Why I Refuse to Jump on the ACLU Bandwagon

[skiingff]

Someone had mentioned in another thread (the one about a city in MN trying to force removal of a RP banner) that the ACLU does not discriminate against anyone and is a fantastic organization.

Well, I beg to differ. It may just be that the lawyers at the ACLU are sue-happy and so embroiled in a bureaucratic organization that they don't let common sense prevail over their constitutional "right" to have a religion-free society on public grounds.

http://www.sethwhite.org/images/mcmurdo/walking%20the%20fuel%20lines/common%20sense%20rip%202.jpg

But at some point, a little common sense HAS to kick in. There has to be a little light bulb that comes on in their head.

http://humanityquest.com/themes/inspiration/Comics/images_Microsoft/%20BeanManIdeaLight.gif

One example is the ACLU suing to have a cross removed honoring dead WWI veterans.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110006747

The ACLU threatened to sue Los Angeles over a cross on the county seal because it was an unconstitutional "endorsement of Christianity." Here is the "cross":
http://www.markdroberts.com/images/LACountySeal-t.jpg
http://www.markdroberts.com/htmfiles/resources/crosscontroversy.htm
Bowing to the ACLU's demands, the Board of Supervisors voted 3-to-2 to remove the tiny cross from the County Seal.

I've also read about the ACLU suing to remove a cross on the side of the road that honored the memory of a 19-year-old girl that died in a car accident.

So while the ACLU may sue so cities can't remove political signs, at the same time they sue to force cities to remove crosses. Hypocrisy?

[UtahApocalypse]

As I had stated in the other post:

I think the ACLU has its crazy times, and can do some stupid things. However, they DO have the knowledge, power, and legal ability to back a fight on the first amendment.

[bbachtung]

I disagree with the ACLU a lot (especially their view that the 2nd Amendment is not a civil liberty), but they can be useful.

[DeadheadForPaul]

I'm a former member of the ACLU. I joined mainly because Bob Barr (now a libertarian) talked about the importance of putting conservatives and moderates in the movement for social/personal freedom and joining the ACLU. While they do some good, they also do some bad and some of the bad got to me. They defended a libertarian I knew so theyre still on my good side but theyre often way too hostile to religion (and im not even religious!) and they also believe in state-enforced economic equality as well as support of illegal immigrants

[ksuguy]

They also tend to have a very poor record when it comes to the 2nd amendment. They like to treat the bill of rights like a buffet and pick and choose which ones they like.

[skiingff]

You two pretty much summed it up. The ACLU is a selective, pick-and-choose organization.

Free speech = good, UNLESS it involves religion.
Guns = bad.

That's why I've never supported them. They kick ass on many issues, but are pure hypocrites on others that should just be left alone.

Since they aren't principled, I cannot lower my standards to support them.

Isn't there an alternative to the ACLU?

[McDermit]

The shit they've pulled in Hazleton turned me for good.

[SeanEdwards]

Bible thumpers can erect a big cross at the courthouse on the same day that the devil worshipers get to setup an altar to Baal in the jury box.

[cjhowe]

When you can ignore part of the Constitution, you can ignore it all.

[cjhowe]

The shit they've pulled in Hazleton turned me for good.

Wow...just Wow. Hazelton violated due process, jurisdiction, and speech. Yeah, that ACLU needs to STFU :rolleyes:

[skiingff]

Bible thumpers can erect a big cross at the courthouse on the same day that the devil worshipers get to setup an altar to Baal in the jury box.

No one's talking about crosses at the courthouse.

I'm talking about crosses that worship the dead on the side of the road. Hell, I'm not even that religious, but I'd be fumed if someone I knew died in a car accident and we put a cross there to honor them, and the ACLU sued.

And suing over a small little + in a county seal. I mean, ridiculous shit, while they're fighting to take my guns away from me.

[Shellshock1918]

ACLU is a communist front. The founder openly admitted to the pursuit of socialism. They care about no one's individual freedom.

[LibertyEagle]

Isn't there an alternative to the ACLU?

Bradley mentioned the Institute for Justice.

[noxagol]

Yeah, ACLU may do some very good things, but they are ebil incarnate.

[LibertyBelle]

ACLU is a communist front. The founder openly admitted to the pursuit of socialism. They care about no one's individual freedom.

Correct, the ACLU was started by communists. They have an agenda. The good they do is a front.

[cjhowe]

They also tend to have a very poor record when it comes to the 2nd amendment. They like to treat the bill of rights like a buffet and pick and choose which ones they like.

Actually they don't. The is very little guidance by the SCOTUS on the 2nd amendment. Where there is guidance, it is the interpretation that it is to protect state regulated militias, and not individuals. I would disagree with the SCOTUS on this as the historical context of the drafting reads to the individual. Because the SCOTUS has taken the militia interpretation we must amend the constitution. Until such time, you cannot fault the ACLU for aligning their interpretation with the SCOTUS.

[McDermit]

Wow...just Wow. Hazelton violated due process, jurisdiction, and speech. Yeah, that ACLU needs to STFU :rolleyes:

Suing the city for legal fees and a settlement does what? Punishes local taxpayers for something that the mayor did. Sure, that's fair.

And I will never agree with you on the illegal immigration issue, so don't even bother.

[FrankRep]

Someone had mentioned in another thread (the one about a city in MN trying to force removal of a RP banner) that the ACLU does not discriminate against anyone and is a fantastic organization.

Well, I beg to differ. It may just be that the lawyers at the ACLU are sue-happy and so embroiled in a bureaucratic organization that they don't let common sense prevail over their constitutional "right" to have a religion-free society on public grounds.

I for one don't support the ACLU. I don't trust them.

[Lord Xar]

I see them, the aclu, as an oportunist organization that represents "constitutional" ideas ONLY so far as it furthers their communist/socialists goals.

I have to say, I am NOT a big fan of the aclu..

www.stoptheaclu.com

[Hook]

The IJ is a much better organization that promotes civil liberties in a libertarian context. They are the ones that fought the New London eminent domain case. They also sue cities to allow political signs to be placed on private property.
Unlike the ACLU, they don't believe the Constitution provides for income equality or affirmative action.
I give them 10 bucks a month, and they are a charitable org so donations are tax deductable.

[cjhowe]

Suing the city for legal fees and a settlement does what? Punishes local taxpayers for something that the mayor did. Sure, that's fair.

And I will never agree with you on the illegal immigration issue, so don't even bother.

Elect representatives that don't trample the constitutional rights of EVERY citizen and you won't have to worry about paying legal fees for enacting failed ordinances.

[Hook]

Another organization that is much better than the ACLU is the Electronic Frontier Foundation. They fight for Internet privacy and the right of citizens to use military grade encryption, etc.

[fletcher]

Bible thumpers can erect a big cross at the courthouse on the same day that the devil worshipers get to setup an altar to Baal in the jury box.

So where in the Constitution does it say what state court houses are allowed to put on their property? I must have missed that section.

[Lord Xar]

i am pretty sure ANY group fighting for Americans is better than the aclu. aclu is nothing but a special interest tank looking to corrupt the republic..

[Karsten]

The Karsten Foundation is better than the ACLU. It is composed of one person-- me. If someone is violating your constitutional rights, I will personally come and kick their ass!

[mikelovesgod]

Anyone who supports the ACLU is insane. They are out for themselves, not us, the little guys.

[cjhowe]

The Karsten Foundation is better than the ACLU. It is composed of one person-- me. If someone is violating your constitutional rights, I will personally come and kick their ass!

So who do we call when Karsten is the one violating rights?:D

[ThePieSwindler]

So who do we call when Karsten is the one violating rights?:D

Would need a system of checks and balances.

[NewEnd]

I love the ACLU

[libertarian4321]

"Bowing to the ACLU's demands, the Board of Supervisors voted 3-to-2 to remove the tiny cross from the County Seal.

I've also read about the ACLU suing to remove a cross on the side of the road that honored the memory of a 19-year-old girl that died in a car accident.

So while the ACLU may sue so cities can't remove political signs, at the same time they sue to force cities to remove crosses. Hypocrisy?"

Not at all.

Those "crosses" were on PUBLIC PROPERTY- if I stick a "RON PAUL" sign OR a cross on PUBLIC Property, they have the right to ask me to remove it.

If I put a cross (or Ron Paul sign) on MY PROPERTY, they can't make me take it down.

You can put up what you want on YOUR PROPERTY, but not on PUBLIC PROPERTY.

[Karsten]

Would need a system of checks and balances.

I AM checks and balacnes! :D

[cjhowe]

"Bowing to the ACLU's demands, the Board of Supervisors voted 3-to-2 to remove the tiny cross from the County Seal.

I've also read about the ACLU suing to remove a cross on the side of the road that honored the memory of a 19-year-old girl that died in a car accident.

So while the ACLU may sue so cities can't remove political signs, at the same time they sue to force cities to remove crosses. Hypocrisy?"

Not at all.

Those "crosses" were on PUBLIC PROPERTY- if I stick a "RON PAUL" sign OR a cross on PUBLIC Property, they have the right to ask me to remove it.

If I put a cross (or Ron Paul sign) on MY PROPERTY, they can't make me take it down.

You can put up what you want on YOUR PROPERTY, but not on PUBLIC PROPERTY.

This is a red herring and likely a fabricated one at that. Much like saying that the ACLU will eventually go after Arlington Memorial Cemetery.

[Mesogen]

So where in the Constitution does it say what state court houses are allowed to put on their property? I must have missed that section.

Then an altar to Baal it is?

[Hook]

I think the ACLU runs out of cases sometimes, so they have to dig deep into nonsensical absurdities to keep busy.

[madcat033]

I refuse to support the ACLU because they are hypocrites.

Their stated mission is "to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States."

Yet somehow, they support affirmative action. It's not that I am opposed to affirmative action (which I am) but it's the fact that they shouldn't be taking a position either way on this issue. Last I checked, affirmative action is NOT an individual right or liberty guaranteed to every person by the Constitution. It's inappropriate for them to take a stand either way.