What's The Difference Between A Libertarian And A True Conservative?

[SevenEyedJeff]

Rush Limbaugh was annoyed with the idea of Ron Paul winning the CPAC straw poll, saying that we need a true conservative rather than a libertarian. He never explains the difference between the two. The only difference I can see is that apparently you need to be a warmonger to be a true conservative these days.:rolleyes:

I'm afraid that a collapse is the only way we will get out of the current predicament. The "true" conservatives will only slightly cutback spending, will start more wars or keep the current ones going, and the path we are currently on is a dead end. Only a true libertarian will make the massive spending cuts we need, but the public will never figure it out.

[The Patriot]

Rush Limbaugh was annoyed with the idea of Ron Paul winning the CPAC straw poll, saying that we need a true conservative rather than a libertarian. He never explains the difference between the two. The only difference I can see is that apparently you need to be a warmonger to be a true conservative these days.:rolleyes:

I'm afraid that a collapse is the only way we will get out of the current predicament. The "true" conservatives will only slightly cutback spending, will start more wars or keep the current ones going, and the path we are currently on is a dead end. Only a true libertarian will make the massive spending cuts we need, but the public will never figure it out.

Most people I know who claim to be ultra conservatives are libertarian in everything but name. I think the libertarian ideology is prominent among the rank and file of the GOP is larger then the MSM gives credit for.

[Indy Vidual]

What's The Difference Between A Libertarian And A True Conservative?

The Freedom to experiment with pot and other "victimless crimes."
Abortion rights
Immigration theories
and, yes, more actual spending cut-backs instead of just talk.

[charrob]

Rush Limbaugh was annoyed with the idea of Ron Paul winning the CPAC straw poll, saying that we need a true conservative rather than a libertarian.

radio talking head warmongers are not true conservatives (while libertarians are). --what he meant to say to his listening audience was:

"saying that we need a true neoconrather than a libertarian.

[Arklatex]

i'd say a major polarizing factor is the definition of "social conservative"

to some that means conservative in the libertarian sense, as in freedom of the individual to decide how he lives, as the constitution suggests.

to others they like to control others on social issues like gay marriage, pot and what not. Think huckleberry, he likes federal government interference in peoples lives on social issues, let the king decide for all type of thing. To these they think that means being a conservative.

The libertarians are correct though according to the Constitution. It gives no federal authority for the feds to get involved in social issues, instead it calls for a republic. All these social issues fall under the 10th amendment so the states and the local people decide how they wish to govern on these personal social issues like religion, education, marriage etc.

Which is more Republican? That's for us, the people, to determine.


The other polarizing factor I'd say is of course foreign policy. Besides for these two factors i'd say they are almost one in the same philosophically. Both want low taxes and freedom of choice in all other areas.

[AParadigmShift]

radio talking head warmongers are not true conservatives (while libertarians are).

I've never met a libertarian who would refer to themselves - at least with a straight face - as "conservative" :confused:

While there are many things to laud trueconservatism* for, it is, at its heart, not libertarianism. And distilling both down to their purest, conservatism is the power of the state, while libertarianism is not.

*An adherence to constitutional principles, a non-interventionist foreign policy, respect for individual Rights et al.

And I would also note, that this trueconservative ideal, at least as it plays itself out in the political arena - though ideologues abound - is more a myth, a one-off, a rarity than not.

[Dreamofunity]

What he means is someone who likes to kill brown people and control people at home.

Rush means warmongering social conservatives.

[Golding]

Not very much difference.

Neoconservatives are simply trying to capture the term. It's been building up in usage, I've noticed, and I doubt neocons want to largely be recognized as the false conservatives that they are.

[BillyDkid]

I'm not sure what conservatism means, really, anymore. In my life time it has always meant reactionary social authoritarianism and militarism. For my money both the conservative/liberal, left/right dialectics do nothing but serve the existing paradigm and only re-enforces the status quo, directing the energy of people in harmless directions preventing the possibility of real change for the better. The Ron Paul movement has allowed people to begin to think out of the box and to recognize that there is another way to look at things. To me there is only collectivism and individualism and there is only liberty and self ownership or the opposite of those things. Libertarianism is based on clearly defined principles. Neither conservatism nor progressivism are as far as I can tell.

[AuH2O]

I've never met a libertarian who would refer to themselves - at least with a straight face - as "conservative" :confused:

While there are many things to laud trueconservatism* for, it is, at its heart, not libertarianism. And distilling both down to their purest, conservatism is the power of the state, while libertarianism is not.

*An adherence to constitutional principles, a non-interventionist foreign policy, respect for individual Rights et al.

And I would also note, that this trueconservative ideal, at least as it plays itself out in the political arena - though ideologues abound - is more a myth, a one-off, a rarity than not.

I am a libertarian who calls himself a conservative. In fact, I far prefer the label to libertarian. And I don't agree one bit that "pure conservativism" is the power of the state.

[nate895]

A true conservative will agree with a libertarian on almost every issue when it comes to the Federal government. The only thing they might disagree on is the size of the military, with a conservative favoring a larger (though not much larger) size than a libertarian. A libertarian might be opposed to any standing military force at all.

On a state/local level, the true conservative will favor more traditional values such as prohibition of abortion, marriage protection of some variety (that could mean that courts only uphold marriage contracts between a man and a woman, even if the government isn't directly involved), and religious values and rituals practiced with the promotion of the state, even if the conservative is an atheist/agnostic (a Cicero-type conservative). Drugs would also be limited in a conservative society, but not necessarily banned completely.

[AParadigmShift]

I am a libertarian who calls himself a conservative.

Okay.

And Beltway-type libertarians believe in flat and fair taxes, justify the erosion of civil liberties, have no problem embracing this war or that war, on and on, ad infinitum. . .

;)

But, they're not really libertarians, are they?



In fact, I far prefer the label to libertarian. And I don't agree one bit that "pure conservativism" is the power of the state.

Conservatism is the conservation of the state, and we may take that to mean in its present form.

And we've seen this played out, over and over again. From the embrace of Cold War statism to the "War on Terror", from various social crusades to the "War on Drugs", from. . .

It is fact that the overwhelming majority of those who color themselves "conservative" demand the coercive power of the state to enforce their value set, to uphold their tradition, to maintain their hierarchical class structure.

That such "conservatives" may see themselves from time-to-time as libertarian is true, but never is the inverse.

[Annihilia]

From what I understand, libertarianism is actually true liberalism.

In the early 20th century, the conservative label was attached to the "outdated 19th century ideals" of classical liberals after the progressives declared themselves to be the actual liberals.

More recently we saw a splinter group of progressives, the neoconservatives, take for themselves the term "conservative". Unfortunately, the general public now equates conservatism with neoconservatism. Trying to label yourself a True Conservative is damage control at best. Most people don't even care to know the difference.

I personally find that the philosophy of liberty has no home in either conservative or liberal labels anymore. Libertarians are libertarians. If I could choose to take back one label for liberty, it would actually be "liberal".

[Agorism]

I think militarism is the primary difference.

[Icymudpuppy]

I call myself a pro-peace, fiscal conservative, social liberal.

In other words, get the government out of other countries, my wallet, and my bedroom.

[AParadigmShift]

From what I understand, libertarianism is actually true liberalism.

Absolutely.

When you're discussing things of a political nature with your bent left friends, never miss an opportunity to remind them that you're the only real liberal in the room. It makes for interesting conversation.

Some present-day liberals are taken aback to learn that they're roots are Jeffersonian, free-market, limited gov't and individual Rights; and conversely, some Republicans are horrified that their beginnings are made of bigger-govt, progressive tinkering and mercantilism - all things Hamiltonian.

What an odd study history is. . .


In other words, get the government out of other countries, my wallet, and my bedroom.

That's it, in a nutshell, isn't it?

;)

[AuH20]

Paleoconservatives are more misanthropic and community-centric than pure libertarians. Other than that, there really isn't a major gap in their beliefs.

[nate895]

Paleoconservatives are more misanthropic

Very true. Conservatives take a negative view of the nature of man, and from there develop their system. Libertarianism, traditionally, takes a positive view of the nature of man and builds their system from there. That is why a conservative is not for a pure free market and totally unregulated personal life (although the state isn't necessarily the one regulating). That is anathema to us because we find human nature to be negative at best and vile at worst. A libertarian generally takes the position that man's nature is good, and that any bad that comes from humanity is from purely external sources.

This is why the whole "nature vs. nurture" debate doesn't make any sense from a truly conservative point-of-view. Since conservatives find human nature to be flawed, even if something like homosexuality was found to be "nature" and not "nurture," that wouldn't change our opinion that it is a moral wrong and not to be sanctioned in any manner, but rather penalized in some manner. In fact, if anything, proving it to be part of human nature might make us look at in more of a bad light.

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

The term "conservative" first showed up in opposition to FDR's usurpation.
The difference between "conservative" and "libertarian" is that all the "true conservatives" like Rush can do is oppose; libertarians like Ron Paul have solutions.
Let's play the word game. We can have a lot of fun with it.

[nate895]

The term "conservative" first showed up in opposition to FDR's usurpation.
The difference between "conservative" and "libertarian" is that all the "true conservatives" like Rush can do is oppose; libertarians like Ron Paul have solutions.
Let's play the word game. We can have a lot of fun with it.

First of all, the first use of the term was in 1819. Two, this is just what logicians like to call "poisoning the well."

[dgr]

Look, we social conservatatives, haven't had a clue as to what the GOP means by conservatative, since George Bush was president. WE just call Bush lovers' "true believers"
premptive war people neo cons, if not in office and too stupid to be in office if they are.
And the one area where we are truly on the same side
, some of us want to stand screaming in the streets" EXCUSE ME PEOPLE BOTH PARTIES ARE SELLING OUT AMERICIANS AND THE US AS PART OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER , THAT MEANS WTO, UN, WMF, AND THE FED CONTROL GOVERMENT NOT YOU THE VOTER" if you don't believe the news, have you read Revelations lately.
There is a world of difference between a conservaatative form of goverment and social conservatativism

[Natalie]

I am a libertarian who calls himself a conservative. In fact, I far prefer the label to libertarian. And I don't agree one bit that "pure conservativism" is the power of the state.

Yeah, I also never say I'm a "libertarian." I say I'm a conservative, or that I believe in small government or something like that. I think once you say say you're a libertarian, it kind of closes the door to political conversation with people who consider themselves Democrats or Republicans. Its better to talk about the issues, instead of labels.