US Military Forcing High Schoolers To Take Test..!

[reduen]

Just a heads up here while it is once again fresh on my mind.

All of the JR's and SR's at my childrens high school had to take a military aptitude test a couple of weeks ago at their school... Talk about scary!!!

I even had a marine recruiter call my cell phone and demand to talk to my son the day before the tests were to be taken. I told him that I was his father and he could not talk to my son and that he should not try to speak with him again. He said that he was not authorized to do this and I told him that he should consider my words authorization enough...

They told all the students at the school that this test was sort of manditory and sort of not manditory... (Whatever that means my son did not take the test....!)

[Pepsi]

Getting them ready for the draft

[reduen]

That was my take on the situation..! They have already offered my son a full education at whatever college he chooses and said that he could finish school before he serves his duty... They are every big sporting event that we go to, watching and recruiting. (@#$%@&^*!!! They will try everything....) :mad:


Getting them ready for the draft

[QueenB4Liberty]

Wow. That's horrible. I don't want kids, but now I hope to God I never have boys.

[Pepsi]

Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery well help them decide what role in the military they be best at.

http://www.slate.com/id/2163864/

[KCIndy]

They told all the students at the school that this test was sort of manditory and sort of not manditory... (Whatever that means my son did not take the test....!)

Ha! Mandatory or non mandatory... Have you talked with the school's principal about this? Better yet, the superintendent of the district? Personally I wouldn't have any problem with giving students the option of taking the test... but why should it be mandatory, assuming it really was?

If you really want answers, I would show up - IN PERSON - and (politely) demand an explanation of who, what, when and why. But be sure to be polite... you won't make much progress if the police are whacking you on the head with their batons. :)

[Bruno]

good for you for not making him take the test!

Reminds me of stories in East Germany where they would come into the elementary schools and check children's resting heart rates to start identifying the snipers.

[reduen]

They already took my baby girl Queen... Since she left home two years ago, she has been raped twice and now carries a baby in her from the last one. Boy or girl, it does not matter anymore.... :(

But hey, now she can get a good education when she gets out... (If she lives that long...)


Wow. That's horrible. I don't want kids, but now I hope to God I never have boys.

[Cinderella]

They already took my baby girl Queen... Since she left home two years ago, she has been raped twice and now carries a baby in her from the last one. Boy or girl, it does not matter anymore.... :(

But hey, now she can get a good education when she gets out... (If she lives that long...)

WTF :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

and to think i almost joined the military when i was only 20...i ended up getting pregnant, and they called me 9 months to the day after i had my baby TELLING me i need to join to go to boot camp and loose baby weight! i told them no thanks and i asked them to never call me again...shortly after i was introduced to Dr. Paul thanks to the internet ;)

[dannno]

They already took my baby girl Queen... Since she left home two years ago, she has been raped twice and now carries a baby in her from the last one. Boy or girl, it does not matter anymore.... :(


Sacrificing for your country :confused::confused::confused:

This makes me want to go to high schools and spread anti-war propaganda.

Unfortunately they always have cops patrolling.. a big sign saying "You can't win an occupation. Don't sign up!" up on a fence or something is what I'm thinking..

[reduen]

Believe me Danno, I have thought of everything and more.... I gotta go for a while folks, this is making me sad again...


Sacrificing for your country :confused::confused::confused:

This makes me want to go to high schools and spread anti-war propaganda.

Unfortunately they always have cops patrolling.. a big sign saying "You can't win an occupation. Don't sign up!" up on a fence or something is what I'm thinking..

[t0rnado]

What state was this in?

[reduen]

Arkansas


What state was this in?

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

Hmmm....I remember having to take the ASVAB and having to Register for 'Selective Service' by the time I was 18. I don't think the ASVAB should be a requirement and 'Selective Service' is unConstitutional anyway.

[Toureg89]

Just a heads up here while it is once again fresh on my mind.

All of the JR's and SR's at my childrens high school had to take a military aptitude test a couple of weeks ago at their school... Talk about scary!!!

I even had a marine recruiter call my cell phone and demand to talk to my son the day before the tests were to be taken. I told him that I was his father and he could not talk to my son and that he should not try to speak with him again. He said that he was not authorized to do this and I told him that he should consider my words authorization enough...

They told all the students at the school that this test was sort of manditory and sort of not manditory... (Whatever that means my son did not take the test....!)
ill talk to my little brother, but just 2 years ago, it was not mandatory. :confused:

maybe the state/county/city/school officials are making it a requirement, but i doubt its a nationwide thing.

or maybe, i could see how JROTC teachers would make their students take the test, but, once again, this would be different than the notion that you posted.

[RCA]

good for you for not making him take the test!

Reminds me of stories in East Germany where they would come into the elementary schools and check children's resting heart rates to start identifying the snipers.

Do you have more info on this?

[Dieseler]

I just asked my boy about this as I remember it coming up a couple years back. He remembered it right away as the ASVAB thing and said it wasn't mandatory but he also reminded me that the school did send an opt out like thing in regards to the school giving your personal numbers to the branches of the military to contact you.
If you don't send it back, the school will give your number to the recruiters.

[Toureg89]

I just asked my boy about this as I remember it coming up a couple years back. He remembered it right away as the ASVAB thing and said it wasn't mandatory but he also reminded me that the school did send an opt out like thing in regards to the school giving your personal numbers to the branches of the military to contact you.
If you don't send it back, the school will give your number to the recruiters.
well, schools never respected the rights of students in the first place, so that's nothing new.:p

but glad to see that the claims of the OP are incorrect. :)

[nate895]

It has been traditional that most HS juniors or seniors take the ASVAB because it helps the military set how the scores should be setup since it is scored on a percentile basis. They want the percentiles to accurately reflect the overall population and not just those interested in enlisting. I am going to take it some time this week because I am considering enlisting in the reserves as a chaplain's assistant. Not everything is some evil conspiracy by the government to force itself down your throat.

[reduen]

The claims of the OP are not incorrect. They are exactly as stated.... I signed the opt out form at the beginning of the year as was suggested above and I still got a call from a recruiter....



well, schools never respected the rights of students in the first place, so that's nothing new.:p

but glad to see that the claims of the OP are incorrect. :)

[Dieseler]

The claims of the OP are not incorrect. They are exactly as stated.... I signed the opt out form at the beginning of the year as was suggested above and I still got a call from a recruiter....

I'm not doubtin' ya or disputin' your word Red, I was just stating what I was remembered of from my boy after I asked him to remember it for me.

[Toureg89]

US Military Forcing High Schoolers To Take Test..!

The claims of the OP are not incorrect. They are exactly as stated.... I signed the opt out form at the beginning of the year as was suggested above and I still got a call from a recruiter....
not trying to attack you. ;)

but i fail to see how the US Military is forcing high schoolers to take a test...

as another member stated it, it appears the SCHOOL SYSTEM, not our MILITARY SYSTEM, is forcing said test.

[idirtify]

Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery well help them decide what role in the military they be best at.

http://www.slate.com/id/2163864/

Failed to see the actual test(s). Went to your link, clicked on a couple more, then they wanted my info to go further. No thanks.

I think we need to see the actual tests. Have someone get one and put it up here. Maybe a student could say they want to take one, then get it and just walk out with it. I just wanna see one.

[nate895]

Failed to see the actual test(s). Went to your link, clicked on a couple more, then they wanted my info to go further. No thanks.

I think we need to see the actual tests. Have someone get one and put it up here. Maybe a student could say they want to take one, then get it and just walk out with it. I just wanna see one.

They're computerized. Having taken a pre-ASVAB, and having looked up the contents, they aren't anything scandalous, just a general aptitude test on a variety of basic subjects. I'm taking the actual one of Friday. I can assure you though, the world isn't ending because HS juniors and seniors are taking the ASVAB.

[ghengis86]

It has been traditional that most HS juniors or seniors take the ASVAB because it helps the military set how the scores should be setup since it is scored on a percentile basis. They want the percentiles to accurately reflect the overall population and not just those interested in enlisting. I am going to take it some time this week because I am considering enlisting in the reserves as a chaplain's assistant. Not everything is some evil conspiracy by the government to force itself down your throat.

Nate, please reconsider. There are a million better things you can do to earn money and/or serve God and/or get an education or whatever else you wish to do. Please read some of Laurence Vance over at the LRC archives:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance-arch.html

Good luck with your decision, but I pray you choose another path.
Regards,

Letter to a Christian Young Man Regarding Joining the Military
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance163.html
by Laurence M. Vance



The following letter was sent to a Christian young man I know who was considering joining the military. He hasn’t joined as of yet, and I hope and pray that he doesn’t. I am posting this letter publicly in the hope that it might persuade some Christian young men I don’t know from joining the military.

Dear ______:

I have been told that you are thinking about joining the military. I hope I am misinformed. I understand that you are having trouble finding a job, but think that, as a Christian young man, you are making a big mistake if you join today’s military.

First of all, you were raised in a Christian home and went to Christian schools your whole life. You will be needlessly exposed to much wickedness in the military. You will unnecessarily face temptations that you have never been exposed to. Why put yourself in this position? It is a fact that there is a network of brothels around the world to service U.S. troops stationed overseas. I know that you are a clean young man and have a girlfriend, but don’t deceive yourself into thinking that you can remain clean in the military. Because I write on war and military issues, I have scores of veterans, Christian and otherwise, who have written me that will back up everything I am saying.

Second, it is one thing to join the military out of a sense of patriotism, but how does joining the military for financial reasons make you any different than a mercenary? I know that sounds harsh, but would you consider joining the military if you had a good job right now?

Third, the senseless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have no end in sight. There is no guarantee that you will not be sent to Iraq, Afghanistan, or some other God-forsaken place where you could be in danger of losing life or limb. And for what?

Fourth, you can’t trust military recruiters. Like a car salesman, they are trying to make their monthly quota. They have been caught on tape lying to young men, even telling them that no troops were being sent to Iraq anymore.

Fifth, I know that you have a very low opinion of the new president, Barack Obama. I share your opinion completely. As a member of the military, Obama would be your commander in chief. You could be sent anywhere to fight for Obama. Are you willing to fight and possibly die because Obama thinks it necessary to send American troops into some other war?

Sixth, in the military, you will be expected to blindly follow the orders of your officers. Independent thought is not tolerated. Please consider the words of U.S. Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler (1881–1940), a two-time Congressional Medal of Honor winner: "Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service." Major General Butler became disillusioned with military service and wrote a famous book called War Is a Racket in which he said: "War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives."

Seventh, the purpose of the U.S. military is to defend America. But not only is the military not being used in defense of the country, it is being used to guard the borders, patrol the coasts, and defend the shores of other countries. The purpose of the military has been perverted by the interventionist foreign policy of the United States. There are American troops stationed in 147 countries and 10 territories. I know this for a fact because I have researched this in official Department of Defense documents and written about it on many occasions. The current use of the military is contrary to the American Founding Fathers’ policy of nonintervention in the affairs of other countries.

Eighth, joining the military may have an adverse effect on your future family. I know that you have a girlfriend that you are very serious about. You should know that the breakup of marriages and relationships because of soldiers being deployed to Iraq and elsewhere is epidemic. Multiple duty tours and increased deployment terms are the death knell for stable families. What makes you think that the military will never send you away from your family for an extended period of time? You know that the possibility exists, so why gamble with your family? And then, as if being away from your family wasn’t bad enough on you and them, some soldiers come home with such physical and/or mental problems that they are unable to return to civilian life. Debt, doctors, and divorce lawyers soon consume their finances.

Ninth, joining the military means that you may be put into a position where you will have to kill or be killed. What guarantee do you have that you will be in a non-combat role? Can you in good conscience pull the trigger against any "enemy" that the U.S. government sends you thousands of miles away to kill?

And finally, you would have problems even if you went into the military as a chaplain. Taxpayer-supported chaplains have to serve two masters: God and the state. Compromise is inevitable. He that pays the piper calls the tune. To become a chaplain in the U.S. military, one must obtain an ecclesiastical endorsement from an organization approved by the Pentagon as an Endorsing Ecclesiastical Organization. According to the chaplain requirements, one of the things that the endorsement should certify is that a military chaplain should be "sensitive to religious pluralism and able to provide for the free exercise of religion by all military personnel, their family members and civilians who work for the Army." I know that you are a conservative Christian and are averse to compromising your religious convictions. You will, however, be expected to do just that. As a chaplain, you would be expected to ask God to bless the actions of U.S. troops even if they were fighting in an unjust war. Can you in good conscience do this?

Please remember that if you join the military, there is no getting out until your enlistment period is up. I hope and pray that you don’t make the mistake of joining.

In Christ Jesus our Savior,

Laurence Vance


If any readers are veterans, consider themselves to be Christians, agree with the sentiments expressed in this letter, and would be willing to let me append their name, branch, and rank to any future use of this letter, please contact me. The fact that you "served" and I didn’t might be what is needed to help persuade some young man (or woman) to not join the military.

February 13, 2009

[TonySutton]

Hey everyone, retired Marine who spent a tour as a recruiter.

The ASVAB is a series of tests which cover a variety of subjects. It is offered by the military as a tool for schools to assess their students. They share the results with the school so counselors can better advise students of their strong areas when deciding on a career. Of course, this comes with a catch. The military gets the results also.

Information regarding personal information is generally covered by state or local laws. If your information is given out it might be because the school district has the option and chose to release it. In some states if the schools provide information to schools, address etc, they are required to also share it with the Armed Forces recruiters.

In any case, if you disagree with the school policy take your complaint to the school board.

As a side note, if you get a call from a recruiter and do not want them to call back, simply tell them to remove your name and personal info from their list and never call back again. Get their name and rank, make sure they know you are writing it down. Let them know that if you get another call you will call their Commanding Officer and your State and Federal Representatives.

[idirtify]

They're computerized. Having taken a pre-ASVAB, and having looked up the contents, they aren't anything scandalous, just a general aptitude test on a variety of basic subjects. I'm taking the actual one of Friday. I can assure you though, the world isn't ending because HS juniors and seniors are taking the ASVAB.

Gosh thanks for the info and assurance ;), but I’d like to see the tests.

[idirtify]

Hey everyone, retired Marine who spent a tour as a recruiter.

The ASVAB is a series of tests which cover a variety of subjects. It is offered by the military as a tool for schools to assess their students. They share the results with the school so counselors can better advise students of their strong areas when deciding on a career. Of course, this comes with a catch. The military gets the results also.

Information regarding personal information is generally covered by state or local laws. If your information is given out it might be because the school district has the option and chose to release it. In some states if the schools provide information to schools, address etc, they are required to also share it with the Armed Forces recruiters.

In any case, if you disagree with the school policy take your complaint to the school board.

As a side note, if you get a call from a recruiter and do not want them to call back, simply tell them to remove your name and personal info from their list and never call back again. Get their name and rank, make sure they know you are writing it down. Let them know that if you get another call you will call their Commanding Officer and your State and Federal Representatives.

Hey tony, get us one of those tests. Use your clout or know-how. We want to see one here.

[nate895]

Nate, please reconsider. There are a million better things you can do to earn money and/or serve God and/or get an education or whatever else you wish to do. Please read some of Laurence Vance over at the LRC archives:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance-arch.html

Good luck with your decision, but I pray you choose another path.
Regards,

Letter to a Christian Young Man Regarding Joining the Military
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance163.html
by Laurence M. Vance



The following letter was sent to a Christian young man I know who was considering joining the military. He hasn’t joined as of yet, and I hope and pray that he doesn’t. I am posting this letter publicly in the hope that it might persuade some Christian young men I don’t know from joining the military.

Dear ______:

I have been told that you are thinking about joining the military. I hope I am misinformed. I understand that you are having trouble finding a job, but think that, as a Christian young man, you are making a big mistake if you join today’s military.

First of all, you were raised in a Christian home and went to Christian schools your whole life. You will be needlessly exposed to much wickedness in the military. You will unnecessarily face temptations that you have never been exposed to. Why put yourself in this position? It is a fact that there is a network of brothels around the world to service U.S. troops stationed overseas. I know that you are a clean young man and have a girlfriend, but don’t deceive yourself into thinking that you can remain clean in the military. Because I write on war and military issues, I have scores of veterans, Christian and otherwise, who have written me that will back up everything I am saying.

Second, it is one thing to join the military out of a sense of patriotism, but how does joining the military for financial reasons make you any different than a mercenary? I know that sounds harsh, but would you consider joining the military if you had a good job right now?

Third, the senseless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have no end in sight. There is no guarantee that you will not be sent to Iraq, Afghanistan, or some other God-forsaken place where you could be in danger of losing life or limb. And for what?

Fourth, you can’t trust military recruiters. Like a car salesman, they are trying to make their monthly quota. They have been caught on tape lying to young men, even telling them that no troops were being sent to Iraq anymore.

Fifth, I know that you have a very low opinion of the new president, Barack Obama. I share your opinion completely. As a member of the military, Obama would be your commander in chief. You could be sent anywhere to fight for Obama. Are you willing to fight and possibly die because Obama thinks it necessary to send American troops into some other war?

Sixth, in the military, you will be expected to blindly follow the orders of your officers. Independent thought is not tolerated. Please consider the words of U.S. Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler (1881–1940), a two-time Congressional Medal of Honor winner: "Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service." Major General Butler became disillusioned with military service and wrote a famous book called War Is a Racket in which he said: "War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives."

Seventh, the purpose of the U.S. military is to defend America. But not only is the military not being used in defense of the country, it is being used to guard the borders, patrol the coasts, and defend the shores of other countries. The purpose of the military has been perverted by the interventionist foreign policy of the United States. There are American troops stationed in 147 countries and 10 territories. I know this for a fact because I have researched this in official Department of Defense documents and written about it on many occasions. The current use of the military is contrary to the American Founding Fathers’ policy of nonintervention in the affairs of other countries.

Eighth, joining the military may have an adverse effect on your future family. I know that you have a girlfriend that you are very serious about. You should know that the breakup of marriages and relationships because of soldiers being deployed to Iraq and elsewhere is epidemic. Multiple duty tours and increased deployment terms are the death knell for stable families. What makes you think that the military will never send you away from your family for an extended period of time? You know that the possibility exists, so why gamble with your family? And then, as if being away from your family wasn’t bad enough on you and them, some soldiers come home with such physical and/or mental problems that they are unable to return to civilian life. Debt, doctors, and divorce lawyers soon consume their finances.

Ninth, joining the military means that you may be put into a position where you will have to kill or be killed. What guarantee do you have that you will be in a non-combat role? Can you in good conscience pull the trigger against any "enemy" that the U.S. government sends you thousands of miles away to kill?

And finally, you would have problems even if you went into the military as a chaplain. Taxpayer-supported chaplains have to serve two masters: God and the state. Compromise is inevitable. He that pays the piper calls the tune. To become a chaplain in the U.S. military, one must obtain an ecclesiastical endorsement from an organization approved by the Pentagon as an Endorsing Ecclesiastical Organization. According to the chaplain requirements, one of the things that the endorsement should certify is that a military chaplain should be "sensitive to religious pluralism and able to provide for the free exercise of religion by all military personnel, their family members and civilians who work for the Army." I know that you are a conservative Christian and are averse to compromising your religious convictions. You will, however, be expected to do just that. As a chaplain, you would be expected to ask God to bless the actions of U.S. troops even if they were fighting in an unjust war. Can you in good conscience do this?

Please remember that if you join the military, there is no getting out until your enlistment period is up. I hope and pray that you don’t make the mistake of joining.

In Christ Jesus our Savior,

Laurence Vance


If any readers are veterans, consider themselves to be Christians, agree with the sentiments expressed in this letter, and would be willing to let me append their name, branch, and rank to any future use of this letter, please contact me. The fact that you "served" and I didn’t might be what is needed to help persuade some young man (or woman) to not join the military.

February 13, 2009

I probably am not going to join. I really don't feel the call, but sometimes it kind of feels like I do. If my mom or my church object wholeheartedly, I won't do it, and I have told the recruiter as much, at least as far as my mom goes.

Edit: I should note that I think Vance's exegesis is a bit tortured and he is reading into the text his anti-war views. I think the Bible would teach that war is the last resort for the Christian, but Vance takes it to the extreme and reads things into the text and won't take into consideration the fact the Christian is, by nature of being a Christian, always a warrior as well.

[Toureg89]

Hey tony, get us one of those tests. Use your clout or know-how. We want to see one here.
took it 2 years ago. it asks questions that deal with math, electronics, and automotive maintenance.

basically helps to decide which career path would best suit your skills.

[reduen]

The title of this thread might have been a bit misleading and as you can see, I have made some changes. The claims within this thread are 100% accurate.

As a parent, I heard that this was going to happen the night before it happened. I did sign an opt out notice that was brought home by my eldest son at the beginning of this school year but it said nothing of any military aptitude test that would be given.

Even though I signed the "opt out" notice, a recruiter called my cell phone, interrupting a very important dinner. He demanded that I let him speak with my son and when I told him that I did not wish for him to speak with my son ever or at least until after he turned 18, he stated that he was "not authorized not to speak with your son". I then let him know that I am the father of my son and he had my authorization not to speak with my son and that would be enough....

Both of my boys told me the next day that they went to school and thought that something had happened because there were so many military people there when they arrived. They also told me that the school announced that the test was "sort of mandatory' if they had not turned in an opt out form prior to that day.

Now, I do not really care who was trying to force/strong arm the kids into taking that test. Whether it was the school or the military that was in charge of it, is really not that important to me. I felt that it was wrong and just wanted to let everyone know about it while it was on my mind again....

Take it or leave it.....


not trying to attack you. ;)

but i fail to see how the US Military is forcing high schoolers to take a test...

as another member stated it, it appears the SCHOOL SYSTEM, not our MILITARY SYSTEM, is forcing said test.

[idirtify]

took it 2 years ago. it asks questions that deal with math, electronics, and automotive maintenance.

basically helps to decide which career path would best suit your skills.

Excuse me while I take some LIBERTY with your comment.

“It asks questions that deal with math, electronics, automotive maintenance, firearms expertise, homicide engineering, biology termination, deception science, koolaid psychology, and sociopathic psychoses. It basically helps to decide which career path would best suit your skills, whether it be MIC Shill or MIC Thug for example.”

Just having some fun at your expense, that’s all ;).

[cindy25]

Wow. That's horrible. I don't want kids, but now I hope to God I never have boys.

if they pass a draft it will not just be boys. FDR had already passed a girls draft in the house but died before it reached the senate

[Toureg89]

Excuse me while I take some LIBERTY with your comment.

“It asks questions that deal with math, electronics, automotive maintenance, firearms expertise, homicide engineering, biology termination, deception science, koolaid psychology, and sociopathic psychoses. It basically helps to decide which career path would best suit your skills, whether it be MIC Shill or MIC Thug for example.”

Just having some fun at your expense, that’s all ;).

lol. :rolleyes:

the test i took, never asked anything dealing with biology or psychology.

the military might be used for unconstitutional and immoral things, but the ASVAB is completely devoid of morals or biases, so yeah...

it merely asks questions that undoubtedly deal in exact facts.

The title of this thread might have been a bit misleading and as you can see, I have made some changes.
;)

[cindy25]

I think a correct title would be High school forces students to take military test.

[libertarian4321]

The military has a huge variety of available jobs- most civilian jobs have a military counterpart. You can be an infantryman, mechanic, environmental scientist, cook, engineer, pilot, chaplain, doctor, personnel clerk, accountant, nurse, entomological technician, veterinarian, linguist, radioman, policeman, electrician, computer specialist, medical equipment repairman, supply clerk, and hundreds of others.

The ASVAB is designed to help determine where those who do decide to enter the military might go. For example, if you score high on the mechanical portion, you might be trained as a mechanic. If you score high on math, you might end up as an medical or engineering technician.

BTW, the military can't "force" it on a school. They can make it available, but only the school can make students take it.

[reduen]

"BTW, the military can't "force" it on a school. They can make it available, but only the school can make students take it."

You are assuming that everyone is following the law in this case...

[XNavyNuke]

DOE-DOD Joint Release 10/9/2002 (http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/pdf/ht100902c.pdf)


Recognizing the challenges faced by military recruiters, Congress recently passed legislation that requires high schools to provide to military recruiters, upon request, access to secondary school students and directory information on those students. Both the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 and the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2002 reflect these requirements.

I see no reason why "access" would necessarily be defined so as to exclude the administration of tests.

Military test provokes ire of some parents (http://www.suwanneedemocrat.com/suwannee/local_story_335132935.html)

Early Christmas present for those in this Florida school.


Donna Odom, the parent of an 11th grade student, spoke recently with the Democrat about issues she has with the exam and the way it is administered at the school.

"The students were told that they had no option but to take it," Odom said. "They were told it was a skills assessment test sponsored by the military."

Although juniors are required to take the ASVAB at SHS, the option to withhold personal information, including social security numbers, from recruiters is available, but left to the school's discretion.

SHS, like many schools, has selected to share students results and personal contact information with recruiters, according to Simpson.

XNN

[TonySutton]

Another note I would like to add. Some students who take the test do not take it seriously and just fill out the answers randomly or in a pattern because they are unhappy with having to take the test :P

[Toureg89]

[
Military test provokes ire of some parents (http://www.suwanneedemocrat.com/suwannee/local_story_335132935.html)
:rolleyes:

i was in a Florida high school less than 3 years ago.

i've never been to another school, but i always had a feeling that the recruiting element at my school was pretty strong, especially amongst JROTC.

the amount of people i know who joined the military, i call friends, and hung out with,
numbers more than the amount of fingers i have.

but NONE OF THEM were forced to take the ASVAB. nor was i.

and i still doubt the military is the one doing the "forcing", its probably more the school admin.

[JeNNiF00F00]

not trying to attack you. ;)

but i fail to see how the US Military is forcing high schoolers to take a test...

as another member stated it, it appears the SCHOOL SYSTEM, not our MILITARY SYSTEM, is forcing said test.

They did this to us in highschool back in the 90s. What they do is pull the entire junior class into the auditorium, then they tell us that we need to take this test, that won't effect our grades, but its important because it would help us determine what we would do well in when we graduated. Real Army jrotc sergents ran the entire thing but they didn't tell us about recruiting or anything. It was more about "finding the right job for us", you know for our own good. Seems that I remember them marching in and kind of showing off their gun spinning and stuff. We were stupid kids just happy to get out of class as it was somewhat entertaining.

[TinCanToNA]

Wait wait wait...
You're telling me... that a school... FORCED ITS STUDENTS... to take a test... !!!

Hold on now, you're also telling me that a RECRUITER actually CALLED YOU offering your kid a job? :rolleyes:


I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh my ass off at this. Talk about unproductive paranoia.

If you really, really don't want to hear from recruiters again (at least for a few years), you call them and say you might be interested in joining, but have severe asthma or something like that. You'll be added to their list of ineligibles until the paperwork gets lost.

[reduen]

Well, it is easy to see the neocons in here. Take the info for what it is worth, send your children off to die if you want but leave mine alone... Off to take care of real business now...

[reduen]

We do not have a rotc program here. (Not yet at least..) :)


They did this to us in highschool back in the 90s. What they do is pull the entire junior class into the auditorium, then they tell us that we need to take this test, that won't effect our grades, but its important because it would help us determine what we would do well in when we graduated. Real Army jrotc sergents ran the entire thing but they didn't tell us about recruiting or anything. It was more about "finding the right job for us", you know for our own good. Seems that I remember them marching in and kind of showing off their gun spinning and stuff. We were stupid kids just happy to get out of class as it was somewhat entertaining.

[JeNNiF00F00]

We do not have a rotc program here. (Not yet at least..) :)

Right, but it still has the same psychological aspect on the child. When you have someone dressed in a military uniform giving orders to do something, youre indoctrinated to do it. Well, I was anyways and I was only 15ish. I didn't ask any questions I just did it. Pretty intimidating, as they're dressed in full fatigues, and armed etc.

For these people saying "force" is not involved, well not physical force but like I said its fairly intimidating to some to just go ahead and get it done. They use same tactics as police officers to get people to accommodate what they want. Its totally psychological and outright disgusting. :mad:

[squarepusher]

Sacrificing for your country :confused::confused::confused:

This makes me want to go to high schools and spread anti-war propaganda.

Unfortunately they always have cops patrolling.. a big sign saying "You can't win an occupation. Don't sign up!" up on a fence or something is what I'm thinking..

haha surprise double meaning?

[Toureg89]

They did this to us in highschool back in the 90s. What they do is pull the entire junior class into the auditorium, then they tell us that we need to take this test, that won't effect our grades, but its important because it would help us determine what we would do well in when we graduated.
once again, the school is responsible, not the military.

the military doesn't have control over school resources (auditorium).


Real Army jrotc sergents ran the entire thing but they didn't tell us about recruiting or anything. It was more about "finding the right job for us", you know for our own good. Seems that I remember them marching in and kind of showing off their gun spinning and stuff. We were stupid kids just happy to get out of class as it was somewhat entertaining.
so, you are saying, that fellow high school students forced you to take the test...:confused:

then i can't see how it would fall on the military or the school, except for the fact that the school is responsible for punishing bullies...

idk about you, but i never let any of my peers make my choices for me...

and yes, we are all a bunch of neocons, because we are seeking out the truth.

[RideTheDirt]

The other day a guy I knew in HS walked in my work w/ another guy wearing fatigues and asked to leave some propaganda. I said sure! As soon as they left I went to chuck em in the trash but they were gone! I checked the trash and there they were. My co-worker, and wife of a soldier who was just deployed had thrown them away.

It was great!

[UK4Paul]

Another note I would like to add. Some students who take the test do not take it seriously and just fill out the answers randomly or in a pattern because they are unhappy with having to take the test :P

Was gonna say... if you do take the test, make sure you fail miserably at showing an aptitude in anything.

[JeNNiF00F00]

Was gonna say... if you do take the test, make sure you fail miserably at showing an aptitude in anything.

This was what I did...I just made pictures filling in the bubbles. One instance in HS where slacking off paid off. lol

[JeNNiF00F00]

once again, the school is responsible, not the military.

the military doesn't have control over school resources (auditorium).


so, you are saying, that fellow high school students forced you to take the test...:confused:

then i can't see how it would fall on the military or the school, except for the fact that the school is responsible for punishing bullies...

idk about you, but i never let any of my peers make my choices for me...

and yes, we are all a bunch of neocons, because we are seeking out the truth.

Who cares? The military is just as bad for indoctrinating as the school is. Oh, and not all of us are neocons. Thats not what this movement is about.

[Toureg89]

Who cares? The military is just as bad for indoctrinating as the school is.
and? i said that they weren't?

to be mad at propaganda/misinformation/indoctrination/exc. is one thing, to blame one problem on X and its Y's fault is another.

if you are pissed at debt collectors because they keep harassing you, you don't criticize debt collectors for pushing credit cards on you, you criticize debt collectors for harassing you, and you criticize the credit card people who pushed the credit cards on to you, and then sold the debt to the debt collectors.

the military is not the organization making children take tests, its the school system.

maybe the military is pressuring some school admins more than others, but i have yet to see anybody in the public schools i attended just 3 years ago to be forced to take a test by anybody in the military.

oh, and if by "JROTC srg.", you meant the RETIRED military person in charge of the JROTC program at the school you went to, once again, once they retire and become an JROTC teacher, they are beholden to the school system, NOT the military system.

Oh, and not all of us are neocons. Thats not what this movement is about.
lol, i am not the one who made that claim. the OP did.

which is a pretty brave claim to make when i dont recall anyone in this thread having discussed or offered an opinion foreign policy or federal centralization of power to push moral conservatism.

but i guess because some of the people in this thread hold no strong bias against the content of the ASVAB, or see the OP's original claims of hyperbole as somewhat skewed, that makes those people neocons. :rolleyes:

[JeNNiF00F00]

and? i said that they weren't?

to be mad at propaganda/misinformation/indoctrination/exc. is one thing, to blame one problem on X and its Y's fault is another.

if you are pissed at debt collectors because they keep harassing you, you don't criticize debt collectors for pushing credit cards on you, you criticize debt collectors for harassing you, and you criticize the credit card people who pushed the credit cards on to you, and then sold the debt to the debt collectors.

the military is not the organization making children take tests, its the school system.

maybe the military is pressuring some school admins more than others, but i have yet to see anybody in the public schools i attended just 3 years ago to be forced to take a test by anybody in the military.

oh, and if by "JROTC srg.", you meant the RETIRED military person in charge of the JROTC program at the school you went to, once again, once they retire and become an JROTC teacher, they are beholden to the school system, NOT the military system.

lol, i am not the one who made that claim. the OP did.

which is a pretty brave claim to make when i dont recall anyone in this thread having discussed or offered an opinion foreign policy or federal centralization of power to push moral conservatism.

but i guess because some of the people in this thread hold no strong bias against the content of the ASVAB, or see the OP's original claims of hyperbole as somewhat skewed, that makes those people neocons. :rolleyes:

You totally miss the point. The point is both public schools, and the military are govt run. Same difference as far as Im concerned as they are paid and run by the same people. Doesnt matter if its the schools fault or the militarys fault.

[UtahApocalypse]

Somewhat Related topic:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=9550663 (pics at link)


ST. GEORGE -- Some parents don't like what they're seeing on a high school football team poster in St. George.

The photo, which was taken last August, features members of the Desert Hills High School team standing and sitting around military Humvees, some carrying military weapons.

"It's misleading to these very impressionable kids," said parent Carrie Lieshman.

She not only believes the poster sends the wrong message. She told KCSG-TV it's incredibly insensitive, given another student, Tucker Thayer, was shot and killed at the school last November when a prop gun accidentally fired.

"Our students are good young people and are certainly not trying to put anyone down, would never do that intentionally," School Principal Ray Brooks said.

He told the television station, "If we had known that there would be a concern, we would certainly have been sensitive to that."

The district says it's investigating.

[LibForestPaul]

If you really want answers, I would show up - IN PERSON - and (politely) demand an explanation of who, what, when and why. But be sure to be polite... you won't make much progress if the police are whacking you on the head with their batons. :)

The gay pigs over here do not whack you on the head, unfortunately.

[Dieseler]

I'd be more concerned about the obamanizing for America that is fixing to take place in public school myself. As stupid as kids are today it's going to take at least two hours a day after school to un-do the brainwashing they receive during the day in school.
Luckily for us, at least from what I get from my daughters accounts, the typical public school teacher is no more educated than the student.

[Toureg89]

You totally miss the point. The point is both public schools, and the military are govt run. Same difference as far as Im concerned as they are paid and run by the same people. Doesnt matter if its the schools fault or the militarys fault.
sure, ok.:rolleyes:

as long as you don't expect police to hear your complaints on fire fighting, expect garbage men to hear complaints about police abuses, or expect firefighters to hear complaints on trash collection.

[MelissaWV]

Wow. Someone old enough to be taking that test should be old enough to handle himself. It's pretty embarrassing that his dad is still yelling at people on his behalf.

He could have asked not to take the test, but most likely he just wanted to get out of class and (like this test is often presented) it was just a "job skills" test anyhow. Frankly, as others have already said, the test is a joke, and most people treat it as such. I took another similar test and it said I should be a social worker.

I did get calls from recruiters at the house, which I generally handled by questioning why they were enticing me to enter into a contractual obligation, when it would be non-binding for me to do so (being under 18 and all). The one that pissed me off called me and spoke exclusively in Spanish. It seems I had scored very high on "linguistics" (which was odd, because I didn't remember there being a section related to linguistics that would have told him so). I believe my response was somewhere along the lines of "If I scored well in 'linguistics' then why wouldn't I speak English?" I'm fairly sure they just saw my last name, and decided I was at least bilingual.

Instead of getting angry at the military, or even at the school, be angry that the situation wasn't handled better. Yes, the school and the military will do all they can at career fairs and via tests to get your kid to conform. Your main job should be to make sure he can fend for himself when the situation arises.

$0.02

[Dieseler]

Don't join nothin' that has the potential to mobilize.
Don't sign nothin' a lawyer wrote till your lawyer splains it to you.

[JeNNiF00F00]

sure, ok.:rolleyes:

as long as you don't expect police to hear your complaints on fire fighting, expect garbage men to hear complaints about police abuses, or expect firefighters to hear complaints on trash collection.

Hmmm...sounds like the same argument that socialists use. :rolleyes:

[Toureg89]

Hmmm...sounds like the same argument that socialists use. :rolleyes:
no connection whatsoever.

socialists argue for government run programs.

i am arguing that this thread is attributing the problems of one government program to another.

how would an immoral military be able to force children to take the ASVAB if the schools children attended were privately run? (a small minority of schools are private, but, sadly, atleast here in Fl., the state is the most pervasive with the failing public school system)

if one is going to criticize a government organization or program, the least they can do is attribute the right criticisms to the right organizations or programs, especially when the criticisms are warranted, since doing otherwise will make one look like an ass AND discredit their movement.