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rancher89
02-03-2010, 12:38 PM
I have been a C4L State Coordinator and feel that the C4L is a valuable tool for the grassroots Liberty effort. The recent Buck ad in CO has raised a flurry of questions from several different forums on the interwebs. Some of these questions have been around for a while, others deal specifically with the Buck ad. This is a compilation of questions from various sources, some questions have been reworded or combined for clarity.

If you have not seen the ad, here's the link:
YouTube - CO pro buck ad.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R87D8DCgJcA)

Article from local CO writer, dated 1-26-2010 @ 2:34 am
http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2010/01/26/big-bucks-for-ken-bucks/

Article is posted to rpf's on 1-27-2010 @ 3:30 PM.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=228504

Mr. Tate's response, dated 1-29-2010 @ 2:03 PM and updated on 1-29-2010 @ 2:22 PM
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=31963&cpg=2

Statement from Ronnie Paul, Ron's brother, dated 2-1-2010 @ 4:18 PM:
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=32090

Jesse Benton's interview 2-2-2010:
http://libertypulse.com/article/4009

Michael Nystrom's comments about his conversation with Ron Paul posted 2/02/2010 @ 21:06:
http://dailypaul.com/node/123735

C4L page where you can find information on the survey:
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/candidatesurvey.php?state=CO


Some feel that all of the questions have been answered to their satisfaction. If you feel that all of your questions have been answered, that's great, but please respect my (and others who feel the same way) right to ask questions and expect answers.

Others, myself included, feel that the questions we have asked have not only not been answered, but have been replied to with deflection and in some cases outright lies, intended or not.

It has been stated, several times, by several people, that if the C4L had issued a statement early in this dustup, stating that they were looking into the situation and would be issuing a formal statement soon, many people would have been more patient.

Please do not feel that I am attacking the C4L as an organization or any particular member of the board of the C4L, or for that matter any member who feels that all their questions have been asked and answered. I'm not. I just want a few answers from the organization I joined and worked so hard to help it grow.

I will post answers to these questions, if they come from other forums /sites /private emails /pms when they come in.

1) I sat in on Mike Rothfeld's seminars in MN and in Atlanta, the seminars in Atlanta were much more confrontational than the ones in MN. Please tell me why someone who is so obviously anti-third party and is openly pro war is the best the C4L can find to teach us about how to target voters for money and support? Who brought him in to teach us? (**Note Deb H. has begun to answer this question. **)


2) There are some that do not feel that John Tate fully subscribes to Ron's message, does he?

---A) Why do the mailings (signed by John Tate,) asking for donations, citing that one or more inititive may need to be dropped from the list of important C4L missions, not include "non-interventionalist wars" anymore?

---B) Why did it take so long for any word from Mr. Tate on the ad/survey and why was his response so off-target?

---C) Why were we made to feel disloyal if we questioned the actions of the C4L or Mr. Tate?


3) Will you please explain how the C4L board got involved with the ad/survey situation in CO?

---A) Who watched the ad before it was aired? Which lawyers reviewed the ad?

---B) Can we please see the FULL survey as a scanned copy with the answers by Ken Buck, including the written portion?

---C) In what manner, and employing what behaviors, will the C4L hold candidates who answer the survey accountable?

---D) How/why did the board think that the ad was a good idea and not expect to receive criticism?

---E) Did anyone dissent, and if so, who?

---F) If the Buck ad was tactical (in regard to C4L being a POLITICAL organization), then it was NOT misworded or mismade. IOW, we seem to have two conflicting excuses here. One excuse says that the ad was made wrong and did not actually intend to come off like that – and actually intended to mean something else. The other one says that the ad was a tactical maneuver. The two excuses are mutually exclusive - by nature. IOW it can’t be both. If it was a tactical maneuver, its surface appearance was intentional. So which explanation is the right one?

---G) How did a group of unknown people (to the state and national C4L organizations) manage to organize and quietly raise more than a quarter of a million dollars to buy and make a TV ad in support of a survey (more specifically a specific candidate's response to the survey) that none of the older members or CO state leadership had even heard about?

------a) What is the connection between these donors and the National C4L?

------b) Why did they choose to funnel the money through an organization that they have practically no relationship with?

------c) Why wasn't the CO state leadership included?


4) What is the National C4L's EIN? Where are the 990's?


5) Can we please have a list of all of the corporations across the country which are affiliated with the C4L and have permission to use the C4L logo including those corps EIN's, the board of directors, and the city and state in which their HQ is located?


6) Will C4L please consider appointing a grassroots liaison on the board of directors that is selected by the grassroots? We understand that Debra Medina was our grassroots representative until she resigned to run for Govenor of Texas. (go Medina!) We would like to choose the next grassroots representative.


7) Re: Jesse Benton's statement--what exactly are the specific details of the customs, usages, practices, policies, procedures, and people involved with this checks & balances system he mentions? In what manner will the existence of this particular checks & balances system prevent these mistakes from ever happening again?


8) Why should people support the C4L and give it money?

---A) Of what specific benefit to my local community and state effort is sending money to CFL national?

---B) If the C4L is now supporting candidates, and I have limited resources to use for candidate support, how can I be sure that money sent to CFL will be used to support the candidates *I* want to support?


I thank everyone who contributed to this list of questions and I look forward to a civil and rational discussion of the answers we receive. Again, if you feel that all of your questions have been answered, that's great, but respect my (and others who feel the same way) right to ask questions and expect answers.

newbitech
02-03-2010, 12:50 PM
5.) Can we please see the FULL survey as in a scanned copy of the response of Ken Buck including the written portion?

6.) What is national C4L's EIN?

7.) Can we please have a list of all of the corporations across the country which are affiliated with the C4L and have permission to use the C4L logo including those corps EIN's, the board of directors, and the city and state in which their HQ is located?

newbitech
02-03-2010, 01:09 PM
8.) Will C4L consider appointing a grassroots liaison on the board of directors that is selected by the grassroots?

LittleLightShining
02-03-2010, 01:21 PM
8.) Will C4L consider appointing a grassroots liaison on the board of directors that is selected by the grassroots?
Didn't you listen to the Benton interview? It wasn't a maybe or even a simple no. The answer, "no", was preceded by a derisive snicker.

Who produced the ad?

newbitech
02-03-2010, 01:25 PM
Didn't you listen to the Benton interview? It wasn't a maybe or even a simple no. The answer, "no", was preceded by a derisive snicker.

Who produced the ad?


yeah, but we could at least be given SOME representation, rather than an outright controlling vote, why not start with at least appointing someone whose responsibility it would be to answer questions and be the go to person when fires like the Buck ad come up? Seems prudent, dontcha think? If the answer to that question is no, that they wouldn't even consider it, then I will just go ahead and crawl back into the hole that I came out of.

and yeah, let me go back and listen to that interview while I have some un-distracted time.

angelatc
02-03-2010, 02:03 PM
How did the new CFL members manage to all banded together so quickly?

How did they quietly raise more than a quarter of a million dollars to make a TV ad and buy ad time in support of a survey (more specifically a specific candidate's response to the survey) that none of the older members or state leadership had even heard about?

How were they tied into, or introduced, to National if not through state level leadership?

Why did they choose to funnel the money through an organization that they have practically no relationship with?

Why wasn't state leadership included?

angelatc
02-03-2010, 02:05 PM
Another question: since we're deemed not worthy to sit at the adult table, a scenario that Benton apparently finds amusing, are we ever going to be allowed to even elect our own state coordinators?

Our state now has 4 interim coordinators. That's simply ridiculous.

rancher89
02-03-2010, 02:26 PM
8.) Will C4L consider appointing a grassroots liaison on the board of directors that is selected by the grassroots?

I added your question, even though we know we won't be electing the board, it is fair to ask if we can have grassroots representation on the board.

rancher89
02-03-2010, 02:31 PM
Angelatc---Help me put these into concise question form and I'll add them to the list

newbitech
02-03-2010, 02:36 PM
I added your question, even though we know we won't be electing the board, it is fair to ask if we can have grassroots representation on the board.


yeah, I mean a communication director that is raised up from the grassroots would have done wonders here.

Instead of having to go through the forums to get the point across, we could have just gone to the communications director.

This would have also helped to make sure decisions made at the top are disseminated back down to the grassroots by someone who speaks our language.

It is my understanding that state chapters are being modeled on the national model.

I would absolutely want a grassroots liaison at the state level that was raised up by the grassroots. And that position doesn't require any kind of political expertise at all. Just someone who knows how to communicate effectively and who has the full faith and support of the people who put them their through elections.

It is certainly not a controlling vote, just one of common sense and practicality IMVHO. The boots on the ground need someone we can recognize and communicate with at the higher organizational levels.

Clearly as it stands, this is not the case, and I hope that C4L leadership including Ron Paul himself recognize this deficiency. The recent uproar over an ill-advised and ill-communicated special interest endorsement are evidence of this.

pacelli
02-03-2010, 02:54 PM
In his recent interview where he said that the CFL made mistakes, CFL media guy Jesse Benton alluded to a checks & balances system to ensure that the CFL never makes these mistakes again.

What exactly are the SPECIFIC DETAILS of the customs, usages, practices, policies, procedures, and people involved with this checks & balances system? In what manner will the existence of this particular checks & balances system prevent these mistakes from ever happening again?

LibertyEagle
02-03-2010, 03:10 PM
yeah, but we could at least be given SOME representation, rather than an outright controlling vote, why not start with at least appointing someone whose responsibility it would be to answer questions and be the go to person when fires like the Buck ad come up? Seems prudent, dontcha think? If the answer to that question is no, that they wouldn't even consider it, then I will just go ahead and crawl back into the hole that I came out of.

and yeah, let me go back and listen to that interview while I have some un-distracted time.

Just FYI. Debra Medina, who is now in the process of running for Governor of Texas, was on the board before she started her campaign.

pacelli
02-03-2010, 03:11 PM
In what manner, and employing what behaviors, will the C4L "hold them accountable" if a candidate is observed as providing a promise on the survey but then violating that promise?

Once answered, how will those specific manners and behaviors of "holding them accountable" for breaking their promise comply with the rule that the C4L cannot detract from a candidate?

rancher89
02-03-2010, 04:20 PM
Another question: <snip> are we ever going to be allowed to even elect our own state coordinators?

Our state now has 4 interim coordinators. That's simply ridiculous.


I need to look into this, I know there were guidelines for chartering your state.

When you were chartered, you got to vote for state coordinators, if not district and county.

If I remember correctly. I'll poke around.

dr. hfn
02-03-2010, 05:36 PM
new CFL website....detailed pie chart of their spending...more communication with the grassroots

rancher89
02-03-2010, 05:42 PM
new CFL website....detailed pie chart of their spending...more communication with the grassroots

not gonna happen, not gonna happen, and we'll see are my off the cuff answers to the above.

The first won't happen, they've spent too much money and time to start over now.

A pie chart isn't what we really want, a simple explaination on where the money goes is sufficient. I'll frame a question to this point.

We might get that if we get a grassroots member on the board. (Again--thanks to LE for reminding me that Deb Medina used to be on the board.)

pacelli
02-03-2010, 07:29 PM
Lets stay focused on the topic at hand-- Specific questions we want the C4L to answer.

LittleLightShining
02-04-2010, 07:39 AM
Where are the 990's?

angelatc
02-04-2010, 04:20 PM
I need to look into this, I know there were guidelines for chartering your state.

When you were chartered, you got to vote for state coordinators, if not district and county.

If I remember correctly. I'll poke around.

That might have saved Florida.

InterestedParticipant
02-05-2010, 08:16 PM
9. Why should people support the C4L and give it money?

MsDoodahs
02-05-2010, 09:52 PM
9. Why should people support the C4L and give it money?

9a?

Of what specific benefit to my local community and state effort is sending money to CFL national?

9b?

If I have limited resources to use for candidate support, how can I be sure that money sent to CFL will be used to support the candidates *I* want to support?

rancher89
02-08-2010, 06:39 PM
I've posted my questions on the National C4L Forum, on my C4L Weblog and on the NC C4L Forum.

If you want to copy and paste to your C4L State Forum, go for it.

idirtify
02-10-2010, 11:15 AM
Has anyone gotten any answers yet? If so, please post here. Until then, I will assume C4L has yet to reply to a single question in this thread. :mad:

Jeff.OToole
04-15-2010, 11:54 AM
I have now been given a completed 990 from the CFL staff. I identified a major error in the reporting and their accounting department is going to fix and resubmit. Once I have a good accurate copy I will be posting a thread where I will break down in detail exactly where donations are being spent.

Please stay tuned.

dr. hfn
04-15-2010, 11:56 AM
I have now been given a completed 990 from the CFL staff. I identified a major error in the reporting and their accounting department is going to fix and resubmit. Once I have a good accurate copy I will be posting a thread where I will break down in detail exactly where donations are being spent.

Please stay tuned.

Thank You!