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View Full Version : Does a University have the right to make me give up my rights?




Warrior_of_Freedom
03-12-2010, 02:00 PM
Do they the legal right to require somebody requesting religious exemption from vaccinations and testing to give up important rights (not holding the University or State responsible for anything that is connected with my decision not to get vaccinated)?

They are trying to use coercion for me to get my grades, they put a hold on my account, and I'm going to request religious exemption, but not sure if I should sign this form with my religious statement or be bold and just give the statement and not sign this silly form.



I, certify that I ____________ have been provided with written information by (My University) explaining the risks associated with the measles, mumps, rubella, and hepatitis B disease, the availability and effectiveness of vaccination against the disease and that I have reviewed this information. Notwithstanding the information provided, for religious or medical reasons, I choose not to be vaccinated against the measles, mumps, rubella, and hepatitis B diseases.

I acknowledge that I am making the decision not to be vaccinated with the full realization that there may be a significant risk of bodily injury, including death, if I contract the disease.

I hereby assume all risks associated with my decision not to be vaccinated, and voluntarily agree to release and hold harmless (University Name) and the State of New Jersey, their trustees, officers, agents, and employees, from any and all liability, actions, causes of action, negligence, debts, claims, or demands of any kind and nature whatsoever including, but not limited to, claims for negligence, recklessness or any other form of action for which a release may be legally given (including attorneys' fees and costs) which may arise from or be in connection with my decision not to be vaccinated.

I agree further to hold harmless and indemnify (My University) and the State of New Jersey, their trustees, officers, agents, and employees, from and against and and all liability, actions, causes of action, negligence, debts, claims, or demands of any kind and nature whatsoever (including attorneys' fees and costs) made by any person or entities, including myself, which may arise from or be in connection with my decision not to be vaccinated.

I hereby certify that I voluntarily sign this waiver and release, and intend to be legally bound by the terms of this document. I have carefully read all of its provisions and fully understand its significance. I am aware that important rights are being released and given up.

I am aware that if an outbreak occurs with a disease that I have not shown compliance and that is applicable to my student status, that (My University) will not permit me to attend classes -- including off-campus courses -- or access its other campuses, for the duration of the outbreak.

dannno
03-12-2010, 02:08 PM
Sign the form :confused:

I think it just says you agree not to sue them if you get sick... and they can keep you from coming to class if you contract one of the said diseases.

slothman
03-12-2010, 02:14 PM
I presume this is a state uni.
For some of the disease they are transmittable just by being near a person, I believe mumps is like that.
That means that even if you don't get it for yourself it may affect another person.
Religious reasons would seem reasonable but the courts would likely disagree.

erowe1
03-12-2010, 02:19 PM
Since attending this university is not your right, it cannot be a violation of your rights for them to make attendance contingent on your having vaccinations, with or without religious objections to them.

That said, I agree with Danno, I don't see anything in that form that you should object to.

Warrior_of_Freedom
03-12-2010, 02:21 PM
Since attending this university is not your right, it cannot be a violation of your rights for them to make attendance contingent on your having vaccinations, with or without religious objections to them.

That said, I agree with Danno, I don't see anything in that form that you should object to.





"I hereby certify that I voluntarily sign this waiver and release, and intend to be legally bound by the terms of this document. I have carefully read all of its provisions and fully understand its significance. I am aware that important rights are being released and given up."

that's the part that does it for me, what important rights are being given up exactly? i really just want to write my own statement saying I won't sue new jersey if I get measles :P

dannno
03-12-2010, 02:24 PM
"I hereby certify that I voluntarily sign this waiver and release, and intend to be legally bound by the terms of this document. I have carefully read all of its provisions and fully understand its significance. I am aware that important rights are being released and given up."

that's the part that does it for me, what important rights are being given up exactly? i really just want to write my own statement saying I won't sue new jersey if I get measles :P

I think it just means that your right to sue them is being given up, and your right to attend class may be limited if you contract one of those conditions... though if someone was vaccinated and ended up getting one of those conditions anyway, I wonder if they would be allowed to attend class :confused:

Krugerrand
03-12-2010, 02:28 PM
Sign the form :confused:

I think it just says you agree not to sue them if you get sick... and they can keep you from coming to class if you contract one of the said diseases.

They can keep you from coming to class if you are not sick and there is an outbreak:

if an outbreak occurs with a disease that I have not shown compliance and that is applicable to my student status, that (My University) will not permit me to attend classes

LibertarianfromGermany
03-12-2010, 02:29 PM
I think it just means that your right to sue them is being given up, and your right to attend class may be limited if you contract one of those conditions... though if someone was vaccinated and ended up getting one of those conditions anyway, I wonder if they would be allowed to attend class :confused:

Yes, pretty much you give up the right to sue the university and the right to hold them responsible. You should actually sign that on principle, because having the ability to sue a university because you don't want to vaccinate yourself is pretty stupid and should be gotten rid of asap.

Warrior_of_Freedom
03-12-2010, 02:30 PM
I still don't understand the whole form though, since when did anyone sue over contracting a disease. If someone gave me swine flu by giving me a handshake could I sue them? I don't get it. I don't care about not attending classes, I don't want to be there if there's people sneezing mumps all over the place :D

btw I already have the vaccines, but they tell me I need the shots two more times, once more because of new legislation, and another time because I didn't get my vaccines on or after my first birthday

LibForestPaul
03-12-2010, 02:40 PM
I still don't understand the whole form though, since when did anyone sue over contracting a disease. If someone gave me swine flu by giving me a handshake could I sue them?

Do you really want the answer?

"I am an idiot. I did not know I could [die, go blind, deaf, lose life, limb]. Why didn't [insert agency] tell me of the consequences of my decision? I am too stupid to do my own research."

The above has never been uttered by some sheople.

LibForestPaul
03-12-2010, 02:44 PM
P.S.
If this were a private institution, could they require employees to be vaccinated?
i.e. I do not want my employees using up sick days and medical insurance, if you want to work here, you must be vaccinated?
flu = millions of dollars in sick days?

qh4dotcom
03-12-2010, 06:57 PM
Three problems with universities

1) They teach Keynesian crap
2) There's a college bubble waiting to pop
3) No guarantee of getting a job after you graduate

Nanerbeet
03-12-2010, 10:05 PM
Do they the legal right to require somebody requesting religious exemption from vaccinations and testing to give up important rights (not holding the University or State responsible for anything that is connected with my decision not to get vaccinated)?

They are trying to use coercion for me to get my grades, they put a hold on my account, and I'm going to request religious exemption, but not sure if I should sign this form with my religious statement or be bold and just give the statement and not sign this silly form.



IF YOU DON'T SIGN THE FORM, what can they do? They just want it in writing that you knew of the dangers and that you will not be permitted to attend class if you become a liability.

They're not trying to protect themselves from being sued if you get sick, they're trying to protect themselves from being sued if they kick you off the premisis during an outbreak.


Thats how I read it.

Anti Federalist
03-12-2010, 10:32 PM
I was never able to understand the paranoia of the vaccinated.

Why do you care if I'm not vaccinated, you are, right?

Therefore you should be protected and immune, regardless of what condition I am in.

***Cough cough***

Right?

Live_Free_Or_Die
03-12-2010, 11:25 PM
nt

Warrior_of_Freedom
03-12-2010, 11:48 PM
Is that a legitimate question or someone complaining they want to force other people how to use their property.

Please post any contracts you have signed with the college.

i haven't signed any at all and it's a government subsidized school, idk if that means the government actually 'owns' the school or what.

Live_Free_Or_Die
03-12-2010, 11:50 PM
nt

Warrior_of_Freedom
03-12-2010, 11:51 PM
there were no admission forms or anything similar?

ya but I don't recall ever having to sign anything, just print my name

RideTheDirt
03-13-2010, 01:09 AM
I am aware that if an outbreak occurs with a disease that I have not shown compliance and that is applicable to my student status, that (My University) will not permit me to attend classes -- including off-campus courses -- or access its other campuses, for the duration of the outbreak.
Everything was OK till I read this. The rest just says if you get sick you can't sue the, which who would do that??
outbreak | a sudden violent spontaneous occurrence (usually of some undesirable condition)

Live_Free_Or_Die
03-13-2010, 01:38 AM
nt

dannno
03-13-2010, 01:42 AM
btw I already have the vaccines, but they tell me I need the shots two more times, once more because of new legislation, and another time because I didn't get my vaccines on or after my first birthday

Sounds like some weird overdraft fee structure....

Bucjason
03-13-2010, 12:39 PM
Yes, because no one is forcing you to attend that University.

If you don't like thier rules , then go to another school .

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
03-13-2010, 01:55 PM
Do they the legal right to require somebody requesting religious exemption from vaccinations and testing to give up important rights (not holding the University or State responsible for anything that is connected with my decision not to get vaccinated)?

They are trying to use coercion for me to get my grades, they put a hold on my account, and I'm going to request religious exemption, but not sure if I should sign this form with my religious statement or be bold and just give the statement and not sign this silly form.

While your civil rights are not guaranteed, your natural rights are guaranteed by the natural law our nation was founded on, the self evident and unalienable Truth declared by our Founding Fathers in the Declaration of Independence, this being our formal divorce decree from tyranny. This act established for the people a new Formal-Culture and a Civil Purpose above all legal precedence, past traditions and future events yet to occur. While the people's Civil Purpose will never be substantiated by government, government itself will be judged by the Truth.

MelissaWV
03-13-2010, 02:39 PM
The worst they can do if he doesn't turn in the form is to continue to keep a hold on his account, grades, and keep him out of the university, depending on the school.

It's a hold harmless agreement. It's as dannno said.

You already aren't getting the vaccines, so not suing the school seems like a no-brainer (except that some people WOULD sue the school if this form weren't in place).

FYI... if something really malicious or awful does happen, you can very easily argue that it was not feasible to include it as a risk at the time you signed the form. This would be something along the lines of... someone injected you on purpose with a pathogen from the university lab. You'd still win a lawsuit on that one, even with this signature form in place. I don't like the language of the agreement in general, since it doesn't have a clause for malicious acts or extraordinary circumstance. It also doesn't reserve the right to a refund (if you can't complete your classes), a pro rata towards a future term, or taking your classes online if something along the lines of an outbreak occurs.

* * *

Having said all of this, it's a bit sad that someone going into college does not realize that an application form constitutes a contract (if you read it, most applications contain clauses about the veracity of statements made, etc.), and that acceptance of admission constitutes a further contract (the university can kick you out for a variety of stated reasons).

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
03-13-2010, 03:43 PM
The worst they can do if he doesn't turn in the form is to continue to keep a hold on his account, grades, and keep him out of the university, depending on the school.

It's a hold harmless agreement. It's as dannno said.

You already aren't getting the vaccines, so not suing the school seems like a no-brainer (except that some people WOULD sue the school if this form weren't in place).

FYI... if something really malicious or awful does happen, you can very easily argue that it was not feasible to include it as a risk at the time you signed the form. This would be something along the lines of... someone injected you on purpose with a pathogen from the university lab. You'd still win a lawsuit on that one, even with this signature form in place. I don't like the language of the agreement in general, since it doesn't have a clause for malicious acts or extraordinary circumstance. It also doesn't reserve the right to a refund (if you can't complete your classes), a pro rata towards a future term, or taking your classes online if something along the lines of an outbreak occurs.

* * *

Having said all of this, it's a bit sad that someone going into college does not realize that an application form constitutes a contract (if you read it, most applications contain clauses about the veracity of statements made, etc.), and that acceptance of admission constitutes a further contract (the university can kick you out for a variety of stated reasons).

While we the people possess the greatest power with it being quite limited, we have been deceived into believing that we have many powers. That designation goes to the government, the "more perfect union (necessary tyranny) established by our Founding Fathers to rule over us for the sake of our Civil Purpose. Paradoxically, because the people have allowed politicians to convince us that we are better than a proverbial "empty box of goods," we have become an empty box of goods.
Our power as the people is limited to a few things. So, we should be careful and reverent valuing what we do have. We do own all property and the purse (the economy). We also have the right to divorce tyranny in order to remarry into a more perfect union. We don't need much more power than this if any.

Icymudpuppy
03-13-2010, 03:54 PM
Three problems with universities

1) They teach Keynesian crap
2) There's a college bubble waiting to pop
3) No guarantee of getting a job after you graduate

It all depends on what you study. My college education has proven very valuable in my chosen career. Most of my competition is not college educated, and I am able to outcompete them because of mine. When circumstances that defy experience present themselves, I am able to provide my clients with the scientific basis for that situation in a way that simply confounds my unschooled competitors.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
03-13-2010, 04:54 PM
It all depends on what you study. My college education has proven very valuable in my chosen career. Most of my competition is not college educated, and I am able to outcompete them because of mine. When circumstances that defy experience present themselves, I am able to provide my clients with the scientific basis for that situation in a way that simply confounds my unschooled competitors.

But it isn't complicated enough to need a college education. Our Founding Fathers weren't about knowing, but about perceiving a natural law, the Truth, in the human conscience that a soul of a person knowing many things is created with the same business agenda for life as a soul of a person knowing very little. To use as a metaphor to substantiate this point, I've often juxtaposed the inverted soul of a trespassing prostitute with that of the soul of a sovereign king.

Icymudpuppy
03-13-2010, 05:27 PM
But it isn't complicated enough to need a college education..

It is now. Two of my competitors have already folded, I'm in negotiations with a third about buying his business. My largest competitor has had their gross sales halved in the 5 years since I joined the market, and the rest haven't succeeded in becoming more than one-man shows, while I have averaged adding one additional technician each year and now have a cast of 6.

Could I be this successful without the degree? Doubtfully. Many of the companies that refer business to me do so not just because of my professional reputation, but also because of my educational background. A college education helps to build trust among the small business community who perceive any degree as a sign of self determination, dedication, and knowledge of the most advanced methods of handling situations. It also helps among the corporate clients who look down on anyone without a college education.

haaaylee
03-13-2010, 06:39 PM
I was never able to understand the paranoia of the vaccinated.

Why do you care if I'm not vaccinated, you are, right?

Therefore you should be protected and immune, regardless of what condition I am in.

***Cough cough***

Right?


Because they are protecting us from those whose would be too stupid to get vaccinated, of course.


The basic answer to the thread title is this: No one, or institution, has the right to take away your rights unless you let them. If you feel this form does that, don't sign it. But if you do sign it and you lose any rights then, yes, they do have the right to take them. You signed a contract allowing that.

However, i agree this form doesn't seem to want to take your basic human rights.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
03-14-2010, 11:42 AM
It is now. Two of my competitors have already folded, I'm in negotiations with a third about buying his business. My largest competitor has had their gross sales halved in the 5 years since I joined the market, and the rest haven't succeeded in becoming more than one-man shows, while I have averaged adding one additional technician each year and now have a cast of 6.

Could I be this successful without the degree? Doubtfully. Many of the companies that refer business to me do so not just because of my professional reputation, but also because of my educational background. A college education helps to build trust among the small business community who perceive any degree as a sign of self determination, dedication, and knowledge of the most advanced methods of handling situations. It also helps among the corporate clients who look down on anyone without a college education.

But the American system of doing business hasn't worked in about 40 years while most of the people in charge of this failed system have officially deemed college degrees.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
03-14-2010, 11:54 AM
Because they are protecting us from those whose would be too stupid to get vaccinated, of course.


The basic answer to the thread title is this: No one, or institution, has the right to take away your rights unless you let them. If you feel this form does that, don't sign it. But if you do sign it and you lose any rights then, yes, they do have the right to take them. You signed a contract allowing that.

However, i agree this form doesn't seem to want to take your basic human rights.

Because legal precedence will never recognize the Civil Purpose of the people, our rights are only substantiated by the Truth. As a prostitute is either prosecuted or forgiven by the legal precedence of tyranny, so the legal precedence of tyranny will be prosecuted or forgiven by the Truth. The Truth is sufficient. How silly is it to envision an American economy based on anything other than the self evident and unalienable Truth? This isn't just our American "lightening in a bottle," so to speak, as the Truth will never perish and needs no defense.
A natural right cannot be taken away as it is based on the science of natural law. Therefore, a natural right literally reduces down like DnA. Being flesh and blood, people do have civil rights, but our Founding Fathers debated, because we already have natural rights, as to whether we really needed them.