**video** Maddow discussing Ron Paul, & Tea Party

[JK/SEA]

Thanks to Mrocked.


YouTube - Is The Tea Party Movement Trying To Get Rid Of Ron Paul? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqTkt1iX1fM)

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

That was actually pretty good. I guess a crow can have a good segment once in a blue moon :p

[catdd]

The TEA-O-CON Party is NOT the Tea Party!
Get it right Rachel.

[jmdrake]

I was pleasantly surprised to see somebody in the MSM depart from the "Rick Santorum and Glenn Beck created the tea parties" meme.

[Brian4Liberty]

They say that DeMint and McCain are together? Hmmm. Someone better tell the SCF and NRSC to quit opposing each other in the Primaries...

[IPSecure]

The Tea Party movement is more one of conservative McCain, conservative Palin voters...
I call absolute BS, co-opted to the core.

[Slutter McGee]

Really he only mistake he made was not realizing that the tea-parties are a mix of traditional conservatives and libertarian leaning conservatives who are putting aside their differences on social issues in order to save this country. That is why moderate Republicans, whom enjoyed more support from libertarians on domestic and foreign issues are now being left behind.

Frankly I think this is proof that we may have the power to sway the Republican Party towards liberty on both fiscal and social issues. I just don't see how we can do them both at the same time.

Slutter McGee

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Really he only mistake he made was not realizing that the tea-parties are a mix of traditional conservatives and libertarian leaning conservatives who are putting aside their differences on social issues in order to save this country. That is why moderate Republicans, whom enjoyed more support from libertarians on domestic and foreign issues are now being left behind.

Frankly I think this is proof that we may have the power to sway the Republican Party towards liberty on both fiscal and social issues. I just don't see how we can do them both at the same time.

Slutter McGee

I don't understand how people believe that social and fiscal issues are seperate. They are one and the same! Much like people falsely believe that liberty is seperated between economic and social. There is only one liberty!

How much do you think the War on Drugs costs us? How much do you think the FDA costs us? What kind of incentives on societal behavior do you think Welfare encourages?

[moonshineplease]

Good coverage but he could have explained the situation a little better. O well.

[RileyE104]

YouTube - Is The Tea Party Movement Trying To Get Rid Of Ron Paul? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqTkt1iX1fM)

I am so PISSED after seeing this video.. I do NOT want to be associated with this garbage anymore... I HATE THE MEDIA MACHINE!!!!! Is it at all possible to STEAL OUR MOVEMENT BACK and out of the hands of the Neo-Cons????

[..PAUL4PRES..]

YouTube - Is The Tea Party Movement Trying To Get Rid Of Ron Paul? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqTkt1iX1fM&feature=sub)

I dont know what to time about this crap.

[RileyE104]

lol you and me posted the same thing at the same time...

I AM SO TIRED OF THIS CRAP. I WANT TO SMACK THE COUNTRY IN THE FACE AND TELL THEM TO QUIT LETTING THE MEDIA DO THEIR THINKING..

[..PAUL4PRES..]

Lol. This is the second night in a row when I have posted the same thing at the same time as someone else.:D

[RideTheDirt]

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[RileyE104]

I hate this.. Ron Paul and his campaign gave me so much hope.. Now the media is destroying it. Ignorant "Republican/Conservatives" (Neo-Cons, RINOs, whatever you wanna call them) who are mad that their party lost power to Obama have infiltrated this movement and destroyed it.

I saw it from the get go.. From the very first "Tea Party" after Obama took office. The way the Media reported on it.. I knew and we all knew just what they had planned for it. I'm devastated at the fact that they're getting away with it. If something isn't done on our behalf, C4L's behalf, and just all Libertarian/3rd Party supporters, AND SOON, I have a feeling that our last chance at changing this country for the better will be lost. :(

We have to define our movement NOW and make it known. I just wish I could do something... I don't want to live the rest of my life reminiscing about how close we came...

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I hate this.. Ron Paul and his campaign gave me so much hope.. Now the media is destroying it. Ignorant "Republican/Conservatives" (Neo-Cons, RINOs, whatever you wanna call them) who are mad that their party lost power to Obama have infiltrated this movement and destroyed it.

I saw it from the get go.. From the very first "Tea Party" after Obama took office. The way the Media reported on it.. I knew and we all knew just what they had planned for it. I'm devastated at the fact that they're getting away with it. If something isn't done on our behalf, C4L's behalf, and just all Libertarian/3rd Party supporters, AND SOON, I have a feeling that our last chance at changing this country for the better will be lost. :(

I don't think many of us believed that there would be some sort of libertarian enlightenment in politics. There has been in recorded history very little times where liberty was achieved through political action. The only way we are going to regain our lost liberty is through Independence. Severing political bonds and starting anew. Whether it be another Minarchist society, or a Voluntaryist one. That isn't to say that political action is unnecessary. To the contrary, it can be of great benefit for educational purposes, and is why I still involve myself. It is also why I hold a stringent no holds bar grip on my principles and will never compromise.

[JK/SEA]

I hate this.. Ron Paul and his campaign gave me so much hope.. Now the media is destroying it. Ignorant "Republican/Conservatives" (Neo-Cons, RINOs, whatever you wanna call them) who are mad that their party lost power to Obama have infiltrated this movement and destroyed it.

I saw it from the get go.. From the very first "Tea Party" after Obama took office. The way the Media reported on it.. I knew and we all knew just what they had planned for it. I'm devastated at the fact that they're getting away with it. If something isn't done on our behalf, C4L's behalf, and just all Libertarian/3rd Party supporters, AND SOON, I have a feeling that our last chance at changing this country for the better will be lost. :(

Relax. It ain't over till its over. I see LOTS stuff going on nationwide. Pockets of resistance, and minor victories. They are starting to add up bigtime.

[InterestedParticipant]

I am so PISSED after seeing this video.. I do NOT want to be associated with this garbage anymore... I HATE THE MEDIA MACHINE!!!!! Is it at all possible to STEAL OUR MOVEMENT BACK and out of the hands of the Neo-Cons????
You're being assimilated.

And people scoff at me when I talk about group manipulation techniques. Maddow is a Rhodes Scholar, she would have been trained by some of the best elite servants available on propaganda techniques and manipulation.

We're sitting ducks for them and their techniques. They've corralled the group and now are picking off the "leaders" while simultaneously introducing new "leader" who really have alternate loyalties.

The only answer to this, is what was always the answer.

1. do not collate into groups
2. create a strong but disassociated network with no head
3. idolize no leader and do not become branded by any one individual
4. stay strong to a set of principles, and consistently evoke them
5. ignore the propaganda machine, and certainly do not feed it.
6. attack anyone who claims that they are a leader of this collection of individuals who agree on said set of principles.

Do we have the maturity to achieve this, that is really the question.

[BenIsForRon]

He was trying to explain it well for viewers that haven't been following the development of the movement. He failed, but I'm glad they're trying.

If we can Rand elected, though, I imagine we'll be getting even more attention, and people will latch on to the movement (liberty movement, not tea party) because they will understand that it is a genuine, grass roots effort. Rand will be a very different kind of senator, and I guarantee he will turn a lot of heads if he can get in there.

[RileyE104]

Relax. It ain't over till its over. I see LOTS stuff going on nationwide. Pockets of resistance, and minor victories. They are starting to add up bigtime.

You're right.. It's just hard for me because I ALREADY KNOW what this is about. But there are people out there who don't and the MEDIA is much better equipped to get to them than we are. How can we compete with such a large propaganda machine? It's not like all of America watches YouTube.

[LibertyEagle]

I hate this.. Ron Paul and his campaign gave me so much hope.. Now the media is destroying it. Ignorant "Republican/Conservatives" (Neo-Cons, RINOs, whatever you wanna call them) who are mad that their party lost power to Obama have infiltrated this movement and destroyed it.

I saw it from the get go.. From the very first "Tea Party" after Obama took office. The way the Media reported on it.. I knew and we all knew just what they had planned for it. I'm devastated at the fact that they're getting away with it. If something isn't done on our behalf, C4L's behalf, and just all Libertarian/3rd Party supporters, AND SOON, I have a feeling that our last chance at changing this country for the better will be lost. :(

We have to define our movement NOW and make it known. I just wish I could do something... I don't want to live the rest of my life reminiscing about how close we came...

Why do you care what Maddow says? The media has been co-opted for a very long time.

Stay true to your beliefs and the message.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

You're right.. It's just hard for me because I ALREADY KNOW what this is about. But there are people out there who don't and the MEDIA is much better equipped to get to them than we are. How can we compete with such a large propaganda machine? It's not like all of America watches YouTube.

3% fought and won the Revolutionary War. Do not concern yourself about the majority. As long as there is a loud and vociferous minority I have conviction and hope that liberty will reign supreme sometime in the future. Whether I live to see it is of no consequence. As long as my posterity is a free people that is all I care about.

The Media is owned by the largest of the large Corporations. They also are very rigid about who gets to join their little propaganda club. They will keep doing what they do best, hence why I generally ignore them. I also want to reiterate that we, as individuals are the best to convert people. One on one talks. Getting with local liberty groups such as Liberty on the Rocks, We Are Change, local patriot Militia, etc.

[RileyE104]

2. create a strong but disassociated network with no head
3. idolize no leader and do not become branded by any one individual
4. stay strong to a set of principles, and consistently evoke them
5. ignore the propaganda machine, and certainly do not feed it.
6. attack anyone who claims that they are a leader of this collection of individuals who agree on said set of principles.

Do we have the maturity to achieve this, that is really the question.

I understand, but I guess it's just because I discovered this when I was in 10th grade.. Just like everyone else, RP is like a grandfather to me.. It's hard to not want him as the leader. Especially when the Media is trying to push Palin as the leader and now trying to get Paul thrown out of office.

I've always done my best to disregard the propaganda, but this video was just too over the top.


Anyways, sorry for the temporary fit I just threw.. :p
I just needed to get this anger off my chest.

[..PAUL4PRES..]

I understand, but I guess it's just because I discovered this when I was in 10th grade.. Just like everyone else, RP is like a grandfather to me.. It's hard to not want him as the leader. Especially when the Media is trying to push Palin as the leader and now trying to get Paul thrown out of office.

I've always done my best to disregard the propaganda, but this video was just too over the top.


Anyways, sorry for the temporary fit I just threw.. :p
I just needed to get this anger off my chest.


Some of us new Libertarian mined people expected fast results. Some of the people in this movement including Ron Paul have been fighting for the cause for a long time. Its just kind of discouraging to have so much hope in our fellow man and to be let down. Like others have said we win out eventually. It will probably have to get a lot worse before the majority catches on or it may be never. But I will always stay faithful to what this experience has taught me. The individual rules supreme and the cause of liberty is just.

[Pauls' Revere]

This is posted on C4L website: Ron Paul interviewed on "The Takeaway"

YouTube - 2/5/10 Ron Paul on The Takeaway: The Tea Party Movement (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je5u37NgiUY&feature=player_embedded#)

Just can't figure why he hasn't or didn't step up and grab the reigns of the Tea party?

Here's an interview with Rand Paul on CNN where he gives credit to the Tea Party.

YouTube - 2/5/10 Rand Paul on CNN: Welcome to the Tea Party! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4lE3kdkkXo&feature=channel)

[dannno]

Why do you care what Maddow says? The media has been co-opted for a very long time.

Stay true to your beliefs and the message.

That's what I thought about the OP at first, then I did a double-take and realized that they were happy that Maddow was talking about this and is upset that the tea party movement has been co-opted by neocons.

[eok321]

It should not be difficult to educate people who the real founder of the Tea Party is..whether we can educate enough people by this time next year is the big question.

There are groups out there that will be key to winning this battle.

1. Any Republican that isn't a blood thirsty NeoCon will know from the 2008 race that Ron Paul is the only Republican talking about the Real issues-especially the Economy.

2. Anti War Democrats/Independants disillusioned with Obama's failed promises will be ripe for transferring their support to Paul in 2012.

If in the age of the Internet & a hard working grassroots we cant win this battle under the current circumstances i will be devastated. All it takes is to keep hammering home the message and people 18 months from now will surely get it.


Or at least i hope they will:o


http://www.carlbork.com/images/ronpaul/2012.jpg

[Pauls' Revere]

Really he only mistake he made was not realizing that the tea-parties are a mix of traditional conservatives and libertarian leaning conservatives who are putting aside their differences on social issues in order to save this country. That is why moderate Republicans, whom enjoyed more support from libertarians on domestic and foreign issues are now being left behind.

Frankly I think this is proof that we may have the power to sway the Republican Party towards liberty on both fiscal and social issues. I just don't see how we can do them both at the same time.

Slutter McGee

You know after watching this and reading articles and postings I've come to this conclusion. So, this is what happens when we hit the mainstream. Perhaps were there and as Ron said we are running the risk of being dilluted or can we sway the GOP to our side? I can't stand the war hawks in the Tea Party or any party for that matter and am upset that Palin deems herself the leader of it. Why did she not support Ron Paul during 2008? if she is that devoted to the issues where was she in 2008? That's right she backed McCain. Could the Tea Party seriously grab the Libertarians, some GOP, Dems and Independents and form a third party? Ron has got to set up and set the platform which the other parties abandoned long ago. I also feel the Perot effect happening again and hope to hell the third rail gives the establishment a run in 2012.

I've also noticed that the language the MSM is using has changed. No longer are they calling this/us kooks and fringe which to me supports that Palin pulls the movement toward the middle or the typical neo con stance. I'm frustrated as to why they decided to have her sign on and support Rand???? Dam it!

[Slutter McGee]

I don't understand how people believe that social and fiscal issues are seperate. They are one and the same! Much like people falsely believe that liberty is seperated between economic and social. There is only one liberty!

How much do you think the War on Drugs costs us? How much do you think the FDA costs us? What kind of incentives on societal behavior do you think Welfare encourages?

Its not that they are fundamentally separate, its that a majority of people see them as seperate. If your ultimate goal is a anarchist utopia protected from the state of nature only by social norms, then you may be philosophically sound, yet you still must recognize that such a thing is extremely unlikely. As there is no practical way to accomplish this through political means, you are more likely to support change through education. There is NOTHING wrong with this.

However, if ones intention is simply a Federal Government that leaves us alone, protects our property and has a strong military for defensive purposes, then a political approach is much more possible. As such, there is nothing wrong with attatching ourselves with national movements when it is beneficial to liberty. There is nothing wrong with recognizing where liberty is being attacked the most, and making inroads in that area when given the chance. In this case, it is fiscal issues.

If the tea party starts promoting socially conservative ideas or neoconservative interventionism, then it will become necessary to seperate ourselves from the movement as it will damage the credibility and integrity of our cause. But as long as people seperate economic liberty and personal liberty, attacking them one at a time will sometimes be necessary.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[axiomata]

In the early days of the Tea Party movement, after Ron Paul's version but before the Republican establishment interest in it, Maddow did all she could to paint it is a group of ignorant Republican protesting a new black president.

We should not be surprised that it did not take long for real ignorant Republicans to feel that such a movement was where they belonged and thus joined and co-opted in bulk.

[Reason]

New Southern Avenger Video Covering "Sarah Palin's Bad Tea" (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=230454)

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=230454 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=230454)

[payme_rick]

2. Anti War Democrats/Independants disillusioned with Obama's failed promises will be ripe for transferring their support to Paul in 2012.



a very good group for us to go after...

[constituent]

In the early days of the Tea Party movement, after Ron Paul's version but before the Republican establishment interest in it, Maddow did all she could to paint it is a group of ignorant Republican protesting a new black president.

We should not be surprised that it did not take long for real ignorant Republicans to feel that such a movement was where they belonged and thus joined and co-opted in bulk.


and here we find ourselves again playing the "we're not neo-cons sware to gawd" game.

i'm having flashbacks to 2007...

[constituent]

a very good group for us to go after...

which is, at least in part, what the whole tea party spiel was designed to prevent. just imho, of course.

[LittleLightShining]

which is, at least in part, what the whole tea party spiel was designed to prevent. just imho, of course.

C4L can't do it anymore, either. At least not with any credibility.

[catdd]

I think it's more important to educate the people on what a neocon is. I think if more people knew the history and agenda of those people the Tea Party would be more receptive to the idea of non-intervention. If the neocon agenda was stripped from the Tea Parties there wouldn't be so much of an issue of who founded it or who it belongs too; it would become everyone's Tea Party.
The neocons are the core problem and I vote we take an active role in doing everything within our means to rid the TP of that menace.

[AuH20]

I think it's more important to educate the people on what a neocon is. I think if more people knew the history and agenda of those people the Tea Party would be more receptive to the idea of non-intervention. If the neocon agenda was stripped from the Tea Parties there wouldn't be so much of an issue of who founded it or who it belongs too; it would become everyone's Tea Party.
The neocons are the core problem.

And that would start with people on this forum as well who misuse the word "neocon" repeatedly. There is a difference between a full-fledged neocon and conservative republicans who gravitate towards Willsonian foreign policy goals, for whatever reason, whether it be an attractions towards the maintenance of the national security illusion or validating the sacrifice of their loved ones in the military. Not everyone who disagrees with Ron Paul on foreign policy goals is necessarily a Neocon. Neocons are largely disaffected Trotskyites who fled the democratic party in the late 60s.

[catdd]

We could get that minor detail straightened out and go forward. We all know their history here I believe.

YouTube - Ron Paul names Neo-Cons on House Floor July 10 2003 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNb_610L0GE)

[BenIsForRon]

And that would start with people on this forum as well who misuse the word "neocon" repeatedly. There is a difference between a full-fledged neocon and conservative republicans who gravitate towards Willsonian foreign policy goals, for whatever reason, whether it be an attractions towards the maintenance of the national security illusion or validating the sacrifice of their loved ones in the military. Not everyone who disagrees with Ron Paul on foreign policy goals is necessarily a Neocon. Neocons are largely disaffected Trotskyites who fled the democratic party in the late 60s.

Yeah, this is why I try not to use the term Neocon too often. I think your net worth needs to be in the 8 digits before you can even be considered a neocon.

[Mini-Me]

Yeah, this is why I try not to use the term Neocon too often. I think your net worth needs to be in the 8 digits before you can even be considered a neocon.

Well, you have the neocon ringleaders who fit that description and AuH2O's description, but I think it's also important to differentiate more traditional conservatives (i.e. actual fiscal conservatives) from the manipulated followers of the "real" neocons. Since we generally talk about the followers more often than the ringleaders, referring to them in some shorthand way really can't be helped.

[catdd]

Yeah, this is why I try not to use the term Neocon too often. I think your net worth needs to be in the 8 digits before you can even be considered a neocon.

Still, aggressive foreign policy, whether Wilsonian or Neocon is the same end result.
Neocons have even been described as "Wilsonians on steroids".
And it's fairly likely that modern Wilsonians have been influenced by Neocons.

[The Patriot]

Good coverage but he could have explained the situation a little better. O well.

I thought he did a good job. I would have liked a little more detail, but he only had so much time and he kind of has to frame his argument in conventional political terms so the average news-watcher can understand.

[idirtify]

I don’t get it. Weigel characterizes the TP as hardcore conservative mainstream Republicans. If that’s true, why rename their group “Tea Party”, and why claim they are “grassroots”? Since when did a major party need another name, completely unrecognizable to the original, in order for its members to become activists?? I’m reminded of the Amway disgrace, when the promoters of the famous MLM scheme became so notorious that the company was soiled to the point that never uttering their own name (“Amway”) for the duration of the sales pitch became official policy. The name “Amway” became so associated with liars and shysters that they had to stop using it in their own advertisements.

[idirtify]

5:30 – Weigel wraps up by characterizing members of the TP:
“There’s a general idea of the constitution and it just so happens to fit in with things the Republican Party right now is very much into.”

And Rachel ends the segment, failing to make the no-brainer comment:
“Except their position on war which you were just explaining.”

[CapitalistRadical]

C4L can't do it anymore, either. At least not with any credibility.

Why not?