PDA

View Full Version : Is this what we should do in RE: to the census?




Reason
02-16-2010, 10:45 PM
Seems pretty damn strong... Supreme court case & wording of the constitution seems to protect us pretty damn well...

Full article here @
[/URL][url]http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/greenslade.htm (http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/greenslade.htm)




My Rules and Plan of Attack
Here are the 3 basic rules I follow when I receive requests for personal information on the Census and/or American Community Survey forms.
* I never destroy or deface the forms.
* I never put false information on the forms.
* I never partially complete the forms. If I am going to make the assertion that the requested information does not apply to me or the requested information exceeds the government’s constitutional authority to request the information, I return the form with a cover letter explaining why.
Here is my plan of attack for the Census and American Community Survey forms.
When I receive the 2010 Census form I will return it with a cover letter. In the letter I will give them the number of people residing in the house and state that pursuant to Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Constitution that is the only information they are empowered to request. My “name, sex, age, date of birth, race, ethnicity, relationship and housing tenure” have absolutely nothing to with apportioning direct taxes or determining the number of representatives in the House of Representatives. Therefore, neither Congress nor the Census Bureau has the constitutional authority to make that information request a component of the enumeration outlined in Article I, Section 2, Clause 3. In addition, I cannot be subject to a fine for basing my conduct on the Constitution because that document trumps laws passed by Congress. Period end of story.
When I receive the American Community Survey form, I will return it with a cover letter. The letter will simply state that since the Constitution established a federal government of limited enumerated powers and that document does not grant them the general power to request the information, I am under no constitutional obligation to provide it.
If they attempt to distort the law and threaten me with the bogus $5,000.00 fine, as discussed and exposed above, I will send a letter to the Justice Department and request prosecution of the individuals making the threat.
The Coup de Gras to their Unconstitutional Information Requests
Even though I do not like to cite court cases, I either attach this one to my letter or hold it in reserve to support my refusal to comply with their bogus requests because it usually ends the discussion and any threat of a fine.
“Neither branch of the legislative department [House of Representatives or Senate], still less any merely administrative body [insert Census Bureau], established by congress, possesses, or can be invested with, a general power of making inquiry into the private affairs of the citizen. Kilbourn v. Thompson, 103 U.S. 168, 190. We said in Boyd v. U.S., 116 U. S. 616, 630, 6 Sup. Ct. 524,―and it cannot be too often repeated,―that the principles that embody the essence of constitutional liberty and security forbid all invasions on the part of government and it’s employees of the sanctity of a man’s home and the privacies of his life. As said by Mr. Justice Field in Re Pacific Ry. Commission, 32 Fed. 241, 250, ‘of all the rights of the citizen, few are of greater importance or more essential to his peace and happiness than the right of personal security, and that involves, not merely protection of his person from assault, but exemption of his private affairs, books, and papers from inspection and scrutiny of others. Without the enjoyment of this right, all others would lose half their value.’” [The bracketed words added for clarification]
Interstate Commerce Commission v. Brimson, 154 U.S. 447, 479 (May 26, 1894)
Note: This United States Supreme Court case has never been overturned.
If the federal government had been granted the general power to make inquires into the private affairs of the American people through the Census or a congressional mandated survey, then the Supreme Court could not have made this statement.
Now that we know the federal government was not granted the constitutional authority to make general inquires into our private affairs under the umbrella of the Census or a survey, I hope the American people will consider engaging in some civil disobedience and refuse to comply with these unconstitutional requests.

CapitalistRadical
02-16-2010, 10:52 PM
I wonder if it would attract undue attention and not really achieve all that much. I think we could get further if we didn't directly let the government know what we think of it. They get extra census information but they get deprived of a simple Enemies List that was voluntarily compiled.

Reason
02-16-2010, 11:29 PM
Debate @ this forum btw

http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2227587

Danke
02-17-2010, 01:31 AM
The ones they send me always go in the circular file.

Baptist
02-17-2010, 01:44 AM
I wonder if it would attract undue attention and not really achieve all that much. I think we could get further if we didn't directly let the government know what we think of it. They get extra census information but they get deprived of a simple Enemies List that was voluntarily compiled.


Mine must have gotten lost.

GunnyFreedom
02-17-2010, 01:49 AM
I never got one. And that's true.

Krugerrand
02-17-2010, 08:11 AM
I like the idea of a large-scale universal response such as described in the OP. The advantage of a large-scale response is that it makes prosecution difficult. From a quick search, the ACLU could care less about the census questions. I remember there being a more conservative version of the ACLU - but I forget what they were called. I wonder if they have organized anything.

teamrican1
02-17-2010, 08:30 AM
Best approach is to burn it. If a census worker comes to your door, don't answer. That way you've done your moral duty without putting a government bulls eye on your back.

rancher89
02-17-2010, 08:34 AM
I didn't get one either, I do remember getting one in 1980 though. I filled in how many people in the household and left the rest unfilled. The "census worker" came by a few weeks later and asked about the rest of the questions and I told her it was none of her business and she went away.

Things, no doubt, will be different this year...:D

GunnyFreedom
02-17-2010, 08:37 AM
I didn't get one either, I do remember getting one in 1980 though. I filled in how many people in the household and left the rest unfilled. The "census worker" came by a few weeks later and asked about the rest of the questions and I told her it was none of her business and she went away.

Things, no doubt, will be different this year...:D

I'm a bit...concerned...that they will try and drop ppl off the census in NC who live in GOP-heavy precincts.....

angelatc
02-17-2010, 08:37 AM
Best approach is to burn it. If a census worker comes to your door, don't answer. That way you've done your moral duty without putting a government bulls eye on your back.

I did that last time, and the census worker went to my neighbor's and got the info she wanted.

rancher89
02-17-2010, 08:38 AM
I'm a bit...concerned...that they will try and drop ppl off the census in NC who live in GOP-heavy precincts.....

That's a concern....hmmmm I wonder how many other "conservative-leaning" people did not get a census in the mail????

GunnyFreedom
02-17-2010, 08:41 AM
That's a concern....hmmmm I wonder how many other "conservative-leaning" people did not get a census in the mail????

The original source of my concern was this on-again off-again thing with ACORN involvement in the Census. I became concerned some time ago that they would try and dilute conservative voices. Kind of like a back-door gerrymander. And NC sure knows the gerrymander.

UtahApocalypse
02-17-2010, 08:45 AM
Do you even have to identify your name, address or JUST the number of people?

rancher89
02-17-2010, 08:52 AM
here's what they will be asking:

http://2010.census.gov/2010census/how/interactive-form.php

This year it's only 10 questions and the forms will be mailed out in March, so that's why no one has gotten one yet.


It appears that #4,5 & 10 are new questions....

GunnyFreedom
02-17-2010, 09:01 AM
here's what they will be asking:

http://2010.census.gov/2010census/how/interactive-form.php (http://2010.census.gov/2010census/how/interactive-form.php)

This year it's only 10 questions and the forms will be mailed out in March, so that's why no one has gotten one yet.


It appears that #4,5 & 10 are new questions....

It looks like 1, 2 and 10 are the only questions I'll be answering, as they are the only ones which pertain to the enumeration for representation.

Krugerrand
02-17-2010, 11:05 AM
Perhaps an attorney could make some money here ... charge $25 to submit a letter as per OP. Any attempt to contest could generate a civil rights lawsuit ... which would get billed to the government.

Reason
02-17-2010, 11:31 AM
Very interesting hardcore debate on this going on over @

http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2227587

Anti Federalist
02-17-2010, 11:34 AM
I refuse to answer and am not compelled to answer based on my Fifth Amendment rights.

muzzled dogg
02-17-2010, 11:56 AM
i think the fine is $100 for abstaining

if it would ever be issued

Reason
02-17-2010, 11:59 AM
i think the fine is $100 for abstaining

if it would ever be issued

According to the law cited in the article the fine has been bumped up to a maximum of 5,000$

muzzled dogg
02-17-2010, 12:00 PM
According to the law cited in the article the fine has been bumped up to a maximum of 5,000$

aint that a bitch

nateerb
02-17-2010, 12:08 PM
I plan to do excatly as in the OP. In 2000, I only entered number of people and did not answer any other questions. Census workers called (ignored) and eventually showed up at my door. After a stalemate they left empty-handed. They did not pursue the issue further.

ammorris
02-17-2010, 12:54 PM
I love the rationale for question five from the census website: "List everyones names so that you can make sure that you haven't forgotten anyone in your headcount." Who doesn't know how many people live in their house? "Federal law protects the confidentiality of personal information." Riiiiiight...

dgr
02-17-2010, 08:20 PM
We should all have gotten hired, took the class got the $300 and quit, just like all those other people. Does anyone have the data, you know they all had to be urban northern states. Are they going to include the millions wasted in the stimulu jobs data?

Promontorium
02-17-2010, 08:41 PM
I have nothing against the census in premise. But looking at the history, the FBI used it to round up the Japanese in internment camps. They claim they don't allow law enforcement to view it now, but why would they announce it? Stuff like that you find out years later.

I read on Wikipedia that they will be collecting much less data. This is a step in the right direction. A full census can be very beneficial for this country, and as long as the individuals in the data are not exploited by it, I support it.

jsu718
02-17-2010, 10:30 PM
Well, if Obama can win a Nobel Peace Prize based on potential... I will report potential children as if they exist. Also since I was born here, I am reporting myself under "other" as a "Native American".

Soldier of Liberty
02-17-2010, 11:20 PM
221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

* (a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.

* (b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.

* (c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.

Sec. 222. Giving suggestions or information with intent to cause inaccurate enumeration of population

Whoever, either directly or indirectly, offers or renders to any officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof engaged in making an enumeration of population under subchapter II, IV, or V of chapter 5 of this title, any suggestion, advice, information or assistance of any kind, with the intent or purpose of causing an inaccurate enumeration of population to be made, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.


The above is what I read as it concerns what can happen to a person if they dont fill out the census. To me it seems to be invasive, unecessary, a threat of force and utilizes extortion. Am I wrong. I realize the above statute might have been amended considering someone mentioned the maximum fine is 5,000$.

What do yall think?


Sol

Danke
02-18-2010, 12:25 AM
The above is what I read as it concerns what can happen to a person if they dont fill out the census. To me it seems to be invasive, unecessary, a threat of force and utilizes extortion. Am I wrong. I realize the above statute might have been amended considering someone mentioned the maximum fine is 5,000$.

What do yall think?


Sol

Those statues don't apply to most Americans.