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purplechoe
02-18-2010, 05:11 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_truly_wacky_weed


Cops: Imitation pot as bad as the real thing
By SARAH D. WIRE, Associated Press Writer Sarah D. Wire, Associated Press Writer Wed Feb 17, 9:25 pm ET

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. There may be nothing like the real thing, but some industrious marijuana users have seized on an obscure but easily accessible substance that mimics the drug's effects on the brain creating a popular trade in legal dope that has stymied law enforcement authorities.

The users are buying a product known as K2 or "Spice," Genie" and "Zohai" that is commonly sold in head shops as incense. Produced in China and Korea, the mixture of herbs and spices is sprayed with a synthetic compound chemically similar to THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana. Users roll it up in joints or inhale it from pipes, just like the real thing.

Though banned in most of Europe, K2's key ingredients are not regulated in the United States a gap that has prompted lawmakers in Missouri and Kansas to consider new legislation.

"This isn't Jerry Garcia's marijuana," said state Rep. Jeff Roorda, a Democrat from the eastern Missouri town of Barnhart. "They've used chemicals to avoid creating something that's already illegal."

Authorities in Johnson County, Kan., discovered ex-convicts on probation smoking K2, and said it is spreading to high school students.

"This has become extremely popular," said Linda Weber, owner of The Vise smoke shop in the St. Louis suburb of St. Peters, who said she only sells to adults.

She said she sells about 60 packages a week, with suppliers calling her weekly to pitch new brands. She said she's keeping an eye on what state lawmakers decide, though, because "I definitely don't want to be selling it if it comes out that it's harmful."

K2 costs between $20 and $50 for three grams similar to the street price of marijuana but with the key advantages of being legal and undetectable in drug tests.

The key ingredients are believed to be the unintended result of scientific research on marijuana's effects.

Dr. John Huffman, a Clemson University organic chemistry professor, was researching the effects of cannabinoids on the brain when his work resulted in a 1995 paper that contained the method and ingredients used to make the compound. That recipe found its way to marijuana users, who replicated Huffman's work and began spraying it onto dried flowers, herbs and tobacco.

"People who use it are idiots," said Huffman, referring to K2 smokers.

A proposed bill in Missouri would make possession a felony punishable by up to seven years in prison identical to punishments given to users of real marijuana. A similar bill in Kansas would make possession a misdemeanor punishable, with up to a year in jail and a $2,500 fine, also the same as marijuana convictions.

The products are sold widely, but authorities in other states contacted by The Associated Press, including Pennsylvania, California and Michigan, said they haven't heard of their use as a drug.

Police in Missouri and Kansas said they've become aware of K2 in recent weeks.

In the rural southern Missouri city of West Plains, K2 is sold in a head shop just blocks from the high school. A botched attempt by teens to steal K2 from the shop brought the substance to the attention of police.

"A 10-year-old child could walk into a head shop and buy it," said West Plains Detective Shawn Rhoads. "It's not a tobacco, it's not regulated by anything. It would be like sending my 10-year-old son into Wal-Mart to buy potpourri."

Although it is legal, the military has banned possession of K2. The federal Drug Enforcement Administration has classified it a "drug or chemical of concern."

Conner Moore, 20, who is taking a semester off from Moberly Community College, said he and his friends started smoking K2 after reading online news articles and postings about the substance. He compares the high to smoking medical marijuana. The high, he says, is shorter.

"We just got on forums and looked it up and saw what other people said about it," he said. "Obviously if it comes out being bad, I'll obviously stop using it," Moore said. "There's really no sites out there that says what is in K2."

There is no data on the drug's toxicity or how long it stays in the body. In mice, it can lead to a lower body temperature, partial paralysis and the temporary inability to feel pain, according to the DEA.

One of the few studies of the compound's use was performed by the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction, a Portugal-based agency of the European Union, in November 2009. The study found the amount of synthetic compound varies widely between brands, and that despite being widely available, it isn't clear how many Europeans use it.

Allen St. Pierre, executive director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, said K2 isn't much discussed within marijuana culture. "If government is genuinely concerned about controlling cannabis-related products, there is really only one thing that seems to have an effect: a tax stamp," St. Pierre said.

constituent
02-18-2010, 06:15 AM
"This isn't Jerry Garcia's marijuana," said state Rep. Jeff Roorda

I thought Jerry Garcia was dead (and into dilaudid)?

Of course this brings up an interesting question, would Rep. Jeff Roorda be ok with people smoking Jerry Garcia's marijuana, or would that be bad too?

Baptist
02-18-2010, 06:52 AM
Dude, I don't want my kid licking a toy that is made in China, and these kids are going to light up and smoke crap that has Chinese chemicals sprayed on it? Have fun with that. They are just asking to end up on an episode of Rescue 911, immediately following the segment of the kid who almost died from huffing canisters of stuff from the hardware store.

Bruno
02-18-2010, 08:02 AM
Dude, I don't want my kid licking a toy that is made in China, and these kids are going to light up and smoke crap that has Chinese chemicals sprayed on it? Have fun with that. They are just asking to end up on an episode of Rescue 911, immediately following the segment of the kid who almost died from huffing canisters of stuff from the hardware store.

I must have missed the part of the article where it talks about it being detrimental to one's health. There is no toxicity studies done, and only a few studies done on mice. Are you assuming that these chemicals are the same chemicals used for huffing? Or are you just assuming that any chemicals sprayed onto something automatically cause harm to the body?

They say it is "just as bad as the real thing" Bad how? Do they really mean "effective in getting you high"?

Which goes to the heart of this issue - is government protecting us from harm by trying to make it illegal, or just meddling again by making anything illegal that might make an individual feel good?

NoHero
02-18-2010, 08:54 AM
I'd rather go buy 3 grams of the real stuff for 10 bucks "street value." The gov. always exaggerates drug prices, especially in busts. And some kids have piss poor parents, and anyone worrying about their 10 yr old doing this should look to themselves, not government. This stuff is just synthesized cannaboids, but I would not smoke it on tobacco or potpourri. Maybe if you sprayed it ON WEED...

torchbearer
02-18-2010, 09:07 AM
its not worth the money- buts it worth the entertainment value of watching pigs run around in circles.

Krugerrand
02-18-2010, 09:13 AM
I must have missed the part of the article where it talks about it being detrimental to one's health. There is no toxicity studies done, and only a few studies done on mice. Are you assuming that these chemicals are the same chemicals used for huffing? Or are you just assuming that any chemicals sprayed onto something automatically cause harm to the body?

They say it is "just as bad as the real thing" Bad how? Do they really mean "effective in getting you high"?

Which goes to the heart of this issue - is government protecting us from harm by trying to make it illegal, or just meddling again by making anything illegal that might make an individual feel good?

I think Baptist's point was a suspicion on ingesting chemicals produced in China. Think of the tainted baby formula that got repackaged and resold. If that's the quality control on baby formula, what would expect on something described in the article.

fisharmor
02-18-2010, 09:21 AM
Another object lesson in how you can not stop the market.

It boggles the mind to think about all the wasted time, effort, and money that's going to go into banning K2, retraining law enforcement, paying state lawyers to prosecute, hire new parole officers, build new jails to house people.

Think about what good we could accomplish if we could redirect a hundredth of the energy being wasted on drug prohibition.... then put that thought aside and remember that if each of those people instead looked after only their OWN interests, we'd all benefit.

Baptist
02-18-2010, 09:22 AM
I think Baptist's point was a suspicion on ingesting chemicals produced in China. Think of the tainted baby formula that got repackaged and resold. If that's the quality control on baby formula, what would expect on something described in the article.

This.

The Chinese take shortcuts in stuff all the time and end up selling products that can be hazardous for your health. Few months ago I heard about a bunch of drywall that was made in China being torn out of brand new homes because it was hazardous. Then there was the crap in baby food. There is no way I'd want smoke/inhale anything that I knew had "chemicals from China" on it.

My brother lives in China and he has to fly to Hong Kong to get anything of real value. For instance, he wanted an apple computer but the people in China take shortcuts when making computers and will substitute silver parts for something cheaper so they go bad.

You never know what your gonna get when you smoke Made in China.

fisharmor
02-18-2010, 09:34 AM
You never know what your gonna get when you smoke Made in China.

Yes, but you DO know what you're going to get when you smoke Made in the USA.
You're going to get a fairly safe really good time, and sooner or later, you're going to lose all your assets paying a lawyer to keep you from getting sodomized in prison.

So I hope you can understand how people see the economic advantage in going with Made in China. Everything else we use already comes from there, and the calculated risk of getting really sick is statistically the same as a lot of other daily risks we undertake with Chinese products.... and there's no chance of the sodomy thing, either.

Bruno
02-18-2010, 09:49 AM
This.

The Chinese take shortcuts in stuff all the time and end up selling products that can be hazardous for your health. Few months ago I heard about a bunch of drywall that was made in China being torn out of brand new homes because it was hazardous. Then there was the crap in baby food. There is no way I'd want smoke/inhale anything that I knew had "chemicals from China" on it.

My brother lives in China and he has to fly to Hong Kong to get anything of real value. For instance, he wanted an apple computer but the people in China take shortcuts when making computers and will substitute silver parts for something cheaper so they go bad.

You never know what your gonna get when you smoke Made in China.

Got it. I wouldn't want Chinese Drywall in my house any more than I would want to live in a FEMA trailer.

Which still brings us back to this:

Is government protecting us from harm by trying to make it illegal, or just meddling again by making anything illegal that might make an individual feel good?

Most people just blindly give up their rights anymore to be in charge of their own bodies without questioning the reasoning. "Government said it is bad to get high - ban everything anyone could ever think of using to get high!" :rolleyes:

coyote_sprit
02-18-2010, 10:01 AM
My brother lives in China and he has to fly to Hong Kong to get anything of real value. For instance, he wanted an apple computer but the people in China take shortcuts when making computers and will substitute silver parts for something cheaper so they go bad.

Where do you think Apples are made? Quanta and Foxconn use China, and guess who uses Foxconn and Quanta?

purplechoe
02-18-2010, 04:14 PM
http://www.manlyrash.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/pelosi-bong.jpg

Nate
02-18-2010, 05:13 PM
Another object lesson in how you can not stop the market.

It boggles the mind to think about all the wasted time, effort, and money that's going to go into banning K2, retraining law enforcement, paying state lawyers to prosecute, hire new parole officers, build new jails to house people.

Think about what good we could accomplish if we could redirect a hundredth of the energy being wasted on drug prohibition.... then put that thought aside and remember that if each of those people instead looked after only their OWN interests, we'd all benefit.

+1

This product wouldn't even be in demand if they didn't make the real thing illegal despite it's non-existent mortality rate. Instead of smoking the 100% all natural product they smoke the imitation crap (with who knows what long term side effects) because they currently won't get assaulted, extorted, kidnapped for ransom &/or used as slave labor if they use the imitation crap. Just let them smoke the real ting without ruining their lives because these moral crusaders don't approve of it & I guarantee that the number of people who smoke K2 will dramatically drop if not be eliminated entirely. There, problem solved. Statists make everything complicated.

Trigonx
02-18-2010, 05:57 PM
+1

This product wouldn't even be in demand if they didn't make the real thing illegal despite it's non-existent mortality rate. Instead of smoking the 100% all natural product they smoke the imitation crap (with who knows what long term side effects) because they currently won't get assaulted, extorted, kidnapped for ransom &/or used as slave labor if they use the imitation crap. Just let them smoke the real ting without ruining their lives because these moral crusaders don't approve of it & I guarantee that the number of people who smoke K2 will dramatically drop if not be eliminated entirely. There, problem solved. Statists make everything complicated.

i can't even believe people are buying this k2 stuff at such high prices!! ridiculous if you ask me.

jkr
02-18-2010, 05:58 PM
just remeMber kids:

THEY HATE YOU FOR YOUR FREEDOMS!

jkr
02-18-2010, 06:28 PM
Oh what about the children?

just remember to DRINK responsibly amerikkka


and drive your six thousand pound suv to the grocery


and visa is eveywhere u want to be

dannno
02-18-2010, 06:49 PM
Weird, never heard of it.

Trigonx
02-18-2010, 06:52 PM
Weird, never heard of it.

same, well until yesterday, i saw a blog post on lewrockwell about it.

Reason
02-24-2010, 12:04 PM
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/fake-marijuana-the-next-big-drug

dannno
03-04-2010, 09:57 PM
My friend in Utah said that ever since they ran this story the stuff's been flying off the shelves :confused:

YouTube - spice fake weed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KFxKzY1SCk)

Rael
03-04-2010, 10:36 PM
Just smoke real marijuana for gods sake :rolleyes:

muzzled dogg
03-04-2010, 10:46 PM
ban it

dannno
03-04-2010, 10:49 PM
*Just smoke real marijuana for gods sake :rolleyes:

*Consequences may include:

Going to jail
Losing your job

Agorism
03-04-2010, 10:52 PM
What's a head shop?

dannno
03-04-2010, 10:55 PM
What's a head shop?

A store that sells water pipes (aka bongs), pipes, papers and other cannabis paraphernalia, advertising their products for use with tobacco. In states where medicinal use is legal they are a little more lax about speaking more openly with customers (they could be a patient, after all).

Rael
03-04-2010, 11:29 PM
A store that sells water pipes (aka bongs), pipes, papers and other cannabis paraphernalia, advertising their products for use with tobacco. In states where medicinal use is legal they are a little more lax about speaking more openly with customers (they could be a patient, after all).

I always wanted to go into a head shop...and tell them I'd like some head. :D

Rael
03-04-2010, 11:33 PM
*Consequences may include:

Going to jail
Losing your job

Everything in life has risks. At least with marijuana you know what you are getting. Who knows what that other imitation chemical could do to you.

devil21
03-04-2010, 11:47 PM
Is imitation cocaine as bad as the real thing, Mr. Officer?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100305/ap_on_re_us/us_officers_arrested



SCITUATE, R.I. Three Providence police officers, including a narcotics detective and a school resource officer, were arrested Thursday on charges that they helped with a cocaine-dealing operation.

Detective Joseph Colanduono, Patrolman Robert Hamlin and Sergeant Steven Gonsalves were arrested at police headquarters and have been suspended without pay, said Providence Police Chief Dean Esserman, who called it a "hard day" for his department. The officers either used the cocaine or helped arrange the drug deals, police said.

Worry about what matters. Pot never killed anyone. Coke and cops have killed plenty.

dannno
03-04-2010, 11:57 PM
Everything in life has risks. At least with marijuana you know what you are getting. Who knows what that other imitation chemical could do to you.

I think it does pretty much the same thing.

RedStripe
03-05-2010, 12:07 AM
YouTube - ali g dangerous Drugs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DduAbLpZDHg)