General libertarian view of Reagan?

[New2Libertarianism]

How do most libertarians (here) view our 40th president?

[TheState]

He talked a good game prior to becoming president. Very disappointing once he got there. Dramatically grew government, huge defense spending, all the possible illegal activities, etc...

[Bruno]

He talked a good game prior to becoming president. Very disappointing after he got shot. Dramatically grew government, huge defense spending, all the possible illegal activities, etc...

fixed in bold?

[CharlesTX]

I think the "realities" of Washington got to him...and early on. Especially the gun shot.

[Stary Hickory]

I think the "realities" of Washington got to him...and early on. Especially the gun shot.

Exactly, it's not as if you become king once you are appointed President. He had a Democratically controlled congress to confront, and he was mired in the cold war, which dictated military spending. On hindsight I think it's obvious that military spending was wasteful, but at the time the threat seemed real to most Americans.

[MelissaWV]

He looks dead to me. What are we looking at?

[Bruno]

Exactly, it's not as if you become king once you are appointed President. He had a Democratically controlled congress to confront, and he was mired in the cold war, which dictated military spending. On hindsight I think it's obvious that military spending was wasteful, but at the time the threat seemed real to most Americans.

At the time many people thought the Cold War spending was wasteful as well. We each had enough bombs to destroy the other country many times over.

[slothman]

On the "who would take a picture with Reagan" thread I didn't choose Ron Paul.
It was because the two are different politically.
RR is definitely not a libertarian.
How did RR fare during his tenure as gov. of CA?

[Nemesis]

He talked a good game prior to becoming president. Very disappointing once he got there. Dramatically grew government, huge defense spending, all the possible illegal activities, etc...

Damn straight. Obama is a friggen libertarian compared to Reagan.

[AggieforPaul]

Picking CFR man Bush 41 as VP was the first in a series of compromises he made at the expense of his beliefs. I think he was the best in a series of awful modern presidents.

[paulitics]

Reagan was an actor that fooled alot of people.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

He killed the libertarian movement in the 70s by stealing our talking points and then doing the exact opposite in every area. I do not like RR whatsoever.

[MN Patriot]

RWR certainly was opposed to socialism:
YouTube - Ronald Reagan speaks out on Socialized Medicine - Audio (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYrlDlrLDSQ)

I am astounded that an actor would speak out against socialism. If any actor did this today, there would be riots in Hollywood.

[MichelleHeart]

Damn straight. Obama is a friggen libertarian compared to Reagan.

What the...? :confused:

Reagan had a flawed presidency, but Obama...

[Justinjj1]

The patron saint of the neocons. In my opinion he's in the top 5 worst presidents of all time, along with Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, and LBJ. Just an absolutely awful human being.

[MichelleHeart]

For all the criticisms I have of Reagan, I can't seem to find it in myself to think of him as a horrible human being. Ron Paul himself was a critic of the Reagan presidency, and even he doesn't think Reagan was an evil man:
________________________________________________

Remembering Ronald Reagan

(Representative Ron Paul in the congressional record, Wednesday June 9th)

Mr. Speaker, all Americans mourn the death of President Ronald Reagan, but those of us who had the opportunity to know him are especially saddened. I got to know President Reagan in 1976 when, as a freshman congressman, I was one of only four members of that body to endorse then-Governor Reagan’s primary challenge to President Gerald Ford. I had the privilege of serving as the leader of President Reagan’s Texas delegation at the Republican convention of 1976, where Ronald Reagan almost defeated an incumbent president for his party’s nomination.

I was one of the millions attracted to Ronald Reagan by his strong support for limited government and the free-market. I felt affinity for a politician who based his conservative philosophy on “… a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom…” I wish more of today’s conservative leaders based their philosophy on a desire for less government and more freedom.

Ronald Reagan was one of the most eloquent exponents of the freedom philosophy in modern American politics. One of his greatest achievements was converting millions of Americans to the freedom philosophy; many he inspired became active in the freedom movement. One of the best examples of President Reagan’s rhetorical powers was his first major national political address, “A Time for Choosing.” Delivered in 1964 in support of the Goldwater presidential campaign, this speech launched Ronald Reagan’s career as both a politician and a leader of the conservative movement. The following excerpt from that speech illustrates the power of Ronald Reagan’s words and message. Unfortunately, these words are as relevant to our current situation as they were when he delivered them in 1964:

It's time we asked ourselves if we still know the freedoms intended for us by the Founding Fathers. James Madison said, "We base all our experiments on the capacity of mankind for self-government."

This idea - that government was beholden to the people, that it had no other source of power - is still the newest, most unique idea in all the long history of man's relation to man. This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American Revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capital can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves.

You and I are told we must choose between a left or right, but I suggest there is no such thing as a left or right. There is only an up or down. Up to man's age-old dream - the maximum of individual freedom consistent with order, or down to the ant heap of totalitarianism.

Regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would sacrifice freedom for security have embarked on this downward path. Plutarch warned, "The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits."

The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government set out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose. So we have come to a time for choosing.

One of the most direct expressions of Ronald Reagan’s disdain for big government came during a private conversation I shared with him when flying from the White House to Andrews Air Force Base. As the helicopter passed over the monuments, we looked down and he said, “Isn’t that beautiful? It’s amazing how much terrible stuff comes out of this city when it’s that beautiful.”

While many associate Ronald Reagan with unbridled militarism, he was a lifelong opponent of the draft. It is hardly surprising that many of the most persuasive and powerful arguments against conscription came from President Reagan. One of my favorite Reagan quotes comes from a 1979 article he wrote for the conservative publication Human Events regarding the draft and related “national service” proposals:

“...it [conscription] rests on the assumption that your kids belong to the state. If we buy that assumption then it is for the state- not for parents, the community, the religious institutions or teachers- to decide who shall have what values and who shall do what work, when, where and how in our society. That assumption isn’t a new one. The Nazis thought it was a great idea.”

I extend my deepest sympathies to Ronald Reagan’s family and friends, especially his beloved wife Nancy and his children. I also urge my colleagues and all Americans to honor Ronald Reagan by dedicating themselves to the principles of limited government and individual liberty.

[__27__]

I am astounded that an actor would speak out against socialism. If any actor did this today, there would be riots in Hollywood.

Hollywood used to be much different than it is today:

http://www.hornbeak.com/pgh/html/images/am1952.jpg


No that's not an outfit from wardrobe, that's the most decorated soldier in American history, Audie Murphy, Hollywood actor. Left acting to fight in WWII.

[Justinjj1]

Yeah, he spoke real nice about limited government, freedom, blah blah blah. But actions speak louder than words. He was the Sarah Palin of his day, basically an empty suit that was controlled by the powers behind the scenes. A nice charasmatic figure that spoke in platitudes about less government and then did exactly the opposite once in power.

[Stary Hickory]

The patron saint of the neocons. In my opinion he's in the top 5 worst presidents of all time, along with Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, and LBJ. Just an absolutely awful human being.

This is absurd

[RJT]

The patron saint of the neocons. In my opinion he's in the top 5 worst presidents of all time, along with Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, and LBJ. Just an absolutely awful human being.

Worse than Truman, Nixon and W?

I don't think so.

[RedStripe]

Reagan sucked.

[haaaylee]

YouTube - Ronald Reagan Speech - 1964 Republican National Convention (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt1fYSAChxs)

[Brett]

I can think of one good point; he showed that cutting taxes helps the economy. (Although JFK did it too).

Then he drove up the deficit, doubled spending, illegal wars, anti-drug, etc.

[TCE]

Good: Deregulated a few industries, airlines being one of them, if I remember correctly. Cut taxes.

Bad: Escalated war with USSR, spent massively on defense, expanded debt to unseen levels, illegal activities, didn't hold up to campaign promises.

Pretty terrible, but everyone after him was worse.

[haaaylee]

My grandfather was good friends with Reagan (and Bush Senior as well.) He actually came up with "Hugs not Drugs"

He had boxes of pens with that slogan on them in his office. And every paper i wrote was written with one of those pens, including the paper i wrote declaring Reagan as my favorite president.

Although, i chose him only because he used to be a movie star and at the time i was a huge "I Love Lucy" fan during the time she went to Hollywood with Ricky.

[jbuttell]

Yeah, he spoke real nice about limited government, freedom, blah blah blah. But actions speak louder than words. He was the Sarah Palin of his day, basically an empty suit that was controlled by the powers behind the scenes. A nice charasmatic figure that spoke in platitudes about less government and then did exactly the opposite once in power.

Sarah Palin.... hah, right.

[__27__]

Was Reagan perfect? Nope. Did he go back on many of his principles? Yep. So did Jefferson, so did Kennedy, most of the others never had principles to begin with. I love where his heart was, but I loathe where he governed.

At least he had balls to stand up to the unions. PATCO (air traffic control) decided their cush gig wasn't cush enough and thought they could "Bring America to it's knees" by striking. RR gave them 48 hours to report to work, and out of 13,000 he fired 11,500. Tell me another president with balls like that.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Nice speech.

[MichelleHeart]

I love where his heart was, but I loathe where he governed.

That's how I feel, too. My admiration for Reagan as a man and a messenger is there, but as a president, I feel much differently. His presidency was more talk than walk. What I have noticed, though, is that his speeches are a great educational tool. I got someone to completely rethink many of their positions by watching this video:

YouTube - Yes, we can (Reagan Remix) v2.0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX8X_FsBCDk)

It's a shame he didn't cut down the size of government the way Harding and Coolidge did.

[Danke]

Good: Deregulated a few industries, airlines being one of them, if I remember correctly.

No, that was Carter. But airlines remain one of the most regulated and taxed industries.

[__27__]

No, that was Carter. But airlines remain one of the most regulated and taxed industries.

Yes, but could you imagine if routes were still controlled and handed out in monopoly status by FedGov? It's FAR from perfect as is, but the only reason airlines like Delta, Northwest, et al are even around is because at one point in time they gladhanded enough to have a route handed to them, guaranteeing them business. And I'm not even touching price controls on airfare.

[AParadigmShift]

he showed that cutting taxes. . .


Cut taxes.

This is Reagan's [ugly] legacy - or myth rather, the one that neoconservative Republicans hold out as gospel to be preached far and wide.

However, while Reagan did make cuts in upper-income taxes, they were more than offset by increases in the Social Security tax - an increase borne by the middle class. Then we have the Tax Reform Act of 1986 that managed to extinguish tax deductions that benefited the middle class, yet, again, cut upper-income taxes.

Or, to view it another way, during Reagan's turn at the helm, gov't receipts increased by a whopping 103% (and even at that fevered clip, revenues were outpaced by the growth of gov't - hence the deficit spending) and as Murray Rothbard quipped, "whatever that is, that is not a tax cut."

And what does it matter if you "cut" taxes yet enlarge gov't to a hitherto unimaginable scope, grow the debt to eye-popping proportions and engage in irresponsible deficit spending?

No, Reagan was certainly not a libertarian, and by any honest accounting, he wasn't a trueconservative either. However, he was the rickety bridge by which social conservatives and chicken-hawks alike (the great neoconservative horde) crossed over to all but destroy whatever vestiges of old right, paleo-conservative sympathies were yet gimping about.

[NYgs23]

If you could separate his rhetoric from the rest of him and make the rhetoric his entire legacy, it would be a great legacy. Unfortunately, after his first year or two, his presidency was a mess. I consider Clinton a less bad president.

However, according to Murray Rothbard (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard50.html) he was even a bad governor, so you can't really use the "Washington corrupted him" excuse:


Reagan’s record as governor of California – where he had absolutely no access to the nuclear button – was all too moderate. Despite his bravado about having stopped the growth of state government, the actual story is that the California budget grew by 122 percent during his eight years as governor, not much of an improvement on the growth rate of 130 percent during the preceding two terms of free-spending liberal Pat Brown. The state bureaucracy increased during Reagan’s administration from 158,000 to 192,000, a rise of nearly 22 percent – hardly squaring with Reagan’s boast of having "stopped the bureaucracy cold."

Neither is Reagan’s record on taxes any comfort. He started off with a bang by increasing state taxes nearly $1 billion in his first year in office – the biggest tax increase in California history. Income, sales, corporate, bank, liquor, and cigarette taxes were all boosted dramatically. Two more tax hikes – in 1971 and 1972 – raised revenues by another $500 million and $700 million respectively.

By the end of Reagan’s eight years, state income taxes had nearly tripled, from a bite of $7.68 per $1000 of personal income to $19.48. During his administration, California rose in a ranking of the states from twentieth to thirteenth in personal income tax collection per capita, and it rose from fourth to first in per capita revenue from corporate income taxes. As John Vickerman, chief deputy in the legislative analyst’s office in Sacramento, concluded: "Obviously, the tax bite went up under the Reagan regime. It was a significant increase even when you start considering inflationary dollars.... The rate of growth was about the same as his predecessor."

The more charitable interpretation is that he believed in freedom as an abstract ideal, but was completely inept at practically implementing it. The less charitable interpretation is that he was a barefaced liar. Take your pick.

[NYgs23]

No that's not an outfit from wardrobe, that's the most decorated soldier in American history, Audie Murphy, Hollywood actor. Left acting to fight in WWII.

He didn't become an actor until after the war.

[AuH20]

Yeah, he spoke real nice about limited government, freedom, blah blah blah. But actions speak louder than words. He was the Sarah Palin of his day, basically an empty suit that was controlled by the powers behind the scenes. A nice charasmatic figure that spoke in platitudes about less government and then did exactly the opposite once in power.

you're comparing Reagan to Palin? Reagan is overrated but Palin?!!?:confused: Palin could not hold a candle to Reagan on a lectern or during a general Q&A session.

[johnrocks]

He talked a good game prior to becoming president. Very disappointing once he got there. Dramatically grew government, huge defense spending, all the possible illegal activities, etc...

My thoughts exactly although I voted for him both times and still don't regret it unlike the two days I curse voting for Bush;actually 4 days counting PaPa Bush:p