Q about gold as legal tender

[born2drv]

Isn't gold legal tender now? ..... 1oz gold coin, face value = $50, sure it would be foolish to give this to someone as worth $50, but whats to stop people from trading gold now as legal tender? If I wanted to pay my employees in gold coins minted by the treasury, would I be allowed to?

If so, could people ask their employers to pay them in gold coins? ie. I'll work for 1oz of gold per week. Then when it comes time to do your income tax returns, just declare that you got $50/week and pay on that? :)

Ron Paul says gold / silver are not legal tender now. Why does he say this? Does he mean the value is not set by the people trading it? Or does he mean not legal unless minted by our treasury?

[SpicyItalian739]

I recall a day or so hearing about a buisiness that was under fire for paying their employees with $1 gold coins lol... maybe it was in Vegas or something? I think the government is mad because they cant reduce the value via the fed

[Allan Bartlett]

You are exactly right. There was a case decided just a few ago in Nevada where the IRS filed charges against an employer because he wasn't paying any employment taxes or he was paying very little because the employer, a contractor, paid his employees with legal tender gold & silver coins. The jury acquited them of 161 charges and hung on a few more. Here's the link from We The People:

http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2007-09-30.htm

[John of Des Moines]

And for people who really want to the campaign how about donating in gold and/or silver coins up to the $2,300 face value of the coins. Now that would be making a contribution!

[lucius]

You are exactly right. There was a case decided just a few ago in Nevada where the IRS filed charges against an employer because he wasn't paying any employment taxes or he was paying very little because the employer, a contractor, paid his employees with legal tender gold & silver coins. The jury acquited them of 161 charges and hung on a few more. Here's the link from We The People:

http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2007-09-30.htm

Thank you! I was looking for that link. :)

[Kregener]

Then when it comes time to do your income tax returns...

You do not really have any faith that Ron Paul can win the presidency, right?

[Allan Bartlett]

I think everyone who hasn't donated the maximum contribution should send the campaign some "legal tender" gold & silver coins and use the face value on the coins for whatever left they are able to give. Imagine this scenario.....you are a huge Ron Paul supporter with the means to give. At today's spot gold price of around $740 ounce and taking into consideration the max FEC donation limit of @2300, you could give 46 $50 legal tender US gold eagles to the campaign. The actual value of the contribution would be around $34k! Let's use the stupid legal tender laws against the system.

http://powderbluereport.blogspot.com

[born2drv]

You do not really have any faith that Ron Paul can win the presidency, right?

I have faith.... but even if he wins, I don't think he will abolish income tax and the IRS the next day. You have to wean the american public off the entitlements, stop the war, etc... it could take a year or 2 or 3, who knows.

[lucius]

I everyone who hasn't donated the maximum contribution should send the campaign some "legal tender" gold & silver coins and use the face value on the coins for whatever left they are able to give. Imagine this scenario.....you are a huge Ron Paul supporter with the means to give. At today's spot gold price of around $740 ounce and taking into consideration the max FEC donation limit of @2300, you could give 46 $50 legal tender US gold eagles to the campaign. The actual value of the contribution would be around $34k! Let's use the stupid legal tender laws against the system.

http://powderbluereport.blogspot.com

GREAT IDEA!

[born2drv]

Ron Paul says gold / silver are not legal tender now. Why does he say this? Does he mean the value is not set by the people trading it? Or does he mean not legal unless minted by our treasury?

Can someone answer this part of my question please???? I'm curious now. Thanks.

[dude58677]

I have faith.... but even if he wins, I don't think he will abolish income tax and the IRS the next day. You have to wean the american public off the entitlements, stop the war, etc... it could take a year or 2 or 3, who knows.

Wrong. He can pardon all tax evaders, veto appropriations bills, lay off IRS employees, erase the code of federal regulations, etc.

Use your imagination.

[Allan Bartlett]

US Gold Eagle coins are $50 legal tender and silver eagles are $1 legal tender. I think these would be the coins to use.

http://powderbluereport.blogspot.com

[Bradley in DC]

FYI

http://ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=103669#poststop

[born2drv]

FYI

http://ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=103669#poststop

Just read this thread, pretty interesting.... I hope I never accidentally rent an apartment from you during a period of rapid inflation ;)



I'm still curious though, when Ron Paul says Gold and Silver should be legal tender again, what is he saying exactly? Does anyone have the answer????

[pdavis]

Just read this thread, pretty interesting.... I hope I never accidentally rent an apartment from you during a period of rapid inflation ;)



I'm still curious though, when Ron Paul says Gold and Silver should be legal tender again, what is he saying exactly? Does anyone have the answer????

He is saying that only Federal Reserve Notes are legal tender for public and private debts by statute when the Constitution states that "no state shall make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts." Also gold and silver bullion coins such as the American Eagle, are subject to sales taxes and capital gains taxes. Why pay taxes on gold and silver when the Constitution states that it's money not an investment.

[Rich333]

Can someone answer this part of my question please???? I'm curious now. Thanks.
Legal tender means that businesses are required by law to accept it as payment for goods and services, and that it can be used to pay taxes. Right now only Federal Reserve Notes are legal tender. If you're using gold or silver coins you have to be careful with the language you use to refer to the coins, because the government is just looking for an opportunity to throw you in prison. People who use Liberty Dollars are routinely harassed and intimidated and the feds have been looking for any excuse to arrest them.

[zebov]

Wrong. He can pardon all tax evaders, veto appropriations bills, lay off IRS employees, erase the code of federal regulations, etc.

Use your imagination.

Yes, he COULD do this, but this would be absurd. Paul is not an idiot. If we aren't going to decrease spending, getting rid of the income tax would be the end of the U.S. economy. Getting rid of excess spending has to come first.

[foofighter20x]

Legal tender means that businesses are required by law to accept it as payment for goods and services, and that it can be used to pay taxes. Right now only Federal Reserve Notes are legal tender. If you're using gold or silver coins you have to be careful with the language you use to refer to the coins, because the government is just looking for an opportunity to throw you in prison. People who use Liberty Dollars are routinely harassed and intimidated and the feds have been looking for any excuse to arrest them.

Incorrect.

Legal tender laws only apply to creditors. Vendors can take whatever they want in payment, but they don't have to accept the money unless they sent you a bill (in which case they've credited you for the service). Exchange transactions don't incur a debt on the part of either party, so the legal tender law doesn't apply.

More here. (http://www.treas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.shtml)

Also, any coins produced by the U.S. Mint, in any denomination of dollars, are legal tender as well.

[Swmorgan77]

Isn't gold legal tender now? ..... 1oz gold coin, face value = $50, sure it would be foolish to give this to someone as worth $50, but whats to stop people from trading gold now as legal tender? If I wanted to pay my employees in gold coins minted by the treasury, would I be allowed to?

If so, could people ask their employers to pay them in gold coins? ie. I'll work for 1oz of gold per week. Then when it comes time to do your income tax returns, just declare that you got $50/week and pay on that? :)

Ron Paul says gold / silver are not legal tender now. Why does he say this? Does he mean the value is not set by the people trading it? Or does he mean not legal unless minted by our treasury?

It can be used privately in exchanges, sure.. but it is not recognized in payment of debt for taxes to government. The only "legal tender", meaning recognized currency that people MUST accept in the USA for payment of debts is the FRN.

That does not mean you can't use it, only that the law does not compel another private party or gov. agency to accept it as it does with the FRN. That is the meaning of "legal tender". A currency backed by government compulsion. "legal" tender does not mean only that it is "permitted".

[OptionsTrader]

Isn't gold legal tender now?

No.

You pay capital gains on the appreciation of gold when you sell gold for a profit.

That is not be the case when you settle a cash (legal tender) transaction.

[OptionsTrader]

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr090503.htm

[foofighter20x]

No.

You pay capital gains on the appreciation of gold when you sell gold for a profit.

That is not be the case when you settle a cash (legal tender) transaction.

We should clarify this.

Gold bullion is not legal tender. Gold coins produced bt the U.S. Mint (e.g. American Gold Eagle) are, but only at the face value of the coin ($50). All other gold coins are not.

[billv]

I think everyone who hasn't donated the maximum contribution should send the campaign some "legal tender" gold & silver coins and use the face value on the coins for whatever left they are able to give. Imagine this scenario.....you are a huge Ron Paul supporter with the means to give. At today's spot gold price of around $740 ounce and taking into consideration the max FEC donation limit of @2300, you could give 46 $50 legal tender US gold eagles to the campaign. The actual value of the contribution would be around $34k! Let's use the stupid legal tender laws against the system.

http://powderbluereport.blogspot.com

Just give cash. Gold coins are rather illiquid and there would be greater transaction costs to converting them to cash in order to use them.