist.


That does not make their action moral. The fact that you have a choice between dying or handing your wallet over does not mean you have not been coerced - you should have the option of living and paying nothing.



If you submit do you have just grounds to complain about being coerced?


Of course. I think you're being silly. The fact that I have the option of dying does not make my handing over my wallet a voluntary act. The person has no right to restrict my options in that way.



Is it wrong to conspire with the coerced and point a gun at the tyrant who coerced you that you voluntarily submitted to.


It's right to use force to defend yourself against the coercion of others, yes. If someone gives you the option of "your money or your life", you would be right to give them the option of "leave me alone or your life".



There seems to be a contradiction here. Either if it is wrong to submit when coerced or it is wrong to conspire with people who have voluntarily submitted and point a gun at the tyrant you submitted to.


I do not follow your logic in the slightest.

Acts under duress are not "voluntary".



Is it still coercion if someone only threatens to point a gun at you but doesn't actually point a gun at you?


Yes.




How can there be a systematic failure of the market if all of the market participants have free will? There can only be failure of individuals.


Yes, that's what we have. A failure of individuals. Specifically, those who use aggressive violence.




People who subscribe to free markets maintain the only way to prevent coercion is eternal vigilance.

People who subscribe to limited government maintain the only way to prevent tyranny is eternal vigilance.


Yep. It is my view that the eternal vigilance in defense of the free market is far more practical and less arduous than eternal vigilance in restricting a central government.



I think we ought to put the magic fairy dust back in the drawer before it becomes outlawed and are unable to pass it down to future generations. I assert the safest way to resist coercion (or threats of) is geographical organization. A while back someone challenged me to make the case for geographical organization... there you have it.

Geographic organization, to concentrate the vigilant, makes their efforts more likely to succeed. Vigilance is still required -- and in our case, reform as well. Geographic concentration is an aid to those ends.

I definitely, wholeheartedly support the FSP, if that is the point of your post :)

hillbilly123069
03-14-2010, 10:49 PM
The market and world banking systems are flawed in respect of how they were meant to be perceived.They are merely a system of tyrannical control.How would it be possible to have a monetary collapse when the gold itself is valuable without a # stamped on it?

Live_Free_Or_Die
03-15-2010, 01:41 AM
nt

Live_Free_Or_Die
03-15-2010, 01:56 AM
nt

Live_Free_Or_Die
03-15-2010, 06:12 AM
nt