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Danke
02-18-2010, 10:55 PM
Rest in Peace, Mr. Stack

Earlier today, a victim of the largest extortion racket in the
world struck back, giving up his life in the process. The control
freaks, and their propagandists who pretend to be "reporters," will
no doubt spend the next few weeks demonizing the man, or painting
him as crazy. You can decide for yourself if this was the case. As
best I can tell, today Joseph Stack burned down his house, and then
crashed his plane into the Austin, Texas offices of the IRS. We
don't need to ponder the reason, because he told us why, in a
suicide note, which can be read here:

<http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24783.htm>

I found reading the note very disturbing, mainly because Mr. Stack
was obviously far more intelligent, and more in touch with reality,
than the vast majority of Americans. In other words, compared to
the deluded masses of conformists, Mr. Stack was the sane one.
Several statements in his suicide note show that he had overcome
the authoritarian statist indoctrination far more than most people
ever will. Does the following sentiment sound familiar?

"We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no
society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this
country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our
dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all.
We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this
place ... I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning
that crap from only a few years of my childhood." [Joseph Stack,
2/18/2010]

A lot of you will find aspects of Mr. Stack's personal story
disturbingly familiar. I see no need to parse every sentence of it,
though I would urge everyone to read it all, carefully. What would
drive a rational, intelligent man to do such a thing? Of course,
the control freaks and their propagandists will paint Mr. Stack as
a nutcase, and will claim that his actions, by themselves, prove
that he was insane.

But they don't. They prove he was desperate, and frustrated, and
that he was willing to GIVE UP HIS LIFE to try to resist injustice.
And THAT is the part the parasite class does NOT want people to
think about. They will paint him as a "mentally unstable" "tax
cheat," or apply to him whatever other labels they think might make
people not want to THINK about what Mr. Stack did, and why.

Now comes the controversial, uncomfortable part. Several people
have already asked me whether I approve of what Mr. Stack did. Any
good, unthinking obedient serf would immediately blurt out, "Of
course not!" In short, though I am saddened that the world had to
lose Mr. Stack in the process, and though there are alternatives I
would have much preferred, yes, generally I have to praise him for
what he did. I'm not about to emulate him, nor would I suggest that
anyone else do so, but he had the courage to do something about the
injustice he saw, and that puts him ahead of 99.99% of the
population.

So far, I have heard about a couple of injuries, and one person
unaccounted for, at the crash site. So at the moment, as far as I
know, Mr. Stack is the only one who died in the crash. I don't know
whether that was his intent or not. In other words, I don't know if
he intended to destroy only property, or to kill people as well. As
far as mere property, if someone found a way to destroy every IRS
computer, every IRS building, every IRS vehicle, firearm, every bit
of property used by the federal extortion racket, without hurting
any people, I would without hesitation cheer, loud and long. (I'd
like it even more if someone took it all, and gave it to the people
who were robbed to pay for it in the first place.)

But the question of taking human life is far more serious. At this
point, most writers would quickly add, "I would NEVER condone
violence against law enforcers!" Not me. Violence is justified when
used in an attempt to stop an aggressor--one who initiates
violence. And the politician scribbles called "laws" have no effect
on that. IRS employees, from CID down to the paper-pushers, are
CONSTANTLY initiating violence, every time they levy a bank
account, or swipe someone's home, or send threatening letters
(i.e., "pay up or we'll do nasty things to you"). It is their job
to use violence, and threats of violence, to take property from
those to whom it rightfully belongs.

Most do it without thinking, and I doubt any of them accept any
personal responsibility for their actions. "Hey, I'm just doing my
job." Yeah, you and the Nazi SS. But this is the problem that the
"authority" myth creates: a bunch of brain-dead authoritarian
jackasses, day after day, terrorize, extort and rob millions and
millions of people. The people are then left with a choice: go
after the unthinking bureaucrats whose main sin is being blindly
obedient, or allow injustice to continue. Neither option is
pleasant. Apparently Mr. Stack chose the former.

I'll have more to say about this later, but today, let me leave you
with two excerpts from "The Iron Web" which are disturbingly
appropriate to what happened today:

Excerpt 1: "Real life isn't like the movies. In the movies, the bad
guy is always so obviously evil that when he dies, in some
spectacular finale, everyone stands up and cheers. That's not how
it works in real life. In real life, the people who have to be
killed to protect the innocent are hardly ever truly evil
themselves. Instead, their sin is usually just being stupid, and
doing what they're told. That's all. ... The state uses violence
for everything it does. Every law is a command, and if anyone
disobeys, force is used to make them comply. And good people don't
want to resist. Even if they don't like the law, even if they think
it's unjust, the last thing they want to do is kill some poor pawn
who is just doing what he was told. It would be so much easier if
only evil people committed evil, but through the belief in
'authority,' otherwise good people routinely become agents of evil.
Even the atrocities of Hitler's regime, Stalin's regime, and all
the others, were the result of a few truly evil people, and
thousands upon thousands of merely obedient people. The real
villains aren't stupid enough to go to the front lines themselves.
That's what compliant subjects are for. But the result is that the
good people of the world are left with a choice: either allow evil
to occur, or kill people who are merely misguided or ignorant. Most
people choose the first option, and mankind has suffered
unspeakable horrors because of it."

Excerpt 2 (from a different character): "You have to understand,
this was bound to happen. The parasites have been making this
monster for decades, and now it's broken free. It's not about
whether I think it's good. I don't. But I think it's inevitable.
It's like some poor dog that's been beaten since it was a puppy.
Mostly it just cowers and whimpers, always in fear. Then one day,
it snaps and rips its master's throat out. Those IRS paper-pushers
have been emptying peoples' bank accounts, taking their homes, and
ruining lives for years and years. The zoning bureaucrats, the
inspectors and regulators--they've all been pushing people around
for decades, and it all adds up. As long as the cogs in the machine
felt comfortable obeying orders, they went right on doing it. Their
victims had no recourse, so they just put up with it. Well, now all
their frustrations are coming out as hatred and a desire for
revenge. When people are oppressed, humiliated and tormented for
all their lives, even if only a little at a time, and even if they
barely notice, it builds up inside them. It's like a poison the
body can't get rid of. It builds up and builds up, until something
breaks."

Today, something broke. Mr. Stack, rest in peace.

Anti Federalist
02-19-2010, 12:00 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Ballad-Carl-Drega-Vin-Suprynowicz/dp/0967025923

puppetmaster
02-19-2010, 12:03 AM
as I have said before....the IRS has destroyed many families and many people and this does not include the overseas casualties of war

Athan
02-19-2010, 12:05 AM
I agree with Chuck Baldwin. I wish he didn't kill himself. I believe his decision for violence is where he failed intellectually. I think the IRS sons of bitches didn't just break his piggy bank but also broke his spirit.

Austrian Econ Disciple
02-19-2010, 03:42 AM
I agree with Chuck Baldwin. I wish he didn't kill himself. I believe his decision for violence is where he failed intellectually. I think the IRS sons of bitches didn't just break his piggy bank but also broke his spirit.

So the IRS steals everything you have and you can't fight back? Woe is me, here I thought defending your property was a legitimate use of force....I guess since its the IRS (Oh no), its taboo. The State is above us common folk.

psi2941
02-19-2010, 04:22 AM
Joe Stack +1

Kludge
02-19-2010, 05:21 AM
Stack is dead: I have no opinion on him. No innocent lives were lost and some will almost certainly not be saved of death at the hands of the US govīt, indirectly because of what Stack has done. I hope the foreign media will see Stack as more than a crazy man and that this may cause some people to see the US government as a coercive and unwelcome occupier instead of a legitimate organization with authority of its citizens. I also canīt help but hope to see more of this.

-- uh, not that I encourage it, because, uh.... itīs bad -- like assassinating the president: bad. Very bad, in fact.

Petar
02-19-2010, 05:22 AM
Anyone who is condoning this mans decision is serving the enemies cause.

We need to condemn his immoral action in order to continue to effectively fight the enemy.

Bman
02-19-2010, 05:38 AM
So the IRS steals everything you have and you can't fight back? Woe is me, here I thought defending your property was a legitimate use of force....I guess since its the IRS (Oh no), its taboo. The State is above us common folk.

Fighting back? He slammed a plane into a building that contained other people, thus violating their property. This action was cowardly and disgusting to say the least.

It doesn't matter how upset or valid this guys points may be for being upset. It gave him no right to take human life.

akforme
02-19-2010, 05:40 AM
Anyone who is condoning this mans decision is serving the enemies cause.

We need to condemn his immoral action in order to continue to effectively fight the enemy.

I don't condone his actions but I'm more bothered that our government drives it's citizens to this extreme.

Bman
02-19-2010, 05:42 AM
I don't condone his actions but I'm more bothered that our government drives it's citizens to this extreme.

Good luck trying to control that message.

Petar
02-19-2010, 05:46 AM
I don't condone his actions but I'm more bothered that our government drives it's citizens to this extreme.

Yeah, it's really sad, isn't it...

One thing is for sure, the IRS has done infinite times more damage to the USA than this fool has...

webstar
02-19-2010, 06:30 AM
Joseph Stack had contributed $500 to the Ron Paul for President campaign.

http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/fecimg/?28931046803

Petar
02-19-2010, 06:50 AM
Joseph Stack had contributed $500 to the Ron Paul for President campaign.

http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/fecimg/?28931046803

And so what?

The only thing that proves is that he was not a complete moron...

GunnyFreedom
02-19-2010, 07:05 AM
Joseph Stack had contributed $500 to the Ron Paul for President campaign.

http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/fecimg/?28931046803 (http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/fecimg/?28931046803)

Joseph Robert Stack who is a CPA, did donate $500 to RP's campaign on 12/12/07. Joseph Andrew Stack who despised CPA's and crashed an airplane into the IRS because of his irrational hatred for CPA's, did not. These are two different people with two completely different backgrounds.

webstar
02-19-2010, 07:09 AM
thanks for clearing that up. I have no doubt that we will be hearing lots about this fellow in the coming days.

GunnyFreedom
02-19-2010, 07:15 AM
thanks for clearing that up. I have no doubt that we will be hearing lots about this fellow in the coming days.

We should correct this disinformation as early and as often as possible, before it grows into something ugly.

Bman
02-19-2010, 07:22 AM
We should correct this disinformation as early and as often as possible, before it grows into something ugly.

Thanks for that heads up Gunny. You had to know that certain types were going to be trying to tie this to the liberty movement.

GunnyFreedom
02-19-2010, 07:30 AM
Thanks for that heads up Gunny. You had to know that certain types were going to be trying to tie this to the liberty movement.

Thank CivilRadiant for jumping on the spot early to give us a heads-up that this was coming, and thank JoshLowry for locating the proof that it was a different guy. Because of them and their quick work, we were able to jump ahead of the disinformation campaign. I hope everybody who sees this captures a copy of the refutation, and will quickly post it in reply to any attempt to spread this lie.

A. Havnes
02-19-2010, 07:39 AM
That's really sad. We lost a good man in the process, and I wonder if anything good is going to come of his sacrifice. I can just see the smear job now...

I don't think he should have killed himself, but I agree that it's terrible how our government can push people to do those kinds of things.

Petar
02-19-2010, 07:51 AM
That's really sad. We lost a good man in the process, and I wonder if anything good is going to come of his sacrifice. I can just see the smear job now...

I don't think he should have killed himself, but I agree that it's terrible how our government can push people to do those kinds of things.

A good man?

The guy was a terrorist...

And one good thing that will come from this "sacrifice" is the fact that one less psycho is walking around liable to hurt (relatively) innocent people...

Bman
02-19-2010, 07:56 AM
That's really sad. We lost a good man in the process, and I wonder if anything good is going to come of his sacrifice. I can just see the smear job now...


Sacrifice? You're out of your mind. This was a senseless lash out that needs to be condemned.

Sacrifice does not and never will equate to unforced suicide and murder.

tmosley
02-19-2010, 08:00 AM
A good man?

The guy was a terrorist...

And one good thing that will come from this "sacrifice" is the fact that one less psycho is walking around liable to hurt (relatively) innocent people...

The founders made it policy to attack and drive out the king's tax collectors. Anyone who violently fights the government isn't a terrorist. It is the GOVERNMENT that is the organization full of terrorists.

paulitics
02-19-2010, 08:05 AM
That's really sad. We lost a good man in the process, and I wonder if anything good is going to come of his sacrifice. I can just see the smear job now...

I don't think he should have killed himself, but I agree that it's terrible how our government can push people to do those kinds of things.

"WE?" Who's we? Speak for yourself there buddy. He may be part of your mentally unstable world, but he aint part of mine.

The man was no hero, he was a psycho nutjob who took his anger out on innocent people and killed them. And the blowback from incidents like this, as well as fucked up comments like yours will only hurt us.

He was an enemy of the patriot movement, and this is clear as day to anyone who loves liberty, and hates sick people who murder innocent lives.

Kludge
02-19-2010, 08:18 AM
As much as I appreciate the disorder caused by bureaucracy, I canīt imagine a reasonable justification for claiming an IRS employee as innocent.

angelatc
02-19-2010, 08:19 AM
Whatever. He also took absolutely no responsibility for the failures of his own businesses, and seemed to obsess for more than 20 years over the fact that he couldn't cheat on his taxes any more because he was now classified as an employee.

I hate the IRS and all their paperwork. I think a lot of small businesses are killed by the fact that the business owners can't start out small - they need to earn at least $5,000 every quarter to hire somebody just to keep up with the IRS paperwork and filing requirements.

But millions of small businesses do manage to do it. It's fine to recognize that the system is horrid, impersonal and entirely unfair to the people who actually produce anything, but not everything that went wrong in his life was the fault of the government.

angelatc
02-19-2010, 08:21 AM
A good man?

The guy was a terrorist...

And one good thing that will come from this "sacrifice" is the fact that one less psycho is walking around liable to hurt (relatively) innocent people...

Terror is just war by the poor.

Petar
02-19-2010, 08:29 AM
Terror is just war by the poor.

The legitimate definition of terrorism is the killing of civilians for a political cause.

qh4dotcom
02-19-2010, 02:10 PM
As much as I appreciate the disorder caused by bureaucracy, I canīt imagine a reasonable justification for claiming an IRS employee as innocent.

Reminds me of the former IRS agent Sherry Peel Jackson who says on her website "I did well as an IRS agent. As a matter of fact, it was the best job that I ever had."

http://sherrypeeljackson.com/

Don't get me wrong, I want her to be set free and appreciate everything she does to oppose the IRS...just wish she would delete and apologize for that statement. Ruining people's lives shouldn't be the best job you've ever had.

Old Ducker
02-19-2010, 02:15 PM
Joseph Stack had contributed $500 to the Ron Paul for President campaign.

http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/fecimg/?28931046803

Joseph R. Stack, a CPA, donated 500 to Ron Paul.

Joseph A. Stack, flew a plane into an IRS office.

Capisce?

Dunedain
02-19-2010, 02:19 PM
I know many people do not condone violence in any way and Joe Stack's actions were no exception. Perhaps tactically it wasn't a smart move, but perhaps it was - I reserve judgement.

What i'm interested in hearing is: WHEN do we start fighting back? What's the purpose of the 2nd amendment if not to preserve the ability to use armed resistance against the government when they take your property (or life)? At what point do citizen's cries for justice need to be enforced? THEY can use deadly force against US to take our money but WE can't use deadly force against THEM when they steal it?

Austrian Econ Disciple
02-19-2010, 05:02 PM
"WE?" Who's we? Speak for yourself there buddy. He may be part of your mentally unstable world, but he aint part of mine.

The man was no hero, he was a psycho nutjob who took his anger out on innocent people and killed them. And the blowback from incidents like this, as well as fucked up comments like yours will only hurt us.

He was an enemy of the patriot movement, and this is clear as day to anyone who loves liberty, and hates sick people who murder innocent lives.

I'll ask this again. How are people who work for the IRS not our enemy?

Danke
02-23-2010, 07:33 PM
Feb 22, 8:21 PM EST

To some, suicide attack on IRS made pilot a hero

By JEFF CARLTON and IAN MACDOUGALL
Associated Press Writers

DALLAS (AP) -- Flames were still shooting from the building when the suicide pilot who crashed his plane into the IRS office in Austin was being hailed in some corners as a hero who struck a courageous blow against the tyranny of the U.S. tax code.

While most Americans surely see Joseph Stack as an angry, misguided man whose final act was repugnant, his suicide mission has clearly tapped a vein of rage among anti-tax, anti-government extremists.

The way they see it, "he did the ultimate flipping of the bird to the man," said JJ MacNab, a Maryland-based insurance analyst who is writing a book about tax protesters. "He stuck it to the man, and they love that."

It is not surprising Stack would be portrayed as a hero on fringe Web sites such as stormfront.org, a forum for white supremacists. But admirers also are expressing their appreciation on mainstream sites such as Facebook, where a fan page supporting some of the things he said in his six-page manifesto had more than 2,000 members Monday.

Stack, 53, left behind a rambling, 3,000-word screed in which he ranted about his financial reverses, his difficulty finding work in Austin and his hatred of big business. Mostly, though, he focused on his clashes with the IRS, including one after he failed to file a tax return because he said he had no income. Stack traced his problems to a 1986 change in the tax code affecting software contractors like him.

In Texas, Republican gubernatorial candidate Debra Medina told a San Antonio radio station last week she did not sympathize with Stack, but that his act reflected "the hopelessness many in our society feel."

"There is a sense in all of our country that we are not on the right path," she said.

Asked whether she considered her father a hero, Stack's adult daughter, Samantha Dawn Bell, said during a telephone interview broadcast Monday on ABC's "Good Morning America": "Yes. Because now maybe people will listen." But she stressed that his actions were "inappropriate."

Later, though, in an interview with The Associated Press in Norway, where she lives, she said she does not consider her father a hero. She said she understands her father's animosity toward a "faulty" and "unbalanced" American tax system. But she said he should have found "a completely different way" to address it.

"Write letters - that's what he should have done, rather than actually doing what he did," she said.

Threats against IRS employees have steadily increased in the past five years, climbing from 834 in fiscal 2005 to 1,014 threats in 2009, according to J. Russell George, the Treasury Department's inspector general for tax administration.

"The new commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service has made it clear, and rightfully so, that people who owe the IRS money should pay the money they owe," George said. "That activity, coupled with the economy as well as a general sense of unease, have caused people to react in ways we all hoped they would not."

Since the attack, security has been tightened at IRS offices across the country, he said.

IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman, who joined U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner in a Monday meeting with employees who were inside the building when Stack flew into it, said employees would "continue to serve their country and the nation's taxpayers with dignity and respect."

"An act like this won't get in the way with us doing our job," Shulman said.

Geithner read a letter of support from President Barack Obama. "I think all Americans owe them their support and their encouragement in this time of tragedy," Geithner said afterward.

Mark Potok, a director at the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks white supremacists and other hate groups, said the attack on the IRS has been endorsed by extremists even more enthusiastically than the shooting rampage last June at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington that left a security guard dead.

"I think Joseph Stack has tapped into a very deep vein of rage against the government," he said.

On one Internet thread full of praise for Stack, one person wrote that he must "suppress the urge to take flying lessons."

Pensacola, Fla., pastor and radio host Chuck Baldwin wrote on his Web site that he wished Stack had not died "because we need each other." He added: "My heart goes out to Joe Stack! The sentiments expressed above are shared by millions of Americans who are also fed up with Big Brother."

Larken Rose, a 41-year-old Pennsylvania man who served a year in prison for willful failure to file an income tax return, said he does not consider the IRS employee killed in the attack and the man's injured co-workers to be innocent victims.

"I don't know how many people they harassed or how many houses they had stolen or how many bank accounts they had swiped," he told the AP. Stack's letter "shows quite obviously he was not crazy. He was frustrated. He had been wronged over and over."

The IRS kept a master list of tax protesters until 1998, when a change in the law prevented the agency from tracking them. MacNab estimated there are more than 500,000 tax protesters today, the vast majority of whom do not file tax returns.

"There are people who sympathize with this crime and turn the criminal into a hero," said Fathali Moghaddam, a psychology professor at Georgetown University. "At tax time, what better authority figure to hit than the tax man?"

Moghaddam also said the ease and anonymity of the Internet have helped bring like-minded zealots together.

"It may be that 50 years ago, there would be 200 people who would like to express support for this kind of action but they couldn't, because there was nobody in their neighborhood to connect with," the professor said.

Stack has not been linked to any specific political philosophy or party, though his anti-government views are sometimes espoused by Tea Party members in Texas who have supported Medina's surprising run against Texas Gov. Rick Perry and Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison.

Phillip Dennis, a leader of the 15,000-member Dallas Tea Party, disavowed any connection to Stack.

"We never advocate violence and overthrow of the government," Dennis said. "We have a framework to solve problems, and that framework does not include flying airplanes into buildings."

What Stack did do, Dennis said, was "tap into some people's anger with a large and growing government, a government that doesn't listen to the people."

The family of Vernon Hunter, the longtime IRS employee and father of six who was killed in the suicide attack, rejected any suggestion Stack was a hero.

"People say (Stack) is a patriot. What's he a patriot for? He hasn't served the country," said Hunter's son, Ken Hunter. "My dad did two tours of Vietnam and this guy is going to be a patriot and no one is going to say that about my dad?"

---

Ian MacDougall reported from Oslo; Associated Press writers April Castro and Jim Vertuno contributed to this report from Austin.

specialkornflake
02-23-2010, 07:53 PM
If you fight against the state with violence you run the real risk of it growing stronger.

Anti Federalist
02-23-2010, 07:54 PM
The founders made it policy to attack and drive out the king's tax collectors. Anyone who violently fights the government isn't a terrorist. It is the GOVERNMENT that is the organization full of terrorists.

+1776

Sam Adams was a terrorist. :rolleyes:

Anti Federalist
02-23-2010, 07:58 PM
<snip> rambling, 3,000-word screed <snip>

I've read his letter.

I didn't think it was "rambling".

Then again, I don't think Ron Paul's presidential campaign was "quixotic" either.

AParadigmShift
02-23-2010, 08:21 PM
seemed to obsess for more than 20 years over the fact that he couldn't cheat on his taxes any more because he was now classified as an employee.

Despite what the IRS claims and the media triumphs, the 16th Amendment did not grant Congress any new powers of taxation. It did not empower gov't, carte blanche, without apportionment, to impose a direct tax on the majority of workaday Americans.

16th Amendment income is derived solely from corporate activities, it is an excise, an indirect tax on privileges.

And none of the decisions of SCOTUS respecting the limited scope of the 16th Amendment generally, and 16th Amendment income specifically, have ever, I repeat ever been overturned.