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FrankRep
02-11-2010, 03:51 PM
The unrelenting attacks on Toyota are a metaphor for similar attacks on the free market economy by its detractors. by Bob Adelmann


Toyota Under Fire (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/2922-toyota-under-fire)


Bob Adelmann | The New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/)
11 February 2010


The unrelenting attacks on Toyota are a metaphor for similar attacks on the free-market economy by its detractors.

Up until August, 2009, Toyota had become the premier automobile manufacturer in the world. Through its “relentless pursuit of perfection” (Toyota’s Lexus brand’s marketing slogan), Toyota enjoyed increasing sales and profitability through its successful efforts to serve its customers better than its competition.

In August, a horrendous car crash involving a family driving a Lexus automobile killed the driver, Mark Saylor, a California Highway Patrol officer, his wife and daughter, and his brother-in-law. A recording (http://bit.ly/d8mVj0) of a passenger’s frantic 911 call, lasting 52 seconds, was broadcast throughout the media and pushed Toyota into the unwelcome and unaccustomed spotlight of negative public attention. That attention continues today.

A careful review (http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/toyota-floor-mat-problem-was-known-two-years-ago/) of the cause of the accident by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration revealed no mechanical or electronic malfunctions. What they did find “was that the design of the accelerator pedal allowed it to become easily entrapped in the groove of the rubber all-weather floor mat if the rubber mat was not properly secured with at least one of the two retaining hooks.” The car was a loaner from the Lexus dealership while Saylor’s own automobile was being serviced. The previous driver of the loaner told the dealer that the floor mat had in fact hit the pedal.

Saylor was unable to slow the car because “with the engine throttle plate open, the vacuum power assist of the braking system cannot be replenished and the effectiveness of the brakes is reduced significantly.” NHTSA researchers said that stopping distances “increased from less than 200 feet to more than 1,000 feet.” In addition, it only took 30 pounds of pressure on the brake pedal to bring the car to a halt when the brake system was operating normally, but in the extraordinary circumstances of the Saylor accident, “brake pedal force in excess of 150 pounds [would have been] required to stop the vehicle.”

Officials also indicated that Saylor probably had a problem turning off the engine because the vehicle he was driving used a “start button” instead of an ignition key which “removes the ability to instantaneously shut off the engine in the event of an emergency while the vehicle is in motion.” In order to stop the engine, the start button would have to have been depressed for three seconds — a safety measure provided by Toyota in this vehicle to prevent the engine from being shut off by mistake.

The NHTSA had investigated complaints about unintended acceleration in early 2004 but closed the investigation in July of that year because investigators “had found no pattern of safety problems.”

Over the next two years, additional similar complaints were investigated (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704820904575055733096312238.html?K EYWORDS=Toyota), with similar results. Toyota itself could find no defects in the vehicles involved. Christopher Tinto, a Toyota liason to the NHTSA, wrote, “There is no factor or trend indicating that a vehicle or component defect exists.”

And then the Saylor accident took center stage. Upon completing their investigation of the accident, the agency published their findings on September 13, indicating that the accident “was caused by floor-mat pedal entrapment.” On September 26, Toyota recalled all vehicles (approximately 55,000) affected by the all-weather-floor mats, and issued a warning to all of its customers either to remove or properly secure those mats.

On September 25, 2009, after the NHTSA investigated another accident involving a similar brake failure, it told Toyota to “address the defect in the pedal design.” On October 5, Toyota issued a recall for 3.8 million vehicles to fix that problem.

On January 19 of this year, Toyota told the new NHTSA chief David Strickland that they knew of the problem with its gas pedals, whereupon Strickland got “steamed” and threatened to use his agency’s full authority (including subpoenas, fines, and demands to stop manufacturing automobiles) unless Toyota addressed the issue more fully. On January 21, Toyota ordered the recall of another 2.3 million vehicles for fixes. Strickland ordered Toyota to stop selling the affected vehicles until a solution was found. Toyota recalled another 1.1 vehicles for repairs.

The prompt responses were indicative of the culture (http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2010/02/09/reasons-why-toyota-will-recover-quickly-from-the-recall-mess/?KEYWORDS=Toyota) of Toyota. According to Anna Bernasek, author of The Economics of Integrity, “From the start, Toyota was all about quality and catching problems. That culture has really built the brand. Toyota became synonymous with quality. It goes back to its philosophy that it is concerned with the best way to deliver value to the customer, to the shareholder, to the dealer and to every person involved with Toyota. It focused on giving the customer what they wanted honestly and openly.”



The whole thing with Toyota and quality is that Toyota delivered on what they promised. That forms a bond of trust with the customer. And it took decades to build that bond. That culture pervaded every aspect of the company. Toyota set everything from the factory floor to the internal organization to focus on and to deal with problems as they arise.


When asked about the recalls, Bernasek responded: “Toyota has gone out of its way to put the customer first. I think the difference in this case — specifically the pedal and the accelerator — is that there is no ‘smoking gun’ about what is wrong. They have been criticized as slow to respond. But Toyota has had all its engineers on it, and they have not been able to find a major problem. There hasn’t been anything definitively wrong. I think what exacerbated the situation was that spectacular crash when the fellow was calling 911. I think Toyota didn’t understand how that can catch people’s imaginations.”

The Obama administration has increased pressure on the company as well. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood (http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=520087&Ntt=Toyota) said, “My advice is if anybody owns one of these vehicles is to stop driving it and take it to a Toyota dealer because they believe they have the fix for it.” (Emphasis added.) LaHood later said that had been a “misstatement,” but went on to say, “Our people will hold Toyota’s feet to the fire to make sure they are going to do everything they said they were going to do to make the vehicles safe.” LaHood indicated that he was going to call the president of Toyota personally about the recalls. And Toyota’s North American CEO Yoshimi Inaba will shortly appear before the House Oversight Committee where both LaHood and Strickland can be expected to grill him mercilessly.

The media’s relentless attention on Toyota and its recalls have caused some (http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=98afa836-fbaa-475a-8542-7ff0d12d5c2b) to complain, calling it “one of the most irresponsible and destructive bouts of media thuggery in history.” Reference was made to the article in Time magazine, “Toyota’s Safety Problems: A Checkered History.” The writer for National Post summarized that article by saying, “Over 25 years, until October 2009, the magazine lists 12 incidents in which officials [from NHTSA] investigated and essentially found nothing.”

Dave Zoia, editorial director at WardsAuto.com, said “It’s important … that they … make sure there isn’t a perception out there that they’re ganging up on Toyota." Governors of Kentucky, Indiana, Mississippi and Alabama have sent a letter asking (http://newsmax.com/InsideCover/US-Toyota-Governors/2010/02/10/id/349590) that Toyota get a “responsible and fair response from the federal government. Toyota must put the safety of drivers first and foremost. However, they deserve a level and reasonable response from the federal government — one that is not tainted by the federal government’s financial interest in some of Toyota’s competitors.”

Investors Business Daily put things into perspective: “Begin by understanding as clearly as possible that Toyotas are not dangerous. The best guess is that since 2001, 19 people have died in Toyotas with sticky accelerators. During that same period over 330,000 people died in traffic accidents.”

The lawyers are getting in line as well. E. Todd Tracy, an auto liability attorney from Dallas, said, “Toyota’s lack of engineering discipline and rush to become the world’s largest vehicle manufacturer will end up costing it billions of dollars in sales, recalls and lawsuits. (Emphasis added.)

Those costs are just beginning to be calculated. Toyota expects 100,000 fewer vehicle sales while they are fixing the problems. And Toyota’s stock, which peaked last fall at $92 a share, is currently trading at about $75. Other costs are involved too. As Investors Business Daily reminded (http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=520380&Ntt=Toyota) its readers, “Toyota isn’t just a foreign company operating in the U.S. It’s a foreign investor with a $16 billion investment here and 30,000 American workers.”

And with 4,100 dealerships employing another 115,000 people, the continuing barrage of investigations and negative media attention could cause additional massive losses. Mack Ott, an economist formerly with the Federal Reserve and now an advisor at the Heartland Institute, says there are two reasons why foreign companies like investing in America: “One is [that] there’s generally a perception that when you come before the (legal) bench, the issue is not who you are and where you’re from, but the issue at hand. The other is U.S. openness [and] its innovative environment and higher return on investment.” To discourage such foreign investment, says IBD, by “political harassment and populist haymaking [is an] insane thing to do.”

Despite the incessant attacks and accusations, Toyota’s customers remain loyal to the company. A recent Rasmussen poll (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/auto_industry/february_2010/59_still_hold_favorable_view_of_toyota) indicates that 59 percent of Americans “still hold at least a somewhat favorable view of Toyota even as the embattled automaker adds at least 300,000 2010 Prius models to the eight million cars it is already recalling worldwide over safety issues.” And local dealers are extending working hours and providing 24-hour hotlines to make sure their customers are served promptly. Groove Toyota (http://www.denverpost.com/ci_14378172) in Englewood, Colorado, is servicing 80 vehicles a day, up from the usual daily volume of 50, and has extended its shop hours two hours — until 8 p.m. — to handle the repairs efficiently. The chief operating office at Groove, Bill Carmichael, said, “I’d say that the majority of customers are unshaken. You get some who are annoyed because they had to come in, but they leave satisfied and they still love their cars.” He added, “I don’t see a long-term impact on sales because Toyota has so much goodwill from so many years of supplying a great product.”

Tammy Darvish, the owner of four Toyota dealerships in the Washington, D.C., area, works nights answering her 24-hour hotline, and has extended shop hours six hours — until 5 a.m. When she was asked (http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2010/02/10/toyota-dealer-the-media-is-causing-toyotas-problems/?KEYWORDS=Toyota) if she was afraid of losing customers over the recall issue, she said, “As long as we fix it right the first time and do whatever we can to make the inconvenience as minimal as possible, we can manage our customers. I sell GM cars also, and those customers would [change brands] for 10 bucks. But Toyota customers are loyal.”



I don’t want to minimize importance of any safety matter. But I think the media has made a sport out of sensationalizing something that is very common: a recall. I sell Chryslers, and they had 18 recalls last year. Did you read about any of those?


Toyota itself (http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_14369270) has been very active in countering the barrage of criticism. It is running a series of TV ads apologizing and promising to win back its customers’ trust. It’s also interviewing those who will be grilling them in Washington, to learn what they will be asking and how they can respond favorably.

In a microcosm, then, the travails of Toyota can be extended to the incessant media attacks on America’s market economy. With continuing education about how the system works when it is left alone, the business of America, just like Toyota, will continue to thrive and prosper.


SOURCE:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/2922-toyota-under-fire

InterestedParticipant
02-11-2010, 04:10 PM
I was unable to read anymore than just the OP Headline, as the OP is on my ignore list. However, without knowing the frame of the article or it's exact content, this entire Toyota story appears to me to be nothing more than an attempt by the international cabal to assimilate Toyota further into their system of control.

It's similar to Congress holding Jerry Yang of Yahoo! hostage in front of the media and making him apologize about exposing Chinese activists to the Chinese authorities... had that been Google, the story would have been buried. But given that there was also a takeover attack on Yahoo, the story got max exposes and in a very negative light.

I do not know the objectives regarding Toyota, and probably only time will tell, but I surmise that this story is simply leverage to attain some other, very unrelated, goal.

FrankRep
02-11-2010, 06:18 PM
bump

awake
02-11-2010, 06:50 PM
GM (government motors) can not compete with a good car company in a FREE market. This isn't a coincidence that you see a outright media scandal; the objective is simple; to curb Toyota buyers and boost GM buyers. Protectionism and corruption...whats new.

Recall of a hybrid Green car....hmmm

youngbuck
02-11-2010, 07:04 PM
Alls I know is I still consider Toyota to be the best overall automobile manufacturer.

FrankRep
02-16-2010, 08:25 PM
Crisis-hit Toyota to idle two US factories: report

AFP / Breitbart
Feb 16, 2010

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.231a2854e18ee0b63877c9ffdd84d92 d.41&show_article=1

klamath
02-16-2010, 08:38 PM
Deleted

UtahApocalypse
02-16-2010, 08:52 PM
Go to this site: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/recallsearch.cfm and do a search for "recalls since first of month" you will quickly see that its is a deliberate attack against Toyota as there are 18 current recall, only 2 of which are the Toyota ones.

You don't hear the media talking about the BMW, Ford mustang, or Pontiac Vibe recalls to the extent (if at all) that they have constantly updated the Toyota story every day or less.

someperson
02-16-2010, 08:57 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if this negative attention is, in part, related to the backlash against the military bases over there.

FrankRep
02-17-2010, 07:11 PM
Toyota Considers Corolla Recall

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1964630,00.html


I wonder if Toyota can survive all this. wow.

Dark_Horse_Rider
02-17-2010, 07:55 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if this negative attention is, in part, related to the backlash against the military bases over there.

Sure looks like they pissed off someone doesn't it ?

TastyWheat
02-17-2010, 09:55 PM
Anybody else here anything like this...

My brother, who works for a dealership, told me the Toyotas made in Japan are fine. It's the one's that were manufactured in America that are having trouble.

puppetmaster
02-17-2010, 10:14 PM
Obvious attempt to do harm to Japan through Toyota. You must keep our Military bases or else.... Oh yea the Unions and our government own GM (Sachs also?) I will still buy Toyota ,especially now as they will be even better!

Liberty_Tree
02-17-2010, 10:21 PM
YouTube - Toyota is NOT the Problem. General Motors IS the Problem... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx6GZfrt39A)

ResistTemptation
02-17-2010, 10:48 PM
Hmm, think about it as I reflect on several of the past "Toyota" recalls:

Case 1. Toyota premature frame rusting. Blamed: Toyota. Cause: Quality control issues with an American parts supplier, Dana. The American company changed the anti-rust coating without consulting Toyota, resulting in thousands of recalls when the coating proved ineffective.

Case 2. Toyota accelerator recall. Blamed: Toyota. Cause: American manufacturer CTS altered Toyota's original design and used lower quality parts all to cut costs. It is suspected by some that CTS outsourced part manufacturing to China. Not surprising, Denso, a Japanese parts supplier, built the same type of accelerators for the same cars as CTS but no Denso built accelerators have caused problems. Hmmm.

I do believe that Toyota is partly at fault, but bashing Toyota wholly is to neglect the root cause of its more recent problems, American-sourced parts. It is American companies that are going to extremes to cut costs, maybe even pressuring unauthorized changes. The way I see it, American companies are fighting a losing battle as far as regulations go, and I see these types of quality issues as inevitable as this country collapses. The solution is, of course, a free market.

Dark_Horse_Rider
02-20-2010, 08:54 AM
This is how the state destroys and breaks the will of those that oppose it.

dwdollar
02-24-2010, 02:19 AM
Toyota hasn't been tithing Congress lately. That's really the central issue. Congress is like a pack of wolves hunting down those who haven't paid their lobby dues. Toyota will smarten up, open its wallet, and then this will all blow over.

cpike
02-24-2010, 02:47 AM
I had the wife of a manager at a local Toyota dealership, and she was absolutely livid. She is convinced it is nothing other than a plot to knock Toyota down to help support GM and the union wages. I do think there has been a gross over-reaction, people just need to chill. Heck there have been far worse recalls for "domestic" auto-makers as well. Cars are complicated pieces of machinery, things WILL go wrong. Get it fixed and move on, otherwise more will die from heart attacks of increased stress levels than from some stupid pedal.

silus
02-24-2010, 03:25 AM
YouTube - Toyota is NOT the Problem. General Motors IS the Problem... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx6GZfrt39A)
lol

Brian4Liberty
02-24-2010, 03:15 PM
I had the wife of a manager at a local Toyota dealership, and she was absolutely livid.

:D

Brian4Liberty
02-24-2010, 03:17 PM
Wall to wall coverage today of the House of Representatives of Government Motors destroying their competition...

Old Ducker
02-24-2010, 03:19 PM
My next car will be a Toyota.

DAFTEK
02-24-2010, 03:23 PM
Buy a FORD! Problem solved... ;)

Revolution_Ready
02-24-2010, 03:23 PM
A lot of smart money is pouring into Ford Stock right now. Think about it.

MelissaWV
02-24-2010, 04:53 PM
The recalls were perfectly valid, and the problem is not a little one.

I still don't know why Congress has to hold hearings about this, though. There have been recalls by various "domestic" car manufacturers, and there have even been foreign auto recalls for non-Toyota vehicles, and there is no big stink about those. I think the latest Honda recall was for a power steering issue.

The Chevy Malibu I had not terribly long ago was possessed. The thing had electrical issues, power steering issues, would run through brakes unusually fast, blew out tires unusually fast, and sometimes didn't feel like starting at all. Curiously, GM would send cute little mailers telling us that the car could be fixed if we brought it in; there was a known issue with such-and-such part. Do you know how dangerous it is for steering to change suddenly on a winding mountain road? It's not fun.

Vehicles have gone to hell since 1) the eco-friendly bullcrap went into effect, and 2) the computerization revolution. When I do get another car someday, it's going to be an older one that I can work on myself. It's a pity that parts are difficult to come by, but you certainly need them less often than in modern cars.

acptulsa
02-24-2010, 06:35 PM
What a dog and pony show! Mein Gott!! It's Audi all over again, with the sole difference being that Congress is sticking its fat nose in.

Ask any redneck sixteen year old boy and he'll tell you that no car ever built--ever--has an engine stronger than its brakes. Indeed, brakes tend to be in twice as many wheels as power application, and even in the case of the most ridiculous muscle car ever, the 1970 Chevelle SS454 with nearly seven and a half liters of displacement and measly little nine inch drum brakes as standard equipment, had brakes more than three times stronger than the engine. If you don't believe me, try this--take a car with an automatic (preferably not your own, parents' cars are the most commonly abused in this way), put it in drive, put a foot on each pedal, depress both to the floor, and see how much you have to release pressure on the brakes before the wheels start spinning out on the pavement.

Unintended acceleration is as big a threat as ogres and fire breathing dragons. Show me a victim of it and I'll show you someone who can't find their brake pedal.

MelissaWV
02-24-2010, 06:37 PM
What a dog and pony show! Mein Gott!! It's Audi all over again, with the sole difference being that Congress is sticking its fat nose in.

Ask any redneck sixteen year old boy and he'll tell you that no car ever built--ever--has an engine stronger than its brakes. Indeed, brakes tend to be in twice as many wheels as power application, and even in the case of the most ridiculous muscle car ever, the 1970 Chevelle SS454 with nearly seven and a half liters of displacement and measly little nine inch drum brakes as standard equipment, had brakes more than three times stronger than the engine. If you don't believe me, try this--take a car with an automatic (preferably not your own, parents' cars are the most commonly abused in this way), put it in drive, put a foot on each pedal, depress both to the floor, and see how much you have to release pressure on the brakes before the wheels start spinning out on the pavement.

Unintended acceleration is as big a threat as ogres and fire breathing dragons. Show me a victim of it and I'll show you someone who can't find their brake pedal.

Neutral: It's not just there for show.

acptulsa
02-24-2010, 06:42 PM
Neutral: It's not just there for show.

Absolutely. You seem to be a cool head in a crisis--props to you!

That said, gearshifts, like throttles, go through the computer these days, and they are alleging that the computers are going nuts. But those service brakes, still several times stronger than the driveline, are not dependent upon that computer.

RideTheDirt
02-24-2010, 06:45 PM
neutral: It's not just there for show.
this!

FrankRep
02-24-2010, 06:51 PM
Now that the Department of Transportation is opening a formal investigation into the 2009-2010 Toyota Corolla over possible steering problems while the government is continuing with hearings by the U.S. House Oversight and Government Reform Committee on February 24th, the House Energy and Commerce Committee on February 25th, and by the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee on March 2nd about Toyota’s “timely” response to braking and accelerator complaints, some are beginning to question “Why?”


Toyota — The Jihad Continues (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/2976-toyota-the-jihad-continues)


Bob Adelmann | The New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/)
18 February 2010


Ron Paul Forums:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=233316

Brian4Liberty
02-24-2010, 07:55 PM
some are beginning to question “Why?”

That is a good question.

Why is the Congress into this so aggressively?
- Unions?
- They own GM now and they want to put the competition out of business? (Conflict of interest)
- Drunk on the power of becoming fascist businessmen?
- Misguided attempt to prove they are punishing "corrupt" companies?
- Diverting attention from the real crooks like Goldman Sachs?
- Diverting attention from something else?

Why the media attention?
- Obama Administration asked them to cover it?
- Diverting attention from the real crooks like Goldman Sachs?
- Diverting attention from something else?

Lots of questions arise.

Brian Defferding
02-25-2010, 08:57 AM
Ron Hart at the OC Register writes: (http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/toyota-236069-politicians-global.html)


Toyota has also recalled that sanctimonious, smug look Prius drivers wear when they talk about how they are saving the earth, one trip to yoga class at a time! On the bright side, liberals are now victims, and they love that about as much.

In fact, this problem with electronic braking came about because of federal pressure through CAFE standards, forcing manufacturers to make lighter cars. As they often do, politicians point their fingers at Big Bad Business. Now a memo has come to light showing that Toyota cut a deal with its Washington regulators on the braking issue last year. As is often the case when politicians point fingers, at least three fingers are pointing right back at them.

The stark reality is that the industries we have had the most difficulty with – banking, insurance, airlines, mortgage lending, and now car companies – are the most regulated. Less regulated businesses that are more sensitive to market demands, like Wal-Mart, Coke, Google, Caterpillar and Home Depot, are doing fine.

Bossobass
02-25-2010, 10:23 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if this negative attention is, in part, related to the backlash against the military bases over there.

^^^This, no doubt in my mind.



Japan wants US military base out of Okinawa
Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:26:38 GMT
Font size :

A US jet takes off at Kadena US Air Force Base on Japan's southwestern island of Okinawa. Japan's Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama says he will devise a plan to relocate the US military airfield based in Okinawa as soon as possible.

Hatoyama made the remarks after a meeting with his foreign and defense ministers.

His government has called for the US to move its troops off the island, and even Japan altogether.

The new administration in Tokyo has also ordered an investigation into secret US-Japan deals ratified by previous governments.

IMO, it seems painfully obvious that the US has made deals for trade with Japan, Germany, Korea and OPEC whereby they got fabulously lucrative "free trade" deals in exchange for agreement to use a percentage of the profit to purchase US Debt as well as allowing large US military bases in their countries.

For example, South Korea is the world's largest flat screen TV manufacturer and just have a quick look at the "Free Trade" they enjoy: In 2008, SK shipped 600,000 cars to the US while they imported less than 7,000 cars from the US.

Top 5 auto producing countries? Japan, China, US, Germany and S. Korea. Largest US military presence? Iraq (who got no choices in their "deal"), Germany, Japan, S. Korea.

Funny how that all worked out."Free Trade" becomes "Trade Wars" when the host saps decide to renege.

Recently, China has balked at buying US debt. Then the US announces a large weapons deal with Taiwan, prompting China to dump US debt and threaten sanctions.

It's all about exporting US inflation and securing the deal (as well as the world's energy supplies) with the largest global military presence in earths history.

This is just the beginning to the transition to the NWO, again, IMHO. Really, a stuck gas pedal is irrelevant.

Bosso

Mike4Freedom
02-25-2010, 10:33 AM
I dont know if this was stated in this thread, but Toyota started having quality control problems as soon as the Japanese government cut the subsidies they were giving the automaker.

Their factories that are in the US are also given subsidies.

Here is the list of subsidies of all foreign automakers:

Honda, Marysville OH, 1980, $27 million*
Nissan, Smyrna, TN, 1980, $233 million**
Toyota, Georgetown, KY, 1985, $147 million
Honda, Anna, OH, 1985, $27 million*
Subaru, Lafayette, IN, 1986, $94 million
Honda, East Liberty, OH, 1987, $27 million*
BMW, Spartanburg, SC, 1992, $150 million
Mercedes-Benz, Vance, AL, 1993, $258 million
Toyota, Princeton, IN, 1995, $30 million
Nissan, Decherd, TN, 1995, $200 million**
Toyota, Buffalo, WV, 1996, more than $15 million
Honda, Lincoln, AL, 1999, $248 million
Nissan, Canton, MS, 2000, $295 million
Toyota, Huntsville, AL, 2001, $30 million
Hyundai, Montgomery, AL, 2002, $252 million
Toyota, San Antonio, TX, 2003, $133 million
Kia, West Point, GA, 2006, $400 million
Honda, Greensburg, IN, 2006, $141 million
Toyota, Blue Springs, MS, 2007, $300 million
Volkswagen, Chattanooga, TN, 2008, $577 million

Total: more than $3.58 billion

Also remember that in the 80s and 90s 20 - 50 million was a lot more money, but i dont have to tell you guys that.

Lets look at the whole picture here. Government intervention causes a lot of problems. Government intervention most likely caused the problems GM had to begin with. So like government does is they try to fix the problem buy throwing more money at it.

fisharmor
02-25-2010, 10:45 AM
Huh. I think if I was the CEO of Toyota, I'd fly to Washington and announce to congress that if they don't stop with the inquisition, I'd shut down every single factory and dealership in the US.
I bet that the hearings would come to an abrupt stop.

Matt Collins
02-25-2010, 11:32 AM
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x93/sonicspikesalbum/GM-Logo.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x93/sonicspikesalbum/GM-Logo2.jpg

Todd
02-25-2010, 11:44 AM
YouTube - you asked for it, you got it! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhD-oKJI69o)

acptulsa
02-26-2010, 03:14 PM
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x93/sonicspikesalbum/GM-Logo.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x93/sonicspikesalbum/GM-Logo2.jpg

And we all know how the government feels about competition, don't we?

By the way, folks, if you Toyota or (anything else) ever goes smooth nuts, and begins ignoring your throttle inputs and even your instructions about going into neutral, remember not only that the brake pedal doesn't go through the computer, but that the ignition key is still likely to kill the powerplant. So long as the gearshift is not in park, you can't turn the key far enough to engage the steering wheel security lock, so just turn the damned thing off.

Thrashertm
02-26-2010, 04:04 PM
Hmm, think about it as I reflect on several of the past "Toyota" recalls:

Case 1. Toyota premature frame rusting. Blamed: Toyota. Cause: Quality control issues with an American parts supplier, Dana. The American company changed the anti-rust coating without consulting Toyota, resulting in thousands of recalls when the coating proved ineffective.

Case 2. Toyota accelerator recall. Blamed: Toyota. Cause: American manufacturer CTS altered Toyota's original design and used lower quality parts all to cut costs. It is suspected by some that CTS outsourced part manufacturing to China. Not surprising, Denso, a Japanese parts supplier, built the same type of accelerators for the same cars as CTS but no Denso built accelerators have caused problems. Hmmm.

I do believe that Toyota is partly at fault, but bashing Toyota wholly is to neglect the root cause of its more recent problems, American-sourced parts. It is American companies that are going to extremes to cut costs, maybe even pressuring unauthorized changes. The way I see it, American companies are fighting a losing battle as far as regulations go, and I see these types of quality issues as inevitable as this country collapses. The solution is, of course, a free market.

Japanese "Kanban" style manufacturing, pioneered by Toyota, relies very heavily on having trustworthy suppliers that become integral partners in the manufacturing process. Just a tidbit I picked up in business school back in the day.

puppetmaster
03-10-2010, 10:33 AM
I call BS on these Toyota stories. You can tell by the 911 call by that guy in California is lying.

See easy money I am sure....there are several options for stopping a car under power. Try turning it off! Many new cars have button start...hold the freaking button down to shut it off....duh

MelissaWV
03-10-2010, 11:52 AM
I call BS on these Toyota stories. You can tell by the 911 call by that guy in California is lying.

See easy money I am sure....there are several options for stopping a car under power. Try turning it off! Many new cars have button start...hold the freaking button down to shut it off....duh

Actually, the car is designed to *not* shut off under a variety of circumstances... for instance, if the car is not in park. This was introduced to avoid people leaving their cars in neutral, shutting them off, getting out, and watching their car roll down a hill... or something idiotic along those lines.

Neutral tends to help, even if it's hellish on the car. People just entirely forget their cars have anything but R, D, and P, though some cars ALSO have a "safety mechanism" that prevents you from going into Neutral if there's a high RPM. Basically, newer cars are prone to this sort of mess, and shutting the car off isn't really an option the way it used to be. Even if you were able to, I might point out that your power steering goes away, which for many people would mean an absolute inability to avoid approaching obstacles.

Neutral, brakes (both regular and emergency), steer and use the terrain (rumble strips are great for slowing down... they're also a great trick to deal with icy conditions that leave you skidding a bit). Once you stop, shut the car off, and for good measure get the hell away from it (those hot brakes really can spark a fire).

I don't know if it's "bullshit" because people forget those things when they panic. In fact, people lose a lot of their sense when they panic. The mechanical issue does exist, obviously, but I think what's been lost is that it's a symptom of the much larger problems with overly computerized cars that have all these "for your safety" features that can combine to make it difficult to fix things when they do go horribly wrong.

Brian4Liberty
03-10-2010, 12:28 PM
I call BS on these Toyota stories. You can tell by the 911 call by that guy in California is lying.


Yeah, that guy's story is a little suspicious. He said he didn't want to "try" to shift into neutral? He has to "focus on the road", but he has time to make cell phone calls?


Actually, the car is designed to *not* shut off under a variety of circumstances... though some cars ALSO have a "safety mechanism" that prevents you from going into Neutral if there's a high RPM. Basically, newer cars are prone to this sort of mess...

You never know what they are building into new cars these days. Everything is computer controlled, and we know how perfect computers are. :rolleyes: Then you get some spokesman or executive on TV who absolutely guarantees that there are no electronic problems. It is a subject that the technical people can't be 100% sure of, and these guys just lie right to our faces. Forget this "drive by wire" BS. I'll take an old-fashioned mechanical system any day.

acptulsa
03-15-2010, 04:07 PM
Actually, the car is designed to *not* shut off under a variety of circumstances... for instance, if the car is not in park. This was introduced to avoid people leaving their cars in neutral, shutting them off, getting out, and watching their car roll down a hill... or something idiotic along those lines.

Unless they've changed the law this very year, that's not quite true. You can turn the key far enough to kill the engine, but you can't turn it far enough to lock the steering (or lock the automatic tranny shifter out of park instead of in park), and you can't turn it far enough to remove the key. I'd be very, very surprised (and extremely dismayed) if they changed that, as this is the very sort of situation that led to the standard design.

Please do not be afraid to try this if your engine ever fails to respond to your commands. Go to the key first and ask questions later.

MelissaWV
03-15-2010, 04:22 PM
Unless they've changed the law this very year, that's not quite true. You can turn the key far enough to kill the engine, but you can't turn it far enough to lock the steering (or lock the automatic tranny shifter out of park instead of in park), and you can't turn it far enough to remove the key. I'd be very, very surprised (and extremely dismayed) if they changed that, as this is the very sort of situation that led to the standard design.

Please do not be afraid to try this if your engine ever fails to respond to your commands. Go to the key first and ask questions later.

From Toyota's website:


Myth: In the event you encounter a runaway vehicle, the first thing you should do is to turn off the ignition.

Fact: Although turning off the ignition is a possible course of action, the first thing a driver should do is to put the transmission in Neutral. This separates the driveline from the wheels, and gives the driver instant speed control over the vehicle, and allows the driver time to assess what is happening. This also allows continued use of the power steering and brake systems for an easier stopping operation. Pressing the start/stop button to turn off the ignition can be done as a next step. This will shut down power assist to the brakes and steering system – reducing their performance, but the driver can still brake and steer the vehicle manually in this condition.

You can still drive without power steering (I've had to do it in the past), but at the speeds a "runaway" vehicle would be going, I wouldn't really recommend it. The first course of action is Neutral and steady braking, but people freak out, start pumping their brakes (that's a really bad idea), and do stupid things :(



Traditional key type ignitions systems can be turned off while the vehicle is moving without locking the steering column – as long as the key is left in the ignition. Removal of the key may result in a locked steering column, and hamper driver steering control. After placing the transmission in Neutral, and the vehicle is brought to a stop at the side of the road, the final step should be to turn of the ignition.

You are right, though; I was thinking of cars I have where the keys don't come out if the car isn't in park, not ignition staying on unless it's in park. :o

acptulsa
03-23-2010, 09:43 AM
You can still drive without power steering (I've had to do it in the past), but at the speeds a "runaway" vehicle would be going, I wouldn't really recommend it. The first course of action is Neutral and steady braking, but people freak out, start pumping their brakes (that's a really bad idea), and do stupid things :(

That's a point, but remember that the shift lever on an automatic tranny isn't directly connected to anything but the computer these days--and if the computer has lost its little mind, you want a way around it. So, yes, neutral first, but have a Plan B and a Plan C. Even back in the day when automatics had direct linkage, it went to the valve body (basically a hydraulic computer) and not directly to any gears. Hopefully, no auto maker is stupid enough to risk the liability they expose themselves to when they refuse to put a proper kill switch in a vehicle and give the humans inside one option guaranteed to work... :rolleyes:

Oh, and you don't really miss power steering at speed. It's in the parking lot that a lack of power steering will test your bicep strength; at highway speeds you don't need it at all.