I'm shocked

[enjerth]

I was surfing around, looking for good Ron Paul resources and such when I came across this quote from Giuliani.

"Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do." (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A01E2D9173CF933A15750C0A9629582 60)

I was totally blown away when I read this. This guy is actually the top contender for the GOP nomination? Did I slip through some temporal crack into an alternate universe?

[Green Mountain Boy]

:eek: You've just crossed over into the Twilight Zone. Welcome.

[EvilTwinkie]

Yup, Paul woke me up to alot of stuff I would have never found out had I not decided to turn on the TV that night and watch the republican debates...

...and to think I was just going to watch for a laugh or two. Little did I know the scrawny looking even tempered grampa on the right would change my life.

[Corydoras]

Things are indeed much worse than they seem just walking down the street.
Glad you found out about this.
This country is sinking into a swamp of totalitarianism and we've got to keep it from going under.

[Bryan]

Yup, Paul woke me up to alot of stuff I would have never found out had I not decided to turn on the TV that night and watch the republican debates...

...and to think I was just going to watch for a laugh or two. Little did I know the scrawny looking even tempered grampa on the right would change my life.

That's an amazing story. I'd really like to hear more of the whole thing if you get a chance- just start a new thread. :)

[steph3n]

I am amazed anyone can vote for the rest of the candidates form either party after hearing what they say (my repulsion on the democratic side is due to rampant socialism among the more respectable candidates)

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Giuliani is very Mussolini-like

[Cindy]

Thats actually a popular quote of his that didn't seem to get any negative press. The people afraid of the terrorists are buying every last scrap of that crap.

I was horrified when I first heard him say that.

[rg123]

In it was either the May or June debate he said the US Military needs to be trained in nation building. Also Rudys foreign policy advisor is Norman Podhoretz a neocon from the 60's & 70's and extreme hard liner for going to war and nuking Iran. This guy is real BAD NEWS for America. Here's the wiki lots of stuff to research this guy on

[edit] Early life
The son of a Jewish immigrant from the Central European region of Galicia,[1] was born and raised in Brownsville, Brooklyn. Podhoretz's family was leftist, with his elder sister joining a socialist youth movement.

Podhoretz received bachelor's degrees from both Columbia University — where he studied under Lionel Trilling — and the Jewish Theological Seminary. He later received a BA with first-class honors and an MA from Cambridge University.


[edit] Career
Podhoretz served as Commentary magazine's editor-in-chief from 1960 (when he replaced Elliot E. Cohen) until his retirement in 1995. Podhoretz remains Commentary's editor-at-large. In 1963, he wrote the influential essay, “My Negro Problem - And Ours."

From 1981 to 1987, Podhoretz was an adviser to the U.S. Information Agency. From 1995 to 2003, he was a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. He is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. He was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by the 43rd President George W. Bush, the highest honor the U.S. president can bestow on a civilian in 2004, the same year as former CIA director George Tenet and the Commander of US Forces in Iraq General Tommy Franks.

Podhoretz is married to author Midge Decter, and is the stepfather of Rachel Decter (Elliott Abrams' wife) and father of syndicated columnist John Podhoretz.

Norman Podhoretz was one of the original signatories of the Statement of Principles of the Project for the New American Century.

Podhoretz received the Guardian of Zion Award from Bar-Ilan University on May 24, 2007.

He currently serves as a senior foreign policy advisor to Rudy Giuliani in his presidential campaign.


[edit] Political philosophy
Podhoretz asserts that the War on Terror is a war against "Islamofascism", and constitutes World War IV (World War III having been the Cold War), and advocates the bombing of Iran to pre-empt their acquisition of nuclear weapons.[2] His book on that subject, entitled World War IV: The Long Struggle Against Islamofascism, was published by Doubleday on 11 September 2007.

In an interview, Podhoretz considered the consequences of bombing Iran:

Q: What kind of international fallout can we expect from such a campaign?

PODHORETZ: Well, if we were to bomb the Iranians as I hope and pray we will, we’ll unleash a wave of anti-Americanism all over the world that will make the anti-Americanism we’ve experienced so far look like a lovefest. On the other hand — that’s a worst case scenario, and worst case scenarios don’t always materialize. It’s entirely possible that many countries, particularly in the Middle East — the Sunni countries like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, who are very worried about Iranian influence and power — would at least secretly applaud us. And I think it’s possible that other countries in Europe, for example, and elsewhere, would be relieved to see the Iranians entirely deprived of the capability to build nuclear weapons, or at least have that ability retarded for five or 10 years or more.[3]

In an editorial to the Wall Street Journal on the sixth anniversary of 9/11, Podhoretz contends that the retreat from Iraq should not be similar to the retreat from Vietnam. He argues that when the US withdrew from Vietnam, it sacrificed its national honor by a disgraceful show of weakness and cowardice

[inibo]

Yup, Paul woke me up to alot of stuff I would have never found out had I not decided to turn on the TV that night and watch the republican debates...

...and to think I was just going to watch for a laugh or two. Little did I know the scrawny looking even tempered grampa on the right would change my life.

History will look back at Ron Paul's performance in that debate as the pivotal moment in this campaign. I wish I had a dollar for ever person who has joined this forum saying that was when they discovered him.

The ironic thing is he said in an interview that at the time he felt very alone and after the response of the crowd to Giuliani's attack he entertained doubts about his future chances in the campaign.

[Rich333]

Giuliani is very Mussolini-like
That's really an extraordinary statement. That's really an extraordinary statement. I don't think I have ever heard that before and I would ask you to withdraw that comment and tell us that you didn't really mean that.

[Mattsa]

I was surfing around, looking for good Ron Paul resources and such when I came across this quote from Giuliani.

"Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do." (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A01E2D9173CF933A15750C0A9629582 60)

I was totally blown away when I read this. This guy is actually the top contender for the GOP nomination? Did I slip through some temporal crack into an alternate universe?

Yup

The voice of totalitarianism I'm afraid

It really is deeply worrying that this lunatic is the the front runner in the GOP

[noxagol]

History will look back at Ron Paul's performance in that debate as the pivotal moment in this campaign. I wish I had a dollar for ever person who has joined this forum saying that was when they discovered him.

The ironic thing is he said in an interview that at the time he felt very alone and after the response of the crowd to Giuliani's attack he entertained doubts about his future chances in the campaign.

Yeah, he thought he was finished at that point. Then about 20minutes after the interview with Hannity and Colmes he found out he was winning the text msg poll.

[Perry]

Things are indeed much worse than they seem just walking down the street.


Funny... that statement is so incredibly simplistic and at the same time so very true.

[DJ RP]

Yeah, he thought he was finished at that point. Then about 20minutes after the interview with Hannity and Colmes he found out he was winning the text msg poll.

Ron Paul is SUCH A HERO. Sometimes I swell up inside when I think about how much better a person he is than me... seriously. He's somebod you can really look up to in every way and strive to be more like.

[Bradley in DC]

Yeah, he thought he was finished at that point. Then about 20minutes after the interview with Hannity and Colmes he found out he was winning the text msg poll.

No, he didn't think he was finished. Dr. Paul has been fighting the good fight for a long time. He knows the difference between the gatekeepers and the people.

[angelatc]

I dpo not know that he thought he was finished, but he said he felt very alone. Then he saw the text message poll.

Ron Paul, you'll never walk alone as long as I'm alive.

[kylejack]

I was surfing around, looking for good Ron Paul resources and such when I came across this quote from Giuliani.

"Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do." (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A01E2D9173CF933A15750C0A9629582 60)

I was totally blown away when I read this. This guy is actually the top contender for the GOP nomination? Did I slip through some temporal crack into an alternate universe?

And the sentence right before that, "Freedom is about authority."

[angelatc]

CHeck out Giuliani's foreign policy advisor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGa9Ejs4_e4

[Wendi]

Doublethink is doubleplusgood. War is peace, hate is love. Big brother will take care of you.

[SeanEdwards]

Giuliani's quote was ham-handed, but there's certainly a grain of truth there. A lawful society does restrict the freedom of individuals. Seems there's a lot of anarchists in this thread, and anarchy as an actual system of governance is a hopelessly idealistic notion.

Paul is not an anarchist. He believes in following the rule of law, not unfettered freedom to do whateverthehell you want. The law exists to provide the greatest possible liberty to individuals, but that's not even close to total liberty. We do give up freedom in order to have a functioning community.

And if you disagree with me, then you have no basis to object when I exercise my freedom to park an M1 Abrams tank on your face.

Edit: I will add that Giuliani should recall his own rhetoric the next time he talks about ignoring the Constitution, since he clearly seems confused regarding how that lawful authority restricts the freedom of a President.