Should the government continue to provide welfare benefits?

[Southern Man]

I was having a discussion with a friend of mine about Senator Kyl's claim that continuing to provide unemployment benefits discourages people from finding work.

My friend said that those benefits should continue to be provided because jobs are very scare, the economy is bad, and some people barely have enough money to get by and thus the welfare benefits are nececessity.

When looking through Paul's voting record, I also noticed that he continuously voted against extending unemployment benefits.

Should the government cease providing unemployment benefits despite the wretched economy and bad jobs market? If so, then what do struggling people do especially when many are dependent on welfare because of the crisis through no fault of their own?

[Paulfan05]

I think they should be cut eventually but there are better things to cut first, or make them much smaller amounts.

[TonySutton]

welfare and unemployment are a moral hazard. If they did not exist people would save more of their money to support themselves when times get tough.

[AuH20]

I'm old-school. Experience is the greatest teacher. In turn, I hope they lash out at the ones that deceived them.

[MelissaWV]

I was having a discussion with a friend of mine about Senator Kyl's claim that continuing to provide unemployment benefits discourages people from finding work.

My friend said that those benefits should continue to be provided because jobs are very scare, the economy is bad, and some people barely have enough money to get by and thus the welfare benefits are nececessity.

When looking through Paul's voting record, I also noticed that he continuously voted against extending unemployment benefits.

Should the government cease providing unemployment benefits despite the wretched economy and bad jobs market? If so, then what do struggling people do especially when many are dependent on welfare because of the crisis through no fault of their own?

Most of us have already paid quite a bit into unemployment insurance (which is what it is...). Taking this as a given, the benefits should not simply stop. The extensions, though, are ridiculous and unfair to those who have found themselves in similar situations previously. Many people have been out of work longer than their benefits covered, but they will not have received the extra benefits because they were out of work at the "wrong time." In reality, if you look at the classifieds for any large city, you'll find a variety of positions available for those people willing to work.

These aren't all fast food jobs, either. Last night I found 729 positions for Detroit listed on one site, and they touched on a huge range of skills and education. This was one city, one website, and did not include the metro area. Jobs are scarce because people are using the same strategies to look for the same jobs, even though this is a different situation. There are also a lot of people who've been with the same company for a long time who are suddenly finding themselves seeking employment amid new technology and new standards.

To some folks, it's just going to be way easier to realize they make more money sitting on their butt than not. Those of us working, though, are paying into a pot that has fewer and fewer contributors, and more and more people taking money out. Extending unemployment benefits is unfair, unethical, and a really poor longterm solution on pretty much every front.

[RCA]

I think any federal entitlements should 1) have the option to opt out immediately and 2) have the current beneficiaries "weened" off them over the course of 2 or 3 years so they have to time to adjust and/or make other plans like seeking private charity.

[BlackTerrel]

You can't just stop it now. Otherwise there would be chaos and many people without food to eat. But I think you can slowly ween them off of it. But it has to be gradual.

[BenIsForRon]

It has to be gradual, and in combination with a bunch of other cuts, like in subsidies to corporations.

[AuH20]

You can't just stop it now. Otherwise there would be chaos and many people without food to eat. But I think you can slowly ween them off of it. But it has to be gradual.

I agree. But Terrell, you're a pretty grounded guy.... Do you think they the government has the resources at their disposal to save 1 out of every 5 americans over the long haul? Tax revenues have shrunk dramatically and they have painted themselves in a corner. By the same token, the owners of the Federal Reserve don't appear suicidal to permanently break their toy with rapid hyper-inflation.

[jsu718]

You can't just cut it off because people paid in. Unemployment specifically is taken out of every paycheck, so it would be immoral to just deny benefits. I would support capping it at the amount paid in while they phased it out and cut it off though. Same with things like SS and Medicare.

I don't agree with the argument that Unemployment Benefits discourage people from looking for work though, as it is barely enough to get by... and requires that you are looking for work as well.

[dannno]

I think it sucks that the first thing we are discussing cutting is the last thing we should be discussing cutting, but none-the-less, should be cut, and it would provide benefit to the economy..

What we really need to do is produce the best possibly environment for people to get jobs, then let them run wild and get jobs.. We need to cut overseas spending and cut entire departments out of the Federal Govt., raise interest rates to encourage savings, get rid of federal business regulations, get rid of Federal Minimum Wage laws and cut taxes. Then once we have a good environment for jobs to be created, we start cutting benefit amounts so that those who really need it will still have it to rely on for a while, but those who don't really need it will begin to go look for ways to make more money.

But how the hell are people supposed to start their own businesses which hire people, produce various goods which are made by people or grow their own food which is harvested by people to sell on the market when there are so many damn regulations??

We may be encouraging people to go back to work, we just aren't creating the best environment for them to do that.. in fact it's a horrible environment.

We really need Peter Schiff in the senate (and Rand so he can take over during filibusters while Schiff is in the can ;))

[TonySutton]

Do your states have a personal unemployment tax? The reason I ask is that there is NOT a federal personal unemployment tax. The federal government gets FUTA from companies not individuals.


Only the employer pays FUTA tax; it is not deducted from the employee's wages.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=104985,00.html

I am pretty sure most states operate similarly. Of course, I agree, if the companies are paying the tax it is getting passed on either in the costs of its products/services or by lack of pay increases to employees, but it does not appear to be a direct tax on the employee.

[jsu718]

Do your states have a personal unemployment tax? The reason I ask is that there is NOT a federal personal unemployment tax. The federal government gets FUTA from companies not individuals.



http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=104985,00.html

I am pretty sure most states operate similarly. Of course, I agree, if the companies are paying the tax it is getting passed on either in the costs of its products/services or by lack of pay increases to employees, but it does not appear to be a direct tax on the employee.

Here in Texas at least it IS taken from the employee, not just the employer (although a smaller percentage), and appears on paychecks as such.

[BlackTerrel]

I agree. But Terrell, you're a pretty grounded guy.... Do you think they the government has the resources at their disposal to save 1 out of every 5 americans over the long haul? Tax revenues have shrunk dramatically and they have painted themselves in a corner. By the same token, the owners of the Federal Reserve don't appear suicidal to permanently break their toy with rapid hyper-inflation.

I'm with you.

When I was younger I looked at welfare as free money "hey the government can afford it". That is still how most people who are on welfare look at it I imagine.

But it's not the government. You ask if the government has the resources - and they do - as long as they continue to rob and rape the productive members of society for every dime that they earn.

There's no reason that those of us who work our asses off and produce should be paying 40 cents of every dollar we make to the government. Not to mention the additional money they get from us on sales tax, property tax, DMV, parking tickets, speeding tickets etc... they're bleeding us dry and we can't afford it.

The handouts need to stop, the ridiculous amount of money we spend on the wars need to stop, the money we spend on the "drug wars" needs to stop, the foreign aid needs to stop. Stop all the bullshit and cut my taxes down to a reasonable amount so that I can produce and live my life - that's all I want from government.

Anyway I'm going on a tangent - as I tend to do. Welfare needs to end, but it needs to be done in a fair, tiered way. So maybe in 2015 it stop completely but in the meantime we try to educate these people and slowly get them off the system. You can't just one day say "March 12 2010 no more welfare, you're done, you starve". Set a date five years from now where welfare ends and gradually move us towards that mark.

[BillyDkid]

You know, we live with a system that is rigged from top to bottom. The government is largely responsible for creating a dependent underclass and this is unfortunate, but what bothers me most are those at the top who use their access to the levers of power to skim the cream off the top. Those in control have always used the tactic of pitting the powerless against each other. Blacks versus whites, working class versus underclass and so on.

It is tough for me to get worked up over someone who can not find work in a system rigged against him getting unemployment benefits when we have, say, Wall Street bankers getting billions at the expense of taxpayers and it's hard for me to get worked up over welfare moms when you have top military contractor executives getting massive windfalls, when you have a protected class who can not lose no matter what stupid decisions they make or how poor a job they do thanks to their connections in government.

Government will always primarily serve the interests of the powerful and those with influence. The rest of us - the middle class, the working class, the poor - are nothing more than pawn in a game we don't even know the rules of. As for myself, I will be 55 and unemployed and getting unemployment for the first time in my life at the end of the month. Should anyone begrudge me getting unemployment until I can find something else from a program I have paid into for 35 years?

[Southron]

If the benefits are not stopped we are all gonna pay more through inflation.

Eventually those checks aren't going to buy very much.

[Stary Hickory]

It needs to be ended, it cause more damage then it helps. At the very least it needs to stop at the Federal Level where it is strictly unconstitutional. If states want to do it then let them, get these decisions closer to the people that it effects.