advice for 20 year old?

[SouthGeorgia61]

I am in community college right now and I am about to finish an associates degree in business administration. I'm thinking of going for accounting for a bachelors, if not i would switch to a science but i don't know if i can handle it(serious).

I have a job at a supermarket, I work probably 35 hours a week. I look for other jobs but not much is out there obviously. I had an interview at a radio station a week ago a local one to work as a cold-caller and attempt to get people to buy radio station space, but I am going to probably turn it down because it is at least 45 hours a week and has no base, and i don't trust that i will be able to get people to buy radio station space in this economy in a station that has a city of 80,000 people and not much around. it says you could go from 700 to 1400 a week, but I still don't trust that I could even do 700 to be honest, and then i would be hit with a massive capital gains tax that would make it more like 550 a week gross. I would have to cut my hours at the store down to 20, so I don't know if I want to do this. Should I just get another part time job at a place like McDonald's just so i could make 500 a week while working 50 hours and not being hit by capital gains? or take the risk and try the radio station that may even pressure me to work weekends which would cut my schedule at the store down to 10-20 if that happened.

I want to work probably 50 hours a week while going to school.

What are you guy's opinions on what to do? I know how the economy is and how it is only going to get worse as time goes on, due to the inflationary policies.

[gls]

Working 50 hours a week while going to school seems like it might be taking on a bit much. Maybe you can get a few more hours at the grocery store or take some odd jobs on the side. I would forget about the radio station commission-only sales gig. Those seem to be the only kind of positions open these days and there's a reason why.

[Baptist]

Hey man, I'm going to tell you the best job to have while you are in school. I worked 70-80 hours a week while going to school full time when I got my associates. Since transferring to regular brainwashversity I've been working 32-40 hours a week.

Try to find a graveyard job at a hotel doing "night audit." I've done this at lots of hotels, and at a typical hotel you have 2 hours of actual work and 6 hours of sitting there doing nothing. This means that you get paid 6 hours to do homework. This means that you can work full time doing night audit while also going to school full time. Another cake job is graveyard security. Usually you sit around all night, and are required to make rounds every now and then. This means that you can do homework all night.

Trust me man. Try to get a night audit position at a hotel. You get paid to do homework. As long as you show up on time and never call in sick, your manager will love you. Tell them that you want to work night audit because it will allow you to get a few hours study time in.

BTW, from my experience all the Marriott brands have the shortest audit to run, it's like 1.5 hours of actual work. Hilton properties are longer and may be 3-4 hours of actual work. Local mom n' pop hotels could be an hour work, or could take all night. And I don't know if all Indian owners/managers are the same, but the ones who interviewed me told me that I would not be allowed to read or study at all. They said they would find something for me to do and keep me busy all night! So watch out for Indians who have uber work ethic and want to increase the bottom line!

[edit] if you do work graveyard, the only way you will be able to survive without having negative health effects is to have a strict schedule. If you can get 6-8 hours of sleep a day, and most importantly, on your nights off stay up all night. Do not sleep on your nights off. You have to be very strict about your sleep schedule or else you will be a wreck.

[John of Des Moines]

^^^ What Baptist said. ^^^

I'd include working at a retirement center (not a nursing home).

[squarepusher]

stay far away from radio station (no base) pay. in this economy, you will be working for free

[specialkornflake]

I worked nights at a copy shop from 11-7AM 5 nights a week during college. It's not something to mess around with, but it sounds like you already have a work ethic.

My advice is to try and start to get internships related to your field. Depending on your concentration, they can pay quite well too. By impressing my professors I was able to get a steady stream of internships and even choose between them. I'm in the computer technology field.

If you actually study 6 hours a night you might need to review your study habits...

[RJB]

Whatever you major in, DO NOT get a student loan.

No degree comes with a guranteed means of income.

However, the fact that the debt will be attached to you no matter how much you earn, will be guranteed.

[Acala]

You are not going to like my advice.

Forget any paper-pushing or major number-crunching jobs. There are not going to be any in a few years. Not in this country, anyway.

I advise acquiring a skill that will be in demand in a collapsing economy in which most people can barely afford the necessities of life. Skills that your next-door neighbor might need. Things like:

locksmithing
gunsmithing
home electrical
auto repair
medical
carpentry
roofing
appliance repair
sewing

and so on.

If you insist on something like accounting, try to lean toward small-business bookkeeping.

In any of these jobs you might be able to find paid apprentice positions in which you can actually earn some money while learning the trade.

I'm not saying this because I have some hostility towards a college education. I have some myself. But a new world is coming and the days when a college degree would get you a secure, lucrative position in the belly of the expanding corporate world are coming to an end.

[Arklatex]

Learn to garden and live at one in harmony with all of nature.

Best advice i can give.

[Michigan11]

You are not going to like my advice.

Forget any paper-pushing or major number-crunching jobs. There are not going to be any in a few years. Not in this country, anyway.

I advise acquiring a skill that will be in demand in a collapsing economy in which most people can barely afford the necessities of life. Skills that your next-door neighbor might need. Things like:

locksmithing
gunsmithing
home electrical
auto repair
medical
carpentry
roofing
appliance repair
sewing

and so on.

If you insist on something like accounting, try to lean toward small-business bookkeeping.

In any of these jobs you might be able to find paid apprentice positions in which you can actually earn some money while learning the trade.

I'm not saying this because I have some hostility towards a college education. I have some myself. But a new world is coming and the days when a college degree would get you a secure, lucrative position in the belly of the expanding corporate world are coming to an end.

Good post, I agree and I too have college as well, but chose to go into the trades. However the trades are changing dramatically as well, due to the changes in the economy. I see the medical field and the education field as bubbles waiting to burst here shortly, they haven't adjusted yet, as most other areas have been. My advice to the original poster would be to find out what interests you and read/study/experience it for yourself, and learn to listen to your instincts as guidance vs. the line of thought being fed upon you.

[Jordan]

Going against the conventional wisdom here...

Are you a people person? Are you quick on your feet?

If so, the sales position might not be that bad of an idea. Sure, you're not going to make a ton of money in a small town, but there is the opportunity. Good sales people are tough to find, but those that can SELL make huge amounts of money.

I see that you're getting a degree in Business Administration and having a sales background would be very nice for future potential employers/starting your own business.

Sales experience/ability transcends across all of business. If you can sell radio, you can sell insurance, you can sell $500,000 medical equipment, you can sell ice to eskamos. The list goes on and on.

I realize that I've rambled, but my point is that working at a supermarket is largely dead-end, whereas getting yourself acquainted with the art of actually SELLING something is experience you can take to any job/future business. And although commission doesn't seem like the best kind of pay scale, you're sure to be paid what you're worth. Good or bad.

My 2 cents.

[SouthGeorgia61]

Going against the conventional wisdom here...

Are you a people person? Are you quick on your feet?

no, and no


If so, the sales position might not be that bad of an idea. Sure, you're not going to make a ton of money in a small town, but there is the opportunity. Good sales people are tough to find, but those that can SELL make huge amounts of money.

I see that you're getting a degree in Business Administration and having a sales background would be very nice for future potential employers/starting your own business.

Sales experience/ability transcends across all of business. If you can sell radio, you can sell insurance, you can sell $500,000 medical equipment, you can sell ice to eskamos. The list goes on and on.

I realize that I've rambled, but my point is that working at a supermarket is largely dead-end, whereas getting yourself acquainted with the art of actually SELLING something is experience you can take to any job/future business. And although commission doesn't seem like the best kind of pay scale, you're sure to be paid what you're worth. Good or bad.

My 2 cents.

i know what you mean but i doubt it would work out and the hours they would request would basically mean i couldn't really go to college or find another part time job so it would be all or nothing and idk, meh

[John E]

I am 30 now and "self-graduated" high school early on and just worked my around and up to what most would considered a really good job with good benefits and salary.

I started off as a telemarketer and the experience was great but the commission depended on the project. Selling deregulated natural gas worked out well as it was a new and untapped market at the time and many business owners actually saved money. Selling toll free numbers when everyone and their brother had one landed absolutely nothing and it was an exercise in frustration. Mostly, it depended on the quality of the leads -- and that is not something in your control. Good leads cost money.

My advise here: take the gig during the summer semester when you have the extra time and limit yourself to 20 hours a week for about a month. You'll make next to nothing but a few weeks of this will be a good learning experience and a chance to get your feet wet and maybe make a few connections of your own.


As for college - right now the economy is in shambles. A friend of mine graduated not to long ago and the entire graduating class was unable to find any meaningful work. A lot of them ended up working minimum wage jobs at places like McDonalds just to pay off their student loans. Its not what I believe they expected to achieve with a college degree.

Despite the lack of jobs out there and the challenges of my friends graduating class -- I VERY STRONGLY recommend you TAKE ADVANTAGE of this opportunity by going to college and learning everything you can. If things are still this bad 4 - 6 years from now, then we're all screwed anway. If things are better by then, at least you have all the college you need under your belt and you had a chance to obtain it during a time where you would not be able to excel in the work place.

I don't know what you should go to school for. I'd stay away from any liberal arts type degrees -- those are the hardest to obtain work with I think.

[John E]

One other piece of advise I wish I had when I was a little younger:

* Don't be afraid to make friends with older and established people. You can meet a lot of them very easilly on forums like this one. Get to know some in real life and find out what they do and if they like it. If you ask nicely, maybe they can show you what they do and you'll have a chance to see if its a good fit for you.

* Learn to save and properly manage your money. I guess if your posting here you know the reasons for it but i've come to learn its not how much you make but what you actually do with your money.

* Learn the in's and out's of investing and taxes. When managing your money, you want to be in good clear legal standing at all times while investing wisely.

[LibForestPaul]

private security
repo
alarms

[Blueskies]

You are not going to like my advice.

Forget any paper-pushing or major number-crunching jobs. There are not going to be any in a few years. Not in this country, anyway.

I advise acquiring a skill that will be in demand in a collapsing economy in which most people can barely afford the necessities of life. Skills that your next-door neighbor might need. Things like:

locksmithing
gunsmithing
home electrical
auto repair
medical
carpentry
roofing
appliance repair
sewing

and so on.

If you insist on something like accounting, try to lean toward small-business bookkeeping.

In any of these jobs you might be able to find paid apprentice positions in which you can actually earn some money while learning the trade.

I'm not saying this because I have some hostility towards a college education. I have some myself. But a new world is coming and the days when a college degree would get you a secure, lucrative position in the belly of the expanding corporate world are coming to an end.

Engineers, lawyers, and doctors will always be in demand.

You might not be able to get anywhere with a BA in Philosophy or Sociology, but a electrical engineering degree >>>>>>>> some trade school certification.

The easiest way for a 20 year old to get the most amount of money for the fewest hours worked is to wait tables. Try to get a job as a waiter at a bar/restaurant and get yourself promoted to bartender and you'll make even more. It'll also teach you people skills which are invaluable.

[Pants]

I worked in radio for 15 years.. Not in sales but as an announcer, talk show host, producer, copywriter. I work now in Media Research. Stay away from radio. In my opinion the radio industry is dieing a slow painful death.


Engineers, lawyers, and doctors will always be in demand.

You might not be able to get anywhere with a BA in Philosophy or Sociology, but a electrical engineering degree >>>>>>>> some trade school certification.

The easiest way for a 20 year old to get the most amount of money for the fewest hours worked is to wait tables. Try to get a job as a waiter at a bar/restaurant and get yourself promoted to bartender and you'll make even more. It'll also teach you people skills which are invaluable.

[LibForestPaul]

Engineers, lawyers, and doctors will always be in demand.

You might not be able to get anywhere with a BA in Philosophy or Sociology, but a electrical engineering degree >>>>>>>> some trade school certification.

The easiest way for a 20 year old to get the most amount of money for the fewest hours worked is to wait tables. Try to get a job as a waiter at a bar/restaurant and get yourself promoted to bartender and you'll make even more. It'll also teach you people skills which are invaluable.

Engineers, enigneering is dead in America.
Doctors, plenty to import, don't forget PAs.
Lawyers, dime a dozen.

[constituent]

work study or hospital registration (go to a small town outside of your city), avoid night jobs while you're in school if at all possible. in fact, avoid night jobs altogether.

go into a science field (my best advice) like biotech laboratory methods or something along those lines, and find an internship through the department. my wife did that, got a high paying intern job and walked right into her post-graduate job w/ pharma. now she's looking at grad. school. there are many many very high paying jobs for those who get advanced degrees in the right field of study. the importance of finding that "right field of study" cannot be overstated.

the big thing is to study something that is in demand NOW, and get an internship. That's if you're going the college route (which as a general rule i advise against).

[MelissaWV]

work study or hospital registration (go to a small town outside of your city), avoid night jobs while you're in school if at all possible. in fact, avoid night jobs altogether.

go into a science field (my best advice) like biotech laboratory methods or something along those lines, and find an internship through the department. my wife did that, got a high paying intern job and walked right into her post-graduate job w/ pharma.

the big thing is to study something that is in demand NOW, and get an internship. That's if you're going the college route (which as a general rule i advise against).

Most of this, but I would add that if you are good at something obscure, do some research and see if there's money in it. Proofreading, for me, is a great job that I already did naturally (and annoyed the hell out of everyone with), and there really aren't that many people with skills in that area. I went to school with a guy who really wanted to run a funeral home. It seemed pretty strange, but frankly he's making excellent money, he doesn't mind the dead people, and that's distinctly one career with fairly good job security. You get the idea :)

[wgadget]

Most of this, but I would add that if you are good at something obscure, do some research and see if there's money in it. Proofreading, for me, is a great job that I already did naturally (and annoyed the hell out of everyone with), and there really aren't that many people with skills in that area. I went to school with a guy who really wanted to run a funeral home. It seemed pretty strange, but frankly he's making excellent money, he doesn't mind the dead people, and that's distinctly one career with fairly good job security. You get the idea :)

Yep. I'm a musician (pianist) with a pretty tight niche. The good thing about being a musician is that you don't work for one employer 40 hours a week. You hit the pavement looking for as many different employers as you can find. I work for a church on Sundays, two different ballet schools through the week and I am a self-employed piano teacher.

On the side I'm a Latin teacher (how many of THOSE are there?) for a private school.

My advice: DIVERSIFY, and the more obscure the better.

[Blueskies]

Engineers, enigneering is dead in America.

Tell that to all my buddies (I'm in college right now) that have guaranteed internships this summer paying $20 an hour at engineering firms in this country.


Doctors, plenty to import, don't forget PAs.
Lawyers, dime a dozen.

Yes, there are many lawyers and many doctors. In the future, they may not make the $500k salaries that they do now or did in the past.

But still, its much much harder to become a doctor or a lawyer than it is to become an electrician or a carpenter. It's basic supply and demand--you'll have more carpenters and more electricians than doctors and lawyers, so they'll get paid more.


That's if you're going the college route (which as a general rule i advise against).

Why? Do you know how difficult it is to get a decent job without a college degree? Even if the job doesn't necessarily require it, most employers won't even consider an application if the applicant doesn't have a degree.

Don't worry about the debt. We're headed for a period of high inflation and/or dollar devaluation. That means the debt gets eroded.

[MelissaWV]

Tell that to all my buddies (I'm in college right now) that have guaranteed internships this summer paying $20 an hour at engineering firms in this country.

Yes, there are many lawyers and many doctors. In the future, they may not make the $500k salaries that they do now or did in the past.

But still, its much much harder to become a doctor or a lawyer than it is to become an electrician or a carpenter. It's basic supply and demand--you'll have more carpenters and more electricians than doctors and lawyers, so they'll get paid more.

Why? Do you know how difficult it is to get a decent job without a college degree? Even if the job doesn't necessarily require it, most employers won't even consider an application if the applicant doesn't have a degree.

Don't worry about the debt. We're headed for a period of high inflation and/or dollar devaluation. That means the debt gets eroded.

... Wow.

$20/hour? That doesn't really say much without information as to where in the country that is. "Engineer" is also such a huge umbrella title that it is also meaningless to the discussion. There are some fields in which engineers are sought after, and some in which there are far too many already. It's rather like doctors.

Lawyers and doctors are in such huge supply because we've got such a massive specialization going on in this country. Look up how many pediatric neurologists there are in the entire nation, and take a guess at what their waiting rooms look like. This is part of the reason so many general practitioners come from abroad. People here prefer to specialize whenever possible.

Electricians and carpenters are not cheap if you want an extensive job done. Again, if you're specializing you're going to make more as long as you're in demand. Depending on what you're talking about, it may be more difficult to get all your paperwork and learning done for certain sorts of electrical work... than it is to become a family doctor.

It is difficult to get a job without a college degree in some fields. It isn't in others. A lot of advertisements for positions state "college degree required" quite boldly, but I'm still called in for an interview. The phrase "equivalent experience" is a very powerful one. Fields in which you can pass a skills test and demonstrate your proficiency to the company, or for which you can show up with a portfolio, are very quick to throw that "degree" requirement out the window if you're really right for the job. It's important to really examine what skills are required for the career you want, and to have honest answers as to where those skills originate. Are they skills you get on the job? Is it complex anatomical or mathematical knowledge which you're likely not going to stumble across anywhere but college?

Lastly, for pity's sake don't act like debt is no big deal. Getting along on your salary is enough of a challenge. Having to put away globs of money to pay for an education that may or may not be paying for itself now, once you've graduated, makes it much harder. What ends up happening is that a lot of responsible people think they "have enough" to pay off those loans, but they are going through life without a savings/investment plan, and they are living paycheck to paycheck (or worse). Debt should be kept to a very teeny minimum. You're going to end up paying twice for college with a full student loan, essentially. Think of what you (and your family, which might exist by that time) could do with that money instead.

[Blueskies]

... Wow.

$20/hour? That doesn't really say much without information as to where in the country that is. "Engineer" is also such a huge umbrella title that it is also meaningless to the discussion. There are some fields in which engineers are sought after, and some in which there are far too many already. It's rather like doctors.

To be fair, I go to UofM, which has one of the most elite engineering programs in the country. But I know many different kinds of engineers--mechanical, electrical, software, computer, nuclear, petroleum--and none of them have had any trouble finding work. Most of it is out of state, but they've all had consistent summer internships and job offers after graduation.

I, myself, had a job offer after graduation as a software engineer. But I changed fields because I couldn't stand the monotony of programming.


Lawyers and doctors are in such huge supply because we've got such a massive specialization going on in this country. Look up how many pediatric neurologists there are in the entire nation, and take a guess at what their waiting rooms look like. This is part of the reason so many general practitioners come from abroad. People here prefer to specialize whenever possible.

Electricians and carpenters are not cheap if you want an extensive job done. Again, if you're specializing you're going to make more as long as you're in demand. Depending on what you're talking about, it may be more difficult to get all your paperwork and learning done for certain sorts of electrical work... than it is to become a family doctor.

I laughed out loud at the bolded part. Have you ever met anyone that was going to med school or doing residency?

The average income of a family doctor is about $200k. The average income of an electrician is $50k. I don't need to say anything more.



It is difficult to get a job without a college degree in some fields. It isn't in others. A lot of advertisements for positions state "college degree required" quite boldly, but I'm still called in for an interview. The phrase "equivalent experience" is a very powerful one. Fields in which you can pass a skills test and demonstrate your proficiency to the company, or for which you can show up with a portfolio, are very quick to throw that "degree" requirement out the window if you're really right for the job. It's important to really examine what skills are required for the career you want, and to have honest answers as to where those skills originate. Are they skills you get on the job? Is it complex anatomical or mathematical knowledge which you're likely not going to stumble across anywhere but college?

While its true that you can get a job without a degree if you have good experience, the question is--how are you going to get that experience? This isn't 10 or 20 years ago. You simply cannot find an entry level job without a college degree. Even if you're a good interview and everything, you'll be competing against so many other people with degrees that you won't stand a chance. Its unfortunate, but its true. The only way to circumvent this is to have a strong connection with someone who happens to work there.



Lastly, for pity's sake don't act like debt is no big deal. Getting along on your salary is enough of a challenge. Having to put away globs of money to pay for an education that may or may not be paying for itself now, once you've graduated, makes it much harder. What ends up happening is that a lot of responsible people think they "have enough" to pay off those loans, but they are going through life without a savings/investment plan, and they are living paycheck to paycheck (or worse). Debt should be kept to a very teeny minimum. You're going to end up paying twice for college with a full student loan, essentially. Think of what you (and your family, which might exist by that time) could do with that money instead.

From 1970 to 1980 the dollar lost 1/2 of its value. If you owed a debt of 50k in 1970, you really only owed 25k by 1980. You're on this board, so you believe that we will experience some high inflation in the future. Thus, I'm serious--don't worry about the debt. I don't mean to rampantly abuse the credit cards, but taking out loans for college is a good investment and you won't even have to pay most of it back.

[MelissaWV]

...I laughed out loud at the bolded part. Have you ever met anyone that was going to med school or doing residency?

The average income of a family doctor is about $200k. The average income of an electrician is $50k. I don't need to say anything more....

While its true that you can get a job without a degree if you have good experience, the question is--how are you going to get that experience? This isn't 10 or 20 years ago. You simply cannot find an entry level job without a college degree. Even if you're a good interview and everything, you'll be competing against so many other people with degrees that you won't stand a chance. Its unfortunate, but its true. The only way to circumvent this is to have a strong connection with someone who happens to work there.

From 1970 to 1980 the dollar lost 1/2 of its value. If you owed a debt of 50k in 1970, you really only owed 25k by 1980. You're on this board, so you believe that we will experience some high inflation in the future. Thus, I'm serious--don't worry about the debt. I don't mean to rampantly abuse the credit cards, but taking out loans for college is a good investment and you won't even have to pay most of it back.

On the top part, I was talking about comparing an electrician who is specializing versus a general practitioner.


GENERAL MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS diagnose and treat physical and mental illnesses, disorders and injuries, recommend preventive action and refer patients to specialist medical practitioners.

How much money do General Medical Practitioners make?

Salary Table

Earnings/Weekly
$1250

Earnings/Yearly
$67500

Electricians Salaries
ELECTRICIANS assemble, install, test and maintain electrical equipment and components, domestic and commercial electrical appliances and equipment, and service and repair lifts.

How much money do Electricians make?

Salary Table

Earnings/Weekly
$805

Earnings/Yearly
$43470

Of course, those that work with special cases will charge you an arm and a leg and make way, way more than that. Knob & tube replacement comes to mind, and there are some electricians that specialize on that and other issues particular to older homes. The purpose of my statement was not to compare a regular electrician to a regular general practitioner. If it were the purpose, I would have written it as such.

Getting experience is nowhere near as dire as people make it out to be. I'm not sure where you're "this isn't 20 years ago!" comment comes from. I wasn't eligible to work 20 years ago. You likely weren't, either, based on the context clues in your posts. You can find an entry level position without a college degree in some fields that meet the criteria I discussed. You're studying to be an engineer. For perfectly valid reasons, people are not eager to hire "self-taught" engineers. Have you really explored the options out there, or are you just recycling a line :) There are a lot of good positions that require certifications rather than degrees. The test to become an insurance agent, in the states I'm familiar with at least, are pretty basic and don't have a college degree as a prerequisite. Commission is a nice bonus, but base pay can be just fine on its own. As you build a book of business, your pay goes up, your commissions grow, and you simply make more money. As an upside, you don't have any debt to worry about.

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion that going into debt is no big deal. People have been thinking that for a long, long time. It hasn't really paid off for most of them (unless they're in politics... then it's a way of life). :)

[Blueskies]

Where did you get that table? Every site I can find off google for average income of a GMP puts them around $150-200k.

As for getting experience, its hard to judge accurately how difficult it is to get a job with or without a college degree. I base my judgement on what I see. For example, my dad owns a company. He needs to hire a cold call sales person. Job requires no college degree. He advertises for the job and gets 40 applications within a week. 35 of them have college degrees. Guess who's going to select?


Of course, you're entitled to your opinion that going into debt is no big deal. People have been thinking that for a long, long time. It hasn't really paid off for most of them (unless they're in politics... then it's a way of life)

My opinion? Which of these facts do you disagree with?

1) We will see significant inflation in the next few years
2) Significant inflation erodes the value of debt

[MelissaWV]

Where did you get that table? Every site I can find off google for average income of a GMP puts them around $150-200k.

As for getting experience, its hard to judge accurately how difficult it is to get a job with or without a college degree. I base my judgement on what I see. For example, my dad owns a company. He needs to hire a cold call sales person. Job requires no college degree. He advertises for the job and gets 40 applications within a week. 35 of them have college degrees. Guess who's going to select?



My opinion? Which of these facts do you disagree with?

1) We will see significant inflation in the next few years
2) Significant inflation erodes the value of debt

On the debt issue, your points do not demonstrate an absolute disappearance of the debt. This means that there will certainly be something to pay off. This need to pay will come during a point in your life where you will be likely to be starting a family and facing things such as a wedding, or a first home, or a car purchase, etc.. The trouble with that is that those demands (plus the loan payments) will come at a time when you are not guaranteed a career whose pay will cover all of those things. In other words, you will still be out some money. College will not wind up being magically free. You are putting off payment without a guarantee of any sort of job.

Your dad is hiring people to cold call, and he has a bunch of people with college degrees. How many of them have loans to pay? How much does that job pay? How many of the applicants have families, and are stuck right now applying for jobs totally irrelevant to their field of study?

I never said "absolutely 100% never go to college." There are a lot of jobs where you'll NEED a degree. There are also a lot of careers where you don't need one at all, or where a four-year college can be replaced by a two-year program, or a certification. People don't look into these things as much, which is why there are certain career fields that are finding they can't get enough applicants, because people don't have the skills. That's a glorious thing for those people who DO take the time to look into unusual career paths, invest their efforts into following one, and reap the rewards :)

As for the table, I searched for it at work and I've arrived at home. I basically Googled and found a site with a long list of job categories, their descriptions, and average salaries. In all fairness, once I got home I started looking again... and I'm not sure what on earth these sites are based on. One told me my current job's "average pay" is $13.15/hr and tops off at $17.95/hr. I make considerably more than the "top" pay for my job, then? I have seen, now, some of the really high General Practitioner numbers, but I've also continued to see lower ones, too. In other words, I'm not the least bit sure I'm comparing apples to apples. I do know various people who are in the restoration business as electricians making well into six figures, but that's purely anecdotal.

Anyways... summary... you don't HAVE TO go to college, but be sure you can get away with not doing it before you let the chance pass you by, and please realize that any debt you're promising to pay later is money that's not in your pocket at that time.

[Acala]

Engineers, lawyers, and doctors will always be in demand.


Really? Not in this country. You are living in the past.

Engineers get paid by people who have money to invest in having things designed and built. They do this so they can sell those things to people who have money to buy them. Americans are not going to have the money to buy them so people are going to stop building them here. In fact, they already have to a large degree. When nobody can afford to buy new products, nobody will hire an engineer to design new products.

Lawyers are hired primarily by big business to fight with other big business or with accident victims about money. When there ain't no money to fight about, lawyers go hungry.

I think there IS a future in various medical professions, but in the long run it will be in the underground economy because the above ground medical business will be destroyed by government.

[squarepusher]

do what you like and are good at, excel at it, work that way.

[ChooseLiberty]

Do a channel check on the radio ad market before you take the job. Survey some likely businesses - maybe the ones you work for now.

Nothng happens until somebody sells something. The highest paid lawyers, investment bankers, management consultants and maybe engineers and MDs are essentially sales people with a few exceptions for extreme specialization.

Of course plumbers can charge out the wazoo for weekend emergencies, but they have to put up with a lot of sh*t. ;)

[ThePieSwindler]

I think higher education and the burden of student loan debt will be, if not the next bubble to burst, then at least a huge drag on consumer demand for the next decade. Yes, engineers will get jobs, but they will pay 50-60k a year with only a 401k plan with a smaller percentage match instead of 80k+ upon graduation. At least, this is my experience with engineering students I know who have managed to find jobs (alot, since I go to an engineering school). But lawyers are in for some shit - especially lawyers graduating from schools out of the top 12. Yet the loans are still just as big as at the top 12 schools in many cases. Most other majors are either not finding work or are severely underemployed, with loan payments making a very sizable proportion of their expenses. This is only going to get worse with each passing graduating class, as tuition costs continue to rise sharply and more and more people buy in to education as a way to "get ahead". Of course, education is fantastic, but when it costs many years of income from a decent paying job (which is not a given) to pay off, is it really worth it when you are underemployed? The OP is going the right route - a 2 year school and perhaps a bachelors in a technical field at a state school (its pointless to go into six figures of debt, no matter the school you attend).

Unfortunately, I am speaking out of a place of experience, as I will have 6 figures of debt with a good degree and perhaps even reasonable job prospects when I grauduate - yet in retrospect it was a terrible choice, regardless. Primarily, this is because I am succeeding at other ventures that have nothing to do with my major and would much prefer to go headlong into them. As such, I'd rather not have the ball and chain of student debt (since you can't ever get rid of it) around my neck. I might still have a successful job (though that is no certainty, while my current income is), but my disposable income would have been much greater post-graduation if I had gone to a lesser college.

While hyperinflation might be a possible future scenario, debt deflation is another precipice that could be tipped over if all the money printed stays in the hands of the bankers and doesn't reach the balance sheets of business or pockets of consumers. Debt is needed to provide capital to businesses (newer ones not already so heavily leveraged) but it is not getting out there to where it needs to go - it is staying in the hands of the gamblers and monetary confidence artists. Long term our fiat currency is doomed of course, but I dont think the end of the dollar will come till at least later in the decade, if not even later than that. High inflation might, but not hyperinflation.

[Acala]

The future is in the underground economy.

The aboveground economy will be taxed, regulated, and currency-shocked to death. The only place in the aboveground economy where a decent living might be had is in the government - and even that is doomed.

Think about what real people will REALLY need OFF THE RECORD and learn how to provide it. Real people are not going to need lawyers (I am one, by the way) or engineers, or CPAs or systems analysts, or management consultants, or investment bankers, etc.

[Blueskies]

This need to pay will come during a point in your life where you will be likely to be starting a family and facing things such as a wedding, or a first home, or a car purchase, etc..

My point is that you won't be able to get to this point in life if you don't go to college.

I'm 21 years old. I have a lot of friends that went to college, I have a lot of friends that didn't. I have about 10 friends that I speak to on a regular basis that didn't go to college. Of those, only one is able to support himself. He managed to find a job at a factory and work his way up to management. The other nine are still living at home with absolutely no hope of ever leaving. They work various dead end jobs like fast food, janitorial work, busing tables at a restaurant, stocking at a grocery store etc. or they're unemployed. They're not gaining skills. They're not meeting people that could help them. Quite simply, they're ****ed.

It's like the board game Life. Except now, if you chose the path of not going to college, you're stuck after three squares making minimum wage and living in your parent's basement.

We've literally evolved a society where if you don't get an education (I'm not differentiating here between university and trade school, both count, but I would say university is superior in general), 99% of the time, you can't advance in life.

If you go to college you may leave with debt. Maybe a lot of debt. Or maybe not so much debt if you know what you're doing--there are a lot of ways to get college paid for if you're resourceful.

And maybe, when you leave, you'll be paying a lot of your income to service student loans. But a $60k a year job paying off $100k of debt is better than a $15k a year job paying off no debt.

Can anyone give me an example of someone 18-25 that is able to support themselves without having gone to college, trade school, or was hooked up by their family?


Really? Not in this country. You are living in the past.

Engineers get paid by people who have money to invest in having things designed and built. They do this so they can sell those things to people who have money to buy them. Americans are not going to have the money to buy them so people are going to stop building them here. In fact, they already have to a large degree. When nobody can afford to buy new products, nobody will hire an engineer to design new products.

Lawyers are hired primarily by big business to fight with other big business or with accident victims about money. When there ain't no money to fight about, lawyers go hungry.

I think there IS a future in various medical professions, but in the long run it will be in the underground economy because the above ground medical business will be destroyed by government.

Assuming you're right, I'll still be better off with my degree.

Why? I'll leave the country. And foreign countries are going to be much more welcoming of an immigrant with a degree than one without.

[Baptist]

My point is that you won't be able to get to this point in life if you don't go to college.

I'm 21 years old. I have a lot of friends that went to college, I have a lot of friends that didn't. I have about 10 friends that I speak to on a regular basis that didn't go to college. Of those, only one is able to support himself. He managed to find a job at a factory and work his way up to management. The other nine are still living at home with absolutely no hope of ever leaving. They work various dead end jobs like fast food, janitorial work, busing tables at a restaurant, stocking at a grocery store etc. or they're unemployed. They're not gaining skills. They're not meeting people that could help them. Quite simply, they're ****ed.

It's like the board game Life. Except now, if you chose the path of not going to college, you're stuck after three squares making minimum wage and living in your parent's basement.

We've literally evolved a society where if you don't get an education (I'm not differentiating here between university and trade school, both count, but I would say university is superior in general), 99% of the time, you can't advance in life.

If you go to college you may leave with debt. Maybe a lot of debt. Or maybe not so much debt if you know what you're doing--there are a lot of ways to get college paid for if you're resourceful.

And maybe, when you leave, you'll be paying a lot of your income to service student loans. But a $60k a year job paying off $100k of debt is better than a $15k a year job paying off no debt.

Can anyone give me an example of someone 18-25 that is able to support themselves without having gone to college, trade school, or was hooked up by their family?



Assuming you're right, I'll still be better off with my degree.

Why? I'll leave the country. And foreign countries are going to be much more welcoming of an immigrant with a degree than one without.


Sorry man, I disagree. In 2006 I was single, owned a year-old house, year-old truck, and was able to pay all my bills just fine. I got to that point with zero college, and without keeping the same job for more than 3 years.

I will not explain why here, but I decided to go to college (got rid of house, truck, everything and basically started from scratch because I broke even on house and truck). I graduate this summer and my wife graduates next year from grad school in the medical field. If we could go back and do it all over again, we would not do the college route. College is a scam and "education" in this country is a joke.

When all is said and done, I believe that the most promising way to make money (over the course of a lifetime) in this country is to start working your butt off with a trade right out of high school, or at most going to a two-year college to learn a trade. If you live modest and start saving for retirement out of high school (even just 5%), I believe you have better odds of retiring with more money than college graduates with "good" jobs.

My wife is guaranteed to make 80k-120k IMMEDIATELY out of college (and after experience can double those wages). And we can live anywhere in the world because her skills are in such high demand. Combine her wages with any "good" job my degree will bring me, and I still think it would have been more worth it for us to both start working out of high school.

Bottom line is that college is a gamble. When all is said and done, there is no telling if it would have been worth it for you to go to college.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/CutCollegeCosts/IsCollegeWorthTheMoney.aspx

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/college/2009-08-31-how-debt-affects-your-outlook_N.htm


YouTube - John Stossel Is College Worth It? 20/20 ABC News (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl_24uSPedM)



[edit] If you are going to go to college, then I'd take Schiff's, Calente's and other's advice and learn a good trade, such as doctor, veterinarian, engineer, dentist, etc. But most kids in college, including myself, have worthless degrees in history, art, political science, sociology, communication, business, hospitality, management..... the list is endless.


Also read John Taylor Gatto's books on why college is a waste.

[Baptist]

Unfortunately, I am speaking out of a place of experience, as I will have 6 figures of debt with a good degree and perhaps even reasonable job prospects when I grauduate - yet in retrospect it was a terrible choice, regardless. Primarily, this is because I am succeeding at other ventures that have nothing to do with my major and would much prefer to go headlong into them. As such, I'd rather not have the ball and chain of student debt (since you can't ever get rid of it) around my neck. I might still have a successful job (though that is no certainty, while my current income is), but my disposable income would have been much greater post-graduation if I had gone to a lesser college.



Yeah, I agree. I'm only 30, and have been working full time since I was 15. When I look back at all the jobs I've had, and all the opportunities that came my way.... If I could go back and do it all over again, I would not do the college thing. Before I even reached 25-years-old I stumbled across half a dozen opportunities where I could have stuck with a job and taken it over someday, been trained and "learned the way" so that I could start my own business in the same field, or even worked for some really cool bosses who wanted me to stay and advance within the company. Because I'm an entrepreneur at heart, I even started and played around with two different businesses. No offense to anyone who is struggling, but in reality, I believe that anyone who 1.) has good work ethic, or 2.) has even the slightest inkling of entrepreneurialism in them, should be able to make it and thrive in this country with zero college education.

Looking back at all of it now, I believe that I when all is said and done, I would have been better off if I just picked a trade out of high school. I probably should have just worked a bunch of jobs until I was about twenty, so I knew what I liked and what I didn't like. By the time I was twenty I should have just picked a trade that I liked, and put every ounce of my effort into it.

[Blueskies]

College isn't a golden ticket. If you spend four years at an obscure private liberal arts college getting a degree in humanities, you better plan on attending grad school right away.

Same thing for kids that spend their summers relaxing at home. Internships, internships, internships.

But if you can't land a job with a college degree, how are you ever supposed to land one without one? That's my entire point.

[wgadget]

For the Biblical viewpoint, just before the passage regarding the "coming of the Lord," we have:

"Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody."

---1 Thessalonians 4:11-12

[Jordan]

Yeah, I agree. I'm only 30, and have been working full time since I was 15. When I look back at all the jobs I've had, and all the opportunities that came my way.... If I could go back and do it all over again, I would not do the college thing. Before I even reached 25-years-old I stumbled across half a dozen opportunities where I could have stuck with a job and taken it over someday, been trained and "learned the way" so that I could start my own business in the same field, or even worked for some really cool bosses who wanted me to stay and advance within the company. Because I'm an entrepreneur at heart, I even started and played around with two different businesses. No offense to anyone who is struggling, but in reality, I believe that anyone who 1.) has good work ethic, or 2.) has even the slightest inkling of entrepreneurialism in them, should be able to make it and thrive in this country with zero college education.

Looking back at all of it now, I believe that I when all is said and done, I would have been better off if I just picked a trade out of high school. I probably should have just worked a bunch of jobs until I was about twenty, so I knew what I liked and what I didn't like. By the time I was twenty I should have just picked a trade that I liked, and put every ounce of my effort into it.

I couldn't agree with the bolded section more.

Recipe for success: 2 parts hard work, 1 part thought work.

[FunkBuddha]

My advice is similar to suggestions others have offered. Please don't waste four plus years of your life busting your ass to get a degree in something you don't like. Find a job doing something you enjoy and then weigh your options as to how to move up. Would getting a degree in this area help you most or would you be better off busting your ass and mastering the trade?

I was fortunate in that I always knew what field i wanted to be in. I got a break when I was 19 to get my foot in the door and after a few years at the bottom I got noticed and I've moved way up in the organization. I'm 32 now and I'm almost as high up as I can go short of becoming management which I won't do (I'm a technical person.)

Another thing to keep in mind. My boss told me the other day at my review that he was going to put me in for another promotion not because I'm the best at what I do but because I'm not scared to get involved in projects involving skills that I don't have.

[MelissaWV]

@ BlueSkies but also in general

*shrugs* Personally, I have an excellent career path for which I didn't go to college. I've worked a variety of jobs, mostly because I got into a really stupid situation that has nothing to do with not having an education. When you get into a situation where you end up taking whatever job, because you're behind, then you're screwed. You keep working more, and more, and more to break even... and dreams of getting ahead feel pretty far-fetched.

I was glad to find myself in 2008 with very little debt (a few medical bills, an unpaid cable bill, an unpaid loan from a friend, a pledge to repay $100 in charity from a church; all of it came up to maybe $1000). I sat down and made an inventory of my skills, and I began looking into how I could use them. Lo and behold, I found a way. I got a steady job with insanely low pay, but I made it work, and I used my spare time to do freelance work. The freelance work did not pay for luxuries or any such stupidity. I did not take on any credit cards or loans. I remained debt-free.

Now, as I'm transitioning from the "steady" job to working on my own, I find myself with enough money to deal with any bills I have, and to cover a move to Canada which I'd been planning for quite some time :) My divorce is final, I believe. I'm not sure because I didn't waste time communicating with the guy, or playing drama games with him. I just left. I haven't wasted time partying, or bought myself oodles of clothing, or new shoes, and I've done my hair maybe once a year. The freelance jobs find their way to my Inbox with far less salesmanship on my part, because I have built up a reputation with people. I have enough spare time that I can dedicate some of it to campaign materials (free of charge).

I have money enough to replace a lot of the things I had to abandon when I moved in 2008. I am in love with someone whose work ethic is more impressive than mine. I have plans to get my two-year schooling/certification at a school for transcription training, in case I get bored just working from home. My typing speeds are off the charts, and my error rate is really great, so I'm going to try my hand at court reporting/closed-caption work. It's funny. Something like that very easily makes six figures, and a lot of the people in the field that are really good at it... are fast-approaching retirement age. I looked into it, and more importantly I looked into the jobs and workforce demographics around Toronto.

All it took was some time to take inventory of myself, my skills, my goals, and an evaluation of what was needed to fulfill them.

Of course, if I had student loans, I would have a degree in Marketing (like a whole lot of other people) and I'd probably be mucking around in a job that had little to do with that degree. I would have the student loans to pay back, which would stink even if I were doing the same freelance work. Having those loans would push away the two-year certification I just talked about. It would probably have eaten into my savings, which means I would be a little bit skimpy on furnishings, I guess, and likely get a much smaller apartment if I decided to move to Toronto. That's all guessing.

Instead, I'm comfortable with how my life turned out.

Not everyone needs a degree. Even though that's obvious, what too many people haven't asked themselves is "do *I* need a degree?"

[LibForestPaul]

The future is in the underground economy.

The aboveground economy will be taxed, regulated, and currency-shocked to death. The only place in the aboveground economy where a decent living might be had is in the government - and even that is doomed.

Think about what real people will REALLY need OFF THE RECORD and learn how to provide it. Real people are not going to need lawyers (I am one, by the way) or engineers, or CPAs or systems analysts, or management consultants, or investment bankers, etc.

Ditto and Ditto to past posts.

They will need security...The top 5% will spend alot to keep their stuff theirs. Not to mention the flip side "security" in quotes ...

[LibForestPaul]

I couldn't agree with the bolded section more.

Recipe for success: 2 parts hard work, 1 part thought work.

Pie in the sky thinking. People think they can achieve alone, you can't. The system is setup against you. I am sure many Russian Ph.D in Physics, EE, and other fields thought the same.

I repeat
engineering is dead! (My profession)
lawyers are a dime a dozen (from what I have read, since I was thinking of switching)
doctors are on their way out (from friends who were told by doctors it might be better elsewhere) and my personal belief, since National Healthcare is coming.

Money will be in government, quasi-government, banking, and certain health care professions.

[MelissaWV]

.

Pie in the sky thinking. People think they can achieve alone, you can't. The system is setup against you. I am sure many Russian Ph.D in Physics, EE, and other fields thought the same.

I repeat
engineering is dead! (My profession)
lawyers are a dime a dozen (from what I have read, since I was thinking of switching)
doctors are on their way out (from friends who were told by doctors it might be better elsewhere) and my personal belief, since National Healthcare is coming.

Money will be in government, quasi-government, banking, and certain health care professions.

Documentation and litigation-prevention are still winners ;)

[Baptist]

/bump because I'm interested in other people's opinions on college degrees/jobs.


Mel WV, are you going to become a Canadian citizen? If so how long is the process? Why Canada over U.S.? Just curious because for the past few years I've been checking out other countries because we may bail the U.S.

[MelissaWV]

/bump because I'm interested in other people's opinions on college degrees/jobs.


Mel WV, are you going to become a Canadian citizen? If so how long is the process? Why Canada over U.S.? Just curious because for the past few years I've been checking out other countries because we may bail the U.S.

I am probably going to end up becoming a citizen, barring some sort of really strange fluke. The process is a little different for me, because I have someone who's sponsoring me into the country, significant savings, and various jobs. You can go on their website and fill out the questionnaire they have to let you know what your chances are.

The total process takes a few years, but you can be a permanent resident before that, and prior to that as an American visiting you can spend 6 months there with no real problems, or you can get a work permit.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/EnGLIsh/citizenship/become-eligibility.asp

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.asp

I had already fallen in love with Toronto and its proximity to family members in Buffalo, plus the employment opportunities in the area. The weather is delightful (to me, at least; I love seasons!) and it's a big city with fewer "big city problems" than some of the others I considered. Once I'd decided on Toronto, I happened to meet a really great guy who was living there, and all the pieces fell into place :)

Thankfully, being a self-employed person in an area of "cultural activities" qualifies me to come in under that category, even if my boyfriend dumps me tomorrow.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/self-employed/apply-who.asp

[Jordan]

.

Pie in the sky thinking. People think they can achieve alone, you can't. The system is setup against you. I am sure many Russian Ph.D in Physics, EE, and other fields thought the same.

I repeat
engineering is dead! (My profession)
lawyers are a dime a dozen (from what I have read, since I was thinking of switching)
doctors are on their way out (from friends who were told by doctors it might be better elsewhere) and my personal belief, since National Healthcare is coming.

Money will be in government, quasi-government, banking, and certain health care professions.

Go ahead and give up then. Makes no difference to me.

[Acala]

My point is that you won't be able to get to this point in life if you don't go to college.

My own experience is as follows: I worked whenever I could from the time I was sixteen. Then, when I graduated High School I went to the University. After bouncing around from one major to another, I got a degree in Psychology. It was a total waste. Thousands of dollars down the drain and I literally ended up digging ditches.

So I went back to college and got my degree in chemistry. That got me out of the ditches and into an air conditioned building, but I was still making substantially LESS than I had been making years earlier as an odd job guy for a construction contractor.

Read that over. TWO colleege degrees, one in a technical field, and I was making less than I had made as a flunky for a construction company.

It wasn't until I went back AGAIN and had finished law school that I made more than I did as a kid in construction. And that is plain fact. And here is some speculation to go on top of it. I worked my ass off at that construction job and was smarter than most of the guys in the company. So I would have moved up and made plenty. No doubt in my mind. Would I have made as much as I ended up making at the mega law firm in Los Angeles? On an hourly basis- yup.

Another fact: there are tons of college grads who do not use their degrees. And there were tons of lawyers I knew who could not find jobs as lawyers.

And here is some more speculation: everything that is true about the economy and job market today is not going to be true ten years from now.

Ever read the book "The Millionaire Next Door"? The typical self-made millionaire isn't the college-educated guy. It is the guy who learned a trade, started his own business, and made it work.

You have your mind set on a college degree. Fine. I understand. But it is a path fraught with peril. You would be wise to listen to some people who have been through it and some people who have studied the results statistically. Universities are busy raising their fees as we speak. It will cost you a small fortune to get your piece of paper. Be real, REAL certain that it is a sensible investment.

And while I agree that inflation is going to eat us alive, don't discount the possibility that the government will protect the banks by indexing outstanding loans to inflation. Remember who your Congressman cares about. (hint: it isn't you).

If you really expect flight to another country to be an option, pick the country now and learn the language while you are in school.

Enough from me.

Good luck

Edit: all that edumacation and I spelled "okay" wrong! Ahahahaha! You should ignore everything I say!

[Blueskies]

It wasn't until I went back AGAIN and had finished law school that I made more than I did as a kid in construction. And that is plain fact. And here is some speculation to go on top of it. I worked my ass off at that construction job and was smarter than most of the guys in the company. So I would have moved up and made plenty. No doubt in my mind. Would I have made as much as I ended up making at the mega law firm in Los Angeles? On an hourly basis- yup.

Nah, you'd probably be unemployed. Do you know how construction companies are doing right now?

When did you work construction? During the bubble 2002-2007? Its not surprising that you made a lot.

I had a family member who started a home construction company around 2000. Was a millionaire by 2004. Now completely bankrupt, 30 employees gone and company no longer in existence.


Ever read the book "The Millionaire Next Door"? The typical self-made millionaire isn't the college-educated guy. It is the guy who learned a trade, started his own business, and made it work.

How many people are capable of being an entrepreneur? Not a lot, probably less than 5% of the population. I know people who run small businesses. It's a lot of hardwork, there are no set hours, there is no guaranteed paycheck. It's not for most people. If you happen to be in that 5%, good for you. Go for it and don't look back. But throwing out the advice "start your own business" to everyone is idiotic because the vast majority of people just aren't capable of doing it.


You have your mind set on a college degree. Fine. I understand. But it is a path fraught with peril. You would be wise to listen to some people who have been through it and some people who have studied the results statistically. Universities are busy raising their fees as we speak. It will cost you a small fortune to get your piece of paper. Be real, REAL certain that it is a sensible investment.

I'm actually not paying a dime for my college education because I'm a good student and I know what I'm doing. It's not that hard to get other people to pay for your college if you have the grades. The only thing I pay for is room and board, which I afford with my part time job at a restaurant. I'm going to graduate without a cent of debt.

If I didn't go to college I don't know what I'd be doing. I'd probably be doing what all my other friends that didn't go to college are doing--working dead end jobs at fine companies like White Castle, Target, and 7-11 and living with my parents. I think I'll pass.

EDIT: I'm also not getting a joke degree like psychology. Seriously lol. You can't do a damn thing with that degree unless you go to grad school. The best case scenario with a bachelor's of psych is to work in some government clinic for $20k a year.

[Acala]

Nah, you'd probably be unemployed. Do you know how construction companies are doing right now?.

Badly. But don't think they are the only ones who are going to eat it.


When did you work construction? During the bubble 2002-2007? Its not surprising that you made a lot..

Lol! 1974-1975. Commercial construction. And, by the way, that was a recession.


I'm actually not paying a dime for my college education because I'm a good student and I know what I'm doing. It's not that hard to get other people to pay for your college if you have the grades. The only thing I pay for is room and board, which I afford with my part time job at a restaurant. I'm going to graduate without a cent of debt...

Sounds like you know what you are doing. I hope it works out for you.


If I didn't go to college I don't know what I'd be doing. I'd probably be doing what all my other friends that didn't go to college are doing--working dead end jobs at fine companies like White Castle, Target, and 7-11 and living with my parents. I think I'll pass....

Lots of paths other than college and burger flipping. But you have your mind made up so have at it and best of luck.


EDIT: I'm also not getting a joke degree like psychology. Seriously lol. You can't do a damn thing with that degree unless you go to grad school. The best case scenario with a bachelor's of psych is to work in some government clinic for $20k a year.

Yup. Or digging ditches. Been there.

Just a word of caution for you, my confident friend. Accounting will be a joke degree too, when there are no bones to count. Remember old Acala told you so.