[WARNING: Explicit Language] What Black Conservatives Have to Deal With...

[clb09]

Imagine these guys times 10,000,000 in the "black community".

No wonder black conservatives don't exactly advertise themselves! :rolleyes:

YouTube - Black Republicans / Conservatives & Fox News Firing Dr. Marc Lamont Hill (Part 2 of 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOo1nT2_uJ4)

[dannno]

Well the guy has a point about Hannity and Limbaugh..

Of course that's assuming it's actually true.

[jmdrake]

Black conservatives catch it coming and going. I've lost track of all of these senseless arguments I've had here at RPF with regards to race. Everything from some idiots wanting to deny that a black man invented peanut butter, to people who want to re-fight the civil war on the internet to people getting mad because I don't think David Duke is the best spokesman for liberty. If I wasn't 100% sure about Ron Paul being a champion for all people I'd be gone a long time ago.

[johngr]

Gid rid of welfare, restore freedom of association and freedom of contract (including land covenants), give it 50 years and the ones that survive and aren't in prison will make Alan Keyes look like Ted Kennedy.

[Vessol]

I understand the fact that a lot of blacks are born into a bad position, especially urban youth which really have to struggle to not stay on the streets.

However the "my people" thing needs to stop. I'm Irish, I'm proud of my Irish heritage. But I don't call the Irish "my people". Dividing ourselves out does not work, we must acknowledge our heritage, but not live on it solely or identify it solely.

My mom used to say it best "You're not African American, you're an American, damnit"

[jmdrake]

Racially restrictive covenants impinge on the freedom of association. It's stuff like that which you'll never get black conservatives to agree to and give people like the talk show hosts in the OP fodder to attack black conservatives with. If you want to win over blacks push what Ron Paul did at the Tavis Smiley debate, especially with regards to the drug war:

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/special/forums/candidates/paul.html
A system designed to protect individual liberty will have no punishments for any group and no privileges. Today, I think inner-city folks and minorities are punished unfairly in the war on drugs.

For instance, Blacks make up 14 percent of those who use drugs, yet 36 percent of those arrested are Blacks and it ends up that 63 percent of those who finally end up in prison are Blacks. This has to change.

We don't have to have more courts and more prisons. We need to repeal the whole war on drugs. It isn't working.

We have already spent over $400 billion since the early 1970s, and it is wasted money. Prohibition didn't work. Prohibition on drugs doesn't work. So we need to come to our senses.

And, absolutely, it's a disease. We don't treat alcoholics like this. This is a disease, and we should orient ourselves to this. That is one way you could have equal justice under the law.

As for Alan Keyes? He's a moron who thinks Ron Paul is "pro choice" and that the war in Iraq is a righteous cause. We don't need a bunch of black neocons.

[jmdrake]

I understand the fact that a lot of blacks are born into a bad position, especially urban youth which really have to struggle to not stay on the streets.

However the "my people" thing needs to stop. I'm Irish, I'm proud of my Irish heritage. But I don't call the Irish "my people". Dividing ourselves out does not work, we must acknowledge our heritage, but not live on it solely or identify it solely.

My mom used to say it best "You're not African American, you're an American, damnit"

So I take it you don't celebrate St. Patrick's day or wear a shirt that says "kiss me I'm Irish". ;) Politics used to be divided among ethnic lines (Irish versus German versus Polish etc) until the PTB decided to push the "melting pot" mythos. But blacks were left out of that mythos. While I'm cool with that, it's the reason why there's still a sense of "my people" when it comes to blacks.

YouTube - Schoolhouse Rock - The Great American Melting Pot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWJ4udW41Ns)

And no I'm not just talking about who sleeps with who. In an earlier post someone talked about real estate covenants. How many covenants existed into the 1960s aimed at Irish? And how likely would such a covenant exist when most whites in this country are a mixture of different European elasticities?

[ctiger2]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2761/4379440523_36a403650c_o.jpg

[Cowlesy]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2761/4379440523_36a403650c_o.jpg

Met this guy. Wayne Brady --- he is great!!

He has a radio show people should tune into at blogtalkradio.com

I have his business card at home and will post the address later.

He's from Detroit, and has spoken at several tea parties especially in some rural areas.

Nice guy!

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Yeah, its tough being a black conservative. Not so tough being a black libertarian.

[Peace&Freedom]

Those who inject race into political topics fall into two groups--those tribalists who truly believe it is relevant to identify the 'black' position and hold it up as the only pro-black view compared to the 'racist' white view, and those who are straight up manipulating race to demonize the opposition (e.g., calling the tea parties racist). They do this partially because they've never thought of doing politics any other way than anchoring people to either skin or party.

One mark of the latter group is that they are more 'sensitive' about alleged racial incidents than many blacks are. As a past subscriber to Paul's newsletters, I've mentioned to some liberal people that I did not think the comments in them were really racist---and received icy stares as if I'm not with the monolithic 'black' program, and therefore not 'sufficiently' black.

The tribalist true believers in this divide do so because they conflate being racially conscious with being race-centric or 'black-oriented', and view the two as one and the same. So a black taking a position that does not put race at the center of everything is viewed as a betrayal, as well as a denial of reality, because they think the person is not even conscious of race.

Talking to both groups about how politically inclined folks are being distracted into a left-right paradigm or a white-black paradigm by the establishment is presenting an alien concept to them. The tribalists don't want to let go of the white/black puppet show, and the race manipulators don't want to let go of their tactic as it helps them protect the left/right puppet show. The anger at black conservatives comes from them being uncomfortable with those who have decided to live paradigm-free.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Those who inject race into political topics fall into two groups--those tribalists who truly believe it is relevant to identify the 'black' position and hold it up as the only pro-black view compared to the 'racist' white view, and those who are straight up manipulating race to demonize the opposition (e.g., calling the tea parties racist). They do this partially because they've never thought of doing politics any other way than anchoring people to either skin or party.

One mark of the latter group is that they are more 'sensitive' about alleged racial incidents than many blacks are. As a past subscriber to Paul's newsletters, I've mentioned to some liberal people that I did not think the comments in them were really racist---and received icy stares as if I'm not with the monolithic 'black' program, and therefore not 'sufficiently' black.

The tribalist true believers in this divide do so because they conflate being racially conscious with being race-centric or 'black-oriented', and view the two as one and the same. So a black taking a position that does not put race at the center of everything is viewed as a betrayal, as well as a denial of reality, because they think the person is not even conscious of race.

Talking to both groups about how politically inclined folks are being distracted into a left-right paradigm or a white-black paradigm by the establishment is presenting an alien concept to them. The tribalists don't want to let go of the white/black puppet show, and the race manipulators don't want to let go of their tactic as it helps them protect the left/right puppet show. The anger at black conservatives comes from them being uncomfortable with those who have decided to live paradigm-free.

Amen. Truthful words right there.

[jmdrake]

Those who inject race into political topics fall into two groups--those tribalists who truly believe it is relevant to identify the 'black' position and hold it up as the only pro-black view compared to the 'racist' white view, and those who are straight up manipulating race to demonize the opposition (e.g., calling the tea parties racist). They do this partially because they've never thought of doing politics any other way than anchoring people to either skin or party.

One mark of the latter group is that they are more 'sensitive' about alleged racial incidents than many blacks are. As a past subscriber to Paul's newsletters, I've mentioned to some liberal people that I did not think the comments in them were really racist---and received icy stares as if I'm not with the monolithic 'black' program, and therefore not 'sufficiently' black.

The tribalist true believers in this divide do so because they conflate being racially conscious with being race-centric or 'black-oriented', and view the two as one and the same. So a black taking a position that does not put race at the center of everything is viewed as a betrayal, as well as a denial of reality, because they think the person is not even conscious of race.

Talking to both groups about how politically inclined folks are being distracted into a left-right paradigm or a white-black paradigm by the establishment is presenting an alien concept to them. The tribalists don't want to let go of the white/black puppet show, and the race manipulators don't want to let go of their tactic as it helps them protect the left/right puppet show. The anger at black conservatives comes from them being uncomfortable with those who have decided to live paradigm-free.

Well there's the 3rd view you left out. Those who think race is still a relevant factor to understanding what's going on in our country. That's the category I would put Ron Paul's comments that I quoted about the disproportionate effect of drug laws on blacks. And that's how I dealt with the racist newsletter comments. Dr. Paul denied writing them and I take him on his word on that. And I can't imagine a white supremacist saying that drug laws were unfair to blacks. In fact early on when I brought this point up on this and other forums, resident white supremacists accused me of lying and putting words in Dr. Paul's mouth even though I was merely giving direct quotes and providing links.

[Captain Shays]

Maybe if people of African decent who align more with Classical liberal views become more specific in their designation pointing out that they are more Constitutionally and fiscally conservative and socially liberal it might help. Just like all other people whether from Hispanic ancestry or European ancestry we have ALL been hoodwinked and need a good cleansing and re-education. I find myself educating people every day in Constitutional principles and an understanding of foreign policy based in neutrality which of course they have always learned was "isolationist".
Many people of African decent are morally conservative and no one needs to tell them that the war on drugs has hurt them disproportionately to others with other colors of skin. No one needs to tell them that they have fought and died in wars that have little or nothing to do with them. What they need to understand (just like the rest of us) is who exactly is behind the war on drugs, and who is behind the wars that we shouldn't have fought and died in and who is behind the massive debt and the inequities in our financial structures. I know from talking to black people that many of them truly believe that Republicans (or conservatives) are for big business and Democrats are for the little guy. Of course the more we learn the more we realize that is a bunch of crap but America not only blacks need to find out the truth.

I cannot convey how grateful I am for the people of African decent who have seen the light because it's going to be they who get the message out to others with their skin color. I also cannot convey what a huge responsibility it is and how important it is that you do it. I try but my skin color is too light to be taken seriously by many black people but I have met a lot who are coming around and I have opened the eyes of a few myself but with others I can tell that they think I might be a nice guy, with good intentions and they smell me out and I pass the smell test so I ain't a racist, but since I'm a pale face, I just will never get it. I will never understand their suffering. That may be true but their suffering doesn't matter because they aren't really suffering except in their own minds since they have been convinced all their lives that they are victims and "white people" are the victimizers.

Everyone has their angle by which we must approach them. With hard core Democrats no matter what their ancestry and with hard core Republicans no matter what their ancestry (I have encountered MANY black neocon Republicans) one needs to take an approach that is tailored specifically to their concerns. Foreign policy is usually the best place to begin dispelling their twisted notions. Democrats are still hung up on "Bush lied and people died" and with the war in Iraq. So, when I encounter them, I make sure to point out that it was Democrats who were the party in power during the start of most of the wars in the 20th century. With Republicans I point out the same thing but also point out that policing the world and unconstitutional wars are really Democratic practices.

All that said, I must admit that I am largely clueless as to how people of African decent feel about this country, "white people" and the history related to all of the above from their viewpoint.

[TheEvilDetector]

Melanin is a chemical with powerful political properties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin

[jmdrake]

Good comments! Recently at an MLK day rally I pushed the liberty agenda by passing out DVDs. A white friend of mine helped me in the effort.

See: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2551753&postcount=12

Nobody wants to face a potentially hostile crowd on their own. But sometimes just having one other person to back you up can make all of the difference in the world. And it doesn't matter if the person backing you up looks exactly like you or thinks exactly like you. At least that's been my experience. So if you have any pro liberty friends of a darker hue, team up with them and hit the beachfront together.


Maybe if people of African decent who align more with Classical liberal views become more specific in their designation pointing out that they are more Constitutionally and fiscally conservative and socially liberal it might help. Just like all other people whether from Hispanic ancestry or European ancestry we have ALL been hoodwinked and need a good cleansing and re-education. I find myself educating people every day in Constitutional principles and an understanding of foreign policy based in neutrality which of course they have always learned was "isolationist".
Many people of African decent are morally conservative and no one needs to tell them that the war on drugs has hurt them disproportionately to others with other colors of skin. No one needs to tell them that they have fought and died in wars that have little or nothing to do with them. What they need to understand (just like the rest of us) is who exactly is behind the war on drugs, and who is behind the wars that we shouldn't have fought and died in and who is behind the massive debt and the inequities in our financial structures. I know from talking to black people that many of them truly believe that Republicans (or conservatives) are for big business and Democrats are for the little guy. Of course the more we learn the more we realize that is a bunch of crap but America not only blacks need to find out the truth.

I cannot convey how grateful I am for the people of African decent who have seen the light because it's going to be they who get the message out to others with their skin color. I also cannot convey what a huge responsibility it is and how important it is that you do it. I try but my skin color is too light to be taken seriously by many black people but I have met a lot who are coming around and I have opened the eyes of a few myself but with others I can tell that they think I might be a nice guy, with good intentions and they smell me out and I pass the smell test so I ain't a racist, but since I'm a pale face, I just will never get it. I will never understand their suffering. That may be true but their suffering doesn't matter because they aren't really suffering except in their own minds since they have been convinced all their lives that they are victims and "white people" are the victimizers.

Everyone has their angle by which we must approach them. With hard core Democrats no matter what their ancestry and with hard core Republicans no matter what their ancestry (I have encountered MANY black neocon Republicans) one needs to take an approach that is tailored specifically to their concerns. Foreign policy is usually the best place to begin dispelling their twisted notions. Democrats are still hung up on "Bush lied and people died" and with the war in Iraq. So, when I encounter them, I make sure to point out that it was Democrats who were the party in power during the start of most of the wars in the 20th century. With Republicans I point out the same thing but also point out that policing the world and unconstitutional wars are really Democratic practices.

All that said, I must admit that I am largely clueless as to how people of African decent feel about this country, "white people" and the history related to all of the above from their viewpoint.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Maybe if people of African decent who align more with Classical liberal views become more specific in their designation pointing out that they are more Constitutionally and fiscally conservative and socially liberal it might help. Just like all other people whether from Hispanic ancestry or European ancestry we have ALL been hoodwinked and need a good cleansing and re-education. .

Aint that the truth.

[silus]

Imagine these guys times 10,000,000 in the "black community".

No wonder black conservatives don't exactly advertise themselves! :rolleyes:

YouTube - Black Republicans / Conservatives & Fox News Firing Dr. Marc Lamont Hill (Part 2 of 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOo1nT2_uJ4)
I think some people sadly make the mistake that black people have a hard time being conservative. THEY DO NOT. Black people have a hard time when they try to align themselves with the right wing establishment, with neo-conservatives, with the republican party. With the extreme religious, good old boy, southern secessionist tinged elements. With talk show hosts that do little but exploit and incite conflict for ratings.

When we talk conservatism, that means inherently there is no necessary attachment to particular individuals or groups, and rather you stand by conservative ideals and values. Which makes it clear that your motive is absolutely not to align with certain people for other more personal reasons. Black people have no problem with people that truly stand for conservative principles. And lets just be clear that conservatism does not have to include war, gays, abortion and god.

[Peace&Freedom]

Well there's the 3rd view you left out. Those who think race is still a relevant factor to understanding what's going on in our country. That's the category I would put Ron Paul's comments that I quoted about the disproportionate effect of drug laws on blacks. And that's how I dealt with the racist newsletter comments. Dr. Paul denied writing them and I take him on his word on that. And I can't imagine a white supremacist saying that drug laws were unfair to blacks. In fact early on when I brought this point up on this and other forums, resident white supremacists accused me of lying and putting words in Dr. Paul's mouth even though I was merely giving direct quotes and providing links.

It's correct to speak to the issue, but bringing up or being aware of race as a relevant factor is not the same thing as making it the eye of the storm for everything, or using it as a club to beat up the other side. Perhaps I should have qualified things to say I was talking about people who improperly inject race into politics belonging to the tribalist and manipulative camps.

[TheEvilDetector]

I think the referal to skin colour is useless. Colour of your skin should carry as much political weight as the number of freckles on your right butt cheek.

"We do not get liberties because we are hyphenated americans, we get them because we are individuals"

The line above is what Ron Paul has said recently.

[BlackTerrel]

A couple things... the old school conservatives like Pat Buchanan were/are racist. That's why I would never use the term "conservative" to define myself. People immediately think of old white dudes reminiscing about how great things were back in the 50's. And I don't identify with most who call themselves "conservative".

Ron Paul is about freedom, he's about less government, he's about less taxes, stopping police harassment, against intervention, etc.. - that's what I identify with.

[BlackTerrel]

Met this guy. Wayne Brady --- he is great!!

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=why+do+white+people+like+wayne+brady+so+much&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=c26c79a56c95bda8

[clb09]

When we talk conservatism, that means inherently there is no necessary attachment to particular individuals or groups, and rather you stand by conservative ideals and values. Which makes it clear that your motive is absolutely not to align with certain people for other more personal reasons. Black people have no problem with people that truly stand for conservative principles. And lets just be clear that conservatism does not have to include war, gays, abortion and god.


I agree with what you say here but imagine the reaction if you were to say it at a function such as this one:

YouTube - Tavis Smiley "State of the Black Union" Farrakhan Speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiEKS5iPtDs&feature=PlayList&p=D12861361F791C68&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=32)

Note the reaction from the audience. That tells me that logic may not be too appreciated at functions such as this one.

[dannno]

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=why+do+white+people+like+wayne+brady+so+much&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=c26c79a56c95bda8


...Why do white people like Wayne Brady so much?

Because he makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcom X :D


Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch :mad:??


YouTube - Wayne Brady Terrorizes Dave Chappelle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bONBlJNt0I0)

[jmdrake]

I agree with what you say here but imagine the reaction if you were to say it at a function such as this one:

YouTube - Tavis Smiley "State of the Black Union" Farrakhan Speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiEKS5iPtDs&feature=PlayList&p=D12861361F791C68&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=32)

Note the reaction from the audience. That tells me that logic may not be too appreciated at functions such as this one.

Are you sure about that? While not a big fan of Farrakhan, everything he said in this video has been advocated by some group here at RPF at some point or another. I've heard ancaps express the hope that the current federal system would collapse on itself so that something else could emerge. And Farrakhan ended his speech advocating the position that we all needed to get beyond race, that the same "covenant" could help all races (haven't read the covenant so I don't know), that everyone should "humble themselves and pray" and that the elitists who are running everything are headed for hell anyway.