No Ownership = No Support

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

My first post on the recent CFL debacle:


Standing by for all of the facts.

http://goodguy.sfblogs.net/files/2008/02/010-told-you-so.png

The reasonable plan of action moving forward is the same now as it was after the campaign and it does not require a top down organization. I don't expect anything to change. I do not expect history not to repeat itself. Despite objections raised about the CFL people we're sold then and they will be resold. Just a temporary hiccup, if you have CFL undies on I wouldn't get them all bunched up over this.

Nothing is going to change. For all of the bitching and moaning about the CFL I do not see people talking about taking ownership of the liberty pursuit to create the bottom up organization people said they wanted.

If you want transparency... own it.
If you want bottom up.... own it.
If you want grass roots control... own it.

A lot is debated around here. There are constant pissing contests on philosophy but regardless of all that bullshit I view many of my fellow Ron Paul supporters as thinking people. As thinking people if we are unable to articulate a contract that outlines the benefit of association while recognizing our differences we will never come together. We will continue to bitch about what the ruling class is doing to us and how mini-archy is better than anarchy or vice versa.

I thought with regards to political activism the talk and focus was picking battles with candidates we support. We know we do not have Ron Paul candidates for every race in the U.S. but I thought that didn't matter because there are already more candidates than what we can financially support. I thought people talked about changing things from the ground up not bragging about who has the most political capital in DC.

And when it comes to the merits of a liberty coop enterprise what do you think people will more receptive to when trying to grow it? Hey support XYZ with me or come be a co-owner and partner in the liberty pursuit?

[silverhandorder]

I have been swaying between CFL being the devil and CFL being right. I came to a conclusion that OP type of attacks on CFL is a huge drama. No one is asking you to support central CFL. There are chapters all over the country that are local. So in essence CFL as an organization is both and if you are not happy with one part then don't support it. However most people who are not involved on a local level have two choices either get involved or support some central organization. You can't expect them to not support the central organization when the alternative is for them to simply not to contribute to liberty at all.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

I have been swaying between CFL being the devil and CFL being right. I came to a conclusion that OP type of attacks on CFL is a huge drama. No one is asking you to support central CFL. There are chapters all over the country that are local. So in essence CFL as an organization is both and if you are not happy with one part then don't support it. However most people who are not involved on a local level have two choices either get involved or support some central organization. You can't expect them to not support the central organization when the alternative is for them to simply not to contribute to liberty at all.

It is ok for the CFL to sell their organization to Ron Paul supporters and kick people out who are not in line with their way of thinking but selling a concept of ownership in liberty is drama? Noted.

I am not telling you whether or not to support CFL. I don't care whether people support CFL or not. It is individual choice. I am stating what I am interested in supporting. Obviously if I am the only person who values ownership in an organization I want to support I am socializing in the wrong forum.

[silverhandorder]

It is ok for the CFL to sell their organization to Ron Paul supporters and kick people out who are not in line with their way of thinking but selling a concept of ownership in liberty is drama? Noted.

I am not telling you whether or not to support CFL. I don't care whether people support CFL or not. It is individual choice. I am stating what I am interested in supporting. Obviously if I am the only person who values ownership in an organization I want to support I am socializing in the wrong forum.

So start an competing organization. You are not really giving an attractive replacement. You can't say that all that CFL has done was bad. If you think you can make a product your are welcome to.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

So start an competing organization. You are not really giving an attractive replacement. You can't say that all that CFL has done was bad. If you think you can make a product your are welcome to.

I don't want to go start a competing organization and sell the merits of my organization. I am interested in participating in a discussion about what the bylaws of an organization should be to have wide appeal and support across the Ron Paul supporter spectrum. I am interested in participating in a discussion about the political and educational goals of such an organization. I am interested in participating in a discussion on the ownership/member dynamic. I am interested in participating in a discussion about how such an organization should be legally organized. I am very interested in the discussion and ownership I have zero interest running around saying "follow me".

[YumYum]

I have a serious question: Do you think that Ron Paul wants to continue to have his good name associated with nutjobs?

[silverhandorder]

I don't want to go start a competing organization and sell the merits of my organization. I am interested in participating in a discussion about what the bylaws of an organization should be to have wide appeal and support across the Ron Paul supporter spectrum. I am interested in participating in a discussion about the political and educational goals of such an organization. I am interested in participating in a discussion on the ownership/member dynamic. I am interested in participating in a discussion about how such an organization should be legally organized. I am very interested in the discussion and ownership I have zero interest running around saying "follow me".

Great I am happy to support any organization that has a base that actively supports liberty and allows for bottom up growth.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

I have a serious question: Do you think that Ron Paul wants to continue to have his good name associated with nutjobs?

Make the question relevant to the thread and define nutjobs.

[YumYum]

Make the question relevant to the thread and define nutjobs.

This is a Ron Paul forum...right? So, we can assume that anybody who doesn't agree with Dr. Paul's platform is a nutjob...right?

I talked to a political science professor the other day about Ron Paul. Here is what he said: "I have no problem with Ron Paul, it's the company he keeps."

I had to sleep long and hard on that one. Think about it.

[constituent]

My first post on the recent CFL debacle:



Nothing is going to change. For all of the bitching and moaning about the CFL I do not see people talking about taking ownership of the liberty pursuit to create the bottom up organization people said they wanted.

If you want transparency... own it.
If you want bottom up.... own it.
If you want grass roots control... own it.

A lot is debated around here. There are constant pissing contests on philosophy but regardless of all that bullshit I view many of my fellow Ron Paul supporters as thinking people. As thinking people if we are unable to articulate a contract that outlines the benefit of association while recognizing our differences we will never come together. We will continue to bitch about what the ruling class is doing to us and how mini-archy is better than anarchy or vice versa.

I thought with regards to political activism the talk and focus was picking battles with candidates we support. We know we do not have Ron Paul candidates for every race in the U.S. but I thought that didn't matter because there are already more candidates than what we can financially support. I thought people talked about changing things from the ground up not bragging about who has the most political capital in DC.

And when it comes to the merits of a liberty coop enterprise what do you think people will more receptive to when trying to grow it? Hey support XYZ with me or come be a co-owner and partner in the liberty pursuit?


yea yea yea, but what's it pay?

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

This is a Ron Paul forum...right? So, we can assume that anybody who doesn't agree with Dr. Paul's platform is a nutjob...right?

I talked to a political science professor the other day about Ron Paul. Here is what he said: "I have no problem with Ron Paul, it's the company he keeps."

I had to sleep long and hard on that one. Think about it.

YouTube - Ron Paul Discusses Civil Disobedience, Self-Government & More with Motorhome Diaries (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFYRHZpavX4)

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

yea yea yea, but what's it pay?

I do not have all of the answers. I advocate the merits for discussion of a bottom up grass roots organization and ownership.

[constituent]

I do not have all of the answers.

Well, that's your problem right there.

CFL hasn't gotten this far on a shoestring.

P.S. I'm not trying to be antagonistic, just realistic... and playing devil's advocate, of course. :)

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Well, that's your problem right there.

CFL hasn't gotten this far on a shoestring.

P.S. I'm not trying to be antagonistic, just realistic... and playing devil's advocate, of course. :)

I know.

I will respond by saying that I believe during the course of a serious discussion brilliant ideas would surface. I have nothing but the highest regards for the intellectual ability of my thinking piers.

[constituent]

I have nothing but the highest regards for the intellectual ability of my thinking piers.

Interesting... :p

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Interesting... :p

Doesn't mean I have to agree with everyone all the time :)