@JoshLowry thread closing

[Keller1967]

Don't pretend you can debate or define the validity or effectiveness of the electoral process by making a childish statement and then closing the thread.

This site holds the political activism higher than liberty itself. That is all.

The revolutionary war was the one thing that made this "smallest government" possible, not political activism.

The revolutionaries did not raise funds to send representatives across the ocean so they could try to peacefully takeover parliament by way of political activism - they started and won a war.

So pretend all you like that you are working for the cause of liberty, it changes nothing, as your politics will change nothing. All you are doing is sucking the valuable time and money out of the hands of would be patriots.

How about you debate your worthless electoral process without closing the thread?

[disorderlyvision]

Nice knowing you keller...

[WaltM]

ever heard of "private property"?

[JoshLowry]

Thread was reopened about 30 secs after I locked it, so I wouldn't get a post like this.

Too late...

Thanks for the lesson sensei.


How about you debate your worthless electoral process without closing the thread?

You're either a useful idiot, a troll, or cointel. I'm gonna go with useful idiot. The state loves you.

[WaltM]

Thread was reopened about 30 secs after I locked it, so I wouldn't get a post like this.

Too late...

Thanks for the lesson sensei.



You're either a useful idiot, a troll, or cointel. I'm gonna go with useful idiot. The state loves you.

what thread was he talking about?

[JoshLowry]

what thread was he talking about?

The one where a few ancaps are threatening to "mass defect" from this board...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2551035&postcount=42

[Keller1967]

Thread was reopened about 30 secs after I locked it, so I wouldn't get a post like this.

Too late...

Thanks for the lesson sensei.



You're either a useful idiot, a troll, or cointel. I'm gonna go with useful idiot. The state loves you.

So you agree the thread shouldn't have been closed because you re-opened it, but I'm an idiot for raising the point you apparently agree with? Figures.

[Keller1967]

Nice knowing you keller...

Wish I could say the same but we hardly know each other as it is!

[Bman]

The one where a few ancaps are threatening to "mass defect" from this board...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2551035&postcount=42

lol. I like how everyone threatens to leave or says they are leaving because we all are not clones of one individual idea.

[Keller1967]

The one thing that really bothers me is how they treat political activism to be oh so serious and adult like and then when you give some honest and serious criticism people like Josh turn into your classic hiding-behind-the-keyboard-take-nothing-seriously internet kiddo.

[Brian4Liberty]

You're either a useful idiot, a troll, or cointel. I'm gonna go with useful idiot. The state loves you.

I would probably say troll, as he was just making fun of someone who lost a job in another thread...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2550406&postcount=10

[JoshLowry]

So you agree the thread shouldn't have been closed because you re-opened it, but I'm an idiot for raising the point you apparently agree with? Figures.

You should usually refresh before you post a rant that took you 15 minutes to write up.

You conveniently ignore my point that you are a useful idiot.

The RP2007 campaign did more to educate people than you're ever going to do by sitting out and calling it worthless.

Good luck with that strategy.

Using the political stage as a megaphone to millions of listeners works pretty well.

[Bman]

The one thing that really bothers me is how they treat political activism to be oh so serious and adult like and then when you give some honest and serious criticism people like Josh turn into your classic hiding-behind-the-keyboard-take-nothing-seriously internet kiddo.

Just sounds to me like you have an overwhelming lack of respect. It' Josh's board which means it is his property, which means you play be his rules or you can leave.

This boards has certain objectives. One of those objectives is working within the system to try and make a better place. It doesn't matter if you think it is ineffective. There's a scope to what is expected here and trying to be achieved. If you don't like that direction start your own message board. The true beauty of free markets.

[constituent]

ur all abunch uh bitches.

except joshlowry, he's the shit.

[Keller1967]

You should usually refresh before you post a rant that took you 15 minutes to write up.

You conveniently ignore my point that you are a useful idiot.

The RP2007 campaign did more to educate people than you're ever going to do by sitting out and calling it worthless.

Good luck with that strategy.

Using the political stage as a megaphone to millions of listeners works pretty well.

lol would that have taken you 15 minutes to write? should I add in that I also think you're an idiot? why is it so difficult to for you to just act like a genuine person who gives a fuck about his members? You think I am a useful idiot, I didn't ignore it, good enough? It's more likely that I am an idiot and not useful. :)

The 2007 campaign was one thing, that is over. We no longer have Ron Paul campaigning on ideals of liberty and freedom, we have Rand Paul campainging on pro-premptive war and pro-war on drugs etc. The education is lost at this point, standards are being bent in the wrong direction, you are now just leading people down a path were they serve those who seek power.

What is the purpose of politics for education if the result of the education is more politics for education? We do not need to play political games so that we can re-educate and then re-educate and then once again re-educate.

It is time to take that education and run with it towards liberty, political activism will not take us there.

[JoshLowry]

lol would that have taken you 15 minutes to write? should I add in that I also think you're an idiot? why is it so difficult to for you to just act like a genuine person who gives a fuck about his members? You think I am a useful idiot, I didn't ignore it, good enough? It's more likely that I am an idiot and not useful. :)

The 2007 campaign was one thing, that is over. We no longer have Ron Paul campaigning on ideals of liberty and freedom, we have Rand Paul campainging on pro-premptive war and pro-war on drugs etc. The education is lost at this point, standards are being bent in the wrong direction, you are now just leading people down a path were they serve those who seek power.

What is the purpose of politics for education if the result of the education is more politics for education? We do not need to play political games so that we can re-educate and then re-educate and then once again re-educate.

It is time to take that education and run with it towards liberty, political activism will not take us there.

You just got done saying that electoral politics is worthless. Which is it?

Ron Paul is running for re-election. I'm not leading anyone, everyone here is a volunteer and I don't have control over them.

To me it's about introducing people to smaller government. They can keep taking the steps down to voluntaryism if they choose.

The only thing I will tell ancaps is that they can not discourage political activism here. It works. It is not worthless, and they can leave if they want to stamp their feet over it. That's what this supposed "mass" defection is about.

[constituent]

It is not worthless, and they can leave if they want to stamp their feet over it.

their... ;) :)

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Thread was reopened about 30 secs after I locked it, so I wouldn't get a post like this.

Too late...

Thanks for the lesson sensei.



You're either a useful idiot, a troll, or cointel. I'm gonna go with useful idiot. The state loves you.

Yeah, I'm not too sure the state loves people who close down their courts because everyone takes their violations to trial. I'm not sure the state loves it when people get together and educate the population about jury nullification. I'm not sure the state loves it when people actively refuse to obey their laws. I'm not sure the state loves it when people stop paying taxes by trading for goods with private currencies. I'm not sure the state loves it when their enforcement agents come back dead. I'm not sure the state loves it when people work outside of their rigged game.

[JoshLowry]

their... ;) :)

Sorry. :confused:

[constituent]

Yeah, I'm not too sure the state loves people who close down their courts because everyone takes their violations to trial. I'm not sure the state loves it when people get together and educate the population about jury nullification. I'm not sure the state loves it when people actively refuse to obey their laws. I'm not sure the state loves it when people stop paying taxes by trading for goods with private currencies. I'm not sure the state loves it when their enforcement agents come back dead. I'm not sure the state loves it when people work outside of their rigged game.

no offense, but huh? :D

[JoshLowry]

Yeah, I'm not too sure the state loves people who close down their courts because everyone takes their violations to trial. I'm not sure the state loves it when people get together and educate the population about jury nullification. I'm not sure the state loves it when people actively refuse to obey their laws. I'm not sure the state loves it when people stop paying taxes by trading for goods with private currencies. I'm not sure the state loves it when their enforcement agents come back dead. I'm not sure the state loves it when people work outside of their rigged game.

I have no problem with those and that doesn't make you a useful idiot.

Only when you discourage political activism on this forum.

[Keller1967]

You just got done saying that electoral politics is worthless. Which is it?

Ron Paul is running for re-election. I'm not leading anyone, everyone here is a volunteer and I don't have control over them.

To me it's about introducing people to smaller government. They can keep taking the steps down to voluntaryism if they choose.

The only thing I will tell ancaps is that they can not discourage political activism here. It works. It is not worthless, and they can leave if they want to stamp their feet over it. That's what this supposed "mass" defection is about.

What has it done that "works" for bringing liberty?

Ron Paul's campaign education is worthwhile ONLY if the education leads towards more liberty, which so far it has not, it has only created a desire.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

You should usually refresh before you post a rant that took you 15 minutes to write up.

You conveniently ignore my point that you are a useful idiot.

The RP2007 campaign did more to educate people than you're ever going to do by sitting out and calling it worthless.

Good luck with that strategy.

Using the political stage as a megaphone to millions of listeners works pretty well.

Who recruited Ron Paul again? There was all ready a pretty large libertarian segment of the population. I'm not going to debate you on this, because it would serve no real purpose. If we spent 40+ million in another avenue we could have reached a lot more people, but you conveniently over look this.

[constituent]

If we spent 40+ million in another avenue we could have reached a lot more people, but you conveniently over look this.

but how would you have attracted that 40 mil? hardly chump change...

[JoshLowry]

Who recruited Ron Paul again? There was all ready a pretty large libertarian segment of the population. I'm not going to debate you on this, because it would serve no real purpose. If we spent 40+ million in another avenue we could have reached a lot more people, but you conveniently over look this.

Well, I believe he decided to run for Congress to change policies he felt were damaging to our Republic.

You can't raise $40 million dollars doing something else.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

You just got done saying that electoral politics is worthless. Which is it?

Ron Paul is running for re-election. I'm not leading anyone, everyone here is a volunteer and I don't have control over them.

To me it's about introducing people to smaller government. They can keep taking the steps down to voluntaryism if they choose.

The only thing I will tell ancaps is that they can not discourage political activism here. It works. It is not worthless, and they can leave if they want to stamp their feet over it. That's what this supposed "mass" defection is about.

Could you please list the policy objectives you have achieved. Thanks.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Well, I believe he decided to run for Congress to change policies he felt were damaging to our Republic.

You can't raise $40 million dollars doing something else.

If people saw the game for what it is, and people had ownership in the endeavors, and we created legitimate enterprises. Yes, we (libertarians) could. I've mentioned FTL a bunch around here and the FSP, yet it goes by unnoticed. Those two projects are doing and achieving more, than the 40+ million you put into electoral politics.

When people have ownership, and direction, and goals that ring true to philosophy people stay active. How many have stayed active after Rons run? How many voluntaryists stay active 24/7 365?

[constituent]

Could you please list the policy objectives you have achieved. Thanks.

I don't think that's necessarily fair. even you admit that real change comes through education.

The measure should not be what policies have changed, but how have attitudes changed. Know what I mean?

[JoshLowry]

Could you please list the policy objectives you have achieved. Thanks.

After listening to Ron Paul and doing research, many people are now smaller government supporters.

We won't make changes overnight, but the more people that wake up, the better chance we will have.

[Keller1967]

Could you please list the policy objectives you have achieved. Thanks.

That is really the whole argument, Josh is just using circular logic. Politics work because they educate people and the educated people are encouraged to do politics. The end goal ultimately has become political success, not liberty.

I will take this back when Josh lists some worthwhile policy objectives that have been achieved, I am not aware of any.

[JoshLowry]

If people saw the game for what it is, and people had ownership in the endeavors, and we created legitimate enterprises. Yes, we (libertarians) could.

Well then you better keep the electoral politics going, because that's been your best card in this game.

[Keller1967]

After listening to Ron Paul and doing research, many people are now smaller government supporters.

We won't make changes overnight, but the more people that wake up, the better chance we will have.

It hasn't been overnight, it's been 3+ years and millions spent, where are the results? You sound like federal stimulus advocates who always say the plan didn't work because they didn't quite spend enough money.

They always need a little bit more money, your politics will always need a little more time.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

but how would you have attracted that 40 mil? hardly chump change...

Indeed. There are ways. We are talking about this right now. First you have to make a product. Get the message out there. Maybe our endeavors will create the environment for others to take this direction. We shall see, anyways.

[constituent]

The end goal ultimately has become political success, not liberty.


So then it is your perception of the end goal that presents--to you--a problem?

That is to say political means aren't necessarily the problem, but rather what you believe these means are leading others toward.

Would you say that's a fair assessment of your position?

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Well then you better keep the electoral politics going, because that's been your best card in this game.

Really? I think FTL, Stossel, LvMI, Professors, FSP, etc. has done a lot more than electoral politics.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I don't think that's necessarily fair. even you admit that real change comes through education.
The measure should not be what policies have changed, but how have attitudes changed. Know what I mean?

So why is it assumed electoral politics is the most cost efficient avenue? I mean, how much have we spent in the last 80 years alone. What have we achieved? Look at Talk Radio. Good lord, do they influence the majority of this country.

[JoshLowry]

That is really the whole argument, Josh is just using circular logic. Politics work because they educate people and the educated people are encouraged to do politics. The end goal ultimately has become political success, not liberty.

I will take this back when Josh lists some worthwhile policy objectives that have been achieved, I am not aware of any.

Those educated people become voluntaryists and ancaps who help your cause. Again, RP has swollen the ranks of ancaps more than any other project in the past two decades.

People losing their apathy and becoming activists for smaller government is a good thing.

[constituent]

First you have to make a product.

Or learn from Ron Paul, and be the product. Even that has its own set of challenges.

[constituent]

So why is it assumed electoral politics is the most cost efficient avenue?

Is that the assumption? It certainly isn't my assumption, though I'm sure some do feel that way.

[constituent]

Really? I think FTL, Stossel, LvMI, Professors, FSP, etc. has done a lot more than electoral politics.

I don't think an objective measure does or even could exist...

That's not to say that many folks who eventually supported Ron Paul weren't primed first.

[muzzled dogg]

It hasn't been overnight, it's been 3+ years and millions spent, where are the results? You sound like federal stimulus advocates who always say the plan didn't work because they didn't quite spend enough money.

They always need a little bit more money, your politics will always need a little more time.

lol damn

[Keller1967]

So then it is your perception of the end goal that presents--to you--a problem?

That is to say political means aren't necessarily the problem, but rather what you believe these means are leading others toward.

Would you say that's a fair assessment of your position?

Yes I think that is fair, I will support political action that gets results. I am just not convinced it is possible. While I think it was largely wasted I am happy enough with the money I gave to the 2007 campaign as far as people take that education and run with it, not just do more of the same, which seems to be the case.

I mean certainly the real problem is tyranny, not political action, I think we can all agree on that. I do see political action being the #1 reason or excuse as to why would-be patriots don't deal with tyranny effectively.

[Bman]

Only 1/3rd of the population voted in the last election. Ignoring government seemingly does little to make it disappear.

[JoshLowry]

It hasn't been overnight, it's been 3+ years and millions spent, where are the results? You sound like federal stimulus advocates who always say the plan didn't work because they didn't quite spend enough money.

They always need a little bit more money, your politics will always need a little more time.

And your cause of smaller government doesn't need time or money to spread amongst the public?

It just magically happens!

[MelissaWV]

How can I put this super duper simply...

So long as electoral politics exist, they are a tool which can be used against people. They are a means through which awful laws and even worse enforcement can be visited upon the populace, and are such a casually accepted process that the same populace will mostly embrace the chains they're given.

Taking that as gospel, it behooves everyone who sees that entire prospect as frightening and unacceptable to at the VERY least have SOME kind of blockade keeping things from getting worse, and at most a means of getting things closer and closer to Government not being there at all.

In other words, you can hate the Government but still realize that some other people (whether running for dog catcher, state house, or US Senate) getting elected will help you not have to deal with more and more idiocy at every turn, and more and more draconian distractions and potential strife over what should be "small stuff." The more laws get passed, the more layers have to be peeled away to even approach freedom. Electing people that don't want to add layers, and might even want to peel away a layer or two, leaves more resources and time free to concentrate on whatever your ultimate goal is.

So even if YOU don't want to play politics, elections are still a useful tool indirectly.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

And your cause of smaller government doesn't need time or money to spread amongst the public?

It just magically happens!

I think your overlooked the point that electoral politics is throwing money into the hole. It is spent, it is gone. It is not a revenue self-sustaining generator. If we actually created legitimate enterprises to facilitate our own education tools, with self-sustaining activites (advertisements, products, etc.), we wouldn't need to waste our money on pointless projects (Read electoral politics).

This is what everyone overlooks. We need capital. We need an economic advantage. Imagine if we invested that 40 million into liberty enterprises, from TV adverts that directed to websites with a large amount of content, to forming our own syndicated radio networks, to using boxee and forming our own TV programs, to a litany of things. How do the statists brainwash the masses? Certainly not through politics right?

[Keller1967]

And your cause of smaller government doesn't need time or money to spread amongst the public?

It just magically happens!

...or maybe less magic and more blood, sweat and tears.

Ultimately we need to see real results for money spent, not your favorate liberty candidate on c-span but real results in the form of freedom to spend money and freedom of action.

[low preference guy]

I'd say those who prefer an approach to advance liberty that is different from electoral politics, like writing books, etc., should fight for liberty with their approach. But the owner of this site wants to try to advance liberty through electoral politics. Nothing he does stops anyone from trying their own favorite approach. Go ahead and do it without questioning on this forum those who advocate political activism. If you can't accept the fact that this is private property, my guess is that you'll be forced to leave.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

i'm impressed this thread has made it this far.

[constituent]

I do see political action being the #1 reason or excuse as to why would-be patriots don't deal with tyranny effectively.

Ok, so by and large you view political action as a distraction. I think that's fair.

The question then becomes, do you believe that those pushing political action at this site are doing so primarily to encourage an environment and develop coalitions that will act as various means of exposing and combatting tyranny, or do you believe they are here to act as a clever distraction and dissuade individuals (or merely distract them long enough to prevent them) from practicing more effective (per your view of effectiveness) means?

I feel like I'm detecting some undertones in your messages that suggest there's some funny business going on... is this the case?

[Keller1967]

I think your overlooked the point that electoral politics is throwing money into the hole. It is spent, it is gone. It is not a revenue self-sustaining generator. If we actually created legitimate enterprises to facilitate our own education, with self-sustaining activites (advertisements, products, etc.), we wouldn't need to waste our money on pointless projects.

This is what everyone overlooks. We need capital. We need an economic advantage. Imagine if we invested that 40 million into liberty enterprises, from TV adverts that directed to websites with a large amount of content, to forming our own syndicated radio networks, to using boxee and forming our own TV programs, to a litany of things. How do the statists brainwash the masses? Certainly not through politics right?

Yes, more than enough money was raised to start a for-profit libertarian college, just one example. Methods to continue getting the message out there while being self-sustaining. Donations should be treated as a initial investment and not a constant form of support. We need more responsible ways of spending people's hard earned donations if we are going to expect things to continue.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I'd say those who prefer an approach to advance liberty that is different from electoral politics, like writing books, etc., should fight for liberty with their approach. But the owner of this site wants to try to advance liberty through electoral politics. Nothing he does stops anyone from trying their own favorite approach. Go ahead and do it without questioning on this forum those who advocate political activism. If you can't accept the fact that this is private property, my guess is that you'll be forced to leave.

Except of course electoral politics siphons a huge amount of capital from those who believe in liberty.

[Bman]

Yes, more than enough money was raised to start a for-profit libertarian college, just one example. Methods to continue getting the message out there while being self-sustaining. Donations should be treated as a initial investment and not a constant form of support. We need more responsible ways of spending people's hard earned donations if we are going to expect things to continue.

Well you obviously know the best way, so start it up. Go out and get the money.

[Keller1967]

Ok, so by and large you view political action as a distraction. I think that's fair.

The question then becomes, do you believe that those pushing political action at this site are doing so primarily to encourage an environment and develop coalitions that will act as various means of exposing and combatting tyranny, or do you believe they are here to act as a clever distraction and dissuade individuals (or merely distract them long enough to prevent them) from practicing more effective (per your view of effectiveness) means?

I feel like I'm detecting some undertones in your messages that suggest there's some funny business going on... is this the case?

Either way that would be a presumption on my part, I think it is irrelevant.

[brandon]

It funny how you all argue about what strategies have done more to help the small/no government movement, meanwhile the government's exponential growth continues.

Nothing anyone has done has worked....at all.

[Keller1967]

Well you obviously know the best way, so start it up. Go out and get the money.

If I did I wouldn't be here.

[Keller1967]

It funny how you all argue about what strategies have done more to help the small government movement, meanwhile the governments exponential growth continues.

Nothing anyone has done has worked....at all.

So lets try something new, I have some ideas.

[Bman]

It funny how you all argue about what strategies have done more to help the small government movement, meanwhile the governments exponential growth continues.

Nothing anyone has done has worked....at all.

lol. This is true.

[brandon]

I'm up for some new ideas

[constituent]

This is what everyone overlooks. We need capital. We need an economic advantage.

This is important, because it really does all come down to the money.



Imagine if we invested that 40 million into liberty enterprises

What good will that do me?

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your vision. :)



How do the statists brainwash the masses?

VERY subtly. Here's the important thing though, there is money to be made off the brainwashed, but not so much with the aware. "The media" learned this ages ago. The market, unfortunately, appears to have spoken.

[Bman]

If I did I wouldn't be here.

Well then why make such a completely subjective statement.

[Bman]

I'm up for some new ideas

I'm not ready to give up yet. We have advanced some candidates and with the relection percentages of congress everyone we get gives us a great oppurtunity to get some more there. I just see it being a score's worth of work before real change is achieveable.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I'm not ready to give up yet. We have advanced some candidates and with the relection percentages of congress everyone we get gives us a great oppurtunity to get some more there. I just see it being a score's worth of work before real change is achieveable.

You have the 60 votes needed in the Senate? You have the Presidency? How much money do you think that will take?? That's even bypassing the question of, does everyone who gets elected want to pursue politically inviable solutions, that are the real solutions. My guess is no, because many refuse to bring this up in their campaign because they are afraid because it is not "politically viable". Ergo, they won't dare pursure it once they are in office.

[Keller1967]

We might have decent numbers now but we are spread too thin. We only communicate via the internet and therefore we don't trust each other. We need to close that gap, and we need arms. We need to work together like PEOPLE who care about each other for a common goal.

We can't trust that we will get liberty by playing by their rules, we need a show of numbers and of force in numbers. Nothing violent, just legal gun ownership combined with a strong group that will be willing to defend itself when the shit its the fan. This is what the government respects, not voluntary action.

It is the same concept as when a foreign country finally gets a nuke and is no longer trampled by the US government. We need a "nuke" and hopefully we will never use it.

[low preference guy]

I look forward to the day when all these whiners create rothbardforums.com and stop discouraging political activism at RPF.

[Cowlesy]

lol Jesus H. Christ if you fuckers don't like Josh's board, then juust leaaaaaaaaveeeee!!!!!!

Man I swear the internet-tubes re-wire peoples brains or something.

IT'S AN INTERNET MESSAGEBOARD!

[Bman]

You have the 60 votes needed in the Senate? You have the Presidency? How much money do you think that will take?? That's even bypassing the question of, does everyone who gets elected want to pursue politically inviable solutions, that are the real solutions. My guess is no, because many refuse to bring this up in their campaign because they are afraid because it is not "politically viable". Ergo, they won't dare pursure it once they are in office.

So you are happy with the status quo? That's really the other option. No matter how much you try to convince people that we'd be better off without government, it still won't change the fact that it is here and it is not going anywhere.

Hey if you think convincing a few people on the internet to not vote is going to make a difference, well more power to you but if ever there was a waste of money and resources that would get my vote well beofre what is being done within the current system.

[Keller1967]

lol Jesus H. Christ if you fuckers don't like Josh's board, then juust leaaaaaaaaveeeee!!!!!!

Man I swear the internet-tubes re-wire peoples brains or something.

IT'S AN INTERNET MESSAGEBOARD!

So the people here aren't worth talking to because it's on an internet message board? or are they Josh's private property as well? :confused:

[Meatwasp]

I try to be reasonable but God it looks like the barnacles are trying to attach themselves to Josh's ship to sink it.

[MelissaWV]

There just aren't enough facepalms to express my sentiments.

http://cdn.wg.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/facepalm-collage21.jpg

[Cowlesy]

So the people here aren't worth talking to because it's on an internet message board? or are they Josh's private property as well? :confused:

There are people on this board who aren't worth the bandwidth/whatever they suck up posting their BS that serves to cause schisms in this board, peel members off and in general divert the forum's mission.

If a new member comes to this board, reads the mission statement, and then sees half the forum runs contrary to it, then that is a problem.

If I am surfing the internet and wish to find a board exploring activist ideas to eliminate government by education, I certainly wouldn't sign-up here, unless my intent was to convert members.

People want to advertise their pet ways of activism that run contrary to the forum's purpose? BUY AN AD. It ruins it for people who visit here looking for information when New Posts is clogged up with all these Split threads/fight threads because a few members are perpetually having hissy-fits and questioning others motives and trying to micro-analyze each post like their is some diabolical plan to suicide the entire board.

Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, the forum moderators/admins are all adults, and the last thing they need to be doing is virtually babysitting other adults who can't seem to interact/play well with others.

[Meatwasp]

There just aren't enough facepalms to express my sentiments.

http://cdn.wg.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/facepalm-collage21.jpg

My sentiments.

[nayjevin]

Perhaps a single thread titled: 'WAIT A MINUTE! Some members here think political action is fruitless!'

Let all derails be moved to that thread. Perhaps?

[revolutionisnow]

Wait....so anarchists are trying to cause anarchy?

[Pennsylvania]

Perhaps a single thread titled: 'WAIT A MINUTE! Some members here think political action is fruitless!'

Let all derails be moved to that thread. Perhaps?

+1. Then we'll all know what thread to ignore.

[low preference guy]

Perhaps a single thread titled: 'WAIT A MINUTE! Some members here think political action is fruitless!'

Let all derails be moved to that thread. Perhaps?

I support that.

[Cowlesy]

Perhaps a single thread titled: 'WAIT A MINUTE! Some members here think political action is fruitless!'

Let all derails be moved to that thread. Perhaps?

I used to feel that way, but for the people just trying to wreck the forum I am for scorched earth.

I'm tired of playing cute'sy and playing in the gray area with people who have zero interest in this forum except as their own little recruitment playground.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

It hasn't been overnight, it's been 3+ years and millions spent, where are the results? You sound like federal stimulus advocates who always say the plan didn't work because they didn't quite spend enough money.

They always need a little bit more money, your politics will always need a little more time.

I happen to agree with many of the same things that you seem to, however, I have a lot of respect for the people here that are giving all their efforts to bring change by the avenue they deem proper. To me it seems that their efforts have had a substantial influence in opening peoples eyes to what our government has been doing.

To some extent all of our idealogies are futile much like the straw dogs.

[moostraks]

lol Jesus H. Christ if you fuckers don't like Josh's board, then juust leaaaaaaaaveeeee!!!!!!

Man I swear the internet-tubes re-wire peoples brains or something.

IT'S AN INTERNET MESSAGEBOARD!

rofl...too true!

[moostraks]

I used to feel that way, but for the people just trying to wreck the forum I am for scorched earth.

I'm tired of playing cute'sy and playing in the gray area with people who have zero interest in this forum except as their own little recruitment playground.

thank goodness I am not the only person feeling this level of hostility towards the tone here lately...

[Meatwasp]

thank goodness I am not the only person feeling this level of hostility towards the tone here lately...

I can take so much and than I feel like really cussing some of those idiots out. I hold it in and my face gets red. Ha!

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I can take so much and than I feel like really cussing some of those idiots out. I hold it in and my face gets red. Ha!

I'd get your stomach checked for ulcers. Real nasty, they are.