Which do you hate more: Progressives or Neocons?

[Light]

Both are the biggest ideologies of the MSM. So which do you disdain more?

[purplechoe]

http://www.bloodforoil.org/neocon/neocon-hdr.gif

http://blikk.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/strauss-neocons.jpg

[hugolp]

Do I have to choose?

[BenIsForRon]

I hate those dudes on Jersey Shore. They're such self absorbed assholes.

[rp08orbust]

"Progressives" is too vague of a term. The progressives from the "Progressive Era" (1890 to 1920), as typified by Teddy Roosevelt, are indistinguishable from today's neocons.

But a contemporary progressive like Glenn Greenwald, on the other hand, has quite a bit in common with us on foreign policy and civil liberties. So I said I hate neocons more.

[ronpaulraps]

I Hate Neo Cons. I Don't Any Problems With Progressives

[purplechoe]

http://www.conservativetimes.org/Photos/NeoCons%20NeoConservatives.jpg

[Stary Hickory]

I Hate Neo Cons. I Don't Any Problems With Progressives

Really, no problems with progressives. See I knew these boards were not the place for the liberty movement.

[Krugerrand]

Today's progressive groups espouse the notion that people are too dumb to live their own lives and need to be controlled. Neocons just want to control your life for their own profit. I vote against arrogant and demeaning.

[FrankRep]

Same Coin!

[chudrockz]

Voted for neocons. At least the progressive types are fairly honest about their desire for a socialist wasteland at home and a police-the-world policy abroad.

Neocons salivate over millions of dead brown-skinned people but co-opt the language of freedom while still, in fact, BEING socialists.

[FrankRep]

I have more respect for my open enemies, the Progressive-Liberal-Socialists, than I do for the backstabbing traitors, the Neocons.

Both sides of the same coin though.

[The Deacon]

I like Kucinich/Greenwalt quite a bit (without totally agreeing with them), but not Obama/Clinton. It depends on which faction we're judging here.

[RM918]

They're all delusional, arrogant and smug. Maybe I'd lean toward disliking neocons more if only because I've been unfortunate to have more experience with them, and I guess hearing, 'What, you don't like AMERICA?!' is more annoying than the palpable smugness that comes off of progressives.

[The Deacon]

My least favorite public people are neocons, though. Especially David Frum, who singles out Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan as "unpatriotic conservatives", and then whines profusely about Ron Paulers attacking him. Plus, he dresses up his Rooseveltian/Keynesian economic "understanding" and pretends he's a Friedman acolyte.

[amy31416]

They both suck hard. Difficult choice, but the neocons are more deceptive, so I think I have to go with neocons.

[angelatc]

They both suck hard. Difficult choice, but the neocons are more deceptive, so I think I have to go with neocons.

Thats what I was going to say. Progressives are at least open about wanting government to control you.

[Elwar]

What's the difference?

[pcosmar]

Same Coin!

qft

Poll missing options,
Fabian Socialists
Collectivists

[sluggo]

nvm......

[catdd]

Not a fair question since they are about equal.

[AuH20]

Neocons are progressives. Close the thread.

[AuH20]

I Hate Neo Cons. I Don't Any Problems With Progressives

I hate to the play the role of an agitator, but are you ignorant of history? The 16th amendment, the Federal Reserve and the onerous New Deal were all carried out by progressive agents, namely Colonel Edward Mandell House and later Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Then you had an outright communist named Alger Hiss who paved the road for the charter of the United Nations.

[Cutlerzzz]

From my perspective, Neocons are just a slightly different kind of progressive. Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson, two historical progressive poster boys, are essentially neoconservatives.

Both sides support the Federal Reserve, fiat money, the 16th Amendment, an overseas empire, the welfare state, ect, ect, ect...

I have a hard time picking sides here.

[BuddyRey]

It's extremely hard to choose, because I've known progressives who are truly decent, open-minded people who respect the liberty philosophy even if they don't always agree with it.

And I've also known progressives who are shallow, childish, only concerned with how to further their own political party at the expense of principle, who make endless excuses for Barack Obama's warhawkery and abandonment of civil liberties issues, and who, mysteriously, seem to despise and ridicule libertarians even more than they claim to hate the neoconservatives.

[Elwar]

Why do socialists need to come up with a new term every 10 years?

[Krugerrand]

Why do socialists need to come up with a new term every 10 years?

The same reason snake oil salesmen are always on the move.

[Todd]

Neocons are progressives. Close the thread.

This

[catdd]

The same reason snake oil salesmen are always on the move.

right

[AuH20]

Furthermore, I'd say that one-third of all republicans are what you would consider to be authentic 'Neoconservatives.' Neoconservatism extends far beyond the foreign policy realm, even though the imperial model is the most notable characteristic of their platform. Many neoconservatives subscribe to a belief that the centralized planning is a necessity and Keynesian economic theory is infallible. They're progressive lite essentially, who worship at the altar of GDP, hence their cozy relationship with the social/corporate welfare state, which is more or less a microcosm of the irresponsible environment they promote.

[pcosmar]

From my perspective, Neocons are just a slightly different kind of progressive. Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson, two historical progressive poster boys, are essentially neoconservatives.

Both sides support the Federal Reserve, fiat money, the 16th Amendment, an overseas empire, the welfare state, ect, ect, ect...

I have a hard time picking sides here.

Interesting first post. Howdy. :)
There is a lot of educational material here.
Hang out some.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Neo-Cons most def. Seems like they are the worst of both worlds.

I dont mind Progressives, specifically social progressives.

[Ninja Homer]

I don't waste my time and energy hating groups of people. It doesn't help anything. I'd rather spend my time and energy loving the liberty movement.

I guess if I had to choose between buddying up with a progressive or a neocon, I'd rather it be a progressive, because a neocon is more likely to preemptively stab you in the back.

What's progressive about slowing down progress through government regulation anyway? A more suitable name would be regressives.

Progressives are just brainwashed. Neocons are brainwashed AND full of fear... little scared pussies that would nuke their own shadow if they could figure out how.

[ronpaulraps]

Neo Cons Is Out Right Disrespectful And Use All Type of Tactics To Push Forward With There Agenda. Progressives Don't Come Across The Same Way To Me. I Just Disagree With Their Policies. I Don't Have A Problem With A Person If I Disagree With 'Em. But Neo Cons Will Call You A Traitor If You Don't Support Their Policies

[jmdrake]

I hate to the play the role of an agitator, but are you ignorant of history? The 16th amendment, the Federal Reserve and the onerous New Deal were all carried out by progressive agents, namely Colonel Edward Mandell House and later Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Then you had an outright communist named Alger Hiss who paved the road for the charter of the United Nations.

You need to understand why some people came to Ron Paul. I woke up to the lie of the left / right paradigm when I realized that the democrats in congress were going right along with Bush's crap on the wars and the Patriot Act and how they were pushing the Homeland Security garbage as hard or maybe even harder than republicans. But I didn't fully understand the evils of big government until Katrina. Seeing how FEMA didn't just "fail" but actually got in the way and caused more harm then good, becoming a "single point of failure" made me rethink everything. But getting there was a process.

[Bucjason]

Progressives ....

In the end game , if both sides got everything they wanted , more of our liberties would be taken away by progressives .

Under the Neocons, we would just be wasting bazillions of dollars and lives on pointless wars and nation building.

I hate socialism more than I hate war-mongering....

[Slutter McGee]

Well that depends on what kind of neo-cons we are talking about. If we are talking about those who are called neo-cons here for not being completely against the war or any other number of often ridiculous reasons, then I dislike progressives more.

If we are talking about ACTUAL neo-cons, then I dislike them more.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[KAYA]

Progressives

[Pete_00]

Neocons are the trojan-horse of the "progressives".

I find it very very strange how most of the Neocons were hardcore commies in the 60´s and 70´s. I read somewhere (cant remember) that Richard Pearl was arrested for burning US flags and waving the Vietnamese Communist flag during a demonstration in front of the White House.

I also find it very very strange how all this leftwing "intellectuals" (Chomsky´s, Chossudovsky´s, Goodman´s, etc) still give us the "War for Oil" crap and always cover the true nature of the Neocons.

I voted Neocons because the trojan-horses are the most dangerous weapon.

[AuH20]

You need to understand why some people came to Ron Paul. I woke up to the lie of the left / right paradigm when I realized that the democrats in congress were going right along with Bush's crap on the wars and the Patriot Act and how they were pushing the Homeland Security garbage as hard or maybe even harder than republicans. But I didn't fully understand the evils of big government until Katrina. Seeing how FEMA didn't just "fail" but actually got in the way and caused more harm then good, becoming a "single point of failure" made me rethink everything. But getting there was a process.

Well, I'm glad you're here. ;)

[AuH20]

Neocons are the trojan-horse of the "progressives".

I find it very very strange how most of the Neocons were hardcore commies in the 60´s and 70´s. I read somewhere (cant remember) that Richard Pearl was arrested for burning US flags and waving the Vietnamese Communist flag during a demonstration in front of the White House.

I also find it very very strange how all this leftwing "intellectuals" (Chomsky´s, Chossudovsky´s, Goodman´s, etc) still give us the "War for Oil" crap and always cover the true nature of the Neocons.

I voted Neocons because the trojan-horses are the most dangerous weapon.


Pat Buchanan famously referred to Neconservatives as the 'cowbirds' of the conservative movement. Cowbirds are an aggressive type of bird that often invades the nests of other birds, and eventually taking them over as it's own.
Per wikipedia: ;):D


Cowbirds are birds belonging to the genus Molothrus in the family Icteridae. They are brood parasitic New World birds which are unrelated to the Old World cuckoos, one of which, the Common Cuckoo, is the best-known brood parasitic bird.


These birds feed on insects, including the large numbers that may be stirred up by cattle. In order for the birds to remain mobile and stay with the herd, they have adapted by laying their eggs in other birds' nests. The cowbird will watch for when its host lays eggs, and when the nest is left unattended, the female will come in and lay its own eggs. The female cowbird may continue to observe the nest after laying her eggs. If the cowbird egg is removed, the female cowbird may destroy the host's eggs[1].

The Brown-headed Cowbird has over 220 hosts[2]. The other cowbird species have less known hosts, but all the species are generalists when it comes to choosing a host. This means that the eggs may look different from the hosts' eggs. The cowbird chicks grow quickly, and may consume most of the food the host brings. Starvation will often kill the host's chicks. In some species the cowbird chick will use its large size to push the other chicks out of the nest.

[paulitics]

Neocons are the trojan-horse of the "progressives".

I find it very very strange how most of the Neocons were hardcore commies in the 60´s and 70´s. I read somewhere (cant remember) that Richard Pearl was arrested for burning US flags and waving the Vietnamese Communist flag during a demonstration in front of the White House.

I also find it very very strange how all this leftwing "intellectuals" (Chomsky´s, Chossudovsky´s, Goodman´s, etc) still give us the "War for Oil" crap and always cover the true nature of the Neocons.

I voted Neocons because the trojan-horses are the most dangerous weapon.

Progressivism is the foundation for neoconism. It is not surprising that these war hawks come from a progressive or communist background.

I don't trust any of these "intellectuals". If you read with a critical mind, they mix bullshit with truth. The truth is only their to reel you in, the bullshit is often the solution. The endgame is confusion, diversion, division. Very few intellectuals are true freedom lovers. I find it to be a remarkable "coincidence".

[Original_Intent]

I had to vote neocons.

A wolf and a wolf in sheeps clothing are equally dangerous. But I have more respect for a wolf that represents him or herself as a wolf.

If socialism is two wolves and a sheep voting on what is for lunch, then our current situation is a wolf, a wolf in sheep's clothing, and a bound and gagged sheep voting on what is for lunch.

[tremendoustie]

I don't hate neocons or progressives.

I hate neoconism and progressivism.

I think this is important. We need to show people that they're on our side, and that their ideology does not match their goals -- rather than creating enemies.

And I can't choose between them -- they're both violent and immoral.

[tremendoustie]

If socialism is two wolves and a sheep voting on what is for lunch, then our current situation is a wolf, a wolf in sheep's clothing, and a bound and gagged sheep voting on what is for lunch.

Lol, that's about right.