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View Full Version : #1 ISSUE AFTER KNOWING RON PAUL: The Departments




ronpaulfan
10-08-2007, 04:00 PM
Dr. Paul,

To help you win the Republican nomination, for the last month and a half, I’ve been showing as many people as possible short videos of you speaking at debates. After hearing you speak, the majority of the people realized your positions made the most sense, especially on foreign policy. These people would then do their own research and normally a true Ron Paul supporter was born; however, people have also frequently come back to tell me this:

“I agree with him on Iraq and Iran, but he wants to abolish the Department of Education, the CIA, the FBI and the IRS! I can’t vote for him!”

After they tell me this, I assure them you’ve frequently stated you would not abolish them overnight and that you would simply design policy to phase them out of existence. Sometimes they’re convinced, but usually they’re worried on your first day as President you will issue executive orders to instantly dismantle those government departments! To ease their minds, I’m begging you Dr. Paul, absolutely begging you to consider making the following tactical changes whenever someone brings up dismantling government departments:

Please say over-and-over again that you will not remove them entirely overnight and that you will not create mass chaos when doing it. You've said it before but please repeat it more often! This scares people the most!
Emphasize how we will still have major functions of the CIA and FBI but with increased congressional oversight, etc (many people think removing the CIA and FBI means we won’t have any intelligence agencies whatsoever)

We know the problems with these federal departments but the majority of people are too conditioned to handle the idea of their sudden removal. From what I have seen, this is the #1 issue preventing reasonable people that know of you from joining the Ron Paul Revolution. On a final note, I want to thank you immensely for bringing hope for this country back into our lives.

Sincerely,

Mike

ronpaulfan
10-08-2007, 04:12 PM
Please vote in the poll and post any opinions here. I shortened the letter for clarity but here are two other points I had:


Please Say over-and-over again exactly how you will dismantle the departments and the timeframe for the process. For instance, please repeat over-and-over again that you would start by reducing their scope and authority and not by simply pulling the plug.
Also, please remind everyone that over-funding public schools is creating a market failure! Proof of this failure is that the average public school teacher makes more than the average private school teacher!

IowaSupport
10-08-2007, 04:15 PM
Voted yes - he really does need to do this.

Ron Paul Fan
10-08-2007, 04:17 PM
I voted no. Dr. Paul shouldn't change who he is and what he wants to accomplish because some guy named Mike tells him to. I think he should keep saying what he believes in and what he wants to say. If he wants to emphasize that he would phase out these agencies and departments, I will support him. If he doesn't, I will support him. Dr. Paul isn't an idiot. He's a 20 year politician and knows what he's doing. As he gets bigger in populairty, maybe he will start saying that he would phase these things out over time. Maybe he will realize that people in general are stupid and when he says abolish the IRS they think, "OMG how will we pay for roads and schools? America as we know it will be doomed!" And they think similar things for the other things Dr. Paul wants to get rid of. Be patient my friend. If Dr. Paul thinks he's making the wrong diagnosis, he'll change the treatment.

shadowhooch
10-08-2007, 04:23 PM
I think he talks about the transition period when he has the time. I've seen him talk about it a few times - about Social Security, transfer of power to States, even about how quick we can realistically have troop withdrawal.

In the debates, it's hard to fit it in your 30 second answer so there is nary a chance. But I see your point.

That is why I didn't like his Hope for America Slim Jim where it stated he would "End the IRS". People automatically categorize that as radical. I didn't give many of those out.

But his NEW slim jim is absolutely PERFECT. I just ordered some and can't wait to get those out.

Corydoras
10-08-2007, 04:24 PM
here are two other points I had

I liked what you did with the letter!

However, I don't think it needs the other two points. I think they dilute the message.

JMHO
:)

Nash
10-08-2007, 04:32 PM
As I mentioned in another thread I expect his rhetoric to scramble hard to the left as he gains more momentum.

He's been in office for over 20 years and he's run countless congressional campaigns.

He knows exactly what he's doing and he knows a heck of a lot more about running for office than we do.

Just trust him.

dude58677
10-08-2007, 04:34 PM
You don't have to tell them that they will slowly be phased out, tell them it will be eliminated immediately and why it is a good idea.

UtahApocalypse
10-08-2007, 04:42 PM
I voted NO simply because none of us should be bogging down the campaign with our ideas of what they should do. YOU can tell the people the position on the departments when you discuss RP. I just think everyone needs to quit thinking of what the campaign should and shouldn't be doing and focus on what we can do for the campaign.

Ron Paul Fan
10-08-2007, 05:16 PM
Bump. Keep those no votes coming people! Let Dr. Paul run his Presidential campaign! Wooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!! For Liberty!!!!!!!

Pete
10-08-2007, 05:28 PM
My vote was "no", because I've noticed that Dr. Paul likes to shock a little. It's his style and I wouldn't mess with that.

In a radio interview I heard Dr. Paul say that he has transition plans for all these things, but the interviewer didn't explore that statement. As shadowhooch said, he has been a little more specific on a few occasions.

Whenever I read Dr. Paul's speeches, legislation, etc., I am always struck by his depth of thought. He has no trouble with organization or details, either. Consider that Ron Paul made his first Presidential bid 20 years ago, and is a prolific thinker and writer. I'll bet he has enough plans to make Hillary's head spin.

ronpaulitician
10-08-2007, 05:31 PM
Instead of Paul telling us what he will not do, I'd like him to say what he will do, particularly the actions President Paul would take on his first day in office.

Here's what the late Harry Browne would have done on his first day in office. (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=13247)

I'd like to see Paul write a similar letter.

Perhaps he could then write a similar letter about the actions he would take in his first term in office, where he lays out the broader plans for reducing the size of government.

ronpaulfan
10-08-2007, 06:45 PM
You don't have to tell them that they will slowly be phased out, tell them it will be eliminated immediately and why it is a good idea.
Ron Paul himself has said it can't be done overnight but he doesn't say that very often. Most of his responses give people the impression he's going to shutdown these departments the first day of his presidency.

ronpaulfan
10-08-2007, 08:26 PM
As I mentioned in another thread I expect his rhetoric to scramble hard to the left as he gains more momentum.

He's been in office for over 20 years and he's run countless congressional campaigns.

He knows exactly what he's doing and he knows a heck of a lot more about running for office than we do.

Just trust him.

I do trust him! But that doesn't mean we should refrain from giving our opinions and input. For example, that "Only Ron Paul can beat Hillary" slogan came from supporters and it is resonating. From what I've seen so far, Ron Paul's frank stance on getting rid of the Department of Education puts off a lot of parents that would otherwise be avid supporters. I'm not saying Ron Paul should not abolish the Department of Education and other departments, I'm only giving a "heads up" that it really freaks a lot of people out when they hear it without more context.

Nash
10-08-2007, 08:51 PM
I do trust him! But that doesn't mean we should refrain from giving our opinions and input. For example, that "Only Ron Paul can beat Hillary" slogan came from supporters and it is resonating. From what I've seen so far, Ron Paul's frank stance on getting rid of the Department of Education puts off a lot of parents that would otherwise be avid supporters. I'm not saying Ron Paul should not abolish the Department of Education and other departments, I'm only giving a "heads up" that it really freaks a lot of people out when they hear it without more context.

I know that and so does he. The abolish this and abolish that rhetoric is purposeful to rally the base. We listen to this stuff and when we hear it we donate hundreds of dollars and go scream at rallies and put up signs.

If he doesn't say stuff like this he doesn't rally the base and he doesn't get noticed by the media.

He's been noticed. Now comes phase 2. Maybe a bit more subdued on that stuff, maybe a bit more muted in the rhetoric, while still staying on message.

Just saying I think he's way ahead of us. I'm not inside the guys head but that's my theory.

RP4ME
10-08-2007, 08:56 PM
Yes I agree. He is not deviating form who he is - he is just clarifying what his views really are.....he's peeling back layers of teh onion...and he needs to paint a picture in the minds of his future voters as to what his Presidency will look like.

This is salesmanship 101 and its for the buyers good dont ya think? We would all be better off with his presidency and his ideas are radical in the sense that they are such a diffrent tactic but when he xplains them or people take the time to do teh research he MAKES so much sense. But we have to spoon feed as much as possible!!!!!
I say I agree!

Akus
10-08-2007, 09:46 PM
Bump. Keep those no votes coming people! Let Dr. Paul run his Presidential campaign! Wooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!! For Liberty!!!!!!!
http://uploader.ws/upload/200710/untitled_44.jpg:rolleyes:

erowe1
10-09-2007, 05:02 AM
Voted no.

One of Ron Paul's greatest strengths is that he doesn't pander. Instead, he teaches. Every time I listen to his speeches I learn something new. People need to approach Ron Paul with teachable spirits or he won't get their vote. That's all there is to it, and trying to "fix" him in this respect would make him worse, not better. He's gotten this far doing what he does. He knows how to communicate his message better than most of the voters on this poll do.

Besides, the goal right now is to get the GOP nomination. We have to stay on our small-government message for that goal. The bleeding hearts who don't want to abolish the Dept. of Education aren't the ones we want. Probably half of the people who vote in GOP primaries think that's a great idea and have been waiting since 1988 for a candidate who would advocate doing it. Ron Paul is their man.
On the FBI, Paul's been ambivalent about abolishing it. I'd be careful about telling people that that's in his platform because I'm not certain that it is.

Once he gets the Republican nomination, then he can worry about how to sway all the bleeding hearts his way.

jointhefightforfreedom
10-09-2007, 05:12 AM
I think Dr Paul is running a very cunning campaign! As his voter/support base grows he has saved his $$ and increased his donations when the perfect time to strike arises He will with Sergical Precision! And it will be the biggest underdog story in US history! I am so glad i found out about Ron Paul and i can once again hold my head high and be Proud to be an American

Chrispy
10-09-2007, 06:25 AM
Look bottom line is that eliminating the CIA and FBI is something that Paul could do quickly (if congress lets him) here is my reasoning.

CIA - Is used almost entirely to INTERVENE in foreign affairs... thats what they do. Less intel more shady interventionist trickery.

FBI - Is used almost entirely to impose the federal laws that Ron Paul so frequently says are unconstitutional.

Both of these organizations run almost entirely counter to libertarian positions

You still have intelligence though through the DIA, NSA, and so on.

erowe1
10-09-2007, 06:30 AM
After 9/11 it was determined that intelligence was not used effectively because it was spread piecemeal through too many different agencies. The big government solution: add another agency (DHS). Trimming them down to just the FBI and the DIA with all the necessary roles delegated to those two seems much more amenable to conservatism no matter how hawkish you are.

Nefertiti
10-09-2007, 06:34 AM
I don't think your suggestions are any better than his. He doesn't need to talk about getting rid of the Department of Education at all. Yes, people can dig to find that somewhere but what he really needs to say is that he will turn over responsibility of education to the local level where parents and communities will have more of a say. He doesn't need to indicate that involves getting rid of the Department of Education or how he will dismantle the department, he just needs to tell people what the end result will be for them. Think soundbites. Think things that will appeal to people who will know nothing more about him than those soundbites.

Chrispy
10-09-2007, 06:35 AM
I don't think your suggestions are any better than his. He doesn't need to talk about getting rid of the Department of Education at all. Yes, people can dig to find that somewhere but what he really needs to say is that he will turn over responsibility of education to the local level where parents and communities will have more of a say. He doesn't need to indicate that involves getting rid of the Department of Education or how he will dismantle the department, he just needs to tell people what the end result will be for them. Think soundbites. Think things that will appeal to people who will know nothing more about him than those soundbites.


Well said

Nefertiti
10-09-2007, 07:18 AM
I should have added responsibility will also be handed over to teachers. I know a teacher here supporting Ron Paul whose time is taken up with federal paperwork. Just a, "I will return responsibility for the education of America's children to parents, communities and teachers" would do it.

LibertyEagle
10-09-2007, 08:16 AM
I think all that is being suggested is that Dr. Paul should explain his position a little more with regard to dismantling the departments. Frankly, I agree with that.

He may not even realize that people are not understanding his rationale.

mconder
10-09-2007, 08:21 AM
I accidentally voted yes...I meant no. Yes should be one less.

ronpaulfan
10-09-2007, 09:11 AM
I accidentally voted yes...I meant no. Yes should be one less.
No way! If you accidentally vote for Gouliani in the primaries, it still counts for Gouliani :p

erowe1
10-09-2007, 10:15 AM
what he really needs to say is that he will turn over responsibility of education to the local level where parents and communities will have more of a say.

My problem with this rhetoric is that, constitutionally, the federal government can't turn responsibility for anything over to the local level. On the contrary, the federal government only has whatever responsibilities the states, via the constitution, first turn over to it.

Thus, he should say that he doesn't believe that the states and localities have ever turned their responsibility over education laws to the federal government, and he's certainly not going to steal that authority from them without them first expressing their consent via a constitutional amendment. He could then point out that previous administrations' usurping of precisely that state authority has been the cause of parents and communities having less say over their children's educations.