Tuition Increase argument from our perspective ?

[haaaylee]

With these protests going on I'd like to hear some more thoughts on why tuition is so high. I get it, and I love what Peter Schiff says about it, but i have a feeling a lot of us are going to be asked questions or have to deal with these people and I'd like us all to throw out some good points we could use if we were to get into a discussion about it.

[TCE]

Extremely Simplified:

1. Government Backs Loans.

2. State sponsored schools, state legislatures raise tuitions to fund the state.

3. Teacher licensing. Without it, costs would go down for some schools.

4. State mandated required classes, also known as Gen Eds.

Those are just some.

[johngr]

Same as medical services (I don't use the term "health care" because that's slave language): government-distorted markets.

[Reason]

The Ticking College Time-Bomb


by Brian A. Krol (truthisliberty@gmail.com)
by Brian A. Krol
http://s7.addthis.com/static/btn/lg-share-en.gif (http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php)



With all the talk of bubbles bursting in terms of stocks, equities, currencies and real estate, one very troubling trend is brewing: the rising cost of college. America has always been treasured for its emphasis on individualism contributing to a robust middle class society. It was in America where one had the mobility to move the most freely between the social classes. Over the past century, a college education was the fundamental gateway towards a middle-class American life. One was told “Work hard, get a good education, obtain a degree and you will be virtually guaranteed a high standard of living in the United States.” With the United States struggling through its worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, the everyday American continues to struggle with the rising costs of food, clothing, energy and utilities. The rising cost of attending college is on an unsustainable path. The impending college collapse is a multi-tired phenomenon that will unilaterally evolve one of America’s most treasured institutions.
America has just turned the page on the first decade of the 21st Century, one Time Magazine referred to as “The Decade from Hell.” It was during this past decade where Americans have witnessed the purchasing power of their dollar diminishing against other major currencies (37 percent against the euro, 31 percent against the Canadian dollar, and 17 percent against the British pound). The weakened value of the currency has lead prices of everyday goods to skyrocket forcing a decline in the standard of living. Simply put, it takes more dollars to purchase fewer goods (a symptom of inflation). While the cost of living has skyrocketed, the wealth and savings of individual Americans has fallen through the floor.
For the better part of the last decade, it was seen virtually as a “right” to own a home. The average American was allowed to put almost nothing down to obtain an adjustable rate mortgage. As a symptom of the bubble, the price of housing rose exponentially, creating a phony illusion of wealth. Owners of these adjustable rate mortgages were able to extract liquidity from their home and use the profit to proliferate the distorted American Dream. This illusionary prosperity sadly expired, when the adjustable rate mortgages inevitably reset leaving the majority of homeowners underwater. In concert with the illusionary wealth created by a ballooning housing bubble, so too can be said about the false sense of security a college degree offers.
According to the US Census, college enrollment has increased 17% between the years 2000–2008 alone. At the same time enrollment has increased so too has the cost of attending a college. Forbes magazine highlighted, “College tuition has increased by more than three times the rate of inflation for the last 20 years, despite U.S. wages flat-lining since 2000.” In the past year the Huffington Post broke it down more specifically stating, “Average tuition at four-year public colleges in the U.S. climbed 6.5 percent, or $429, to $7,020 this fall as schools apologetically passed on much of their own financial problems to the students and at private colleges, tuition rose 4.4 percent, or $1,096, to $26,273 from 2008–2009 alone”
The tightening squeeze on University budgets is already beginning to spiral out of control. On November 19, 2009, the University of California, Los Angeles announced a 32% tuition hike if passed would raise costs from $7,788 to $8,373 by Winter Quarter and to $10,302 from summer 2010 through the following academic year. This news was met with an unpleasant reaction from the student body. In the wake of the announcement, students clashed with campus police bordering close to an all out riot leading to the arrests of at least 14 university student protesters.
Perhaps the greatest threat to the university establishment, or how Trend’s Research Institute director Gerald Celente aptly coins it “The University-Industrial Complex,” is the rise in alternative outlets for education. Rather than becoming subservient to bloated tuition fees and useless curriculum requirements, alternative education puts the student in the driver’s seat. Online College has exploded with opportunity and innovation through out the last decade. Major institutions such as the Massachusetts Institute of Technology regularly post lectures of some of their advanced science courses. Popular media sites such as YouTube put the individual in the driver’s seat providing a gateway of an endless array of instructional, educational, and informative video content.
As a consequence of the past few decades of capital misallocation, the United States has decreased productive goods-producing private sector jobs in favor of government service sector jobs. This has resulted in an ever-increasing trade deficit impairing our economy from real economic growth. As result, production-oriented skills have been in increasing demand in the ailing U.S. Economy. Trade and skill-oriented training is on the rise striking a major blow to the University establishment. An article in USA Today mid-2009 illustrated the appeal to this alternative form of schooling, “Going to school for school's sake is not what they want," "They want something to get them back to work.” The author’s opinion looks more like a consensus, especially in an economy with 54% unemployment for young adults under the age of 25!
President Barack Obama recently announced a plan to curb college tuition fees in a plan that strives to slow the rate of yearly tuition increases, guarantee fixed tuition and financial aid for five years, increasing financial aid by increasing fund raising, and lessening the amount of debt students graduate with. This of course, will have the opposite effect by subsidizing the already bloated system and providing no mechanism for competitiveness. Consequently, this will drive tuition costs higher yet, even faster than they have previously accelerated. Unfortunately, this cannot continue indefinitely and will only make the system even more broken and will lead to more difficulties to sort out down the road.
In conclusion, which ever way one chooses to assess “College Collapse,” there should be little debate to the evolving paradigm. There is no question that the belt-tightening for most universities will continue at least through the year 2010. Universities will continue spending cuts, layoffs and tuition hikes into the foreseeable future. Consequently, this is a mounting burden on a collapsing middle-class America where jobs are continuing to disappear, wages decline, the cost of living rises, savings decrease and economic conditions deteriorate. Students are beginning to face the question of whether it is worth investing 4 years+ of their time and money only to graduate heavily in debt in a depression era jobless environment. A liberal arts degree is simply uncompetitive in an already bloated public service sector and the typical university curriculum does not translate into a wounded economy starving for goods production and export. Thankfully, alternative education is rapidly evolving and starving establishment Universities of their monopoly over the higher-education system. The inevitable end result will cripple the University establishment by way of the free market. Institutions will compete to enroll students by offering incentive – lower prices, more freedom, less bureaucracy and most of all more learning! The unfortunate short-term consequence will be the fate of several university employees as many universities will drastically cut pay, downsize and some close their doors forever.

February 5, 2010
Brian A. Krol is a free market libertarian columnist and host of the daily Truth Is Liberty podcast (http://truthisliberty.us/).
Copyright © 2010 Brian A. Krol

[Reason]

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/14077/299434.aspx#299434

[Reason]

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/12137/270676.aspx#270676

[Reason]

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/21/the-true-cause-of-college-tuition-inflation/

[Reason]

I am having a hard time finding much info as to "WHY" but I will keep posting what I do find

[Reason]

This one looks promising...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13673226/-Making-College-More-Expensive-The-Unintended-Consequences-of-Federal-Tuition-Aid-Cato-Policy-Analysis-No-531-

[Promontorium]

Ticking college time bomb

Certainly there are more efficient methods of education available. And the college system is loaded to fail.

BUT

No one gives a shit what people know.

I'm an expert in several fields, and I'm very proficient in several more fields, ranging from example; electronics, electrician work, custodial work, security, anti-terrorism. I can't even begin to list the shit I can operate or repair. And I've had years of management experience.

I'm left wondering what can't I do? I don't know anything about medicine, or law,so I suppose there are two things I can't do. But when it comes to kid's cliche' dream jobs, cop, doctor, fireman, I've got two of those down.

But despite my expertise, I'm also very good when working with staff, and I am excellent with customer service, did I mention I can do any job in a restaurant? I've professionally worked food service including customers, industrial milling, concert security dealing with literally thousands of people simultaneously. I learned how to drive a fork lift when I was 12. I've built solid structures from the ground up. I know the tools of a dozen trades. I can work 18 hour days and not complain.

But no one will hire me for shit. And no one would pay more than minimum wage. I am fucked.

However, there's this magical piece of paper, that any asshole can obtain, it's a golden ticket to comfy corner office jobs and fat wages that can support families. It's the college degree. Now certainly the degree has to be a good one, and you can't just pick any old job, but it's an open door.

So here I am in college. I already know more than my professors. I'm old and I've been living this crazy life for longer than I care to remember. I'm getting this magic piece of paper, because you aren't worth shit in this country without it. And maybe, a decade more of work and I might be able to go up a little higher, and get a better degree.

Maybe I'll die with a doctorate, because it seems with every idiot in this country getting that degree, it won't be quite as valuable, certainly without it, you'll be less than nothing, but with it, you'll just be one of the pack, and you'll have to go for longer and longer years.

As contemporary as some places claim to be, they all still worship that degree, and don't even consider anyone else.

I suppose I could start my own business, and risk a lifetime of debt in a roll of a dice, but I just have absolutely no faith in this nation, or specifically this state's government not completely steamrolling me into epic bankruptcy, but I've had enough dreams crushed in my lifetime so I'd rather just find a hole I can wedge myself into for the time being.

I often come to this thought; why is it so damn hard, to be mediocre. Why can't I just get a simple job? My main pleasures in life are not derived from work, but I certainly appreciate a good days work, and it does make me feel good. Why can't I just find a place? You think I want to have worked in so many fields, only to see them close the door on any potential future?

Nah this sucks. Viability and practicality at this point may be buying a boat and living off fish I catch. This whole damn system reminds me of a disease that just eats away at a victim's vital reserves.

I'm not the only one. I could list you the experts I know, who in the past had a chance in this world with their knowledge, but are seeing this market, this nation dry up. I don't take the 20% unemployment personally. I don't think my state imposes these "ideals" these regulations, these cuts to freedom with some personal vendetta. So I'm going to play their game. It's everyone's game I suppose, survival. And as long as the rules are made up by more powerful people, you have to play their version.

[Reason]

This PDF from CATO seems to be the best explanation I can find so far.

You can download it or read it on that site.

I made a free account to download it with a BS email account in about 15 seconds.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13673226/-Making-College-More-Expensive-The-Unintended-Consequences-of-Federal-Tuition-Aid-Cato-Policy-Analysis-No-531- (http://www.scribd.com/doc/13673226/-Making-College-More-Expensive-The-Unintended-Consequences-of-Federal-Tuition-Aid-Cato-Policy-Analysis-No-531-)

[bunklocoempire]

Why is tuition so high?

From my own experience in the land of "furlough fridays-keiki first" Hawaii::rolleyes::mad:

High tuition is due to government regulation. Government -along with "higher learning" institutions- sets up hoops, and to comply, you need the letters behind your title.

My wife and I have run into this roadblock (government/"education" system extortion) with her business, without getting into specifics, hoops/roadblocks have been thrown up to fleece her as her business becomes more and more successful.

To enjoy substantially higher profits she is required to purchase "schooling" -letters behind her name.

Higher education had NOTHING to do with her hard work, success, and experience in her field. She had NO higher education prior to her success.

Her business provides a better service at a higher cost than those in her field with letters behind their names.

She continuously gains clients from her "higher educated" competition.

Inequality of those who suceed on their own. :mad::mad::mad:

When something is REQUIRED by government, those who sell what is required jack up the price, and those who meet governments requirements will be tempted to rest on their "laurels" and provide a lesser service.








Bunkloco

[TastyWheat]

I did really agree with the argument that prices are being driven by government student loans, but one exception leads me to think this could have very little to do with it.

If you haven't heard of Hillsdale College they pride themselves on not accepting government money. Assuming they accept none whatsoever I would think their tuition would be very low. However, their tuition is still about $27,000 a year. I realize they offer financial assistance from private sources, but would things remain unchanged if government loans were discontinued? Would prices be driven up by private loans rather than public ones?

[Inflation]

With these protests going on I'd like to hear some more thoughts on why tuition is so high. I get it, and I love what Peter Schiff says about it, but i have a feeling a lot of us are going to be asked questions or have to deal with these people and I'd like us all to throw out some good points we could use if we were to get into a discussion about it.

They are so in love with Obama that they will ignore the expensive, budget draining Wars that were not acceptable under Bush.



The students should be chanting


BRING THEM HOME!

SPEND IT HERE!

[TCE]

I did really agree with the argument that prices are being driven by government student loans, but one exception leads me to think this could have very little to do with it.

If you haven't heard of Hillsdale College they pride themselves on not accepting government money. Assuming they accept none whatsoever I would think their tuition would be very low. However, their tuition is still about $27,000 a year. I realize they offer financial assistance from private sources, but would things remain unchanged if government loans were discontinued? Would prices be driven up by private loans rather than public ones?

That is only one facet, and yes, it does drive up costs. Here's why:

Let's say the government doesn't automatically give everyone money, the poorer you are, the more you get (which is exactly the opposite of what it should be), then a lot of people would be forced to go to the banks. They would be denied loans. They wouldn't go to college. The schools would see their profits and enrollment take a nosedive, and they'd lower their prices to bring people back.

That is just one area. Consider they are still affected by regulations mandating what they must teach.

[Anti Federalist]

You have just described the globalist wage/debt slave system.

Welcome to the machine, where a "mediocre" blue collar living is a thing of the past. (Not that there is anything really mediocre about actually doing something at your job)

All by design, all on purpose.


Certainly there are more efficient methods of education available. And the college system is loaded to fail.

BUT

No one gives a shit what people know.

I'm an expert in several fields, and I'm very proficient in several more fields, ranging from example; electronics, electrician work, custodial work, security, anti-terrorism. I can't even begin to list the shit I can operate or repair. And I've had years of management experience.

I'm left wondering what can't I do? I don't know anything about medicine, or law,so I suppose there are two things I can't do. But when it comes to kid's cliche' dream jobs, cop, doctor, fireman, I've got two of those down.

But despite my expertise, I'm also very good when working with staff, and I am excellent with customer service, did I mention I can do any job in a restaurant? I've professionally worked food service including customers, industrial milling, concert security dealing with literally thousands of people simultaneously. I learned how to drive a fork lift when I was 12. I've built solid structures from the ground up. I know the tools of a dozen trades. I can work 18 hour days and not complain.

But no one will hire me for shit. And no one would pay more than minimum wage. I am fucked.

However, there's this magical piece of paper, that any asshole can obtain, it's a golden ticket to comfy corner office jobs and fat wages that can support families. It's the college degree. Now certainly the degree has to be a good one, and you can't just pick any old job, but it's an open door.

So here I am in college. I already know more than my professors. I'm old and I've been living this crazy life for longer than I care to remember. I'm getting this magic piece of paper, because you aren't worth shit in this country without it. And maybe, a decade more of work and I might be able to go up a little higher, and get a better degree.

Maybe I'll die with a doctorate, because it seems with every idiot in this country getting that degree, it won't be quite as valuable, certainly without it, you'll be less than nothing, but with it, you'll just be one of the pack, and you'll have to go for longer and longer years.

As contemporary as some places claim to be, they all still worship that degree, and don't even consider anyone else.

I suppose I could start my own business, and risk a lifetime of debt in a roll of a dice, but I just have absolutely no faith in this nation, or specifically this state's government not completely steamrolling me into epic bankruptcy, but I've had enough dreams crushed in my lifetime so I'd rather just find a hole I can wedge myself into for the time being.

I often come to this thought; why is it so damn hard, to be mediocre. Why can't I just get a simple job? My main pleasures in life are not derived from work, but I certainly appreciate a good days work, and it does make me feel good. Why can't I just find a place? You think I want to have worked in so many fields, only to see them close the door on any potential future?

Nah this sucks. Viability and practicality at this point may be buying a boat and living off fish I catch. This whole damn system reminds me of a disease that just eats away at a victim's vital reserves.

I'm not the only one. I could list you the experts I know, who in the past had a chance in this world with their knowledge, but are seeing this market, this nation dry up. I don't take the 20% unemployment personally. I don't think my state imposes these "ideals" these regulations, these cuts to freedom with some personal vendetta. So I'm going to play their game. It's everyone's game I suppose, survival. And as long as the rules are made up by more powerful people, you have to play their version.

[torchbearer]

easy money through loan increases the number of people going to college.
when demand is up and supply is finite, the price will go up.