View Full Version : CIA Shoots Down Plane With Mother and Infant Aboard, Then covered It up
..PAUL4PRES..
02-05-2010, 04:09 PM
YouTube - CIA Shoots Down Plane With Mother and Infant Aboard, Then covered It up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n93NNfhOgW8&feature=sub)
JVParkour
02-05-2010, 04:28 PM
Screw them. Freaking ridiculous.
squarepusher
02-05-2010, 04:54 PM
so wrong
KCIndy
02-05-2010, 05:21 PM
More on this travesty from Reason magazine:
http://reason.com/blog/2010/02/05/if-we-make-sure-were-not-killi
If We Make Sure We're Not Killing Innocent People, We Might Not Get to Kill Anyone at All
Jacob Sullum | February 5, 2010
In April 2001, the Peruvian Air Force, working with the CIA, shot down a plane carrying two American missionaries and their children after mistaking them for cocaine traffickers. Veronica Bowers and her 7-month-old daughter, Charity, were killed by machine gun rounds, while her husband, Jim; their 6-year-old son, Cory; and the pilot, Kevin Donaldson, survived both the crash and the additional rounds that rained down on them as they struggled to stay afloat in the Amazon River amid flaming wreckage. On Wednesday, nearly nine years after Veronica and Charity Bowers were murdered with U.S. assistance, the CIA announced that it had concluded its internal investigation of the incident and planned to discipline 16 employees, many of whom are no longer with the agency. ABC News reports that "one of those involved said his discipline was no more than a letter of reprimand placed in his file, which he was told would be removed in one year." Despite the culpability implied by the decision to discipline those employees, the CIA issued a statement that put all the blame on the Peruvian Air Force:
The program to deny drug traffickers an "air bridge" ended in 2001 and was run by a foreign government. CIA personnel had no authority either to direct or prohibit actions by that government. CIA officers did not shoot down any airplane. In the case of the tragic downing of April 21st [actually, it was April 20], 2001, CIA personnel protested the identification of the missionary plane as a suspect drug trafficker.
The 109-minute videotape of the incident, as summarized by ABC News, tells a different story (emphasis added):
A CIA spotter plane saw the Cessna in which the Bowers family was flying and alerted the Peruvian Air Force....
The CIA spotter plane, with two operatives aboard, sneaked up behind the Cessna as it flew over the Amazon.
"We are trying to remain covert at this point," one of the CIA pilots on the plane can be heard to say on the tape.
The CIA pilot describes the aircraft as a high-wing, single engine float plane, which is accurate, that it has picked up on the border between Peru and Brazil.
But the CIA personnel misidentified the craft as a drug plane. The CIA alerted the Peruvian Air Force, which scrambled an interceptor. Over the next two hours, the CIA personnel would express doubts, but would not correct their error, and would repeatedly violate what the White House believed to be strict rules of engagement.
Said former counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke, who served in the White House at the time on the National Security Council, which created the anti-drug program, "Either the CIA spotter aircraft or the interceptor is supposed to get up close, identify the plane from the tail number, try to indicate to the plane that it should follow them to the ground."
That did not happen. Instead, the decision was made not to try to identify the tail number, because it might allow the plane to escape.
"You know, we can go up attempt the tail number," says a CIA operative on the tape. "The problem with that is that if he is dirty and he detect us, he makes a right turn immediately and we can't chase him."
When the Peruvian Air Force jet arrived it issued a warning to the target plane, saying, "We will shoot you down." The warning was in Spanish, which the Bowers and their pilot could understand, but it was on the wrong frequency.
The CIA pilots begin to have doubts. "This guy doesn't, doesn't fit the profile," says one. But nothing was done to pull the plane back.
The CIA then asks a Peruvian Air Force liaison, "Are you sure is bandito? Are you sure?"
"Yes, okay," says the Peruvian.
"If you're sure," responds the CIA operative. Then more serious doubts were quietly whispered.
"That is bullshit," says one CIA operative. "I think we're making a mistake."
"I agree with you," says the other operative.
A minute and a half later the gunships opened fire and the Bowers' pilot, Donaldson, screamed in Spanish for the jet to stop.
"They're killing me. They're killing us," yells Donaldson on the tape.
"Tell him to terminate," says one of the CIA operative to the Peruvian liaison. "No. Don't Shoot. No more, no mas."
The Peruvian liaison starts yelling at the pilot, "Stop! No mas, no mas, Tucan no more."
"God," says one of the CIA pilots.
By then the damage was done. Trailing black smoke, it headed for a river to land, with Veronica Bowers and her daughter Charity already dead from bullet wounds and the pilot wounded in both legs.
Jim Bowers, his son Cory and Kevin Donaldson survived. But for almost nine years, the CIA misled Congress, the White House and the dead woman's parents about how and why the agency defied the rules established to make sure innocent people were not killed.
The CIA blames the Peruvians, even though the attack was instigated by the agency's spotters as part of a program endorsed, facilitated, and in a sense demanded by the U.S. government, which enlists nations throughout the world in its fight to prevent Americans from consuming politically incorrect intoxicants. In a column right after the incident, I argued that "accidents" like this were inevitable once Congress authorized drug warriors to shoot down civilian planes and that the use of deadly force was in any case unjustified in this context, where the "crime" the government is trying to prevent is nothing more than the delivery of a product by willing sellers to eager buyers.
[via the Drug War Chronicle]
LibForestPaul
02-05-2010, 06:04 PM
The only good Red is a dead Red. Probably communists. Sure it was a mistake.
nateerb
02-05-2010, 06:18 PM
...
Lovecraftian4Paul
02-05-2010, 06:33 PM
Ron Paul is right again. The CIA is a mad dog that needs to be taken out. I don't care what the neo-con apologists will say. There's no reason to have this organization around. Disband it and let the army handle strict intelligence gathering duties.
dannno
02-05-2010, 07:26 PM
I knew about this 9 years ago.
Catatonic
02-05-2010, 07:28 PM
This story is BS. I can source about a million 9/11 threads to prove to you that there's no such thing as a cover up, this is just cooky delusion. If the CIA shot this plane down as described the first thing they would all do is admit to their actions.
Nemesis
02-05-2010, 07:29 PM
Ron Paul is right again. The CIA is a mad dog that needs to be taken out. I don't care what the neo-con apologists will say. There's no reason to have this organization around. Disband it and let the army handle strict intelligence gathering duties.
WRONG. The CIA has been a stalwart in the war against communism and terrorism.
Mistakes happen in war, we all know that.
Your proposal is what we call one-step thinking. You don't understand the need for having the inetelligence branch separate from the military.
Goldhunter27
02-05-2010, 07:33 PM
This story is BS. I can source about a million 9/11 threads to prove to you that there's no such thing as a cover up, this is just cooky delusion. If the CIA shot this plane down as described the first thing they would all do is admit to their actions.
:confused::confused::confused::confused:
Goldhunter27
02-05-2010, 07:36 PM
WRONG. The CIA has been a stalwart in the war against communism and terrorism.
Mistakes happen in war, we all know that.
Your proposal is what we call one-step thinking. You don't understand the need for having the inetelligence branch separate from the military.
inetelligence branch:p
The whole war is a friggan' mistake. And who is "we"?
Catatonic
02-05-2010, 07:37 PM
:confused::confused::confused::confused:
I'm being sarcastic.
And who is "we"?
I was wondering the same thing.
WRONG. The CIA has been a stalwart in the war against communism and terrorism.
Mistakes happen in war, we all know that.
Your proposal is what we call one-step thinking. You don't understand the need for having the inetelligence branch separate from the military.
Yes, where would the world be without the CIA. No shah, no al qaeda, no renditions, no Iran Contra, no missionaries murdered.
How depressing :(
JK/SEA
02-05-2010, 07:39 PM
I'm being sarcastic.
I was wondering the same thing.
I'm thinkin' hw bush, or his water carrier.
Goldhunter27
02-05-2010, 07:43 PM
I'm being sarcastic.
I was wondering the same thing.
Yes, where would the world be without the CIA. No shah, no al qaeda, no renditions, no Iran Contra, no missionaries murdered.
How depressing :(
My bad. My sarcasm detector is broken today.
Liberty Star
02-05-2010, 07:43 PM
This leak and reporting shows that there are some people with honor left in media still.
Obama should ban these agencies from assassinating Americans abroad or anywhere till there is thorough investigation of this killing of Christian missionaries and results are made public.
squarepusher
02-05-2010, 08:05 PM
Its pretty simple. there were survivors from the crash that weren't killed. That's why we are hearing about this story at all. If there were no survivors in the plane crash, likely nothing would have been spoken of it.
puppetmaster
02-05-2010, 08:23 PM
Its pretty simple. there were survivors from the crash that weren't killed. That's why we are hearing about this story at all. If there were no survivors in the plane crash, likely nothing would have been spoken of it.
yep
Chester Copperpot
02-05-2010, 08:42 PM
3 Cheers for the
Cocaine
Import
Agency
Yay!!!!
Gotta shoot down drug dealers because they hurt the CIA's profits... YIPPEE!!
dannno
02-05-2010, 08:45 PM
3 Cheers for the
Cocaine
Import
Agency
Yay!!!!
Gotta shoot down drug dealers because they hurt the CIA's profits... YIPPEE!!
Win.
Uriel999
02-05-2010, 09:31 PM
WRONG. The CIA has been a stalwart in the war against communism and terrorism.
Mistakes happen in war, we all know that.
Your proposal is what we call one-step thinking. You don't understand the need for having the inetelligence branch separate from the military.
Sure we should collect intelligence, however, the CIA is a state sponsored terrorist organization. Blowback is a bitch and the reason terrorists have attacked us in the first place is because the CIA have committed acts of terrorism worldwide for decades.
Reason
02-05-2010, 10:36 PM
the war on drugs strikes again
Imperial
02-05-2010, 11:29 PM
WRONG. The CIA has been a stalwart in the war against communism and terrorism.
Mistakes happen in war, we all know that.
Your proposal is what we call one-step thinking. You don't understand the need for having the inetelligence branch separate from the military.
THe CIA though should only be limited to foreign intelligence and counter foreign intelligence agencies. But definitely the military should not take control of intelligence. This was something Rumsfeld dangerously tried to do.
Freedom 4 all
02-05-2010, 11:59 PM
WRONG. The CIA has been a stalwart in the war against communism and terrorism.
Mistakes happen in war, we all know that.
Your proposal is what we call one-step thinking. You don't understand the need for having the inetelligence branch separate from the military.
A wild NEOCON appeared. NEOCON uses FEARMONGERING. It's not very effective...
devil21
02-06-2010, 12:06 AM
WRONG. The CIA has been a stalwart in the war against communism and terrorism.
Mistakes happen in war, we all know that.
Your proposal is what we call one-step thinking. You don't understand the need for having the inetelligence branch separate from the military.
Praytell which "war" was the US involved in that required shooting down civilian planes over Peru?
DapperDan
02-06-2010, 12:22 AM
A wild NEOCON appeared. NEOCON uses FEARMONGERING. It's not very effective...
http://scratch.mit.edu/static/projects/pinhead/411427_sm.png
Thanks for the laugh, I'm glad I caught that.
CIA is a beast of its own.
The Patriot
02-06-2010, 01:43 PM
WRONG. The CIA has been a stalwart in the war against communism and terrorism.
Mistakes happen in war, we all know that.
Your proposal is what we call one-step thinking. You don't understand the need for having the inetelligence branch separate from the military.
We had spies before the CIA. The CIA has been a net negative. They have been involved in shady drug deals, shady murders, and regime change in places like Iran and Iraq which have incited hatred across the Muslim world. They also have a secret budget, how much are these guy putting us in the Red Ink?
pcosmar
02-06-2010, 03:48 PM
WRONG. The CIA has been ,,,,,
<snip>
inetelligence,,,,,
New poster is funny.
I wonder who he works for. :confused:
Nemesis
02-06-2010, 09:10 PM
Sure we should collect intelligence, however, the CIA is a state sponsored terrorist organization. Blowback is a bitch and the reason terrorists have attacked us in the first place is because the CIA have committed acts of terrorism worldwide for decades.
Oh, I see, 9/11 is our fault.
I think you want the Democratic Underground forum.
Nemesis
02-06-2010, 09:13 PM
We had spies before the CIA. The CIA has been a net negative. They have been involved in shady drug deals, shady murders, and regime change in places like Iran and Iraq which have incited hatred across the Muslim world. They also have a secret budget, how much are these guy putting us in the Red Ink?
Dude, lay off the Salvia. Accidents happen, "rouge" agents occur.
Using the logic of this board, or should I say "illogic" we need to disband EVERY police agency in the major cities as they all have some black-mark or invariably the bad apple makes it through their screening process.
Look, the CIA, FBI, LAPD, NYPD, etc. are necessary evils.
If you people insist on staking out such outrageous positions such as I've seen done in this thread alone get ready for always being considered the "fringe" of the Republican/Libertarian party.
I hope you enjoy sitting in the tall grass watching everyone at the party because that is about as good as it will ever get for you.
devil21
02-06-2010, 09:14 PM
Oh, I see, 9/11 is our fault.
I think you want the Democratic Underground forum.
Somebody got lost on their way to the Hannity forums and it's not Uriel :D
Or better yet, why not answer the questions posed to you in this thread, instead of being a small-minded drive-by forum sniper? We can make this informative for you, I guarantee. eta: hmm, looks like you're actually doing it. Nice. This should be entertaining.
Nemesis
02-06-2010, 09:15 PM
New poster is funny.
I wonder who he works for. :confused:
Oh grow up. Just because I don't goose-step to everything you guys say doesn't make me some CIA/DEA/FBI plant.
We need a dramatically smaller government, that is why I'm here.
I realize that it isn't "conspiratorial" in the least, but that is why I'm here.
devil21
02-06-2010, 09:22 PM
Oh grow up. Just because I don't goose-step to everything you guys say doesn't make me some CIA/DEA/FBI plant.
We need a dramatically smaller government, that is why I'm here.
I realize that it isn't "conspiratorial" in the least, but that is why I'm here.
Unless it's the FBI, CIA, DHS, Military, etc, right? How can you argue for "dramatically smaller government" yet support the GIANT blackholes of money these agencies represent? Billions upon billions of our dollars are spent and for what? The CIA breeds resentment toward Americans through their intervention policies of regime change, assassination, and torture. The FBI can't even stop a Nigerian teenager from setting his underwear on fire AFTER they were told repeatedly about the boy. Should I go on? Please explain to me how you can justify the absurd amounts of money being spent on these agencies, while nothing actually gets better, then turn around and say you want smaller government?
Here's the difference between me and you, Nemesis. I don't have any "Sacred Cows" in the US government. Your idea of shrinking government is shrinking what you don't like and growing larger what you do like. I don't like any of it because it's a waste of money, nevermind the Constitutional issues with the federal government creating whatever-the-hell-they-feel-like in violation of the 10th Amendment.
Anti Federalist
02-06-2010, 09:26 PM
New poster is funny.
I wonder who he works for. :confused:
New poster is new.
Either that or he got lost on his way to RedState.:rolleyes:
Anti Federalist
02-06-2010, 09:28 PM
Dude, lay off the Salvia. Accidents happen, "rouge" agents occur.
Using the logic of this board, or should I say "illogic" we need to disband EVERY police agency in the major cities as they all have some black-mark or invariably the bad apple makes it through their screening process.
Yeah "red" agents is right, comrade.
Also, not a bad idea.
Anti Federalist
02-06-2010, 09:32 PM
Oh, I see, 9/11 is our fault.
I think you want the Democratic Underground forum.
Google "Operation Ajax"
Understand how our state sponsored terrorism led to Islamic revolution and jihad.
Then you'll see why "they hate us".
Then we'll talk.
coyote_sprit
02-06-2010, 09:46 PM
Nemesis works for Umbrella corporation.
The Patriot
02-06-2010, 10:20 PM
Dude, lay off the Salvia. Accidents happen, "rouge" agents occur.
Using the logic of this board, or should I say "illogic" we need to disband EVERY police agency in the major cities as they all have some black-mark or invariably the bad apple makes it through their screening process.
Look, the CIA, FBI, LAPD, NYPD, etc. are necessary evils.
If you people insist on staking out such outrageous positions such as I've seen done in this thread alone get ready for always being considered the "fringe" of the Republican/Libertarian party.
I hope you enjoy sitting in the tall grass watching everyone at the party because that is about as good as it will ever get for you.
Rogue incidents seem to occur all to often in the CIA.
Sorry, but police departments don't have classified budgets, engage in regime change and false flag pys-ops, or engage in huge drug deals(for the most part). Quite frankly, you are slandering any every day cop by saying what he does is similar to what this rogue organization does.
The fact is, almost 50% of Americans support a non interventionist position and think we should mind our own business, even more oppose Iraq, and about 50% oppose the surge in Afghanistan. That means the majority of Americans think the CIA should mind it's own business as well in regards to interfering around the world.
freedoms-light
02-06-2010, 10:29 PM
Nemesis, doesn't -
Look, the CIA, FBI, LAPD, NYPD, etc. are necessary evils.
and
We need a dramatically smaller government, that is why I'm here.
give you
Cognitive dissonance??
Reason
02-16-2010, 02:26 PM
YouTube - ABC Nightline Story on Michigan Missionary Family's Plane Shootdown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJVHfSip5d4)
Keller1967
02-16-2010, 02:29 PM
The government that did this would have never been willing to kill it's own people on 9/11! They would have been completely against that for moral reasons!
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