Buying some Gold today; $1,195/oz for 2009 1oz eagles?

[ghengis86]

I was at my local coin shop today and was looking to pick up some more gold with my FRNs. For a couple 1oz US Gold Eagles, I was quoted $1,195/oz+tax. That's 8.6% above spot right now. Is it worth trying the internets for a better deal? Thoughts?

[Jordan]

From http://www.apmex.com : Sell Price $1,162.45

1oz eagles either gold or silver carry the highest premium of any coin. If you're looking for bullion, and strictly bullion, your best prices are going to come from foreign coins/bars.

[ghengis86]

From http://www.apmex.com : Sell Price $1,162.45

1oz eagles either gold or silver carry the highest premium of any coin. If you're looking for bullion, and strictly bullion, your best prices are going to come from foreign coins/bars.

i've got a few krugerrands and some eagles already. maybe a credit suisse bar or canadian coin? the eagles are pretty though...

[jclay2]

I would go for krugerrands. They are much more trusted than bars and don't have that high of a premium.

[YumYum]

Here is how you test the gold market. All we talk about on this forum is about buying gold. Try and sell the physical gold you possess and see what you end up with. Has anybody here sold their gold recently?

[eric_cartman]

Here is how you test the gold market. All we talk about on this forum is about buying gold. Try and sell the physical gold you possess and see what you end up with. Has anybody here sold their gold recently?

i can sell it to www.cash4gold.com whenever i want!

[eric_cartman]

Here is how you test the gold market. All we talk about on this forum is about buying gold. Try and sell the physical gold you possess and see what you end up with. Has anybody here sold their gold recently?

lol... i love how you think it's impossible to sell gold. i can sell as much gold as i want to my local coin store whenever i want for the spot price (maybe even a bit more depending on the coin and the condition). i bought my gold from them, and they are always willing to buy it back. that's what they do... they buy gold and sell it to other people. there are plenty of coin stores all around the world that will be happy to buy your gold at spot prices.

[Bruno]

Here is how you test the gold market. All we talk about on this forum is about buying gold. Try and sell the physical gold you possess and see what you end up with. Has anybody here sold their gold recently?

Have you sold yours?

[eric_cartman]

I was at my local coin shop today and was looking to pick up some more gold with my FRNs. For a couple 1oz US Gold Eagles, I was quoted $1,195/oz+tax. That's 8.6% above spot right now. Is it worth trying the internets for a better deal? Thoughts?

that seems a little expensive. also, if you pay in cash, many coins stores will not charge you tax.

but the good thing about buying your gold from a coin store with cash, is that there is no transaction record of you owning that gold. you're the only one who knows that you own it. if you just take a bunch of cash out from your bank, the government doesn't know if you bought gold with it, or went out and bought expensive dinners at restaurents.

And then a few years later, when the gold goes up in price, you can go and sell your gold for cash again, and then you can decide if you want to pay a capital gains tax since the government has no knowledge of the fact that you own gold. so that's why it can be better to buy your gold in cash from a local coin store, even if you have to pay a bit more.

in toronto, you can buy gold from the major banks... they have precious metals desks and you can buy as much gold as you want. but you have to fill out all sorts of paper work and there is a paper trail of the fact that you own gold. but if you buy from a coin store with cash, no one will know how much gold you own, what price you bought it at, and what price you're selling it at.

[YumYum]

lol... i love how you think it's impossible to sell gold. i can sell as much gold as i want to my local coin store whenever i want for the spot price (maybe even a bit more depending on the coin and the condition). i bought my gold from them, and they are always willing to buy it back. that's what they do... they buy gold and sell it to other people. there are plenty of coin stores all around the world that will be happy to buy your gold at spot prices.

I don't think it is impossible to sell gold. If you can get spot price for your gold that is a good indicator that gold is not all hype. You make out that your coin dealer shop just loves to trade gold and is not interested in making a profit. That is very nice. I wish I had a coin shop like that where I live. Are you sure you you are not confusing "returning" your gold for a "full refund", with "selling" your gold? Why would a coin shop pay you spot price?

[Bruno]

I don't think it is impossible to sell gold. If you can get spot price for your gold that is a good indicator that gold is not all hype. You make out that your coin dealer shop just loves to trade gold and is not interested in making a profit. That is very nice. I wish I had a coin shop like that where I live. Are you sure you you are not confusing "returning" your gold for a "full refund", with "selling" your gold? Why would a coin shop pay you spot price?

Have you been to a coin shop before, YumYum? If not, that is a good place to further your gold knowledge, because it doesn't appear you are aware of how gold is bought and sold in the market.

Multiple coin shops I have been to purchase gold (we're not talking "returns" here) at spot price (or higher), and sell it at a price above spot. That's how dealers make their profits, which is no secret. If someone walks in and sells an American Gold Eagle one ounce coin to them for $1141.50 ($40 over today's spot price), and someone else wants to buy that same coin two minutes later, they are charged $85 over spot or $1185.01 (the mark up can vary).

Call them yourself : Phone: 515-251-4031

http://christophersjewelry.com/sellcoins.htm

Me: How much do you buy and sell K-Rands for?
Coin shop: We purchase for $5 over spot, and sell for $40 over spot.
Me: What about American Gold Eagles?
Coin shop: We purchase for $40 over spot, and sell for $85 over spot.

[YumYum]

Have you been to a coin shop before, YumYum? If not, that is a good place to further your gold knowledge, because it doesn't appear you are aware of how gold is bought and sold in the market.

Multiple coin shops I have been to purchase gold (we're not talking "returns" here) at spot price (or higher), and sell it at a price above spot. That's how dealers make their profits, which is no secret. If someone walks in and sells an American Gold Eagle one ounce coin to them for $1141.50 ($40 over today's spot price), and someone else wants to buy that same coin two minutes later, they are charged $85 over spot or $1185.01 (the mark up can vary).

Call them yourself : Phone: 515-251-4031

http://christophersjewelry.com/sellcoins.htm

Me: How much do you buy and sell K-Rands for?
Coin shop: We purchase for $5 over spot, and sell for $40 over spot.
Me: What about American Gold Eagles?
Coin shop: We purchase for $40 over spot, and sell for $85 over spot.

My dad talked to a coin shop. They will not pay you spot for bullion. They will pay you less because they need to make a profit. I am talking about gold, not gold coins minted in 1933.

[Bruno]

My dad talked to a coin shop. They will not pay you spot for bullion. They will pay you less because they need to make a profit. I am talking about gold, not gold coins minted in 1933.

Call the coin shop I gave the number for. They pay the prices I quoted, I called them just before my post. So does the other coin shop I have visited. I'm talking gold eagles and krugerrands of recent mintage, NOT coins minted numismatics like pre-1933 as you mention.

This is common practice and they have both been in business doing business that way for decades and are highly reputable.

If you look at my example above, the coin shop is still making a $45 profit by the resale of the coin they just bought. They are not in the non-profit business.

Spot = wholesale
Above spot (sale price) = retail

Its not that complicated.

In the example of the coin shop your father told you about (post the phone number, I'd be glad to call them and provide the details on how much they buy/sell for to show their profit is similar), if in fact they do purchase below spot, they probably don't charge as much of a market over spot when they sell to you, either. Or, they could be talking about cash-for-gold, where people bring in gold items which have to be melted. It is common knowledge you get far less for your gold this way than buying and selling minted coins, as they need to melt your coin, purify, add with other metals to re-mint, which is costlier.

[Bruno]

I just called the Stamp and Coin Shop in Seatle, WA, chosen randomly through a qwestdex search. They are set up a little differently.

Me: How much do you buy and sell K-Rands for:
Coin Shop: The price varies depending on the market. For current prices we would buy for $10 under spot, and sell for $68 over spot.
Me: How much do you buy and sell gold eagles for?:
Coin Shop: Current price we would buy for $11 over spot, and sell for $93 over spot.

So, for all things being similiar, this coin shop would make a $78 profit buying a K-Rand and selling it a minute later to another customer. They would make a a $82 profit buying a gold eagle and selling it one minute later.

The coin shop I go to would make a $35 profit on each K-Rand, and a $45 profit on each gold eagle.

Moral of the story: Do your research, and call around. The coin shop your dad called is not the only one around. There are plenty of reputable shops that will purchase your gold coins or bars at reasonable prices, at or around spot, and still be able to make a profit.

[YumYum]

Call the coin shop I gave the number for. They pay the prices I quoted, I called them just before my post. So does the other coin shop I have visited. I'm talking gold eagles and krugerrands of recent mintage, NOT coins minted numismatics like pre-1933 as you mention.

This is common practice and they have both been in business doing business that way for decades and are highly reputable.

If you look at my example above, the coin shop is still making a $45 profit by the resale of the coin they just bought. They are not in the non-profit business.

Spot = wholesale
Above spot (sale price) = retail

Its not that complicated.

In the example of the coin shop your father told you about (post the phone number, I'd be glad to call them and provide the details on how much they buy/sell for to show their profit is similar), if in fact they do purchase below spot, they probably don't charge as much of a market over spot when they sell to you, either. Or, they could be talking about cash-for-gold, where people bring in gold items which have to be melted. It is common knowledge you get far less for your gold this way than buying and selling minted coins, as they need to melt your coin, purify, add with other metals to re-mint, which is costlier.

Bruno...you are talking about coins. Coins have a different value than bullion. My question to you and the other gold bugs is what do you get for your gold bullion? I can pay spot price for bullion at the gold mine in Helena, Montana. How much can you get for your bullion when you sell it? You will not get spot price. If gold were in such a great demand you would get spot price.

[Bruno]

Bruno...you are talking about coins. Coins have a different value than bullion. My question to you and the other gold bugs is what do you get for your gold bullion? I can pay spot price for bullion at the gold mine in Helena, Montana. How much can you get for your bullion when you sell it? You will not get spot price. If gold were in such a great demand you would get spot price.

I guess I have to do your research for you? And I'll ask the question again, since you ignored it - have you been to a coin shop before?

btw -- you never mentioned the word bullion, and this thread was about gold eagle coins, which are not bullion.

Same coin shop. just called them back (for your question).

Purchase gold at $25 under spot, sell gold bullion at $50 over spot.

Which really is moot. If you buy gold bullion or buy gold minted coins, you are going to have to wait a certain amount of time to make a return on your money, if that was your intent.

Your claim of "if gold were in such great demand you would get spot price" is really flawed logic. It is in demand all the time, to varying degrees. If gold were not in demand now, then people wouldn't be paying $1100 an ounce for it. Different shops charge different prices above and below spot and charge other mark-ups above spot to make their profits.

[YumYum]

I guess I have to do your research for you? And I'll ask the question again. since you ignored it - have you been to a coin shop before?

Same coin shop. just called them back (for your question).

Purchase gold at $25 under spot, sell gold bullion at $50 over spot.

Which really is moot. If you buy gold bullion or buy gold minted coins, you are going to have to wait a certain amount of time to make a return on your money, if that was your intent.

Your claim of "if gold were in such great demand you would get spot price" is really flawed logic. It is in demand all the time, to varying degrees. If gold were not in demand now, then people wouldn't be paying $1100 an ounce for it. Different shops charge different prices above and below spot and charge other mark-ups above spot to make their profits.

: "Purchase gold at $25 under spot, sell gold bullion at $50 over spot."

Let's cut through the crap. You are saying I can buy gold bullion for $25 under spot, and turn around and sell the same bullion to the same people for $50 over spot? If this is true, why didn't you tell us earlier? Bruno...I called the shop...that is not what they said. You are misinforming the good people here.

But, if you are right...lets buy gold from the shop and turn around and sell it for an incredible profit. Any takers?

[eric_cartman]

coin stores will often buy coins and bullion through official channels... and they can never buy for below the spot price when they buy from a mint or some other official distributor. So when a customer comes in and wants to sell gold, they can offer spot price (or a little bit below spot price) and are happy to buy from a customer because they can buy it for a bit cheaper than they would otherwise be paying.

[Bruno]

you never mentioned bullion until now, YumYum! This thread was about gold eagles, you are the one who is misleading and constantly ignoring facts, changing the subject, not answering questions, etc.

And I am not "misleading the good people here, you don't know how to read. Each example I gave was from the dealer's perspective.

They PURCHASE from you at $25 under spot, and they SELL it back to others at $50 over spot. I highly doubt you called, if so, please let me know the name of the person you spoke with, only two are working today. You say you called them. Prove it and what they said. Anyone else can call and confirm for me:

515-251-4031

[YumYum]

you never mentioned bullion until now, YumYum!

What are you talking about? Coins verses bullion? Am I an idiot? Please help me! If I walk into a coin shop with a gold coin minted in 1933 I am going to receive more than the value of the spot price of gold. Aren't we talking about gold bullion? I didn't know that all the gold bugs here are coin collectors. Bruno...are you a coin collector?

[YumYum]

My point to all you gold bugs is this. Whatever gold you buy today, and try to sell today, you will lose your ass.

[eric_cartman]

Bruno...you are talking about coins. Coins have a different value than bullion. My question to you and the other gold bugs is what do you get for your gold bullion? I can pay spot price for bullion at the gold mine in Helena, Montana. How much can you get for your bullion when you sell it? You will not get spot price. If gold were in such a great demand you would get spot price.

yes... with a bullion bar, you might have to settle for a little bit under spot depending on when/where you sell it... but not very much under. but if you bought bullion, than you're also paying very close to spot... so it's really no different than paying a bigger premium for the coins and selling for spot or a bit over spot.

say you can buy bullion at spot, and you can sell bullion at $20 under spot. or, you can buy a coin (like a maple leaf) for $20 over spot, and then sell for the spot price. either way, it's about the same, and you'll get a pretty good price for you gold when you sell it. obviously it's not good if you're buying gold and then selling it next the next week... but if you're buying for the long term, the amount that you'll lose on the transaction costs are minimal. The first 5 ounces of gold i bought were at $660... do i really care that i might only be able to get $1080 for that gold if i were to sell it today? it's still one of the best investments i could have made.

and lol at "If gold were in such a great demand you would get spot price". When gold is in great demand, the spot price goes up. that's what the spot price means. it's true that there are times when physical gold is in greater demand (like in late 2008)... but most of the time, the greater demand for gold will just push the spot price up higher, rather than push premiums up.... the premiums don't normally fulculatte too much.

hey Yum Yum... why not just admit that you were wrong? Burno proved that it is easy to sell your gold at very close to the spot price. you're wrong... face it.

[YumYum]

yes... with a bullion bar, you might have to settle for a little bit under spot depending on when/where you sell it... but not very much under. but if you bought bullion, than you're also paying very close to spot... so it's really no different than paying a bigger premium for the coins and selling for spot or a bit over spot.

say you can buy bullion at spot, and you can sell bullion at $20 under spot. or, you can buy a coin (like a maple leaf) for $20 over spot, and then sell for the spot price. either way, it's about the same, and you'll get a pretty good price for you gold when you sell it. obviously it's not good if you're buying gold and then selling it next the next week... but if you're buying for the long term, the amount that you'll lose on the transaction costs are minimal. The first 5 ounces of gold i bought were at $660... do i really care that i might only be able to get $1080 for that gold if i were to sell it today? it's still one of the best investments i could have made.

and lol at "If gold were in such a great demand you would get spot price". When gold is in great demand, the spot price goes up. that's what the spot price means. it's true that there are times when physical gold is in greater demand (like in late 2008)... but most of the time, the greater demand for gold will just push the spot price up higher, rather than push premiums up.... the premiums don't normally fulculatte too much.

hey Yum Yum... why not just admit that you were wrong? Burno proved that it is easy to sell your gold at very close to the spot price. you're wrong... face it.

Eric...why isn't gold $3,000-4,000 an ounce?

[ghengis86]

alright, let's cut out the bullshit. YumYum, are gold bugs known for selling their gold at a loss, the same day or week they buy it? I always thought gold bugs hung onto their gold for long periods of time, not 'losing their ass' by making porr short term financial decisions.

I called another dealer and got a much better answer then my coin shop:
For eagles, he's sell about $60 over spot; K-rands $35 over spot. He said he buys for a few percent under spot.

He happens to be an independent jewlery store owner, who also dabbels in gold coins and bullion, silver, WWI and WWII collections, antiques, etc. He's been doing custom rings and watches for my family for a while now, with much better prices than the chain stores (Jared, Zales, etc) for identical work. He doesn't have a big inventory of gold, but he can usually set up some nice deals. He'll even pay spot prices for your gold if he's got a few buyers already lined up. I'll be doing more business with him in the future, since the other coin shop is a bit pricey.

[ARealConservative]

What are you talking about? Coins verses bullion? Am I an idiot?

apparently

[eric_cartman]

My point to all you gold bugs is this. Whatever gold you buy today, and try to sell today, you will lose your ass.

you will not lose your ass... you'll lose maybe 1% or 2%. but everyone knows that. no one is buying gold in order to sell it a week from now. when you buy physical gold, you buy it to hold for the long run. if you're trying to trade gold, where you're buying and selling on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis, than using GLD is obviously the better way to go... but if you're holding onto the gold for years, physical gold is still a great investment.

but the same is true for stocks. if you buy a stock, and sell it right away, there are transaction costs associated with that as well. If you buy at the "ask" and sell at the "bid" plus pay a broker to make the trade for you, or you have to pay a fee to e-trade or whatever you use.... then you'll "lose your ass" according to you also.

the same could be said for buying a house. are you going to tell people not to ever buy a house because if you decided to buy a house and sell it that same day, you'll have to pay all sorts of mortgage broker fees?

now you're just grasping at straws.... you're clearly wrong... just admit it. i really hate people who can never admit when they are wrong when they clearly are. who are you trying to kid? everyone can see that you're wrong... but you refuse to admit it to yourself.

you wrote "Try and sell the physical gold you possess and see what you end up with." and as Bruno pointed out, it is easy to sell your physical gold... you can sell it in virtually any country in the world... and what you end up with, is cash at very close to the spot price (maybe a bit above or below spot depeding on the type of gold and how good a deal that particular coin store gives you). you were acting as if it was really hard to sell your gold, and that you'll get nowhere near the spot price... and that's just simply wrong... you get a very fair price when you sell your gold. and people know that there are small transaction costs associated with buying physical gold (like there are with buying most things when you buy and sell them).

so YumYum ... i would love to hear you say "i was wrong, you guys were right... sorry" ... but you're the type of person who will never say that, and i feel really sorry for people like you who are so delusional where you'll use the most perverse logic to try to reconcile the fact that what you said eariler was still correct when it was clearly wrong.

[eric_cartman]

Eric...why isn't gold $3,000-4,000 an ounce?

what? where did this come from? this has nothing to do with anything we were talking about. it's not $3000 - $4000 an ounce because there are people out there willing to sell gold for $1100 right now. maybe sometime in the future it will reach that price... but at the moment, some people are still willing to sell their gold for $1100.

[amy31416]

Isn't part of the point of investing in precious metals, not simply to make a profit, but to have an asset/investment where the value almost assuredly will never be zero?

I have a lot of stock in one particular company, and that can be worthless in a week. If I pulled out the cash value of the stock, purchased gold with it and gold went down in value next week, I have lost a certain percentage of it's value, but the value is certainly not zero, as the stock could potentially be.

I don't look at gold/silver as a way to make money, I look at it as a way to preserve wealth.

[eric_cartman]

^^^ exactly. and physical gold is one of the few assets you can own that is not the liability of someone else. when you own physical gold, you own the gold... you don't need to rely on someone else to pay you anything since you already have it in your physical possession. and it's small enough that you can physically take it with you wherever you go, and it will be accepted around the world.

the only scenario where gold goes to zero is the scenario like in the movie "the road"... where really only food, fuel, guns and ammo have value.

[Jordan]

http://www.futuresbuzz.com/gc.bmp

Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't think the best place to store wealth is in an asset that has gone from $120 to $840 to $250 to $1100 in 34 years.

I don't know, maybe I just look for a little less volatility in something that is supposed to "protect" my assets.

[tmosley]

http://www.futuresbuzz.com/gc.bmp

Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't think the best place to store wealth is in an asset that has gone from $120 to $840 to $250 to $1100 in 34 years.

I don't know, maybe I just look for a little less volatility in something that is supposed to "protect" my assets.

You'd rather just have lost 85% of your purchasing power? :rolleyes:

As for YumYum, seriously, go crawl back under your rock. You are nothing but a troll.

If you think I'm wrong, my offer still stands. I will buy one AGE from you on November 10th, 2010 for $1182.70. If gold is going to plunge, then you will win. If it goes up, I win. It's very simple, but you remain too much of a coward to take it. The price currently stands (with shipping, as the above price) at $1187.40, meaning I'm up about $4.70.

Also, what kind of a moron doesn't understand spreads in transactions? Ever exchange currency? You buy foreign currency at one rate and sell it back at another. I guess banks must be pimping foreign currency, and all foreign currencies are going to crash (and the dollar is going to crash, and everything else in the universe that is traded at a spread is going to crash).

But seriously, put up or shut up.

[eric_cartman]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't think the best place to store wealth is in an asset that has gone from $120 to $840 to $250 to $1100 in 34 years.

I don't know, maybe I just look for a little less volatility in something that is supposed to "protect" my assets.

well... gold was at $20 an ounce for a very long time... then it went to $35 during the great depression. And it remained at $35 an ounce until 1971.

and during this time, the world was on a gold standard, so gold didn't really go up from $20 to $35, gold stayed the same... it was the US dollar that was devalued.

Then gold went on the bull run of the 1970s from $35 to $850. But when it was going over $500, these were just bubble prices... so obviously if you buy gold when it was at bubble levels, it's not a great investment.

But during the 1980s and 1990s, it was mostly range bound between $250 - $500... obviously when it got down to $250, it was very cheap and undervalued. So yes it's volatile, but not hugely so. And then since the year 2000, it's been pretty much stright up. Sure, there is quite a bit of volatility in there, but it has always done pretty well in protecting your purchasing power.

also, no one ever said that gold is always a good investment. if you buy it when it's expensive, you're going to lose money. but i don't think it's expensive right now... i still think it's a good deal.

and you could argue that the price of gold never really changes... it's just the value of the currency that you are pricing gold in that changes. so it's up to you whether you want to save your money in paper currencies, gold, or any number of other investments. i personally choose gold and silver and i've done well by that so far.

[TCE]

^^^ exactly. and physical gold is one of the few assets you can own that is not the liability of someone else. when you own physical gold, you own the gold... you don't need to rely on someone else to pay you anything since you already have it in your physical possession. and it's small enough that you can physically take it with you wherever you go, and it will be accepted around the world.

the only scenario where gold goes to zero is the scenario like in the movie "the road"... where really only food, fuel, guns and ammo have value.

People will always want gold and that is even more true with silver, since it is needed to produce things and miners don't want to mine when they're being paid in hyperinflated currency. Here is a perfect example of why gold will always have some value:

A SHTF scenario has just happened and a month has passed. A family (blue below) is walking by and has no food, water, or weapons to get the latter two items. They do, however, have some U.S. dollars and gold coins. They see tmosley on the street and ask him for food. tmosley (red below), being prepared, has everything needed to live sustainably for months.

"We're starving and need food and water, we'll give you all the money you want for those things."
tmosley knows that their money is now worthless and he can use the food and water to keep himself alive, so he refuses.
"We have these, too, they're 1 oz gold coins, can we have food for these?"
"Sure, I'll take the gold and here is some food and water."

The gold had value, and the FRN's were worthless.

[Bruno]

What are you talking about? Coins verses bullion? Am I an idiot? Please help me! If I walk into a coin shop with a gold coin minted in 1933 I am going to receive more than the value of the spot price of gold. Aren't we talking about gold bullion? I didn't know that all the gold bugs here are coin collectors. Bruno...are you a coin collector?

"Let's cut through the crap" : You have no idea what you are talking about, and have ignored my questions, such as:

Have you sold yours?
Who did you talk to at my local coin shop you said you called, and what did they say?
Have you ever been in a coin shop?

At least respect my questions and answer them. I'll answer yours:

Why do you keep referring to gold coins minted in 1933? Those are numismatic coins with collector value, minted before the coins were confiscated by the federal government. You can't compare them to any other coins or bullion any more than you could compare a new table to an antique one. They are worth more than the spot price of gold because of their collector value, and are graded by the Mint State of the coin. Prices range from a few hundred over spot value to hundreds of thousands over spot value.

Gold coins can be any coin minted by any country, which does not have numismatic, or "collector" value. This would include a 2009 gold eagle, but not a 2009 MS-70 gold eagle which would be an uncirculated collectable, for example. So, when you are talking about "coins" you probably didn't realize that they are minted every year. The OP was talking about 2009 gold eagles. Did you miss the title of the thread and is that why you are bringing up 1933 because you have no idea how coins are minted, bought and sold?

Am I a coin collector? I have some coins of nominal value, but that has nothing to do with the discussion. You said, "sell your physical gold" and then tried to change that to "just bullion", then change it to 1933 coins for some reason. Generally, bullion is considered any coin or bar of non-numismatic value. Some carry a higher premium because they are more sought after than others, such as gold eagles. Others are closer to the spot price such as Krugerrands. Others are much closer to the spot price such as minted bars. I provided examples of prices of all of those.


My point to all you gold bugs is this. Whatever gold you buy today, and try to sell today, you will lose your ass.

Please provide the post of one person here who has advocated buying gold of any type and selling it the same day for a profit. That is idiotic. No one does this. You are grasping at straws and constantly changing the discussion when you have been proven wrong.

Do a little more research and visit a coin shop so you will have more an idea of what you are talking about next time. As mentioned above, why would anyone buy gold and turn around and sell it the next day? You remind me of the Etrade commercial where a guy buys a painting at an auction and stands up two seconds later and says, "I'd like to sell it now". As also mentioned above, even stocks and currency trading has a cost associated with it, and you would have to wait until the price rises enough to get your money back.

I've never given any advice to anyone to buy anything that they don't plan on holding onto for at least 3-5 years, which is a generally agreed-upon timeframe.

For now, a simple "you were right, Bruno, I was wrong" will do. Then visit a coin shop yourself, maybe also spend some times on coin forums, instead of relying on the little knowledge you have on the subject while trying to prove all the gold bugs wrong.

[eric_cartman]

People will always want gold and that is even more true with silver, since it is needed to produce things and miners don't want to mine when they're being paid in hyperinflated currency. Here is a perfect example of why gold will always have some value:

A SHTF scenario has just happened and a month has passed. A family (blue below) is walking by and has no food, water, or weapons to get the latter two items. They do, however, have some U.S. dollars and gold coins. They see tmosley on the street and ask him for food. tmosley (red below), being prepared, has everything needed to live sustainably for months.

"We're starving and need food and water, we'll give you all the money you want for those things."
tmosley knows that their money is now worthless and he can use the food and water to keep himself alive, so he refuses.
"We have these, too, they're 1 oz gold coins, can we have food for these?"
"Sure, I'll take the gold and here is some food and water."

The gold had value, and the FRN's were worthless.

watch the movie "the road" . it's a good movie... and that's the only scenario where gold and silver are worthless. so in the ultimate worst case scenario, seeds are more valuable than gold and silver. but as long as we avoid the worst case scenario, gold and silver will have value. and i think the scenario in "the road" is very extremely unlikely, but still technically possible. accumulating gold and silver in this environment will only be useful when society gets back on its feet

[eric_cartman]

Bruno: as i said in previous posts in this thread... YumYum is the type of person who cannot admit when he's made a mistake, no matter how obvious. so now he will just ignore your questions. that's why we see him grasping at straws in his last few posts. i've come across plenty of these people in real life, and i just feel sorry for them. they have a type of mental problem that makes it very difficult for them to have meaninful friendships or relationships. they walk around with an undeserved chip on their shoulder which makes them a very unappealing human being to be around. he's not going to give you a meaningful response, so just take comfort in the fact that you're a better person and thank god that you're not like him... because it would suck to go though life being like YumYum.

[TCE]

watch the movie "the road" . it's a good movie... and that's the only scenario where gold and silver are worthless. so in the ultimate worst case scenario, seeds are more valuable than gold and silver. but as long as we avoid the worst case scenario, gold and silver will have value. and i think the scenario in "the road" is very extremely unlikely, but still technically possible. accumulating gold and silver in this environment will only be useful when society gets back on its feet

I would give that scenario about a 0.00000001% chance of happening. Some of it sure, but not all of it. That movie/book really underrates the sun, though.

[eric_cartman]

I would give that scenario about a 0.00000001% chance of happening. Some of it sure, but not all of it.

agreed

[Bruno]

Bruno: as i said in previous posts in this thread... YumYum is the type of person who cannot admit when he's made a mistake, no matter how obvious. so now he will just ignore your questions. that's why we see him grasping at straws in his last few posts. i've come across plenty of these people in real life, and i just feel sorry for them. they have a type of mental problem that makes it very difficult for them to have meaninful friendships or relationships. they walk around with an undeserved chip on their shoulder which makes them a very unappealing human being to be around. he's not going to give you a meaningful response, so just take comfort in the fact that you're a better person and thank god that you're not like him... because it would suck to go though life being like YumYum.

Thanks, eric_cartman. :)

[YumYum]

Bruno: as i said in previous posts in this thread... YumYum is the type of person who cannot admit when he's made a mistake, no matter how obvious. so now he will just ignore your questions. that's why we see him grasping at straws in his last few posts. i've come across plenty of these people in real life, and i just feel sorry for them. they have a type of mental problem that makes it very difficult for them to have meaninful friendships or relationships. they walk around with an undeserved chip on their shoulder which makes them a very unappealing human being to be around. he's not going to give you a meaningful response, so just take comfort in the fact that you're a better person and thank god that you're not like him... because it would suck to go though life being like YumYum.

I have to laugh at this post. You don't know who I am and because I don't worship gold like you do, you have made a deep and thoughtful analysis of my character. I believe the majority of gold bugs are crazy. If anybody even suggests that gold is a risky investment during these unstable times you go nuts.

[Jordan]

well... gold was at $20 an ounce for a very long time... then it went to $35 during the great depression. And it remained at $35 an ounce until 1971.

and during this time, the world was on a gold standard, so gold didn't really go up from $20 to $35, gold stayed the same... it was the US dollar that was devalued.

Then gold went on the bull run of the 1970s from $35 to $850. But when it was going over $500, these were just bubble prices... so obviously if you buy gold when it was at bubble levels, it's not a great investment.

But during the 1980s and 1990s, it was mostly range bound between $250 - $500... obviously when it got down to $250, it was very cheap and undervalued. So yes it's volatile, but not hugely so. And then since the year 2000, it's been pretty much stright up. Sure, there is quite a bit of volatility in there, but it has always done pretty well in protecting your purchasing power.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average was $68 in 1900, and rose as high as $381 by 1929. Shit happened and it fell to a low of $40 in 1932.

It wasn't until 1950 until the Dow again crossed it's high of $381, but paid dividends the whole time. Despite being slammed for its volatility by goldbugs, it remains as, if not less volatile as gold.

We can sit here and rehash history from a chart, but I like the numbers. $100 invested in the Dow in 1913 would be worth nearly $15,000 and I'm not even including dividend reinvestments. $100 invested in gold in 1913, or even 1935, would be worth...oh about $5000. I'll be damned, they have about the same volatility profile too!



also, no one ever said that gold is always a good investment. if you buy it when it's expensive, you're going to lose money. but i don't think it's expensive right now... i still think it's a good deal.

and you could argue that the price of gold never really changes... it's just the value of the currency that you are pricing gold in that changes. so it's up to you whether you want to save your money in paper currencies, gold, or any number of other investments. i personally choose gold and silver and i've done well by that so far.

I'd love to hear you argue that the price of gold never changes. I don't know about you, but prices here aren't nearly 4 times higher than they were a decade ago. Nor were they 4 times cheaper in 2000 than they were in 1980. I see a discrepancy.


Then gold went on the bull run of the 1970s from $35 to $850. But when it was going over $500, these were just bubble prices... so obviously if you buy gold when it was at bubble levels, it's not a great investment.

I'll give you one thing, at least you're one of the few gold bugs to admit gold can bubble. Highfive!

[YumYum]

Thanks, eric_cartman. :)

I called your coin dealer. He sells you coins and if he buys them back, and providing the price of gold stays the same, he will pay you less than what you paid him for the coins. As he stated "I have to make a profit." That is all I said in the beginning. To test the demand for gold, try selling it. The gold bugs all say they have no problem selling it. Yes, but at what price? They say 1% to 2% less than what they paid. Well, that's fine. Buy gold and sell it at a 1% to 2% loss. I know that people don't buy gold and sell it the same day, but right now the supply is greater than the demand.

tmosley and a few others worship gold. That is all he talks about. I have never seen tmosley talk about Ron Paul or liberty and freedom: all he talks about is gold. I have never seen such an obsession with gold before. tmosley has turned the "Economics and Sound Money" Forum into the "tmosley's Buy Gold Forum".

I have no problem with gold. But when that is all people can talk about; all people can think about, and believe that gold is the savior of all of mankind's woes, then people who feel this way need serious help.

As other sensible people have stated on this forum, gold should be 10% -20% of one's portfolio; you don't put all your eggs in one basket.

I understand your concern. You have invested heavily in gold and if it tanks you stand to lose. On the other hand, if it creates a bubble you will win. Somehow I must have misunderstood your explanation. What I was getting at is that when gold was spiking there where advertisements everywhere from outfits wanting to buy people's gold jewelry. You don't see that anymore, all you see is advertisements of companies who want to sell you their gold. If you go back and read tmosley's posts regarding gold over the last two years, according to him, gold should be at $1,000,000 an ounce right now. So, I asked the question: why isn't gold currently at $3,000 to $4,000 with all the doom and gloom that has been predicted by the gold bugs?

[TCE]

The Dow Jones Industrial Average was $68 in 1900, and rose as high as $381 by 1929. Shit happened and it fell to a low of $40 in 1932.

It wasn't until 1950 until the Dow again crossed it's high of $381, but paid dividends the whole time. Despite being slammed for its volatility by goldbugs, it remains as, if not less volatile as gold.

We can sit here and rehash history from a chart, but I like the numbers. $100 invested in the Dow in 1913 would be worth nearly $15,000 and I'm not even including dividend reinvestments. $100 invested in gold in 1913, or even 1935, would be worth...oh about $5000. I'll be damned, they have about the same volatility profile too!



I'd love to hear you argue that the price of gold never changes. I don't know about you, but prices here aren't nearly 4 times higher than they were a decade ago. Nor were they 4 times cheaper in 2000 than they were in 1980. I see a discrepancy.



I'll give you one thing, at least you're one of the few gold bugs to admit gold can bubble. Highfive!

I won't defend EC, but I will comment on your Dow and Gold comments:

In the kind of SHTF scenario we're talking about, the Dow will be anything but a safe haven. While the dollar is worthless, companies will start delisting from the Dow and move elsewhere, likely overseas to those stock exchanges, making most American stocks not worth the paper they're printed on. If those companies decide not to honor their American Dow shares, there is nothing anyone will be able to do about it at that time.

As far as gold goes, as others have stated, most prominently tmosley, but I have as well, gold is not the best means for making money at this time. Instead, it is a safe haven that will always retain some value. Silver is a much better investment at this time, especially since it is so versatile and can be denominated in small amounts. However, if someone has millions of dollars, then gold is likely going to be a foregone conclusion for at least a part of that.

[TCE]

So, I asked the question: why isn't gold currently at $3,000 to $4,000 with all the doom and gloom that has been predicted by the gold bugs?

Because the Fed and other central bankers have convinced everyone that all is well and the U.S. isn't going to default or monetize its debt. However, if you look at the real CPI, prices have gone up due to inflation and they're going to continue to go up. Even if you look at the government's own data, which is flawed to make it look like there is virtually no inflation, there has been a sharp increase in consumer prices. With prices everywhere going up, how isn't gold along with everything else going to cost more?

[YumYum]

Because the Fed and other central bankers have convinced everyone that all is well and the U.S. isn't going to default or monetize its debt. However, if you look at the real CPI, prices have gone up due to inflation and they're going to continue to go up. Even if you look at the government's own data, which is flawed to make it look like there is virtually no inflation, there has been a sharp increase in consumer prices. With prices everywhere going up, how isn't gold along with everything else going to cost more?

According to Robert Prechter the real CPI has gone down. He explains in this video why deflation is coming.

YouTube - Robert R. Prechter: "Deflation is coming" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRncLJnloJc)

[Jordan]

I won't defend EC, but I will comment on your Dow and Gold comments:

In the kind of SHTF scenario we're talking about, the Dow will be anything but a safe haven. While the dollar is worthless, companies will start delisting from the Dow and move elsewhere, likely overseas to those stock exchanges, making most American stocks not worth the paper they're printed on. If those companies decide not to honor their American Dow shares, there is nothing anyone will be able to do about it at that time.

As far as gold goes, as othershave stated, most prominently tmosley, but I have as well, gold is not the best means for making money at this time. Instead, it is a safe haven that will always retain some value. Silver is a much better investment at this time, especially since it is so versatile and can be denominated in small amounts. However, if someone has millions of dollars, then gold is likely going to be a foregone conclusion for at least a part of that.

Ok.

[YumYum]

As far as gold goes, as others have stated, most prominently tmosley, but I have as well, gold is not the best means for making money at this time.

I agree. So, why are we even debating gold?

[Bruno]

I called your coin dealer. He sells you coins and if he buys them back, and providing the price of gold stays the same, he will pay you less than what you paid him for the coins. As he stated "I have to make a profit." That is all I said in the beginning. To test the demand for gold, try selling it. The gold bugs all say they have no problem selling it. Yes, but at what price? They say 1% to 2% less than what they paid. Well, that's fine. Buy gold and sell it at a 1% to 2% loss. I know that people don't buy gold and sell it the same day, but right now the supply is greater than the demand.

tmosley and a few others worship gold. That is all he talks about. I have never seen tmosley talk about Ron Paul or liberty and freedom: all he talks about is gold. I have never seen such an obsession with gold before. tmosley has turned the "Economics and Sound Money" Forum into the "tmosley's Buy Gold Forum".

I have no problem with gold. But when that is all people can talk about; all people can think about, and believe that gold is the savior of all of mankind's woes, then people who feel this way need serious help.

As other sensible people have stated on this forum, gold should be 10% -20% of one's portfolio; you don't put all your eggs in one basket.

I understand your concern. You have invested heavily in gold and if it tanks you stand to lose. On the other hand, if it creates a bubble you will win. Somehow I must have misunderstood your explanation. What I was getting at is that when gold was spiking there where advertisements everywhere from outfits wanting to buy people's gold jewelry. You don't see that anymore, all you see is advertisements of companies who want to sell you their gold. If you go back and read tmosley's posts regarding gold over the last two years, according to him, gold should be at $1,000,000 an ounce right now. So, I asked the question: why isn't gold currently at $3,000 to $4,000 with all the doom and gloom that has been predicted by the gold bugs?

Golden Fail

You reply to my post to eric to say thank you to him, instead of reply my post to you and resopnding to anything in it. Its sad, really, how you can't admit when you are wrong.

So you haven't been in a coin shop.

You never called the coin shop, and once again refuse to say the name of the person you spoke with.

I told you they in in business to make a profit, as are all businesses. I told you how they make their profit and broke it down for you like you were a kindergardner because you don't know what you are talking about. You continue to be a amazed that a business would try to make a profit and that you couldn't buy and sell a product for profit on the same day.

You refuse to answer any of my questions, in bold, asked more than three times.

And you continue to constantly change the subject and not admit you know nothing about buying or selling of gold.

You say: "I have no problem with gold. But when that is all people can talk about; all people can think about, and believe that gold is the savior of all of mankind's woes, then people who feel this way need serious help." Wtf are you talking about? Once again, you bring up stuff that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. When is that all I talk about? I have thousands of post, and only dozens related to gold or silver. You probably have more than I do. But here's an idea! - don't respond or reply to those threads then, silly! If you're not interested in a topic, then ignore it.

No one needs you to be their savior to swoop in and say, "don't buy gold, its gonna tank!' As mentioned before, no one should buy gold unless they are holding onto it for 3-5 years, and as part of a diversified portfolio.

You have no idea how much gold I have or don't have, and that point is moot. You are wrong and have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to gold.

I could go on and on, yumyum, but you are not even worth the time I have already invested in trying to get you to do a little education for yourself about gold, wishin you'd quit being a hater-know-it-all who knows nothing because he has never even opened a coin shop door, doesn't know a 1933 coin from a 2009, instead of your trying to bring up new unrelated points in which you think you might get a win. You're sad. I'm done with you.

[TCE]

I agree. So, why are we even debating gold?

Because the Economics forum has more drama than an episode of the Kardashians?

[tmosley]

I called your coin dealer. He sells you coins and if he buys them back, and providing the price of gold stays the same, he will pay you less than what you paid him for the coins. As he stated "I have to make a profit." That is all I said in the beginning. To test the demand for gold, try selling it. The gold bugs all say they have no problem selling it. Yes, but at what price? They say 1% to 2% less than what they paid. Well, that's fine. Buy gold and sell it at a 1% to 2% loss. I know that people don't buy gold and sell it the same day, but right now the supply is greater than the demand.

tmosley and a few others worship gold. That is all he talks about. I have never seen tmosley talk about Ron Paul or liberty and freedom: all he talks about is gold. I have never seen such an obsession with gold before. tmosley has turned the "Economics and Sound Money" Forum into the "tmosley's Buy Gold Forum".

I have no problem with gold. But when that is all people can talk about; all people can think about, and believe that gold is the savior of all of mankind's woes, then people who feel this way need serious help.

As other sensible people have stated on this forum, gold should be 10% -20% of one's portfolio; you don't put all your eggs in one basket.

I understand your concern. You have invested heavily in gold and if it tanks you stand to lose. On the other hand, if it creates a bubble you will win. Somehow I must have misunderstood your explanation. What I was getting at is that when gold was spiking there where advertisements everywhere from outfits wanting to buy people's gold jewelry. You don't see that anymore, all you see is advertisements of companies who want to sell you their gold. If you go back and read tmosley's posts regarding gold over the last two years, according to him, gold should be at $1,000,000 an ounce right now. So, I asked the question: why isn't gold currently at $3,000 to $4,000 with all the doom and gloom that has been predicted by the gold bugs?

I don't worship gold, I just find you to be an insufferable little troll of a coward. Your posts in this forum have revealed you to be the worst type of person imaginable.

You know DAMN WELL that gold is not the only thing I ever talk about, as we had a little spat where you insulted me for the very suggestion that one should consider investing in wheat due to historically low flour prices.

You lie about your credentials, claiming to have somehow written a thesis despite the fact that you came to THIS VERY FORUM two months before asking highly preliminary questions about the topic your thesis was supposedly on. You then came back claiming to have gotten an unprecedented score on your thesis. You have wished disaster on those buying gold. You have claimed that people have "lost their ass" at every opportunity, on even the smallest downturn, and in this very thread you continue to show your insufferable stupidity by failing to understand the concept of the spread, despite the dozens of posts laying it out in a perfectly clear manner.

You think a 1-2% spread is evidence of a lack of demand, but this is STUPID. Go to a foreign currency exchange and you will see the EXACT SAME SPREAD. Gold acts just like any other currency, except there isn't anyone printing more of it (with paper gold being easy to distinguish from physical gold, at least to anyone that isn't an insufferable simpleton).

Think I'm wrong? Think I'm full of bullshit? Prove it. I'll give you $1182.70 for a 1 oz American Gold Eagle delivered to my door on November 10th, 2010. Want to double down for the next year? I'll make the same bet with you for November 10th, 2011. You won't accept, because you are nothing but an unemployed college student who took an intro to economics class and wrote a term paper. You have no money, and no skin in the game. You are nothing but a callow man-child. You aren't competent to mow my lawn, much less give out macroeconomics advice.

[YumYum]

Fail

You reply to my post to eric to say thank you to him, instead of reply my post to you and resopnding to anything in it. Its sad, really, how you can't admit when you are wrong.

So you haven't been in a coin shop.
You never called the coin shop, and once again refuse to say the name of the person you spoke with.
I told you they in in business to make a profit, as are all businesses. I told you how they make their profit and broke it down for you like you were a kindergartner because you don't know what you are talking about. You continue to be a amazed that a business would try to make a profit and that you couldn't buy and sell a product for profit on the same day.
You refuse to answer any questions.
And you continue to constantly change the subject and not admit you know nothing about buying or selling of gold.
"I have not problem with gold, but when that is all people talk about, all they think about' - don't respond or reply to those threads then, silly. If you're not interested in a topic, then ignore it. No one needs you to be their savior to swoop in and say, "don't buy gold, its gonna tank!' As mentioned before, no one should buy gold unless they are holding onto it for 3-5 years, and as part of a diversified portfolio.


You have no idea how much gold I have or don't have, and that point is moot. You are wrong and have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to gold.

I could go on and on, yumyum, but you are not even worth the time I have already invested in trying to get you to do a little education for yourself about gold, wishin you'd quit being a hater-know-it-all who knows nothing because he has never even opened a coin shop door, doesn't know a 1933 coin from a 2009, instead of your trying to bring up new unrelated points in which you think you might get a win. You're sad. I'm done with you.

I did too call the coin shop, Bruno. You misunderstood my initial comment, and that is you can test the demand for gold by selling it. I didn't say "thank you" to Eric. I was responding to you. I used the 1933 coin to make a point that coins have more value than bullion. I have been to many coin shops. I gave up coin collecting when I was a kid. I owned a 1916 D mercury head dime. I'm not trying to win anything. But anytime someone doesn't agree with you and tmosley about gold, you go on the attack. Gold is like your Higher Power.

I don't know anything about gold? I know that people who bought it when it was $1220 an ounce are now sweating bullets.

You gold bugs are losing it because you know that gold is going to make a major correction.

[Bruno]

I don't worship gold, I just find you to be an insufferable little troll of a coward. Your posts in this forum have revealed you to be the worst type of person imaginable.

You know DAMN WELL that gold is not the only thing I ever talk about, as we had a little spat where you insulted me for the very suggestion that one should consider investing in wheat due to historically low flour prices.

You lie about your credentials, claiming to have somehow written a thesis despite the fact that you came to THIS VERY FORUM two months before asking highly preliminary questions about the topic your thesis was supposedly on. You then came back claiming to have gotten an unprecedented score on your thesis. You have wished disaster on those buying gold. You have claimed that people have "lost their ass" at every opportunity, on even the smallest downturn, and in this very thread you continue to show your insufferable stupidity by failing to understand the concept of the spread, despite the dozens of posts laying it out in a perfectly clear manner.

You think a 1-2% spread is evidence of a lack of demand, but this is STUPID. Go to a foreign currency exchange and you will see the EXACT SAME SPREAD. Gold acts just like any other currency, except there isn't anyone printing more of it (with paper gold being easy to distinguish from physical gold, at least to anyone that isn't an insufferable simpleton).

Think I'm wrong? Think I'm full of bullshit? Prove it. I'll give you $1182.70 for a 1 oz American Gold Eagle delivered to my door on November 10th, 2010. Want to double down for the next year? I'll make the same bet with you for November 10th, 2011. You won't accept, because you are nothing but an unemployed college student who took an intro to economics class and wrote a term paper. You have no money, and no skin in the game. You are nothing but a callow man-child. You aren't competent to mow my lawn, much less give out macroeconomics advice.

+ 1

He's now acheived status as the only member of my ignore list. I am feeling a sigh of relief. I won't have to see his words or his avatar. :)

[amy31416]

I love the RPF gold wars. :)

[tmosley]

I did too call the coin shop, Bruno. You misunderstood my initial comment, and that is you can test the demand for gold by selling it. I didn't say "thank you" to Eric. I was responding to you. I used the 1933 coin to make a point that coins have more value than bullion. I have been to many coin shops. I gave up coin collecting when I was a kid. I owned a 1916 D mercury head dime. I'm not trying to win anything. But anytime someone doesn't agree with you and tmosley about gold, you go on the attack. Gold is like your Higher Power.

I don't know anything about gold? I know that people who bought it when it was $1220 an ounce are now sweating bullets.

You gold bugs are losing it because you know that gold is going to make a major correction.

Have the people you claim to know (you're lying--AGAIN) PM me, I will happily hedge their gold purchase for them with the same offer I have made to you.

But they won't, because they don't exist. You're nothing but a liar.

[psi2941]

YumYum i think your overlooking at the historic trend of all fiat money.

[eric_cartman]

Here is how you test the gold market. All we talk about on this forum is about buying gold. Try and sell the physical gold you possess and see what you end up with. Has anybody here sold their gold recently?

this is the comment that we were debating. we weren't debating if gold was good investment or a bad investment... or if it would go up or down in price.... we were simply saying that if you buy gold, it's very easy to sell your gold and get a fair price for it. the comment i quoted here made it seem as if you thought it was very difficult to sell your gold and that you wouldn't get a good price for it.

you said "Try and sell the physical gold you possess and see what you end up with." well, it's easy to sell your gold... and you end up with very close to the spot price (maybe 1% or 2% below).

so after we proved to you that it's easy to sell gold and get close to spot price for it... instead of admitting you were wrong... you turned around and starting saying all sorts of crap about "losing your ass" if you bought gold and sold it the same day. can you not see how ridiculous this is?

if you called all sorts of coin stores and they said, "we'll give you $800 an ounce for your gold"... than you would be correct. or if you called a bunch of coin stores and they said "we're not buying any gold from the public at this time" than you would be correct. admit it... this was what you thought when you wrote that comment. but as we've proved, there are many coin stores that are willing to buy your gold at very close to spot price... and therefore, you are wrong.

everyone knows that when you buy gold from a coin store, you pay a small premium and that when you sell your gold, you will not be able to sell it back to them with the same premium attached. that's how coin stores make money. but no one is "losing their ass" when they try to sell their gold... just like people don't "lose their ass" when they trade currencies or trade stocks. they lose a little bit, but not enough that it is signifant enough to discourage them from making long term investments.

[SLSteven]

Bruno...you are talking about coins. Coins have a different value than bullion. My question to you and the other gold bugs is what do you get for your gold bullion? I can pay spot price for bullion at the gold mine in Helena, Montana. How much can you get for your bullion when you sell it? You will not get spot price. If gold were in such a great demand you would get spot price.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullion_coin


A bullion coin is a coin struck from precious metal and kept as a store of value or an investment, rather than used in day-to-day commerce. Bullion coins are usually available in gold and silver, with the exception of the Krugerrand and the Swiss Vreneli which are only available in gold. The American Eagle series is available in gold, silver and platinum, and the Canadian Maple Leaf series is available in gold, silver, platinum and also palladium.

[Bruno]

^ Its pointless.

nevermind

[legion]

According to Robert Prechter the real CPI has gone down. He explains in this video why deflation is coming.



Elliot Wave International?

Gold bugs are missing the whole picture.

You're posting videos from Elliot Wave International, that's just stupid.

And your argument in this thread doesn't make any sense. Just because stocks have a bid and ask price doesn't suggest anything about which way the stock is going. Now if the price spread drastically changes, that could suggest something about the market sentiment, but just because you can't buy and sell at the same price says nothing.