Who Do So Many Liberals Conflate Libertarianism with Objectivism/Randianism???

[BuddyRey]

It really bothers me, because every time I read a liberal blog about Ron Paul, he's always labeled "a disciple of Ayn Rand", when those two are oceans apart ideologically.

I always respond by correcting that Ron Paul has far more in common with Murray Rothbard (barring the latter's more radical anti-statism), but then they never seem to know who I'm talking about! :mad:

Why is the "face" of libertarianism a woman who virulently hated us and called us "hippies of the right"?

[AlexMerced]

I'm pretty sure Ron Paul has said he's a fan on Ayn Rand, it'd explain why he names his son "Rand"

[BuddyRey]

I know RP likes her books, and believe it or not, I'm a fan too. But if Ron Paul was a "disciple" of Ayn Rand, he'd be voting in Congress to blow the Hell out of Iran right now.

[1000-points-of-fright]

I'm pretty sure Ron Paul has said he's a fan on Ayn Rand, it'd explain why he names his son "Rand"

Rand is simply short for Randall. He just doesn't like being called Randy. Much like some people named Michael prefer Mike over Mikey.

[TheState]

I don't consider it that bad of a thing. Our YAL chapter just co-hosted a speaker with the Objectivists club. It was Craig Biddle from the Ayn Rand Institute. Honestly, I don't think I disagreed with him on any points.

He said we are born with rights, governments only job is to protect them. He said we should be listening to people like Mises and Hazlitt and we should get rid of the Fed. He advocated private charity over government welfare. He sounded just like any speaker from our group. I wouldn't have known the difference if someone didn't say he was from ARI.

[FrankRep]

I'm pretty sure Ron Paul has said he's a fan on Ayn Rand, it'd explain why he names his son "Rand"
Rand is short for Randal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_Paul

[ScoutsHonor]

I know RP likes her books, and believe it or not, I'm a fan too. But if Ron Paul was a "disciple" of Ayn Rand, he'd be voting in Congress to blow the Hell out of Iran right now.

It would be a great error to mistake Leonard Peikoff, the current leader of the Objectivist movement, for Ayn Rand - who created Objectivism. In my opinion, Ayn Rand would not have been in favor of "blowing the hell out of Iran" - whereas Leonard Peikoff seems to be quite a bloodthirsty warmonger..

[muzzled dogg]

i live in massachusetts and i've never met a liberal that's even known what objectivism or randianism is.

[zade]

Well, the solution is to demonstrate that we are so called "compassionate" libertarians. Or more specifically, we're all for charity, generosity, cooperation, and all things like this for the voluntary betterment of our fellow humans, while Rand didn't think charity was a virtue and saw self-betterment to be the most significant moral value.

[Agorism]

I think believing in (1) decentralization of power (no standing army and IRS for the president and possibly not even the governors) and (2) being anti-war is generally what separates libertarianism from the other two parties, which both have constantly changing beliefs. Also civil liberties issues.

[low preference guy]

I consider myself a libertarian and an Objectivist. I support pretty much every policy libertarians support, but I don't justify them with the NAP. I justify them with Objectivist ethics.

So if someone conflates me with both libertarians and Ayn Rand. I wouldn't protest.

[johngr]

It would be a great error to mistake Leonard Peikoff, the current leader of the Objectivist movement, for Ayn Rand - who created Objectivism. In my opinion, Ayn Rand would not have been in favor of "blowing the hell out of Iran" - whereas Leonard Peikoff seems to be quite a bloodthirsty warmonger..

BULLSHIT

YouTube - Ayn Rand on Israel and the Middle East (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uHSv1asFvU)

Ayn Rand's likely position: "We can't let those "savages" have a nuke unless we deliver it to them. From the air".

[Agorism]

Ayn Rand was ethnically jewish.

[mczerone]

(1) Because Objectivists usurp "Libertarian" as identical to "We want the state to be limited to those things that can be objectively determined". The problem is that nothing is truly capital-O Objective between an entire society, even though Rand's inner circle thought they "knew everything". Existentially, the only thing that is "objective" is that a thinker exists, even if as a further creation of another. (Hint: this leads to a measure of libertarianism if one further accepts that "actors" are "thinkers", and thus exist, and that existence should be respected as you'd expect your own to be respected)

(2) Politcal distance is a peculiar measure. Two things that may be nearly the same direction from center might be further away from each other than from things nearly antipodal. Think of a fern: two leaves at the very tip that physically touching surfaces between each other may be separated from each other with respect to the structure of the plant farther than either is separated from the base of the plant. So both social groups are "radical libertarians", but each are closer in thought to centrist independents than they are to each other.

[johngr]

(1) Because Objectivists usurp "Libertarian" as identical to "We want the state to be limited to those things that can be objectively determined". The problem is that nothing is truly capital-O Objective between an entire society, even though Rand's inner circle thought they "knew everything". Existentially, the only thing that is "objective" is that a thinker exists, even if as a further creation of another. (Hint: this leads to a measure of libertarianism if one further accepts that "actors" are "thinkers", and thus exist, and that existence should be respected as you'd expect your own to be respected)

(2) Politcal distance is a peculiar measure. Two things that may be nearly the same direction from center might be further away from each other than from things nearly antipodal. Think of a fern: two leaves at the very tip that physically touching surfaces between each other may be separated from each other with respect to the structure of the plant farther than either is separated from the base of the plant. So both social groups are "radical libertarians", but each are closer in thought to centrist independents than they are to each other.

Could you give an example of two diametrically opposed political ideologies that actually resemble each other more than two that on the surface seem "closely related" (Don't use anarchism because it's unique to any other in the state-intervention dimension)?

[RM918]

I'm surprised even people here buy into that 'Ron Paul named his son after Ayn Rand' thing.

[libertythor]

I seriously doubt that Ayn Rand would support the fiscal malfeasance in the name of these no-win wars. But either way, the fundamentals of Objectivism aren't war-like.

[Taco John]

It really bothers me, because every time I read a liberal blog about Ron Paul, he's always labeled "a disciple of Ayn Rand", when those two are oceans apart ideologically.

I always respond by correcting that Ron Paul has far more in common with Murray Rothbard (barring the latter's more radical anti-statism), but then they never seem to know who I'm talking about! :mad:

Why is the "face" of libertarianism a woman who virulently hated us and called us "hippies of the right"?

It's because libertarianism enables Randianism. You should be thankful. They will try worse by equating it with racism too. If you haven't seen that yet, brace for it. It wil come.

[ScoutsHonor]

BULLSHIT

YouTube - Ayn Rand on Israel and the Middle East (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uHSv1asFvU)

Ayn Rand's likely position: "We can't let those "savages" have a nuke unless we deliver it to them. From the air".

And you surmise this how? -Through this 31-year-old video of a television interview by a highly hostile interviewer?

I'm curious to know whether you've even read any of her works, let alone "know" what she would say on a complex, quickly-changing issue such as this?

[TroySmith]

I've read, I think either in an interview or an objectivist newsletter, that Rands main complaint against Iran was that America exported it's technology to help them create oil fields, only to have Iran socialize them and America pull out.

In general, Rand only believed in using force in self defense or to protect property rights.

In my honest opinion, Rand had a pretty pure form of minarchism. Federal government had the responsibility of courts and an army. States and towns, potentially, had a somewhat larger role should the local populace choose it. The whole "Rand was a neo-con warmonger" is a gross distortion of her philosophy. I've read so many posts on even this forum that talks about how they just "skipped over" John Galts speech and other similar things in regards to Rand....and then proceed to bash her and her philosophy. It's unbelievably naive to do this. Rand was certainly one of the greatest philosophers, and most liberty loving, to ever live.

[MN Patriot]

I'm surprised even people here buy into that 'Ron Paul named his son after Ayn Rand' thing.

Some Objectivists changed their names incorporating the word "Rand". Nathaniel Branden, Barbara Branden. I'm sure many people named their kids with the letters "rand' in them. Randal. Brandy. Miranda. Laranda. Brando.

About the liberals equating libertarianism with objectivism, they are closely aligned ideologies so naturally they will equate the two. I see no problem with that.