View Full Version : Ahmadinejad... the big lie?
phill4paul
03-06-2010, 08:04 PM
The big lie?
September 11 was a big lie and a pretext for the war on terror and a prelude to invading Afghanistan," Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying by state TV. He called the attacks a "complicated intelligence scenario and act."
The Iranian president has questioned the official U.S. version of the Sept. 11 attacks before, but this is the first time he ventured to label it a "big lie."
jsu718
03-06-2010, 08:12 PM
I have heard a lot of people equate Ahmadinejad to Chavez, and that neither are dictators and both are actually doing good things for their people... just so critical of the US that the media can't speak well of them.
RonPaulCult
03-06-2010, 08:18 PM
I have heard a lot of people equate Ahmadinejad to Chavez, and that neither are dictators and both are actually doing good things for their people... just so critical of the US that the media can't speak well of them.
Well people who think that don't know what the hell they are talking about.
phill4paul
03-06-2010, 08:19 PM
Let's examine....
First he discredited the holocaust. MSN screamed CRAAAAAAAAZY!
Then after the MSM excoriating hin as an anti-semetic w/ regards to the holocaust he issues statements regarding 9/11.
Guilt by association or staid script writing?
Does he work for them or is he a patriot?
The world may never know. How many licks?
tmosley
03-06-2010, 08:27 PM
He also says there are no homosexuals in Iran.
He's a statist, just not a western statist.
KramerDSP
03-06-2010, 08:31 PM
Ahmadinejad is no friend of ours.
Brad Zink
03-06-2010, 08:33 PM
Ahmedinejad is an actor like the other major politicians on the world stage.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad revealed to have Jewish past
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's vitriolic attacks on the Jewish world hide an astonishing secret, evidence uncovered by The Daily Telegraph shows.
By Damien McElroy and Ahmad Vahdat
Published: 7:30AM BST 03 Oct 2009 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/6256173/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-revealed-to-have-Jewish-past.html)
A photograph of the Iranian president holding up his identity card during elections in March 2008 clearly shows his family has Jewish roots. A close-up of the document reveals he was previously known as Sabourjian – a Jewish name meaning cloth weaver. The short note scrawled on the card suggests his family changed its name to Ahmadinejad when they converted to embrace Islam after his birth.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01494/ahm_1494743f.jpg
The Sabourjians traditionally hail from Aradan, Mr Ahmadinejad's birthplace, and the name derives from "weaver of the Sabour", the name for the Jewish Tallit shawl in Persia. The name is even on the list of reserved names for Iranian Jews compiled by Iran's Ministry of the Interior.
Experts last night suggested Mr Ahmadinejad's track record for hate-filled attacks on Jews could be an overcompensation to hide his past. Ali Nourizadeh, of the Centre for Arab and Iranian Studies, said: "This aspect of Mr Ahmadinejad's background explains a lot about him. Every family that converts into a different religion takes a new identity by condemning their old faith. By making anti-Israeli statements he is trying to shed any suspicions about his Jewish connections. He feels vulnerable in a radical Shia society."
A London-based expert on Iranian Jewry said that "jian" ending to the name specifically showed the family had been practising Jews.
"He has changed his name for religious reasons, or at least his parents had," said the Iranian-born Jew living in London. "Sabourjian is well known Jewish name in Iran."
A spokesman for the Israeli embassy in London said it would not be drawn on Mr Ahmadinejad's background. "It's not something we'd talk about," said Ron Gidor, a spokesman.
The Iranian leader has not denied his name was changed when his family moved to Tehran in the 1950s. But he has never revealed what it was changed from or directly addressed the reason for the switch. Relatives have previously said a mixture of religious reasons and economic pressures forced his blacksmith father Ahmad to change when Mr Ahmadinejad was aged four. The Iranian president grew up to be a qualified engineer with a doctorate in traffic management. He served in the Revolutionary Guards militia before going on to make his name in hardline politics in the capital.
During this year's presidential debate on television he was goaded to admit that his name had changed but he ignored the jibe.
However Mehdi Khazali, an internet blogger, who called for an investigation of Mr Ahmadinejad's roots was arrested this summer.
Mr Ahmadinejad has regularly levelled bitter criticism at Israel, questioned its right to exist and denied the Holocaust. British diplomats walked out of a UN meeting last month after the Iranian president denounced Israel's 'genocide, barbarism and racism.'
Benjamin Netanyahu made an impassioned denunciation of the Iranian leader at the same UN summit. "Yesterday, the man who calls the Holocaust a lie spoke from this podium," he said. "A mere six decades after the Holocaust, you give legitimacy to a man who denies the murder of six million Jews while promising to wipe out the State of Israel, the State of the Jews. What a disgrace. What a mockery of the charter of the United Nations."
Mr Ahmadinejad has been consistently outspoken about the Nazi attempt to wipe out the Jewish race. "They have created a myth today that they call the massacre of Jews and they consider it a principle above God, religions and the prophets," he declared at a conference on the holocaust staged in Tehran in 2006.
Article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/6256173/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-revealed-to-have-Jewish-past.html
phill4paul
03-06-2010, 08:41 PM
He also says there are no homosexuals in Iran.
He's a statist, just not a western statist.
Agrreed. I think he is one of many TOOLs. Quit happy to have his sphere and quite happy to echo opposing statists views as long as it justifies the state of his influence. Yet, I believe, there is a reason.
Example:
Consider Federal Prison.
One would think the government is in control. Not so.
It is pretty well known that gangs leaders still run their business even in incarceration.
In a microcosim of federal control I beleive the prison works like this...
It creates three groups to fight against each other instead of working together against the principals of their incarceration.l
"Black", Latinos and "Whites."
Gotta keep them seperated.
phill4paul
03-06-2010, 08:44 PM
Ahmadinejad is no friend of ours.
No more so than any "politician" or "statists." But, he is not an enemy to distract us from our own countries enemies.
dannno
03-06-2010, 09:03 PM
Ahmadinejad is no friend of ours.
Just because he doesn't embrace free market principles doesn't mean he isn't fighting against the same establishment we are.
Matt Collins
03-06-2010, 09:05 PM
YouTube - Judge Napolitano on Iran War Rhetoric (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv9QiL2p0dk)
dannno
03-06-2010, 09:09 PM
Hey Matt, I agree mostly with what the Judge says, but his statements about Ahmadinijad being crazy is based on a mis-translation of two statements that have been repeated thousands of times and pounded into our heads by the media.
phill4paul
03-06-2010, 09:23 PM
Just because he doesn't embrace free market principles doesn't mean he isn't fighting against the same establishment we are.
My belief he is just a TOOL. He's been approached. He's accepted the deal Because, well, unacceptance is bad....
None of us should even be close to sympathizing with a psychopath like Ahmedinejad.
He may not be another Hitler, and I definitely don't support a war against Iran, but he is no angel, and his persecution of the protesters in June is evidence that he is a tyrant.
phill4paul
03-06-2010, 10:04 PM
None of us should even be close to sympathizing with a psychopath like Ahmedinejad.
He may not be another Hitler, and I definitely don't support a war against Iran, but he is no angel, and his persecution of the protesters in June is evidence that he is a tyrant.
Agree. Fuck no for sympathizing...
Just saying he was portrayed as a loon w/ regards to 9/11 then aquated w/ holocaust....
MSM.....
Correllation = Causation
sofia
03-06-2010, 10:48 PM
Ahmedenjad strikes me as an honorable man with more guts than our politicians.
Iran hasn't invaded or threatened anyone. He also received 2/3 of the vote in a free and fair election. (despite what MSM and the CIA funded "protestors" in Iran would have you believe)
People one these forums who speak ill of him have nothing to back up their ignorant smears against Ahmedejad.
Sad to see forum members on here sounding like ill informed neo-cons.
Stop smearing a man you have never met...... from a nation you have never visited....whose culture and history you no little about.......and you dont even speak Persian!!!!!
Brad Zink
03-06-2010, 11:07 PM
A globalist frontman:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0viO-Dm52sM/R8E36ms83nI/AAAAAAAAFKA/9D0_8LMy7hQ/s400/ahmadinejad.jpg
Ahmedenjad strikes me as an honorable man with more guts than our politicians.
Iran hasn't invaded or threatened anyone. He also received 2/3 of the vote in a free and fair election. (despite what MSM and the CIA funded "protestors" in Iran would have you believe)
People one these forums who speak ill of him have nothing to back up their ignorant smears against Ahmedejad.
Sad to see forum members on here sounding like ill informed neo-cons.
Stop smearing a man you have never met...... from a nation you have never visited....whose culture and history you no little about.......and you dont even speak Persian!!!!!
Ahmedinejad is a despot. You are a crank.
And insinuating that being against him equals being anti-Iranian is like saying being anti-Bush or anti-Obama is anti-American.
sofia
03-06-2010, 11:14 PM
Ahmedinejad is a despot. You are a crank.
And insinuating that being against him equals being anti-Iranian is like saying being anti-Bush or anti-Obama is anti-American.
Why do you say he is a "despot?"....
Tell me in your words...not the media's regurgitated puke...
back it up with facts.
Why do you say he is a "despot?"....
Tell me in your words...not the media's regurgitated puke...
back it up with facts.
Let's see, maybe because some of the protesters were getting killed by his regime? That is despotism. He is a third world tyrant.
jsu718
03-06-2010, 11:32 PM
Let's see, maybe because some of the protesters were getting killed by his regime? That is despotism. He is a third world tyrant.
The protesters that were setting gas stations on fire and attacking military posts?
Reason
03-07-2010, 12:26 AM
can anyone find a link to his full statement with original trustworthy translation?
squarepusher
03-07-2010, 01:07 AM
He wants to wipe Israel off the map I heard it on Fox news!!1112121!!
Liberty Star
03-07-2010, 01:09 AM
This Iranian POTUS is one of the few jewish leaders on the world stage today who is not plagued by apartheid associations or violent racism stigmas, he needs to speak up against forces of fascism and parasites in US political system. "Thank you" letter he sent to US for removing Saddam at huge cost to homeowners and tax payers and for installing Iran allied SCIRI revolution should be beginning of this dialog and not the end.
dannno
03-07-2010, 01:48 AM
his persecution of the protesters in June is evidence that he is a tyrant.
Is that your only evidence that he's a bad guy?? Persecution of violent protesters?
dannno
03-07-2010, 01:49 AM
A globalist frontman:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0viO-Dm52sM/R8E36ms83nI/AAAAAAAAFKA/9D0_8LMy7hQ/s400/ahmadinejad.jpg
Maybe he has a deaf granddaughter in the audience :confused:
revolutionisnow
03-07-2010, 02:05 AM
This Iranian POTUS is one of the few jewish leaders on the world stage today who is not plagued by apartheid associations or violent racism stigmas, he needs to speak up against forces of fascism and parasites in US political system. "Thank you" letter he sent to US for removing Saddam at huge cost to homeowners and tax payers and for installing Iran allied SCIRI revolution should be beginning of this dialog and not the end.
Ahmadinijad is not Jewish, that is just propaganda. Once they are no longer able to censor, control, or paint someone as a nutjob, the last resort is to say they are either a Jew or spread rumors that they were controlled opposition all along. Some try to say Hitler was a Jew also. As far as how he handled the violent protesters, people might want to look in their own backyard before they cry bloody murder on someone else. I'm sure I could find plenty of stories where cops right here in the USA unjustly killed someone or used too much force. Is Obama responsible for the action of every cop in the nation? I think Iran did give some of the protesters a trial though, which is more that we do here in the USA anymore. As far as his questioning the Holocaust, he has some good points. It is very odd that every year they have about 5 new holocaust/nazi movies come out, yet we are told that we can not ask questions about it, and people in much of Europe are even arrested and thrown in jail for lengthy periods for the "thought crime" of doubting the holocaust.
YouTube - Iran's Ahmadinejad on Holocaust (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykd-syzZ4ZY)
Brian Williams mentions Steven Spielberg, here is someone from his movie
YouTube - SPIELBERG LAWSUIT .Irene Weisberg Zisblatt, Caught on Tape Lying About The holocaust (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1G-DBpaPyM)
"Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove" - Robert Jan Van Pelt, an architectural historian and a leading expert on Auschwitz
http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/742965--a-case-for-letting-nature-take-back-auschwitz
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/05/mahmoud-ahmadinejad-jewish-family
GreedyHenry
03-07-2010, 02:14 AM
Is that your only evidence that he's a bad guy?? Persecution of violent protesters?
I always ask people who are so quick to demonize Iran for their alleged treatment of the protesters. What would the US government do if those protests were in the US? Can anyone honestly not see an extended time of martial law, people dying at the governments hands, and of course more laws & less liberties.
BlackTerrel
03-07-2010, 02:56 AM
This Iranian POTUS is one of the few jewish leaders on the world stage today who is not plagued by apartheid associations or violent racism stigmas, he needs to speak up against forces of fascism and parasites in US political system. "Thank you" letter he sent to US for removing Saddam at huge cost to homeowners and tax payers and for installing Iran allied SCIRI revolution should be beginning of this dialog and not the end.
You ever feel like you just make stuff up?
POTUS stands for President of the United States - which Ahmadinejad is not.
Ahamdinejad is also not a "Jewish leader".
BlackTerrel
03-07-2010, 02:57 AM
Ahmadinijad is not Jewish, that is just propaganda. Once they are no longer able to censor, control, or paint someone as a nutjob, the last resort is to say they are either a Jew or spread rumors that they were controlled opposition all along. Some try to say Hitler was a Jew also.
I love how in your world the biggest insults thrown at Hitler or Ahmadinejad are to call them Jews.
BlackTerrel
03-07-2010, 03:02 AM
Is that your only evidence that he's a bad guy?? Persecution of violent protesters?
As well as shutting down the internet, cell reception etc...
I have Iranian classmates. During the protests they were all anti their own government, posting links on facebook and trying to spread the word of what was going on in their country.
It's odd that Ahmadinejad is far more popular on RPF than among actual Iranians that I know.
RM918
03-07-2010, 03:07 AM
Wow, are we really this desperate for allies? First Beck and now this? What next? Kim Jong-il?
You know, maybe he's not quite AS bad as the MSM paints him, that's sort of what they do, but this train of thought that, 'Well, if the MSM attacks him, he must be one of the last few pure human beings left on this earth!' without any evidence either way is sort of troubling.
revolutionisnow
03-07-2010, 03:12 AM
I love how in your world the biggest insults thrown at Hitler or Ahmadinejad are to call them Jews.
I said it was a tactic, never used the word insult once.
As well as shutting down the internet, cell reception etc...
I have Iranian classmates. During the protests they were all anti their own government, posting links on facebook and trying to spread the word of what was going on in their country.
It's odd that Ahmadinejad is far more popular on RPF than among actual Iranians that I know.
Wow Ex-pats have something they don't like about their birth country? I'm sure if you go talk to people from India, China, Vietnam, etc living here in the US they will all be able to tell you some things they don't like about their native country. If they thought their native country was the best place in all the world, they probably would be living there currently. And I bet if you go talk to some Americans living in Vietnam, India, China,etc, I bet they can tell you some things they don't like about the US. I bet you can even find plenty of Americans right here in the US that don't like what Obama is doing, they might even be spreading links on facebook about what he is doing.
PS. See the button right beside the quote button, that is a multiquote button, use that on all the replies that you want to respond to and then hit the quote button on the last one and you can respond all in 1 post.
BlackTerrel
03-07-2010, 03:38 AM
I said it was a tactic, never used the word insult once.
A tactic to do what? Hitler and Ahmadinejad are discredited by calling them Jews?
Wow Ex-pats have something they don't like about their birth country? I'm sure if you go talk to people from India, China, Vietnam, etc living here in the US they will all be able to tell you some things they don't like about their native country.
These aren't ex-pats. They're people who go to school here and desire to eventually go back. Usually their friends and family are still back in Iran. As far as Indians go - I know more Indians than any other nationality (not American of course) and most of them are fiercely proud of their country. They acknowledge issues with poverty but love their country and are very proud and patriotic and believe the country is headed in the right direction.
India also never shuts down internet or cell service to quell protests.
If they thought their native country was the best place in all the world, they probably would be living there currently. And I bet if you go talk to some Americans living in Vietnam, India, China,etc, I bet they can tell you some things they don't like about the US. I bet you can even find plenty of Americans right here in the US that don't like what Obama is doing, they might even be spreading links on facebook about what he is doing.
Sure but we can still access facebook and talk about it right?
PS. See the button right beside the quote button, that is a multiquote button, use that on all the replies that you want to respond to and then hit the quote button on the last one and you can respond all in 1 post.
Ah never noticed that. Thank you.
revolutionisnow
03-07-2010, 03:51 AM
Facebook and the various other internet services are US companies and under the watch of the various US alphabet agencies. Iran, China, and other countries do not have inside ties to services like google and facebook,so they would have no way of controlling them or finding out who made a threat. A law enforcement officer could pretty easily contact the service and get an IP trace etc of where the threat came from, pretty sure these other countries would have much more trouble doing that.
TroySmith
03-07-2010, 06:45 AM
Just because he doesn't embrace free market principles doesn't mean he isn't fighting against the same establishment we are.
Yes is does. Free market capitalism is individualism. The rest is just different versions of collectivism and giant state power.
sofia
03-07-2010, 08:37 AM
As well as shutting down the internet, cell reception etc...
I have Iranian classmates. During the protests they were all anti their own government, posting links on facebook and trying to spread the word of what was going on in their country.
It's odd that Ahmadinejad is far more popular on RPF than among actual Iranians that I know.
Those were emergency measures needed to curb the CIA inspired coup. Iran is under seige from Mossad, CIA, and gullible CIA backed protestors who want to overturn a legal election.
As far as your Iranian "classmates" who oppose Ahmedajad are concerned.....So????? Most of them probably come from families that benefitted under the US puppet Shah.
I assure you that there are many more Iranian college kids....and adults...who like Ahmededajad. He got 66% of the vote!
Google: "Bush CIA Iran" and see all the dirt that comes up.
sofia
03-07-2010, 08:42 AM
Wow, are we really this desperate for allies? First Beck and now this? What next? Kim Jong-il?
You know, maybe he's not quite AS bad as the MSM paints him, that's sort of what they do, but this train of thought that, 'Well, if the MSM attacks him, he must be one of the last few pure human beings left on this earth!' without any evidence either way is sort of troubling.
When one accuses a man of evil intentions.......the onus of proof is 100% on the accuser. To date, I have not seen one shred of objective evidence to support the allegations that Ahmedejad is corrupt, dangerous, dishonest, or evil.
RM918
03-07-2010, 09:06 AM
When one accuses a man of evil intentions.......the onus of proof is 100% on the accuser. To date, I have not seen one shred of objective evidence to support the allegations that Ahmedejad is corrupt, dangerous, dishonest, or evil.
There's accusing a man of evil intentions and then there's accusing a man of good intentions. There's little objective evidence for either.
lester1/2jr
03-07-2010, 11:54 AM
what is he running for governor of texas now?
Bucjason
03-07-2010, 11:57 AM
Amadinejad is crazy , so it's stands to reason he is a Truther also.
dannno
03-07-2010, 12:06 PM
Amadinejad is crazy
When one accuses a man of evil intentions.......the onus of proof is 100% on the accuser. To date, I have not seen one shred of objective evidence to support the allegations that Ahmedejad is corrupt, dangerous, dishonest, or evil.
I'd say that goes for sanity as well.
So, I hope you are aware, in your search for said insanity, that the vast majority of statements the media attributes to Ahmadinijad are complete mistranslations. Make sure you get the right ones ;)
almantimes2
03-07-2010, 12:27 PM
http://disc.420chan.org/pol/src/1267872225003.jpg
revolutionisnow
03-07-2010, 12:27 PM
YouTube - What You May Not Know about President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyWul35JnjY&)
YouTube - Truth About Ahmadinejad_1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE8VDwsuYms)
RM918
03-07-2010, 12:32 PM
YouTube - What You May Not Know about President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyWul35JnjY&)
Pure evil.
Pete_00
03-07-2010, 01:24 PM
If i was Iranian i probably wouldnt like him but as a Citizen of the World i have great admiration for Ahmadinejad...
a) Regarding 911 he is just saying what every top government official and intelligence agency in the WORLD knows...that a bunch of gentile and jewish zionists allowed a bunch of arab "usefull idiots" to do it
b) He is NOT an "holocaust denier", he simply asks very good questions: If the existence of gas chambers and the 6 million number are such a certainty why nobody is allowed to do a neutral cientific/historical research? Why the Palestinians have to pay for something that Europeans did? Why are the massacre of Jews above the massacre of millions and millions of Christians, Western and Eastern Europeans, Asians, Gypsies, etc? Why doesnt the Western media and intellectuals mention the FACT that hardcore Zionists and Nazis collaborated? This are fair and very good questions, there is nothing extremist about them, this are questions that are important to every Human on the face of the Planet, i even dare to say that -in the times we live in- this are the most important questions around.
c) Regarding the "nuclear", how come Israel nuclear program gets a free pass? Dont forget that several people (some Israelis included) hinted that Israel blackmails the entire World with their nukes, that their nuclear program isnt designed just for a war in the Middle East but its designed for the "Samson Option".
d) Its very easy to talk about the Iranian government opressive measures but you people fail to realise that they are surrounded and bullyed by the most powerfull "empire" in History, most of you would probably support many of the measures if you were in their place. The CIA/Mossad/MI6/others would eat them alive if they didnt adopted such opressive measures. Libertarians say that with war there cant be no small government and freedom and its true, but the same goes for countries that are victims of that very same war machine...the ones starting the trouble (the USA/West-Israel junta) are the main responsibles.
dannno
03-07-2010, 01:30 PM
If i was Iranian i probably wouldnt like him but as a Citizen of the World i have great admiration for Ahmadinejad...
Correction: If you were Iranian you probably would like him, because he won the popular election.
BlackTerrel
03-07-2010, 01:48 PM
Max you are the best.
Those were emergency measures needed to curb the CIA inspired coup. Iran is under seige from Mossad, CIA, and gullible CIA backed protestors who want to overturn a legal election.
I wonder how people on this forum would feel if the US government shut down the internet and cell phone service under the guise of "this is the only way, we're under attack". How many people here would believe that nonsense.
As far as your Iranian "classmates" who oppose Ahmedajad are concerned.....So????? Most of them probably come from families that benefitted under the US puppet Shah.
How do you have any clue?
I assure you that there are many more Iranian college kids....and adults...who like Ahmededajad.
How the hell could you possibly assure me of that?
Old Ducker
03-07-2010, 02:13 PM
Agrreed. I think he is one of many TOOLs. Quit happy to have his sphere and quite happy to echo opposing statists views as long as it justifies the state of his influence. Yet, I believe, there is a reason.
Example:
Consider Federal Prison.
One would think the government is in control. Not so.
It is pretty well known that gangs leaders still run their business even in incarceration.
In a microcosim of federal control I beleive the prison works like this...
It creates three groups to fight against each other instead of working together against the principals of their incarceration.l
"Black", Latinos and "Whites."
Gotta keep them seperated.
This has been debunked. It's western psyops.
Old Ducker
03-07-2010, 02:23 PM
Pure evil.
From what I know, Ahmedinejad is indeed a humble man and has done much to root out corruption, hence the split with Rafsanjani. However he was elected to improve the economy, a task that obviously hasn't been aided by his obcession with Israel and his otherwise incendiary rhetoric. Iran should be one of the wealthiest nations on earth; it has everything going for it. Instead it has 25% unemployment and a business climate ranked among the lowest, which is the main reason talent continues to pour out of that nation.
revolutionisnow
03-07-2010, 03:14 PM
I wonder how people on this forum would feel if the US government shut down the internet and cell phone service under the guise of "this is the only way, we're under attack". How many people here would believe that nonsense.
If someone were to post threats of violence or organize violent revolutions on facebook/twitter/etc here in the US you can be sure that various law enforcement groups would be investigating them. I doubt Iran would be able to investigate them in the same manner, so instead they just block the service.
From what I know, Ahmedinejad is indeed a humble man and has done much to root out corruption, hence the split with Rafsanjani. However he was elected to improve the economy, a task that obviously hasn't been aided by his obcession with Israel and his otherwise incendiary rhetoric. Iran should be one of the wealthiest nations on earth; it has everything going for it. Instead it has 25% unemployment and a business climate ranked among the lowest, which is the main reason talent continues to pour out of that nation.
They have various trade restrictions and regulations put on them which is part of the problem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._sanctions_against_Iran
BlackTerrel
03-07-2010, 03:33 PM
If someone were to post threats of violence or organize violent revolutions on facebook/twitter/etc here in the US you can be sure that various law enforcement groups would be investigating them.
They didn't block specific websites (as China does) they blocked access entirely to the internet as well as cell phone service.
I doubt Iran would be able to investigate them in the same manner, so instead they just block the service.
Are people that love freedom really defending shutting down access to the internet and cell phones to an entire country of 75 million people? Really?
sofia
03-07-2010, 05:59 PM
They didn't block specific websites (as China does) they blocked access entirely to the internet as well as cell phone service.
Are people that love freedom really defending shutting down access to the internet and cell phones to an entire country of 75 million people? Really?
When that country is under attack from foreign powers.... (I mean a real threat from USA, UK, and Israel....not the phony Al Qaeda bullshit our government uses)....it's easy for you to pass judgement on what emergency measures the rightful Iranian state has to take in self defense.
Iran has been living with the constant terroristic threat of a US/UK/Israeli attack ever since 2004.
How would you feel if Ron Paul were elected President by a 2-1 majority....and a group of foreign powers threatened to bomb you until Ron Paul is removed from office.....and then they organize violent neo-con and liberal "students" to start riots and attempt to overthrow Ron????
jmdrake
03-07-2010, 09:01 PM
None of us should even be close to sympathizing with a psychopath like Ahmedinejad.
He may not be another Hitler, and I definitely don't support a war against Iran, but he is no angel, and his persecution of the protesters in June is evidence that he is a tyrant.
Those "protests" were a joke. And anyone who thinks Ahmedinejad holds any real power knows nothing about the Iranian political system. All of the real power is wielded by the "supreme leader". The "supreme leader" is appointed for life by the "assembly of experts", but the "assembly of experts" can replace the supreme leader. The "assembly of experts" is elected by popular vote. Only the elections for the assembly of experts really freakin matter!
The current "supreme leader" went through a period of trying to appease the question through "reformer" president Khatami. That effort was a dismal failure because George W. Bush is a total turd. And so the supreme leader shifted gears and put in (excused "allowed for") "crazy man" Ahmedinejad. Ahmedinejad will stay in power until either the supreme leader thinks there is someone sane at the head of the United States, or until the people get tired of the game and elect an assembly of experts that will replace the current supreme leader.
Ron_Paul_Knows
03-08-2010, 03:57 AM
Romney blames Obama for Ahmadinejad's truther comments, haha
http://rawstory.com/2010/03/romney-obamas-supports-911-truthers/ (http://rawstory.com/2010/03/romney-obamas-supports-911-truthers/)
GreedyHenry
03-08-2010, 04:17 AM
If someone were to post threats of violence or organize violent revolutions on facebook/twitter/etc here in the US you can be sure that various law enforcement groups would be investigating them.
people were arrested just for posting on twitter during G-20.
Bucjason
03-08-2010, 07:35 AM
LOL @ Dannno being a fan of Ahmedinejad . HAHAHA!
itshappening
03-08-2010, 08:06 AM
they're trying to demonize 911 truth
Beck will lap this up and link Medina and anyone else to the crazy firebrand iranian
pcosmar
03-08-2010, 08:37 AM
When that country is under attack from foreign powers.... (I mean a real threat from USA, UK, and Israel....not the phony Al Qaeda bullshit our government uses)....it's easy for you to pass judgement on what emergency measures the rightful Iranian state has to take in self defense.
Iran has been living with the constant terroristic threat of a US/UK/Israeli attack ever since 2004.
How would you feel if Ron Paul were elected President by a 2-1 majority....and a group of foreign powers threatened to bomb you until Ron Paul is removed from office.....and then they organize violent neo-con and liberal "students" to start riots and attempt to overthrow Ron????
A lot of truth there.
But the threat has been since at least 1953.
http://www.fff.org/comment/com0501i.asp
The 1953 CIA coup in Iran was named “Operation Ajax” and was engineered by a CIA agent named Kermit Roosevelt, the grandson of President Theodore Roosevelt. Capitalizing on the oil-nationalization showdown between Iran and Great Britain, which had thrown Iran into chaos and crisis, Kermit Roosevelt skillfully used a combination of bribery of Iranian military officials and CIA-engendered street protests to pull off the coup.
jmdrake
03-08-2010, 09:13 AM
YouTube - Is Ron Paul serious? Blowback in 1979 from a 1953 coup? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldgbOxDX6DE)
MikeStanart
03-08-2010, 09:48 AM
YouTube - Is Ron Paul serious? Blowback in 1979 from a 1953 coup? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldgbOxDX6DE)
The elections were rigged, no matter how you slice it. So for all of you guys saying he's a great leader....you're nuts.
pcosmar
03-08-2010, 10:17 AM
The elections were rigged, no matter how you slice it. So for all of you guys saying he's a great leader....you're nuts.
Who ???
Who said he is a great leader? I missed that.
Or is pointing out the lies, smears, and propaganda by OUR government the same as declaring him a great leader?
:confused:
down-under
03-08-2010, 10:55 AM
I am half Persian and a staunch anti-interventionist libertarian and as such I find some of the misguided posts here (a liberty forum!) justifying or tacitly supporting Ahmadinejad absolutely appalling.
I am the first to know of American intervention (The ousting of prime minister mossadegh in operation Ajax) and its unenteded consequences: the islamic revolution.
The islamic republic - a theocracy- is one of the most tyrannical regimes on earth and Ahmadinejad is one of the utmost proponents of its most opressive version. One where there is absolutely no economic, personal, sexual, religious, political freedom.....
Religious minorities, homosexuals are persecuted. Women are discriminated against. Personal freedoms are constantly curtailed on the name of ultra-conservative "islamic adherance". Oposition memebers are tortured, raped and killed in prison. Newspappers are closed, freedom of expression does not exist. Reformist orientated members are barred from entering elections. There is no rule of law. The economy is totally stagnant due the wholesale nationalization of every industry...
I am against any interventionist against Iran. Being a staunch liberty orientated anti-interventionist means that we should be against our governments intervening abroad yet being intellectually opposed to every tyrant oppressing its citizens abroad.
jmdrake
03-08-2010, 10:57 AM
The elections were rigged, no matter how you slice it. So for all of you guys saying he's a great leader....you're nuts.
Quote where I said he was a "great leader" or admit that YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS NUTS! Really, the president in Iran has about as much power as Ms. America. I get tired of who try to argue policy when they don't take the time to educate themselves on the subject.
jmdrake
03-08-2010, 11:08 AM
I am half Persian and a staunch anti-interventionist libertarian and as such I find some of the misguided posts here (a liberty forum!) justifying or tacitly supporting Ahmadinejad absolutely appalling.
Great. So maybe you can explain to people why Ahmadinejad has no real power! Care to talk a little about Mohammed Khatami and how he repeatedly offered an olive branch to the west? The same "supreme leader" pulling the strings when Khatami was president pulls the strings now that Ahmadinejad is president. He's clearly going for the same thing, survival of the regime. A perfect regime? Of course not. Neither are our Chinese allies. But all of the "Israel off the face of them map" posturing is just that. What happens in the presidential election is just a distraction. The real fight is over the Assembly of Experts.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2009/06/the-assembly-of-experts.html
down-under
03-08-2010, 11:15 AM
Quote where I said he was a "great leader" or admit that YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS NUTS! Really, the president in Iran has about as much power as Ms. America. I get tired of who try to argue policy when they don't take the time to educate themselves on the subject.
That is a valid point. Iranian presidents are constrained by the Islamic republic framework where ultimately the great leader, Ali Khamenei makes the shots.
However, presidents in Iran have had some power in easing off or conversely tighting in the level of oppression.
Under reformist Khatami (which under our standars would be deemed to be a fascist too) the enforcement of "morality laws" were somewhat relaxed, newspappers opened, a more aperturist foreign policy took shape and a number of timid reforms were put in place. Ultimately, the Khatami government which lets not forget carried on around 70% of Iranian vote failed as it failed to deliver on real reform.
Ahmadinejad has gone the other way. He has reversed back on the small gains of the reformists. The morality policy (militiaman enforcing islamic dress code etc) is in full force, the economy has got even worse, human right abuses have worsened and dozens of newspappers have been closed...
down-under
03-08-2010, 11:21 AM
Great. So maybe you can explain to people why Ahmadinejad has no real power! Care to talk a little about Mohammed Khatami and how he repeatedly offered an olive branch to the west? The same "supreme leader" pulling the strings when Khatami was president pulls the strings now that Ahmadinejad is president. He's clearly going for the same thing, survival of the regime. A perfect regime? Of course not. Neither are our Chinese allies. But all of the "Israel off the face of them map" posturing is just that. What happens in the presidential election is just a distraction. The real fight is over the Assembly of Experts.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2009/06/the-assembly-of-experts.html
I know that. Coincidentally I have replied to that point below.
I know that Ahmadinejad is a mere figurehead for a tyranical regime. As long as there is an Islamic republic there will be oppression.
jmdrake
03-08-2010, 11:55 AM
That is a valid point. Iranian presidents are constrained by the Islamic republic framework where ultimately the great leader, Ali Khamenei makes the shots.
However, presidents in Iran have had some power in easing off or conversely tighting in the level of oppression.
Under reformist Khatami (which under our standars would be deemed to be a fascist too) the enforcement of "morality laws" were somewhat relaxed, newspappers opened, a more aperturist foreign policy took shape and a number of timid reforms were put in place. Ultimately, the Khatami government which lets not forget carried on around 70% of Iranian vote failed as it failed to deliver on real reform.
Ahmadinejad has gone the other way. He has reversed back on the small gains of the reformists. The morality policy (militiaman enforcing islamic dress code etc) is in full force, the economy has got even worse, human right abuses have worsened and dozens of newspappers have been closed...
Point taken. I should have said "power to threaten U.S. security". As I understand it, the president of Iran doesn't have power over the military, so he can't even launch a spitball at anyone. And I'm sure life inside Iran sucks for a lot of people. But life inside Saudi Arabia sucks for a lot of people. Also the reason I believe that Khatami failed to deliver on real reform was because he was never able to deliver on better ties to the west despite all of his efforts and thus never able to fix the economy. Iran was the only Muslim nation (to my knowledge) to participate in the U.S. led coalition against the Taliban. And our "thanks" was putting them on the "Axis of Evil" list? Around the same time we brought Moammar Kadafi "in from the cold". What kind of message did that send? That Iran needed a leader nutty enough for the west to eventually respect?
Anyway, I agree with the general assessment that Amadinjad sucks. I just think this is more of a tactic by Khamenei to try to win concessions through a "show of strength" since the olive branch didn't work. Do you think Rasanjani could muster a vote to oust Khamenei once things calm down?
BlackTerrel
03-08-2010, 03:18 PM
When that country is under attack from foreign powers.... (I mean a real threat from USA, UK, and Israel....not the phony Al Qaeda bullshit our government uses)....it's easy for you to pass judgement on what emergency measures the rightful Iranian state has to take in self defense.
Iran has been living with the constant terroristic threat of a US/UK/Israeli attack ever since 2004.
How would you feel if Ron Paul were elected President by a 2-1 majority....and a group of foreign powers threatened to bomb you until Ron Paul is removed from office.....and then they organize violent neo-con and liberal "students" to start riots and attempt to overthrow Ron????
I can tell you what. Under no circumstances would I support any US President (including if it were Ron Paul) blocking internet and cell phone access for the entire country. Would you?
BlackTerrel
03-08-2010, 03:26 PM
Under reformist Khatami (which under our standars would be deemed to be a fascist too) the enforcement of "morality laws" were somewhat relaxed, newspappers opened, a more aperturist foreign policy took shape and a number of timid reforms were put in place. Ultimately, the Khatami government which lets not forget carried on around 70% of Iranian vote failed as it failed to deliver on real reform.
I have asked Iranian classmates (who are staunchly anti the Iranian regime) how they know that the election was a fraud. After all I know Californians who were stunned that prop 8 passed because "everyone they knew" voted against it. I said maybe they are simply out of touch. That their friends and family are simply more reformist types.
They answered similar to what you wrote above. Khatami won in a landslide 70% of the vote. Since his election the general population has become more reformist, his views have become even more popular. And yet suddenly Ahmadinejad wins 66% of the vote. That doesn't make sense - there is no way such a huge percentage of the population just shifts like that.
It would be the equivalent of Ron Paul winning 80% of the vote in the primary a couple days ago. And then a few years from now Tim Graney wins 70% of the vote. No way that just happens.
revolutionisnow
03-08-2010, 03:47 PM
"WASHINGTON – A poll of Iran’s electorate three weeks before its election showed President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad leading by a two to one ratio, greater than the announced results of the contested vote, pollsters said yesterday."
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2009/0616/1224248898600.html
BlackTerrel
03-08-2010, 06:08 PM
"WASHINGTON – A poll of Iran’s electorate three weeks before its election showed President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad leading by a two to one ratio, greater than the announced results of the contested vote, pollsters said yesterday."
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2009/0616/1224248898600.html
From your article:
Of those polled, 34 per cent said they would vote for the president while 14 per cent preferred Mr Mousavi, with 27 per cent undecided.
How did Ahmadinejad go from 34% to 66% in such a short amount of time?
“The breadth of Ahmadinejad’s support was apparent in our pre-election survey,” the pollsters said, rejecting arguments the poll might have reflected a fearful reluctance to give honest answers.
Really? I would say 52% of people not answering that they backed either candidate is exactly reflecting of a fearful reluctance to give honest answers. Can you imagine that Obama McCain polling a couple weeks before the election would have been 34% to 14%?
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