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dr. hfn
01-30-2010, 07:13 PM
The American Empire: Before the Fall

Big News! Last year, Campaign for Liberty commissioned Bruce Fein, president of the American Freedom Agenda and former Deputy Attorney General, to write a foreign policy book. We needed a hard core educational tool that we can circulate to show the absurdity of the warfare state from someone with rock-ribbed intellectual credentials.

The book is complete and is now in its final editing process! Campaign for Liberty will publish, print, and promote this book through our contacts and social networks and mount a major media campaign to make sure this work gets serious attention at a critical time.

For the first time, pasted below is an exclusive sneak peak for our members. I cannot wait to get this published!


THE AMERICAN EMPIRE: BEFORE THE FALL

by Bruce Fein



Chapter 1

The American Empire At Its Meridian



It is the best of times for the American Empire.

It is the worst of times for the American Republic.

President Barack Obama has embraced if not bettered the national security instruction of the Bush-Cheney duumvirate, confounding messianic expectations.

His Nobel Peace Prize address boasted of the American Empire's six decades of policing the world, and of his unchecked power reminiscent of British Kings to commence war in ostensible defense of the United States or for professed humanitarian purposes on his say-so alone. The President spoke while he expanded United States wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan against adversaries unthreatening to United States sovereignty.

More than 100,000 American troops are fighting in Iraq while civil war or partition looms.

The post-9/11 perpetual and global war against international terrorism continues unabated. The United States claims unique legal power to violate the sovereignty of every foreign country in seeking to capture or kill an Al Qaeda suspect.

Now United States weapons, money, troops, military advisors, and professed nation-building bureaucrats are poised to intervene in Yemen in response to a foiled Christmas day attempt to blow up a commercial aircraft by a Nigerian Muslim youth who may have been radicalized there. The Chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, Joe Lieberman (Ind. Conn.), declares the incident an act of war that requires a military, not a law enforcement response. He advocates for the would-be bomber, 23-year-old Umar Farouk Abdulmutullab, to be regarded as a prisoner of war and prosecuted before a military commission. Somalia is next in the queue to be invaded by the American Empire because of the presence there of the Somali terrorist organization Al Shabab, which collaborates with Al Qaeda in Yemen.

Tiny Denmark, whose defense budget is a decimal point of the Pentagon's, is less easily frightened. On January 1, 2010, a Somali Muslim attempted to assassinate artist Kurt Westergaard in revenge for a 2005 cartoon depicting the Prophet Mohammad as a terrorist. The cartoon had earlier provoked Muslim firebombing attacks on Danish diplomatic missions and three other radical Islamic plots to kill the Danish cartoonist. Denmark's intelligence chief asserted the assassination incident was "terrorist related," with a possible connection to Al Shabab. The Danish Prime Minister descried the terrorism as "an attack on our open society and our democracy." Yet Denmark did not declare war on terrorism or against Al Shabab. It did not declare the would-be assassin a prisoner of war. It charged him with attempted murder subject to prosecution in civilian courts with customary due process protections. The American Empire would have characterized the crime as war, and the perpetrator as a warrior.

Stories featured in leading newspapers and broadcasts corroborate General Douglas MacArthur's post-World War II observation: "Our economy is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear." Never has United States sovereignty been so invulnerable. Never has the United States been so frightened of foreign danger.

The Empire is electrified by a feeling of self-righteousness. President Dwight D. Eisenhower sermonized: "America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great."

The Founding Fathers would be shocked. They had constructed an American Republic that vehemently opposed crusades, constant warfare and virtual deification of the President. They had pledged their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor to defeat the British Empire, and to renounce entangling alliances as the bane of peace, checks and balances, limited government, and individual liberty. President Thomas Jefferson's First Inaugural Address proclaimed: "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations-entangling alliances with none." President Grover Cleveland elaborated on the foreign policy of the United States inherited from the Constitution's makers:

It is the policy of peace suitable to our interests. It is the policy of neutrality; rejecting any share in foreign brawls and ambitions on other continents, and repelling their intrusion here. It is the policy of Monroe and of Washington and Jefferson: Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.

But the Founding Fathers' handiwork has turned to ashes. The American Empire's annual military budget exceeds $690 billion, greater than the yearly military expenditures of the next 25 countries combined. United States military spending climbs despite the disappearance of all foreign dangers to United States sovereignty.

I'm also proud to announce that Bruce Fein will be joining us at CPAC 2010 for a C4L-sponsored panel on why we need to oppose the War on Terror. It's sure to be an exciting event!

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=32006

dr. hfn
01-30-2010, 07:24 PM
I totally forgive C4L now! But it still needs reformed...

MRoCkEd
01-30-2010, 07:26 PM
This is great

MsDoodahs
01-30-2010, 07:33 PM
I totally forgive C4L now! But it still needs reformed...

lol

sucker!!!!

tpreitzel
01-30-2010, 07:40 PM
lol

sucker!!!!

;)

newbitech
01-30-2010, 07:44 PM
The American Empire: Before the Fall

Big News! Last year, Campaign for Liberty commissioned Bruce Fein, president of the American Freedom Agenda and former Deputy Attorney General, to write a foreign policy book. We needed a hard core educational tool that we can circulate to show the absurdity of the warfare state from someone with rock-ribbed intellectual credentials.

The book is complete and is now in its final editing process! Campaign for Liberty will publish, print, and promote this book through our contacts and social networks and mount a major media campaign to make sure this work gets serious attention at a critical time.

For the first time, pasted below is an exclusive sneak peak for our members. I cannot wait to get this published!


I'm also proud to announce that Bruce Fein will be joining us at CPAC 2010 for a C4L-sponsored panel on why we need to oppose the War on Terror. It's sure to be an exciting event!

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=32006 (http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=32006)

is it a free book?

Austin
01-30-2010, 07:49 PM
...


I'm also proud to announce that Bruce Fein will be joining us at CPAC 2010 for a C4L-sponsored panel on why we need to oppose the War on Terror. It's sure to be an exciting event!

[/URL][URL]http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=32006 (http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=32006)

That's pretty exciting! He was there last year on the Liberty Forum too. :) Last week to get your tickets, http://www.yaliberty.org/cpac

RCA
01-30-2010, 08:10 PM
I wonder how many more books could be distributed for $350,000.

Cowlesy
01-30-2010, 08:15 PM
Oh man, Bruce Fein is great -- will definitely buy this book.

MRoCkEd
01-30-2010, 08:16 PM
I wonder how many more books could be distributed for $350,000.

Once more, that money could not have been spent elsewhere. It was donated for that commercial only.



And yeah, Bruce Fein is great.

Matt Collins
02-01-2010, 08:34 PM
YouTube - Ron Paul Rally For The Republic Bruce Fein Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJiq1zDcc7c)

Knightskye
02-01-2010, 11:49 PM
Very cool.

CFL isn't allowed to earn a profit as a 501, though, are they?

BenIsForRon
02-01-2010, 11:55 PM
Damn, lots of Bruce Fein related news today. I wish he would run for office, but maybe he's more effective as an author.

pacelli
02-01-2010, 11:59 PM
lol

sucker!!!!

No doubt. The email was received today. Written by John Tate himself.. hah! Coincidence that it is their FIRST BOOK, and it is focused on a noninterventionist foreign policy?

I'm sure there is a vector being played somewhere. ;)

Matt Collins
02-02-2010, 12:03 AM
Oh man, Bruce Fein is great -- will definitely buy this book.

Damn, lots of Bruce Fein related news today. I wish he would run for office, but maybe he's more effective as an author.

Tom Woods and I were discussing about how good it would be to see Bruce back on the scene again. We were both impressed with his speech at the R4R. Glad this is happening! Now CFL just needs to bring Mike Church on board.


I'd love to have Bruce hired as Rand's and Ron's speech writer but neither one of them typically read a prepared speech :p

Knightskye
02-02-2010, 03:56 PM
I'd love to have Bruce hired as Rand's and Ron's speech writer but neither one of them typically read a prepared speech :p

Lmao, he could write Glenn Beck's keynote speech for CPAC. How funny would that be?

Cowlesy
02-02-2010, 03:58 PM
I guess the C4L isn't dropping non-interventionism afterall by backing the publishing of this book-whew!

revolutionary8
02-02-2010, 04:29 PM
lol

sucker!!!!


No doubt. The email was received today. Written by John Tate himself.. hah! Coincidence that it is their FIRST BOOK, and it is focused on a noninterventionist foreign policy?

I'm sure there is a vector being played somewhere. ;)

The CFL (Us) can't win for loosing w/ some people can we?

And here come the CFL conspiracy theorists accusing the CFL with "good timing"... lol

There were rumors floating around that the CFL had abandoned it's non-interventionist plank, and w/ the release of this book, all "rumors" were shut down.

And this is a problem....
Y'all bitch about them remaining silent about the ad for too long, then when rumors are crushed, they are accused of "good timing" and "vectoring" unbelieveable.

I can't believe people are bitter about the CFL backing Bruce Fein. It astonishes me.
You'd think that those attitudes would remain on the torch and burn the CFL threads, rather than coming on to a GOOD NEWS thread, and pissing on our wheaties.

Live_Free_Or_Die
02-02-2010, 04:38 PM
Promises of transparency are one of the exciting privileges of non-ownership.

I am surprised this commission is a surprise to CFL members. Don't you all know what your organization is up to?

AuH2O
02-02-2010, 04:52 PM
It's obviously a ploy. In response to the Colorado incident, C4L quickly commissioned Bruce Fein to write a book -- which he started AND COMPLETED over the weekend -- so they could clear up this PR problem. :rolleyes:

Matt Collins
02-02-2010, 04:55 PM
commissioned Bruce Fein to write a book -- which he started AND COMPLETED over the weekend -- Knowing the sheer intellect of Bruce Fein, I wouldn't be surprised :)

Knightskye
02-03-2010, 03:35 PM
Writing a whole book over a weekend is pretty impressive.

Unless it's just a collaboration of speeches.

ronpaulhawaii
02-03-2010, 03:42 PM
...
And here come the CFL conspiracy theorists accusing the CFL with "good timing"... lol
...

Do you realize you are using the same strategy of the neo-con hacks we deal with all the time?

The use of ad-hom/ridicule destroys credibility, please stop, you are making things worse.

Thanks

revolutionary8
02-03-2010, 05:19 PM
Do you realize you are using the same strategy of the neo-con hacks we deal with all the time?

The use of ad-hom/ridicule destroys credibility, please stop, you are making things worse.

Thanks

I see. I am making things worse. Perhaps I should join in the lynch mob calling this book a "PR Stunt", and join those who are admonishing the CFL. That would make things better, I suppose, rather than being supported of a non-interventionist book.

How is it an ad hom, when it is TRUE?? Paccelli said this book was some sort of "vectoring" and a PR Stunt,and Miss Doodahs called us all "suckers" w/ trpetzel in with the *wink*wink*- but that isn't an ad hom. Does calling people who are CFL members "suckers", make things better RPH?

What paccelli theorized is a CONSPIRACY THEORY, that has not been proven, in fact there is no evidence. one might also debate whether or not "conspiracy theorist" is a derogative term- I sure as heck don't think it is... This CT though, and that is what it is, has no basis in fact- we KNOW that Fein didn't pull this book out of his ass in the last few days, and grant publication rights to the CFL- it was no "conspiracy", nor a "PR Stunt". Yet, I am making things worse- stating the obvious---makes no sense to me.

So far, I have seen several arguments trying to blame John Tate (and others) of abandoning the plank of the CFL. I have seen no proof of that, and in fact, I have seen evidence of the contrary.

This book proves those people wrong. CFL has not abandoned the plank. Ron Paul has assured us, along w/ several others- Ronnie Paul, Benton, etc.

Also, one member tried to say that SHE was the reason that Debbie Hopper got the patriot act objective in to the mailers, back in December. That was proven wrong- I posted a mailer before that date where RP was speaking of the ills of meddlesome affairs, as well as a survey w/ the Patriot Act included.

There are PLENTY of torch and burn the CFL threads- too many to count! Just look at the newest threads recently started...
and I am making it worse...

I am considering quitting RPFs NOT the CFL now...unless of course I am banned for taking up for the CFL.

ronpaulhawaii
02-03-2010, 06:12 PM
I see. I am making things worse. Perhaps I should join in the lynch mob calling this book a "PR Stunt", and join those who are admonishing the CFL. That would make things better, I suppose, rather than being supported of a non-interventionist book.

How is it an ad hom, when it is TRUE?? Paccelli said this book was some sort of "vectoring" and a PR Stunt,and Miss Doodahs called us all "suckers" w/ trpetzel in with the *wink*wink*- but that isn't an ad hom. Does calling people who are CFL members "suckers", make things better RPH?

What paccelli theorized is a CONSPIRACY THEORY, that has not been proven, in fact there is no evidence. one might also debate whether or not "conspiracy theorist" is a derogative term- I sure as heck don't think it is... This CT though, and that is what it is, has no basis in fact- we KNOW that Fein didn't pull this book out of his ass in the last few days, and grant publication rights to the CFL- it was no "conspiracy", nor a "PR Stunt". Yet, I am making things worse- stating the obvious---makes no sense to me.

So far, I have seen several arguments trying to blame John Tate (and others) of abandoning the plank of the CFL. I have seen no proof of that, and in fact, I have seen evidence of the contrary.

This book proves those people wrong. CFL has not abandoned the plank. Ron Paul has assured us, along w/ several others- Ronnie Paul, Benton, etc.

Also, one member tried to say that SHE was the reason that Debbie Hopper got the patriot act objective in to the mailers, back in December. That was proven wrong- I posted a mailer before that date where RP was speaking of the ills of meddlesome affairs, as well as a survey w/ the Patriot Act included.

There are PLENTY of torch and burn the CFL threads- too many to count! Just look at the newest threads recently started...
and I am making it worse...

I am considering quitting RPFs NOT the CFL now...unless of course I am banned for taking up for the CFL.

You are either immensely naive or deliberately being disingenuous. Everyone and their mother knows that using the CT smear is a tried and true tactic of our enemies. The whole subject is another of your strawmen though. The issue at hand is you insulting and ridiculing members who are righteously outraged, and have lost a huge amount of trust in CfL-HQ.

The appearence of this tome proves nothing. Actions speak louder than words and Tate omitted the Plank at the 912 march, the mailers have dropped mention, and then this friggin (not an :rolleyes:) endorsement of someone whose website is clearly at odds with his answers to the survey.

Anyone here defending these apparent inconsistencies should be very respectful of the people CfL has hurt by their boneheaded mistakes. Instead we have people like you, fanning the flames

revolutionary8
02-03-2010, 09:49 PM
You are either immensely naive or deliberately being disingenuous. Everyone and their mother knows that using the CT smear is a tried and true tactic of our enemies. The whole subject is another of your strawmen though. The issue at hand is you insulting and ridiculing members who are righteously outraged, and have lost a huge amount of trust in CfL-HQ.

The appearence of this tome proves nothing. Actions speak louder than words and Tate omitted the Plank at the 912 march, the mailers have dropped mention, and then this friggin (not an :rolleyes:) endorsement of someone whose website is clearly at odds with his answers to the survey.

Anyone here defending these apparent inconsistencies should be very respectful of the people CfL has hurt by their boneheaded mistakes. Instead we have people like you, fanning the flames

rph,
you have earned my respect and admiration through your actions, not your words, and I have tried to show you my appreciation the best ways I can, as I do the same for others active in the Liberty Movement. I wish to God we didn't disagree over this.

I will say that I am not naieve a sucker, (I have been accused many times over of being a "purist" and by PACELLI!) and I am CERTAINLY NOT DISENGENUOUS. In defense of myself--I would have never donated toward your causes if I were disingenuous about what you (and others) in the CFL are doing or feeling...

I'll cease stating my POV per your request, but I must first defend myself regarding your allegations of disingenuity.

ronpaulhawaii
02-04-2010, 01:40 AM
rph,
you have earned my respect and admiration through your actions, not your words, and I have tried to show you my appreciation the best ways I can, as I do the same for others active in the Liberty Movement. I wish to God we didn't disagree over this.

I will say that I am not naieve a sucker, (I have been accused many times over of being a "purist" and by PACELLI!) and I am CERTAINLY NOT DISENGENUOUS. In defense of myself--I would have never donated toward your causes if I were disingenuous about what you (and others) in the CFL are doing or feeling...

I'll cease stating my POV per your request, but I must first defend myself regarding your allegations of disingenuity.

First, I admire your sincere earnstness in defense of a valuable institution. What I am primarily objecting to is tone. You with your "lol" at the "conspiracy theorists", Debbie with her cute little respelling of newbitech's nym, others over the last few days... I mean really, have some class. Like the situation ain't hot enough without barbs from the guilty party. This mistake upset a HUGE amount of people, who are my friends... I ain't standing for it. This was CfL's mistake alone, start acting like it.

That said, I apologize for my aggravated tone.

About the topic: The thing is, we don't disagree over this. I don't think that CfL has completely abandoned the pillar. In fact, I think very few people believe that. What I have realized is that they have drifted from it in their advertisements/messaging. I still haven't fully digested that yet, but my instincts tell me it is a mistake. We grew by setting ourselves apart and sticking to principles. Like BJ said in the docum3ntary, "What is this guy doing up on stage with all these other republicans?"

One of the most relevant comments I saw in this whole mess was the guy who said, "If I had seen that commercial and looked up Buck, I would have dismissed CfL as a [neo-con] front group"

revolutionary8
02-04-2010, 03:34 AM
nm.

revolutionary8
02-04-2010, 04:31 AM
nm,

revolutionary8
02-04-2010, 04:34 AM
ugh

Petar
02-04-2010, 05:45 AM
I'm sorry, this is ridiculous...

CFL releases good news, anti-CFL fanatics make senseless rude comments and come up with an equally senseless suggestion of a conspiracy theory, and the guy who makes light of the idiocy is the problem?

Gimme me a break, there are people who are here simply to destroy the CFL, and this righteous indignation shtick is getting very old very fast.

No one is going to be amused by this melodrama very much longer, so you might as well just can it.

LibertyEagle
02-04-2010, 05:53 AM
Michael,

If the way Debbie was treated while she was over here yesterday answering questions is considered "class", I think we all have a much bigger problem than any stupid ad.

ronpaulhawaii
02-04-2010, 09:54 AM
I'm sorry, this is ridiculous...

CFL releases good news, anti-CFL fanatics make senseless rude comments and come up with an equally senseless suggestion of a conspiracy theory, and the guy who makes light of the idiocy is the problem?

Gimme me a break, there are people who are here simply to destroy the CFL, and this righteous indignation shtick is getting very old very fast.

No one is going to be amused by this melodrama very much longer, so you might as well just can it.

The amount of people who may be here to "destroy" CfL is such a minority it is not worth mentioning. Especially if such mention is to try to deflect valid criticism.

The only people who have been amused by CfL's boneheaded mistake is our common enemies. Nystrom was traumatized, I've been thrown off my game at a critical time, thousands have been disillusioned. The gall of the CfL apologists continues to amaze me.

Please face the facts.

1 - CFl made a boneheaded move that stirred up a hornets nest
2 - CfL's response to the drama they have created was poor and insulting
3 - Due to the great disillusionment. CfL is now under a microscope
4 - This is CfL's fault alone.


Michael,

If the way Debbie was treated while she was over here yesterday answering questions is considered "class", I think we all have a much bigger problem than any stupid ad.

From what I saw, Debbie came out swinging. Besides, there is a huge difference in expectations of behavior from individuals who have been hurt by an institution, and apologists/representatives of the guilty party.

If a mob righteously descends on DC with pitchforks, is the correct response of the politician to focus on the few nutcases in the crowd and talk to everyone like they are nuts?

Or is it to respectfully talk to the (vast majority) with valid concerns and ignore the fringe?

pacelli
02-04-2010, 10:18 AM
Paccelli said this book was some sort of "vectoring" and a PR Stunt


Nowhere in my post did I say that the book was a PR stunt.

My opinion is that the book itself is probably excellent, based on the segment of the first chapter that is currently available on the C4L website.

Since I apparently failed to appropriately communicate my opinions & beliefs about the TIMING OF THE ANNOUNCEMENT, I will state it succinctly: I believe that the C4L announced the release of this book in the midst of the Ken Buck controversy as an indirect way of saying, "Don't over-react to the Ken Buck ad, we're still focused on a non-interventionist foreign policy". Would you disagree with that? I don't believe my opinion is an assertion of a group of people working together to commit a crime (i.e. a conspiracy). Ron Paul himself said that the C4L is a political organization. Are they wrong for playing politics, or am I just wrong for pointing out a specific instance of the C4L playing politics?

Furthermore, nowhere did I suggest that Bruce Fein wrote the book in a weekend, as a PR stunt. While I'm sure Bruce Fein is capable of writing a book in a weekend, it amazes me the degree to which an elaborate game of "telephone" can occur when people neglect to read what is right in front of them. These kinds of accusations are a chain of assumptions made without facts, witnesses, or evidence.

While my comment on vectoring was an attempt at 'conspiratorial levity', as evidenced by the ";)" symbol, we now have self-proclaimed "social engineers" commenting on the issue at hand.

In an attempt to refuse to feed into the growing 'us v them' sentiment that currently exists on this forum, I will not respond to further inquiries regarding my previous post, nor my current post.

LibertyEagle
02-04-2010, 10:27 AM
From what I saw, Debbie came out swinging. Besides, there is a huge difference in expectations of behavior from individuals who have been hurt by an institution, and apologists/representatives of the guilty party.
She did expose LLS for what she had done, yes, and she did so without personal insults. It needed to be done. Hell, Michael, how would you like it if someone had drug your name through the mud, without doing one iota of fact-checking and who didn't seem interested in doing any now, either? Seriously. She also seemed to spend a good deal of time here yesterday, answering misconceptions and innuendos, that had been spread around here by a couple of individuals.


If a mob righteously descends on DC with pitchforks, is the correct response of the politician to focus on the few nutcases in the crowd and talk to everyone like they are nuts?
Of course not. If she saw us as nuts, I doubt she would have spent so much time here yesterday.


Or is it to respectfully talk to the (vast majority) with valid concerns and ignore the fringe?
They should talk to everyone, in my opinion. And Michael, from what I have seen, I think they are trying. John Tate, Jesse Benton, Ronnie Paul and even Ron Paul himself. How can you say they are not trying? We still have some questions that need answering. Yes. I know Farmer is compiling a list that she is going to send to them, or post on their site.

Do we really need to be this hostile at this point? I mean, they aren't our enemies. And finally, if we want respect from people, we should also treat them with respect too.

angelatc
02-04-2010, 10:33 AM
Very cool.

CFL isn't allowed to earn a profit as a 501, though, are they?

Non-profit doesn't mean they can't earn a profit. It basically means that earning a profit can't be their primary reason for existing, and that the coporation can't distribute the profit in the form of a dividend.

ronpaulhawaii
02-04-2010, 11:04 AM
She did expose LLS for what she had done, yes, and she did so without personal insults. It needed to be done. Hell, Michael, how would you like it if someone had drug your name through the mud, without doing one iota of fact-checking and who didn't seem interested in doing any now, either? Seriously. She also seemed to spend a good deal of time here yesterday, answering misconceptions and innuendos, that had been spread around here by a couple of individuals.

IMO a CfL rep should have been assigned to every community in the r3VOLution and that these festering wounds should have been addressed long ago. Because they have let them fester for so long, it is to be expected to be messy as the pus drains.


Of course not. If she saw us as nuts, I doubt she would have spent so much time here yesterday.


That is not answering the hypothetical question I asked. Truth is that everything I have heard from CfL has been trying to deflect criticism, onto the entire membership, using a few un-diplomatic people on the internet...

When people makes a mistake that hurts those who trusted them, the correct tone is contriteness... I've yet to see that.


They should talk to everyone, in my opinion. And Michael, from what I have seen, I think they are trying. John Tate, Jesse Benton, Ronnie Paul and even Ron Paul himself. How can you say they are not trying? We still have some questions that need answering. Yes. I know Farmer is compiling a list that she is going to send to them, or post on their site.

All I have seen is damage control. That is understandable, being insulting with such damage control is unacceptable.


Do we really need to be this hostile at this point? I mean, they aren't our enemies. And finally, if we want respect from people, we should also treat them with respect too.

As long as I see people being disrespectful to people they have hurt, I will continue to call them out

LibertyEagle
02-04-2010, 11:15 AM
IMO a CfL rep should have been assigned to every community in the r3VOLution and that these festering wounds should have been addressed long ago. Because they have let them fester for so long, it is to be expected to be messy as the pus drains.
A C4L rep IS in every community. That is largely what the C4L IS. They're called precinct leaders, county coordinators, etc.

Yes, I realize there are a lot of unhealed wounds left over from the campaign. I also doubt if many questions and things we all were pissed off about, can be answered by anyone other than Ron Paul.


That is not answering the hypothetical question I asked. Truth is that everything I have heard from CfL has been trying to deflect criticism, onto the entire membership, using a few un-diplomatic people on the internet...
It seems like you are implying that if anyone does not agree with the lynch mob persona that has been going on around here, that they somehow are C4L agents, or something. That is so beyond weird, I don't even know what else to say. Cowlesy is not a part of the lynch mob. Is he an agent too?


When people makes a mistake that hurts those who trusted them, the correct tone is contriteness... I've yet to see that.
I thought Tate's response sucked too. But, it seems to me, that we got that apology somewhere from the other 3 that also gave statements. Geez, Michael, do we need a public lynching, in order to move on? They accepted guilt, and rightly so. They said they would put in checks and balances so that it would not happen again. I am convinced that their intentions were good in this whole deal. I did NOT think that in the beginning, as I also was mad as hell. But, as more and more information has come out, I am no longer concerned about the ad deal.



All I have seen is damage control. That is understandable, being insulting with such damage control is unacceptable.
Sadly enough, the insulting that I have seen, has been coming from the grassroots.


As long as I see people being disrespectful to people they have hurt, I will continue to call them out
If you think that post of yours to Debbie was justified, well then, Michael, I really have nothing else to say. Because we are not on the same wavelength on this issue at all, apparently. I still 3> you though.

LittleLightShining
02-04-2010, 11:19 AM
nvm

Danke
02-04-2010, 11:29 AM
Tom Woods and I were discussing about how good it would be to see Bruce back on the scene again. We were both impressed with his speech at the R4R.

You wouldn't happen to have a picture of you standing next to Bruce Fein that you could share with us, would you?

ronpaulhawaii
02-04-2010, 11:42 AM
A C4L rep IS in every community. That is largely what the C4L IS. They're called precinct leaders, county coordinators, etc.

This is a strawman. I said, every community in the r3VOLution, meaning online...


Yes, I realize there are a lot of unhealed wounds left over from the campaign. I also doubt if many questions and things we all were pissed off about, can be answered by anyone other than Ron Paul.

I disagree and think this has little to do with RP.


It seems like you are implying that if anyone does not agree with the lynch mob persona that has been going on around here, that they somehow are C4L agents, or something. That is so beyond weird, I don't even know what else to say. Cowlesy is not a part of the lynch mob. Is he an agent too?

You seem to imply that I am part of the "lynch mob", not only is this lamely using ad-hom, but if you look closely at every one of my posts you will see the error of such an assertion. The only thing I have done is stopped defending CfL.


I thought Tate's response sucked too. But, it seems to me, that we got that apology somewhere from the other 3 that also gave statements. Geez, Michael, do we need a public lynching, in order to move on? They accepted guilt, and rightly so. They said they would put in checks and balances so that it would not happen again. I am convinced that their intentions were good in this whole deal. I did NOT think that in the beginning, as I also was mad as hell. But, as more and more information has come out, I am no longer concerned about the ad deal.

They've said other things over the years that have turned out to be untrue. Why should I trust them now? Especially considering the trust I gave them bit me in the ass.


Sadly enough, the insulting that I have seen, has been coming from the grassroots.

GMAB, the outrage was justfied, the delayed response built the anger, the original response made the situation worse.

Are you really going to sit here and act like CfL wasn't being insulting? Debbie's deliberate and denigrating misspelling of newbitechs name was childish and provocative. As a rep for an institution asking for our support, she should have had more class.


]If you think that post of yours to Debbie was justified, well then, Michael, I really have nothing else to say. Because we are not on the same wavelength on this issue at all, apparently. I still 3> you though.

Yes, we are probably not on the same wavelength, as you were probably not hurt, as I have been, by the outrage that clogged my means of communications for a week while I have other things I need to be doing.

Walking a tightrope sucks sometimes

:mad:

LibertyEagle
02-04-2010, 11:43 AM
You wouldn't happen to have a picture of you standing next to Bruce Fein that you could share with us, would you?

:D

Matt Collins
02-04-2010, 11:51 AM
You wouldn't happen to have a picture of you standing next to Bruce Fein that you could share with us, would you?

I WISH I did. But sadly I don't yet. However if I had the money to go to CPAC I would get one. :(

But rest assured, as soon as I get to meet Bruce again and snap a pic, I'll share it with you :p





.

LibertyEagle
02-04-2010, 12:00 PM
This is a strawman. I said, every community in the r3VOLution, meaning online...
It's not a strawman. It's called a misunderstanding.

Well, then let's ask for an online person then. I thought part of Allison's job was to fill that role, though.


I disagree and think this has little to do with RP.
What we think doesn't really matter; what matters is the reality of the situation.


You seem to imply that I am part of the "lynch mob", not only is this lamely using ad-hom, but if you look closely at every one of my posts you will see the error of such an assertion. The only thing I have done is stopped defending CfL.
If you're not, I apologize. It appeared that you were pretty much in the same attack mode. I do think you were quite rude to Debbie, however.


They've said other things over the years that have turned out to be untrue. Why should I trust them now? Especially considering the trust I gave them bit me in the ass.
"Bit you in the ass"? You feel personally responsible for telling people to give them a chance and then somehow feel like you have egg on your face after this ad incident? Why? You didn't do it; they did. And after it's all said and done, it's not nearly as big a deal as we initially thought it was. At least, in my opinion. If people do not want to participate with them, then they shouldn't. There are plenty of other things to do.


GMAB, the outrage was justfied, the delayed response built the anger, the original response made the situation worse.
She offered to talk to you on the phone. How is that heinous? Please explain.


Are you really going to sit here and act like CfL wasn't being insulting?
If you're talking about overall, then, yes, I HATED Tates' response. It sucked and it came off as condescending. But, beyond that, no, I do not think they have been insulting. It wasn't too long after the incident that Allison came over here to answer what she could, in chat. Four C4L folks responded to our outrage and I honestly believe they tried their best to answer our questions.


Debbie's deliberate and denigrating misspelling of newbitechs name was childish and provocative. As a rep for an institution asking for our support, she should have had more class.
I already responded to this someplace else, but, no, I do not think she intended anything with calling newbitech, "newbi". As in "newbi" "tech". They apparently know each other, Michael. If I thought she was being intentionally insulting to him, then yes, I wouldn't like that either. But, I do not think that is what was going on. Not at all.


Yes, we are probably not on the same wavelength, as you were probably not hurt, as I have been, by the outrage that clogged my means of communications for a week while I have other things I need to be doing.
That's right, Michael, you are the only one who cares about the liberty movement. :rolleyes: Come on now.

I have no idea what you're talking about with regard to clogging your means of communications, as I thought you were busy campaigning for Adam.


Walking a tightrope sucks sometimes

:mad:
How we respond to this is each of our choices, but like my Daddy always said...

Ultimately, we have to get glad in the same pants we got mad in.

ronpaulhawaii
02-04-2010, 12:30 PM
It's not a strawman. It's called a misunderstanding.

Well, then let's ask for an online person then. I thought part of Allison's job was to fill that role, though.

Fair enough. In case anyone is still unsure, pissing me off to this point is a bad idea. People that put me in a bad position, and abuse my trust, can expect ruthlessness in response to insult.


If you're not, I apologize. It appeared that you were pretty much in the same attack mode.

This indicates that you are looking at these things from a biased POV. Here is part of comment I posted on DP regarding the Benton Interview


My comment on the CfL blog, that ended up here and then into the blogosphere, was crafted to vent collective steam. It was very effective at that, as the the overwhelming amount of thank you notes/chats/calls received attests. Things were blowing up and I was actually doing CfL a favor. Since their mistake forced me into the position, I used the opportunity to "beat them up" over the organizational bait and switch.

At least that is settled

Onward and forward





"Bit you in the ass"? You feel personally responsible for telling people to give them a chance and then somehow feel like you have egg on your face after this ad incident? Why? You didn't do it; they did. And after it's all said and done, it's not nearly as big a deal as we initially thought it was. At least, in my opinion. If people do not want to participate with them, then they shouldn't. There are plenty of other things to do.

No, I am pissed off at 500 backed up emails in my primary account, 50 in my FB account, phone calls going to the Kokesh Campaign phone because the inbox on my phone is filled. And that is not even counting the calls I got a chance to answer. I have gotten these call from everywhere, including from some names Matt would drool over. I am still getting them...

Meanwhile, Kokesh had a moneybomb that I never got a chance to hit my list over, slim-jims to create, events to go to, CPAC to plan, etc. et friggin cetera

(grrrr....)


She offered to talk to you on the phone. How is that heinous? Please explain.


Heineous:confused: WTH:confused:


If you're talking about overall, then, yes, I HATED Tates' response. It sucked and it came off as condescending. But, beyond that, no, I do not think they have been insulting. It wasn't too long after the incident that Allison came over here to answer what she could, in chat. Four C4L folks responded to our outrage and I honestly believe they tried their best to answer our questions.


I have yet to see un-equivocated contriteness for a colossal blunder that was all on their shoulders.


I already responded to this someplace else, but, no, I do not think she intended anything with calling newbitech, "newbi". As in "newbi" "tech". They apparently know each other, Michael. If I thought she was being intentionally insulting to him, then yes, I wouldn't like that either. But, I do not think that is what was going on. Not at all.

I ain't buying it. It looked intentional to me. IIRC correctly, she spelled it "Newbie"


That's right, Michael, you are the only one who cares about the liberty movement. :rolleyes: Come on now.

I have no idea what you're talking about with regard to clogging your means of communications, as I thought you were busy campaigning for Adam.

I was, until this colossal blunder that clogged my means of communication. And back the $%^^& off with your rolling of eyes.

LibertyEagle
02-04-2010, 12:39 PM
I'm sorry, I forgot the proper response was to bow in your presence.

I have supported your rides too. But, you are no more or less important than anyone else. You want to be mad and you are. Go for it.

ronpaulhawaii
02-04-2010, 12:44 PM
I'm sorry, I forgot the proper response was to bow in your presence.

I have supported your rides too. But, you are no more or less important than anyone else. And each one of us is responsible and accountable for our own behavior.

What are you talking about? What about the avalanche I have been buried under do you not understand?

What you seem to be saying is that my mistake was ever defending or promoting CfL. You're right, my mistake, wont make that again, especially since I am now being insulted by you

tpreitzel
02-04-2010, 12:47 PM
I'm sorry, I forgot the proper response was to bow in your presence.

I have supported your rides too. But, you are no more or less important than anyone else. And each one of us is responsible and accountable for our own behavior.

Oh, please. Stop! RPH is absolutely 100% correct about the waste of time and embarassment that C4L's action and response has caused EVERYONE associated directly or indirectly with the organization.

LibertyEagle
02-04-2010, 01:01 PM
What are you talking about? What about the avalanche I have been buried under do you not understand?

What you seem to be saying is that my mistake was ever defending or promoting CfL. Your right, my mistake, wont make that again, especially since I am now being insulted by you

Well, I do want to publicly apologize to you Michael for the crack I made in my last post.

Yes, I do understand that you are buried. But, whether or not you defend or promote C4L is your own business. i could care less. It's going to take all kinds of endeavors to win back our republic. We certainly cannot count on just one organization, regardless of what it is.

Petar
02-04-2010, 07:58 PM
The amount of people who may be here to "destroy" CfL is such a minority it is not worth mentioning. Especially if such mention is to try to deflect valid criticism.

The only people who have been amused by CfL's boneheaded mistake is our common enemies. Nystrom was traumatized, I've been thrown off my game at a critical time, thousands have been disillusioned. The gall of the CfL apologists continues to amaze me.

Please face the facts.

1 - CFl made a boneheaded move that stirred up a hornets nest
2 - CfL's response to the drama they have created was poor and insulting
3 - Due to the great disillusionment. CfL is now under a microscope
4 - This is CfL's fault alone.


This board is probably loaded with people whose sole purpose is to turn this place into a total bedlam.

But, since none of us can prove how many of those types of people might be here exactly, we can only really comment on the behavior that is observable.

There are a lot of people here who only want to focus on the negativity surrounding this event, and refuse to see the overwhelming positivity that the CFL represents.

"Thrown off of your game"?

I'm sorry if maybe you lost balance and fell off of your bicycle, but maybe you should try exercising a bit more control over your emotions next time.

Everyone who cares about this movement was upset by this, but that is no excuse to just continuously fly off the handle.

For whose benefit do you think this display serves?

Non one with any sense at all is going to appreciate this much longer.

ronpaulhawaii
02-04-2010, 08:15 PM
"Thrown off of your game"?

I'm sorry if maybe you lost balance and fell off of your bicycle, but maybe you should try exercising a bit more control over your emotions next time.


This highlights my point, rather than make a respectful comment, you need to throw an unwarrented jab in based on an erroneous assumption.

I was "thrown off my game" by an avalance of concern that I had no control over (other than turning off my phone, the Kokesh for Congress phone, my computer, basically turning my back on a lot of friends...)

It had little, to nothing, to do with emotions...

Petar
02-04-2010, 08:28 PM
This highlights my point, rather than make a respectful comment, you need to throw an unwarrented jab in based on an erroneous assumption.

I was "thrown off my game" by an avalance of concern that I had no control over (other than turning off my phone, the Kokesh for Congress phone, my computer, basically turning my back on a lot of friends...)

It had little, to nothing, to do with emotions...

Well, in fairness, it's not like you were very specific about how exactly you were "thrown off your game".

I still think you were/are flying off of the handle over this, even if you did have to deal with a deluge of messages.

I think you need to learn how to stay calm and maintain a tempered and rational response to things like this in the future.

ronpaulhawaii
02-04-2010, 08:37 PM
Well, in fairness, it's not like you were very specific about how exactly you were "thrown off your game".

I still think you were/are flying off of the handle over this, even if you did have to deal with a deluge of messages.

I think you need to learn how to stay calm and maintain a tempered and rational response to things like this in the future.

While I don't expect you to have seen everything I have, and know you haven't heard all that I have, please just take my words for it that I have explained this repeatedly both here and at DP. In fact, if one were to carefully reconstruct the timeline and content of my posting on this subject, they will see a much different picture than one I may be being looked down on for.

Damn the torpedoes, FULL SPEED AHEAD

Meatwasp
02-04-2010, 08:45 PM
Good for Bruce Fein.

tpreitzel
02-04-2010, 09:20 PM
Well, in fairness, it's not like you were very specific about how exactly you were "thrown off your game".

Wrong. RPH has been VERY specific of the manner in which he was "thrown off his game". For various reasons, certain members have been ignoring or overlooking them.



I still think you were/are flying off of the handle over this, even if you did have to deal with a deluge of messages.
Maybe, you should spend a bit more time educating yourself on the facts before typing another word. ;) Try searching followed by THOROUGH reading.



I think you need to learn how to stay calm and maintain a tempered and rational response to things like this in the future.
As a witness to many of these events in real-time, I'd retract this latter statement if I were you. What "things"? No, please don't answer as my question is purely rhetorical. Maybe, you're simply ignorant of the real "things" that might have agitated RPH, correct? ;)

RPH doesn't need me to defend him, but you'd be wise to stop your current course of interrogation.

Petar
02-04-2010, 10:56 PM
While I don't expect you to have seen everything I have, and know you haven't heard all that I have, please just take my words for it that I have explained this repeatedly both here and at DP. In fact, if one were to carefully reconstruct the timeline and content of my posting on this subject, they will see a much different picture than one I may be being looked down on for.

Damn the torpedoes, FULL SPEED AHEAD

I don't doubt that your posts are full of complaints about a deluge of messages, I simply don't believe that your absolute hostility towards the C4L has at all been justified.


Wrong. RPH has been VERY specific of the manner in which he was "thrown off his game". For various reasons, certain members have been ignoring or overlooking them.


Maybe, you should spend a bit more time educating yourself on the facts before typing another word. ;) Try searching followed by THOROUGH reading.


As a witness to many of these events in real-time, I'd retract this latter statement if I were you. What "things"? No, please don't answer as my question is purely rhetorical. Maybe, you're simply ignorant of the real "things" that might have agitated RPH, correct? ;)

RPH doesn't need me to defend him, but you'd be wise to stop your current course of interrogation.

RPH was not specific about how he was "thrown off of his game" in the post that I was responding to.

And just because I did not happen to notice him complaining about a deluge of messages in previous posts, does not mean that I did not see him consistently flying off of the handle towards the C4L.

So what if he was also complaining about a deluge of messages, does that make his behavior any less irrational?

The thing that RPH needs to learn how to handle in a tempered and rational manner is his response to future big mistakes, or future possible big mistakes, of the C4L, or of people associated with it.

tpreitzel
02-04-2010, 11:17 PM
I don't doubt that your posts are full of complaints about a deluge of messages, I simply don't believe that your absolute hostility towards the C4L has at all been justified.

Why you're searching for RPH's posts on this latest fiasco with the C4L, maybe you should search for mine as well. ;) As RPH will stand by his remarks, so I stand by mine ... ALL OF THEM. Furthermore, I'm sure my remarks will continue to withstand the test of time regardless of your assertions otherwise.



RPH was not specific about how he was "thrown off of his game" in the post that I was responding to.

And just because I did not happen to notice him complaining about a deluge of messages in previous posts, does not mean that I did not see him consistently flying off of the handle towards the C4L.

The thing that RPH needs to learn how to handle in a tempered and rational manner is his response to future big mistakes, or future possible big mistakes, of the C4L, or of people associated with it.What part of "try searching and reading THOROUGHLY" do you fail to comprehend? I'll even reiterate RPH's request that you try reading his remarks in chronological order before looking more ridiculous than you already do. Again, again, and again, maybe you don't have all the facts behind your biased perception of RPH "flying off the handle", eh? I'm sure if you repeat "flying off the handle" enough, some readers might eventually confuse emotion with "flying off the handle". Frankly, your irrational misrepresentation of emotion as "flying off the handle" speaks more unfavorably of you than RPH. * At various points, I was watching the posts flying back and forth with concomitant editing so the current record is only a partial view of the events as they transpired in real-time. ;)

Actually, you're the one being irrational and petulant in your stubbornly ignorant, incessant needling. ;)



So what if he was also complaining about a deluge of messages, does that make his behavior any less irrational?So what? Your apparent LACK of emotion and callous indifference to the embarrassment and waste of time caused by C4L's blunder raises a BIG RED FLAG.

* "does not mean that I did not see him consistently flying off of the handle towards the C4L" ... Based on your remark, your allegiance to the C4L apparently trumps constitutional liberty as most of us are fairly sure of RPH's stance on constitutional liberty; hence, your misrepresentation of emotion as "flying off the handle" in this case. Nice ploy.

ronpaulhawaii
02-04-2010, 11:27 PM
I don't doubt that your posts are full of complaints about a deluge of messages, I simply don't believe that your absolute hostility towards the C4L has at all been justified.

What "absolute hostility"?


RPH was not specific about how he was "thrown off of his game" in the post that I was responding to.

Ah yes, so I'm expected to cite my entire post history on contentious issues to avoid your chastisment, lovely...


And just because I did not happen to notice him complaining about a deluge of messages in previous posts, does not mean that I did not see him consistently flying off of the handle towards the C4L.

Hmmm... that seems a bit hard to imagine, since it has been mentioned since the first days when I was asking for patience. I bet it has been mentioned in every thread I have posted in on this subject.


So what if he was also complaining about a deluge of messages, does that make his behavior any less irrational?

You should really do a lot more research before accusing people of things.


The thing that RPH needs to learn how to handle in a tempered and rational manner is his response to future big mistakes, or future possible big mistakes, of the C4L, or of people associated with it.

You can't please everyone :rolleyes:

Petar
02-05-2010, 03:50 AM
Why you're searching for RPH's posts on this latest fiasco with the C4L, maybe you should search for mine as well. ;) As RPH will stand by his remarks, so I stand by mine ... ALL OF THEM. Furthermore, I'm sure my remarks will continue to withstand the test of time regardless of your assertions otherwise.

What part of "try searching and reading THOROUGHLY" do you fail to comprehend? I'll even reiterate RPH's request that you try reading his remarks in chronological order before looking more ridiculous than you already do. Again, again, and again, maybe you don't have all the facts behind your biased perception of RPH "flying off the handle", eh? I'm sure if you repeat "flying off the handle" enough, some readers might eventually confuse emotion with "flying off the handle". Frankly, your irrational misrepresentation of emotion as "flying off the handle" speaks more unfavorably of you than RPH. * At various points, I was watching the posts flying back and forth with concomitant editing so the current record is only a partial view of the events as they transpired in real-time. ;)

Actually, you're the one being irrational and petulant in your stubbornly ignorant, incessant needling. ;)

So what? Your apparent LACK of emotion and callous indifference to the embarrassment and waste of time caused by C4L's blunder raises a BIG RED FLAG.

* "does not mean that I did not see him consistently flying off of the handle towards the C4L" ... Based on your remark, your allegiance to the C4L apparently trumps constitutional liberty as most of us are fairly sure of RPH's stance on constitutional liberty; hence, your misrepresentation of emotion as "flying off the handle" in this case. Nice ploy.

I'm not going to comb through all of RPH's posts, and I'm not going to comb through yours either.

All I am saying is that it has been ridiculous for him to maintain this totally hostile attitude, even if he had to deal with a lot of messages in the last few days.

I am not emotionless, I was upset about this too.

The only difference is that I have chosen to not succumb to this utter negativity surrounding the matter, and I am able to put the whole thing into a rational perspective, and see the overwhelming positivity that the C4L still represents.

We need to have cooler heads around here, especially if we are mods.


What "absolute hostility"?

Ah yes, so I'm expected to cite my entire post history on contentious issues to avoid your chastisment, lovely...

Hmmm... that seems a bit hard to imagine, since it has been mentioned since the first days when I was asking for patience. I bet it has been mentioned in every thread I have posted in on this subject.

You should really do a lot more research before accusing people of things.

You can't please everyone :rolleyes:

Your attitude towards the C4L has and continues to be utterly hostile.

I don't expect you to cite your entire post history, but if you are going to tell me that you were "thrown off of your game", don't turn around and blame me for not knowing exactly how those words are supposed to relate to every single thing that you have said on this entire forum lately.

Like I said, I'm not about to comb through all of your posts, but your utter hostility towards the C4L has been really ridiculous, and even if you have had to deal with a lot of messages the last few days, that is no excuse.

Your job here as a moderator is to preserve civil discussion on this forum, in order to support our objectives as a political movement.

Rallying a premature lynch mob is the complete opposite of what your focus here needs to be.

tpreitzel
02-05-2010, 04:40 AM
I'm not going to comb through all of RPH's posts, and I'm not going to comb through yours either.

All I am saying is that it has been ridiculous for him to maintain this totally hostile attitude, even if he had to deal with a lot of messages in the last few days.

Of course you're not going to examine the posts, because you'd rather make totally inappropriate remarks before appropriately researching the issue. In the meantime, your totally inappropriate remarks likely worsen the situation. Is the latter likelihood your motive? ;)



I am not emotionless, I was upset about this too.Your own words contradict you. "So what?" * .... Remember? Yes, sir eeee, your response certainly sounds emotionally considerate of RPH's predicament and numerous other people. ;)



The only difference is that I have chosen to not succumb to this utter negativity surrounding the matter, and I am able to put the whole thing into a rational perspective, and see the overwhelming positivity that the C4L still represents.

We need to have cooler heads around here, especially if we are mods.No, you continue inappropriately slamming RPH for expressing legitimate concerns about the C4L's incomplete vetting of Buck by implying he consistently "flew off the handle". Apparently, in your mind, anyone who raises a legitimate concern about the C4L's foolish mistake is NOW succumbing to utter negativity. Whatever happened to "flying off the handle"? :)



Your attitude towards the C4L has and continues to be utterly hostile.LOL! Personally, your inappropriate misrepresentation of RPH's remarks suggests that you need to buy a mirror and gaze into it for awhile. From your warped perspective, his continued insistence that the C4L answer some legitimate questions surrounding this fiasco will likely soon have him wrongly branded as being utterly, utterly, utterly hostile or worse. :)



Rallying a premature lynch mob is the complete opposite of what your focus here needs to be.Now, RPH is guility of rallying a premature lynch mob. Choice ... ;)

Until the next round. ;)

* "does not mean that I did not see him consistently flying off of the handle towards the C4L" ... Based on your remark, your allegiance to the C4L apparently trumps constitutional liberty as most of us are fairly sure of RPH's stance on constitutional liberty; hence, your misrepresentation of emotion as "flying off the handle" in this case. Nice ploy.

Petar
02-05-2010, 05:03 AM
Of course you're not, because you'd rather make totally inappropriate remarks before appropriately researching the issue.

Your own words contradict you. "So what?" * .... Remember? Yes, sir eeee, your response certainly sounds emotionally considerate of RPH's predicament and numerous other people. ;)

No, you continue inappropriately slamming RPH for expressing legitimate concerns about the C4L's incomplete vetting of Buck by implying he consistently "flew off the handle". Apparently, in your mind, anyone who raises a legitimate concern about the C4L's foolish mistake is NOW succumbing to utter negativity. Whatever happened to "flying off the handle"? :)

LOL! Personally, you need to buy a mirror and gaze into it for awhile. :)

Now, RPH is guility of rallying a premature lynch mob. Choice ... ;)

Until the next round. ;)

* "does not mean that I did not see him consistently flying off of the handle towards the C4L" ... Based on your remark, your allegiance to the C4L apparently trumps constitutional liberty as most of us are fairly sure of RPH's stance on constitutional liberty; hence, your misrepresentation of emotion as "flying off the handle" in this case. Nice ploy.

You know as well as I do that there was actual context to my "so what" statement, to paraphrase:

"So what if RPH had to deal with a bunch of messages over last few days, he didn't need to fly off the handle, and he doesn't need to keep doing it either".

Raising concerns is one thing, but utter over the top hostility is another.

I'm not being over the top hostile against RPH or anyone else.

I'm simply informing him that he shouldn't be rallying premature lynch mobs here, or even expired ones for that matter.

Also, having an uncompromising support of Constitutional government hardy gives anyone the right to devote their energy towards tearing down what is by far the best tool that we have to actually restore Constitutional government.

tpreitzel
02-05-2010, 05:34 AM
You know as well as I do that there was actual context to my "so what" statement, to paraphrase:

"So what if RPH had to deal with a bunch of messages over last few days, he didn't need to fly off the handle, and he doesn't need to keep doing it either".

The context is obvious and your "clarification" only reinforces your indifference to the fallout from the C4L's blunder. Apparently, you're so damn callous about the C4L's wasting of people's time that you continue your childish and inappropriate slamming of ANYONE who continues to question the C4L's actions. Again, your repetition and misrepresentation of RPH as "flying off the handle" only exposes your nefarious agenda of attacking anyone who legitimately questions the C4L's mistake.



Raising concerns is one thing, but utter over the top hostility is another.Whatever happened to "utter hostility" and "utter negativity"? Now, you falsely accuse RPH of "utter over the top" hostility. We're all waiting for the next inappropriate invective from you, Petar. ;)



I'm not being over the top hostile against RPH or anyone else.Let the readers keep score. RPH's been falsely accused by YOU of "flying off the handle", exhibiting "utter hostility" and "utter negativity", and now "utter over the top" hostility. Furthermore, you've falsely accused RPH of rallying "premature lynch mobs" and now "expired ones" as well.



I'm simply informing him that he shouldn't be rallying premature lynch mobs here, or even expired ones, for that matter.LOL! Formerly, RPH was falsely accused of "rallying a premature lynch mob". Now, we have you falsely accusing RPH of "rallying expired ones" (lynch mobs). Double Choice! ;)



Also, having an uncompromising support of Constitutional government hardy gives anyone the right to devote their energy towards tearing down what is the best tool that we have to actually restore Constitutional government.Silence in the face of silence only allows the problem to fester. In order to silence the outstanding questions, the C4L needs to directly and accurately respond to the legitimate questions still lingering due to their silence. Mere promises are not enough.

Wow! Only two NEW false slurs against RPH, Petar? "Utter over the top hostility" and rallying "expired ones (lynch mobs) "? ... Triple Choice!

Petar
02-05-2010, 06:22 AM
The context is obvious and your "clarification" only reinforces your indifference to the fallout from the C4L's blunder. Apparently, you're so damn callous about the C4L's wasting of people's time that you continue your childish and inappropriate slamming of ANYONE who continues to question the C4L's actions. Again, your repetition and misrepresentation of RPH as "flying off the handle" only exposes your nefarious agenda of attacking anyone who legitimately questions the C4L's mistake.

Whatever happened to "utter hostility" and "utter negativity"? Now, you falsely accuse RPH of "utter over the top" hostility. We're all waiting for the next inappropriate invective from you, Petar. ;)

Let the readers keep score. RPH's been falsely accused by YOU of "flying off the handle", exhibiting "utter hostility" and "utter negativity", and now "utter over the top" hostility. Furthermore, you've falsely accused RPH of rallying "premature lynch mobs" and now "expired ones" as well.

LOL! Formerly, RPH was falsely accused of "rallying a premature lynch mob". Now, we have you falsely accusing RPH of "rallying expired ones" (lynch mobs). Double Choice! ;)

Silence in the face of silence only allows the problem to fester. In order to silence the outstanding questions, the C4L needs to directly and accurately respond to the legitimate questions still lingering due to their silence. Mere promises are not enough.

Wow! Only two NEW false slurs against RPH, Petar? "Utter over the top hostility" and rallying "expired ones (lynch mobs) "? ... Triple Choice!

My "indifference" is aimed at the week excuse that "having to deal with a bunch of messages for a few days" is supposed to justify trying to completely tear down the whole C4L.

I know that some bad mistakes occurred, but people need to focus on tempered rational responses, as opposed to wild overreactions.

"Utter hostility", "utter negativity", and "over the top hostility" are all basically the same things, and I'm pretty sure that you know this, even though you are grasping for straws trying to depict otherwise.

I believe that anyone reading this will at least have the basic sense to see that much.

And yes, RPH was stoking a premature lynch mob, and since the C4L has now explained their mistakes, this is now an expired lynch mob that he is promoting.

I really was glad that the C4L did have its feet put to the fire for this, but the reaction really did not have to be so over the top, and to continue with such over the top hostility now that the C4L has explained their mistakes, is at least twice as foolish.

tpreitzel
02-05-2010, 07:25 AM
My "indifference" is aimed at the week excuse that "having to deal with a bunch of messages for a few days" is supposed to be an excuse to try to completely tear down the whole C4L.

"week (weak) excuse" of "having to deal with a bunch of messages for a few days"?

You do realize that RPH is involved with the Kokesh campaign, correct? You do realize that you're not only wasting my and RPH's time with your childish antics, but readers as well, correct? I'll state it again because it's pretty obvious now. Your responses only PROVE that you're an indifferent and callous individual who's main purpose is to deflect any legitimate criticism of the C4L over this issue.



I know that some bad mistakes occurred, but people need to focus on tempered rational responses, as opposed to wild overreactions.

"Utter hostility", "utter negativity", and "over the top hostility" are all basically the same things, and I'm pretty sure that you know this, even though you are grasping for straws trying to depict otherwise.Legitimate questioning of questionable events like C4L's blunder is tempered and rational. However, your petulant and false slurs against RPH for questioning the C4L over this issue are not tempered OR rational.

Now, we have you misrepresenting the responses of members with legitimate questions over the C4L's actions as "wild overreactions". Your NEW slur against members with legitimate questions about the C4L's blunder is debatable since we don't have all the facts. How would YOU know personally if the response to the C4L's blunder has been "wild overreactions" since outstanding questions remain unanswered? ;) Nothing about RPH's responses have been utterly "hostile", utterly "negative", or "over the top hostility" toward the C4L despite your attempt to inappropriately smear him.

Although hostility and negatively are frequently used together, their meanings aren't identical, but "I'm pretty sure that you know this, even though you are grasping for straws trying to depict otherwise". ;) I'm simply allowing you to write your legacy, Petar.




I'm believe that anyone reading this will at least have the basic sense to see that much.

And yes, RPH was stoking a premature lynch mob, and since the C4L has now explained their mistakes for the most part, this is now an expired lynch mob that he is promoting.I can't speak for the readers, but I see your nefarious motive alright. Let's recap. You CONTINUE to inappropriately slur RPH for legitimately questioning the C4L's blunder. You've misrepresented RPH as "flying off the handle", exhibiting utterly "hostile" behavior, utterly "negative" behavior, utterly "over the top" hostility, "stoking a premature lynch mob", "promoting an expired lynch mob", and exhibiting irrationality. Your NUTTY assertion that RPH stoked a premature lynch mob calls in question your mental stability. I'm serious. You've misrepresented legitimate questioning as "wild overreactions" without possessing all of the information required to determine so.



I really was glad that the C4L did have its feet put to the fire for this, but the reaction really did not have to be so over the top, and to continue with such over the top hostility now that the C4L has explained their mistakes, is at least twice as foolish.Although you don't have all the facts to determine if "the C4L has now explained their mistakes for the most part", you at least admit the C4L hasn't explained ALL of their mistakes which likely includes the most important ones. Unfortunately for you and the CFL, explanations to important questions remain outstanding and if history is any indication, you'll be the one looking thrice as foolish when the top-down CFL pulls another irresponsible stunt. :)

Petar
02-05-2010, 07:46 AM
"week (weak) excuse" of "having to deal with a bunch of messages for a few days"?

You do realize that RPH is involved with the Kokesh campaign, correct? You do realize that you're not only wasting my and RPH's time with your childish antics, but readers as well, correct? I'll state it again because it's pretty obvious now. Your responses only PROVE that you're an indifferent and callous individual who's main purpose is to deflect any legitimate criticism of the C4L over this issue.

Legitimate questioning of questionable events like C4L's blunder is tempered and rational. However, your petulant and false slurs against RPH for questioning the C4L over this issue are not tempered OR rational.

Now, we have you misrepresenting the responses of members with legitimate questions over the C4L's actions as "wild overreactions". Your NEW slur against members with legitimate questions about the C4L's blunder is debatable. How would YOU know personally if the response to the C4L's blunder has been "wild overreactions" since outstanding questions remain unanswered? ;) Nothing about RPH's responses have been utterly "hostile", utterly "negative", or "over the top hostility" toward the C4L despite your attempt to inappropriately smear him.

Although hostility and negatively are frequently used together, their meanings aren't identical, but "I'm pretty sure that you know this, even though you are grasping for straws trying to depict otherwise". ;) I'm simply allowing you to write your legacy.


I can't speak for the readers, but I see your nefarious motive alright. Let's recap. You CONTINUE to inappropriately slur RPH for legitimately questioning the C4L's blunder. You've misrepresented RPH as "flying off the handle", exhibiting utterly "hostile" behavior, utterly "negative" behavior, utterly "over the top" hostility, "stoking a premature lynch mob", "promoting an expired lynch mob", and exhibiting irrationality. You've misrepresented legitimate questioning as "wild overreactions" without possessing all of the information required to determine so.

Unfortunately for you and the CFL, explanations to important questions remain outstanding and if history is any indication, you'll be the one looking thrice as foolish when the top-down CFL pulls another irresponsible stunt. :)

So what if RPH is involved with the Kokesh campaign?

That should only have given him more reason to behave in a professional manner, as opposed to the way that he has been behaving.

Like I said, the C4L deserved questions and criticism over this, but they did not not deserve the over the top utter hostility, and they especially do not deserve it now that they have explained their mistakes.

I really think that you are just splitting hairs about the language that I am using to describe this one thing, I think that it is a very disingenuous "debating" tactic, and I think that people reading this will be able to see that.

Maybe the C4L does still need to provide some answers, I would be interested to hear what your questions are exactly, however, I know that whatever questions you may have cannot possibly justify the utter hostility that some people, such as RPH, have continued to express against the C4L.

tpreitzel
02-05-2010, 08:05 AM
So what if RPH is involved with the Kokesh campaign?

We've already covered this ground about your callous and flippant attitude to members working to restore constitutional liberty. Your response is totally callous and totally predictable.



That should only have given him more reason to behave in a professional manner, as opposed to the way that he has been behaving.RPH's behavior has been very professional while your behavior has be childish and unprofessional among other unpleasant things.



Like I said, the C4L deserved questions and criticism over this, but they did not not deserve the over the top utter hostility, and they especially do not deserve it now that they have explained their mistakes.Again, no "top utter hostility" has been displayed except by you in this thread against RPH.



I really think that you are just splitting hairs about the language that I am using to describe this one thing, I think that it is a very disingenuous "debating" tactic, and I think that people reading this will be able to see that.Maybe, you need to find a dictionary, Petar. Your nutty slurs speak for themselves. ;)



Maybe the C4L does still need to provide some answers, I would be interested to hear what your questions are exactly, however, I know that whatever questions you may have cannot possibly justify the utter hostility that some people, such as RPH, have continued to express against the C4L.No, not maybe. The C4L not only needs to answer outstanding questions, the C4L needs to reorganize. Again, RPH has not expressed "utter hostility" against the C4L regardless of how many times you repeat your nutty assertion.

tpreitzel
02-05-2010, 08:16 AM
Anyway, Petar, continue to babble as I'm done with you. My mission to expose your nutty nonsense has been accomplished. If desired, RPH can resume from this point.

pacelli
02-05-2010, 08:29 AM
Maybe, you need to find a dictionary, Petar. Your nutty slurs speak for themselves. ;)


Hey, don't blame the guy. He's a "Social Engineer".

Petar
02-05-2010, 08:30 AM
We've already covered this ground about your callous and flippant attitude to members working to restore constitutional liberty. Your response is totally callous and totally predictable.

RPH's behavior has been very professional while your behavior has be childish and unprofessional among other unpleasant things.

Again, no "top utter hostility" has been displayed except by you in this thread against RPH.

Maybe, you need to find a dictionary, Petar. Your nutty slurs speak for themselves. ;)

No, not maybe. The C4L not only needs to answer outstanding questions, the C4L needs to reorganize. Again, RPH has not expressed "utter hostility" against the C4L regardless of how many times you repeat your nutty assertion.

I'm not insulting RPH for helping with the Kokesh campaign, I'm just saying that it doesn't give him any special license to behave with over the top hostility towards the CFL, regarding the recent controversy.

I'm not going to comb through all of his posts to justify my opinion that he behaved with "over the top hostility", plenty of people here have been witness to it, so I don't care if you call me a liar.

You can call me childish, ugly, insane, and whatever else you want as well.

You are just another disingenuous, anti-C4L fanatic, so your opinion means nothing to me.

If you aren't able to explain what questions you feel that the C4L still needs to answer, then that is just as well, because that will probably only spare me that much more of your nonsense.

ronpaulhawaii
02-05-2010, 10:09 AM
Sheesh...



Let the readers keep score. RPH's been falsely accused by YOU of "flying off the handle", exhibiting "utter hostility" and "utter negativity", and now "utter over the top" hostility. Furthermore, you've falsely accused RPH of rallying "premature lynch mobs" and now "expired ones" as well.

Thanks for engaging Petar, and refuting these lies.

Petar. I would like you to post your proof that I:


Flew off the Handle
exibited utter hostility, negativity, etc.
rallied premature lynch mobs
called for the destruction of CfL


I can promise you that none of that is true.

1 - I know that every move I make affects my personal "political capital", every move I made was coldly calculated.

2 - While researching to prove your lame attempt at character assasination, please be very careful to differentiate what I may have said about CfL vs. my responses to apologists who came in here with insult and ridicule.

3 - Be careful to research back to the beginning, where the record will clearly show me asking the growing mob, that showed up on MY door when CfL turned off their phones, to have patience and wait for a reply before judging.

4 - I never called for the destruction of CfL and in fact have continually stated that that abandoning ship in a panic is never a good idea.

These are quite heady charges you are making against me. I stand on the record.

I can prove every counter I have just listed, can you prove even one of your libelous assertions?

Or are you just flying off at the handle?

;)

disorderlyvision
02-05-2010, 12:59 PM
I'm sorry if maybe you lost balance and fell off of your bicycle, but maybe you should try exercising a bit more control over your emotions next time.


:eek::mad:
This comment is nominated for douchebag of the year award.

Are you fucking serious!?!? Do you know how much time, effort and dedication it takes to ride a bicycle across the country...TWICE? (and planning a third) I don't agree with everything RPH has ever said by any means, But to question RPH's dedication, and imply that his "sole purpose is to turn this place into total bedlam" is fucking ludicrous. And to talk shit about his accomplishment says a lot about your character. Show the man some respect!

Meatwasp
02-05-2010, 02:10 PM
R.P.H. Please tell me you didn't have fun riding your bicycle all over? When I was young I bought the best bike you could get. It was a swin. I biked all over and met all kinds of people. I loved it. I was not political then or I believe I would have done what you are doing.
I know you are dedecated but you still had fun Right?

ronpaulhawaii
02-05-2010, 02:26 PM
R.P.H. Please tell me you didn't have fun riding your bicycle all over? When I was young I bought the best bike you could get. It was a swin. I biked all over and met all kinds of people. I loved it. I was not political then or I believe I would have done what you are doing.
I know you are dedecated but you still had fun Right?

I have great fun with people I meet. The sense of satisfaction is priceless. But really, I spend a good amount of my time out there wondering how in the hell I ended up out there. Shaking my head with a smile... I do find the solitude helpful, but it can be pretty painful, and sometimes dangerous, as well.

I learn a lot, the last trip taught me about chiggers... :eek:

At the end of the day, I'd much rather the world was all unicorns and rainbows, that I could just relax with the boyz in Poipu, playing uke after a good surf sesh, but 'till then I'm very grateful that the r3VOLution has a sense of playful humor and has been as much fun as it is.

Meatwasp
02-05-2010, 02:54 PM
Thank you RPH. I always envied you doing that. I know it is really dangerous too at times. When I raced around there was hardly any danger, only when I got cocky and hit a curb and left some skin on the pavement. Hee
You should write a book.

Petar
02-06-2010, 12:58 AM
Sheesh...



Thanks for engaging Petar, and refuting these lies.

Petar. I would like you to post your proof that I:


Flew off the Handle
exibited utter hostility, negativity, etc.
rallied premature lynch mobs
called for the destruction of CfL


I can promise you that none of that is true.

1 - I know that every move I make affects my personal "political capital", every move I made was coldly calculated.

2 - While researching to prove your lame attempt at character assasination, please be very careful to differentiate what I may have said about CfL vs. my responses to apologists who came in here with insult and ridicule.

3 - Be careful to research back to the beginning, where the record will clearly show me asking the growing mob, that showed up on MY door when CfL turned off their phones, to have patience and wait for a reply before judging.

4 - I never called for the destruction of CfL and in fact have continually stated that that abandoning ship in a panic is never a good idea.

These are quite heady charges you are making against me. I stand on the record.

I can prove every counter I have just listed, can you prove even one of your libelous assertions?

Or are you just flying off at the handle?

;)

Your reaction to this entire debacle has been one of ridiculous over the top hostility.

Plenty of people here have witnessed your recent behavior, so I don't care if you call me a liar.

Petar
02-06-2010, 12:59 AM
:eek::mad:
This comment is nominated for douchebag of the year award.

Are you fucking serious!?!? Do you know how much time, effort and dedication it takes to ride a bicycle across the country...TWICE? (and planning a third) I don't agree with everything RPH has ever said by any means, But to question RPH's dedication, and imply that his "sole purpose is to turn this place into total bedlam" is fucking ludicrous. And to talk shit about his accomplishment says a lot about your character. Show the man some respect!

I never said that it was RPH's sole purpose to turn this entire place into a bedlam...

YouTube - Monkey Bike Racing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRmDvUtxrJQ)

tpreitzel
02-06-2010, 01:45 AM
Your reaction to this entire debacle has been one of ridiculous over the top hostility.

Plenty of people here have witnessed your recent behavior, so I don't care if you call me a liar.

Petar,

Please spare us your baseless accusations against another member of these forums, i.e. RPH. BTW, based on RPH's posting record, you're a BLATANT liar about RPH's legitimate criticism of the C4L. You intentionally misrepresent his comments as you apparently have an axe to grind. However, your behavior continues to degenerate as you're now sounding petty as well as vindictive.

Personally, you need to take an extended leave of absence, but that decision isn't mine.

Petar
02-06-2010, 07:54 AM
Petar,

Please spare us your baseless accusations against another member of these forums, i.e. RPH. BTW, based on RPH's posting record, you're a BLATANT liar about RPH's legitimate criticism of the C4L. You intentionally misrepresent his comments as you apparently have an axe to grind. However, your behavior continues to degenerate as you're now sounding petty as well as vindictive.

Personally, you need to take an extended leave of absence, but that decision isn't mine.

Ok, so we have established that both you and RPH think that I am a liar, and that I don't care.

Does anyone else have anything to say?

LittleLightShining
02-06-2010, 11:48 AM
Your reaction to this entire debacle has been one of ridiculous over the top hostility.

Plenty of people here have witnessed your recent behavior, so I don't care if you call me a liar.:rolleyes:


Petar,

Please spare us your baseless accusations against another member of these forums, i.e. RPH. BTW, based on RPH's posting record, you're a BLATANT liar about RPH's legitimate criticism of the C4L. You intentionally misrepresent his comments as you apparently have an axe to grind. However, your behavior continues to degenerate as you're now sounding petty as well as vindictive.

This.

disorderlyvision
02-06-2010, 12:24 PM
I never said that it was RPH's sole purpose to turn this entire place into a bedlam...


you certainly implied it here...


This board is probably loaded with people whose sole purpose is to turn this place into a total bedlam.



and the only person in your crosshairs is RPH, who you went on to bash with your douchebag of the year statement

Petar
02-06-2010, 12:34 PM
:rolleyes:

This.

You are another member who behaved with ridiculous over the top hostility regarding this entire debacle.


you certainly implied it here...

and the only person in your crosshairs is RPH, who you went on to bash with your douchebag of the year statement

In my opinion, this board is probably loaded with people whose sole purpose is to turn this place into a total bedlam.

But, as I explained to RPH before, we can only really judge people by their directly observable behavior, and the only thing that I can directly observe about RPH regarding this entire debacle, is that he behaved with ridiculous over the top hostility.

disorderlyvision
02-06-2010, 12:49 PM
we can only really judge people by their directly observable behavior

Practice what you preach

LittleLightShining
02-06-2010, 01:00 PM
You are another member who behaved with ridiculous over the top hostility regarding this entire debacle.
So I've been told :p



In my opinion, this board is probably loaded with people whose sole purpose is to turn this place into a total bedlam.

But, as I explained to RPH before, we can only really judge people by their directly observable behavior, and the only thing that I can directly observe about RPH regarding this entire debacle, is that he behaved with ridiculous over the top hostility.
Coming from someone who has also accused rph of being overly hostile, you couldn't be more wrong here. I can't tell you how impressed I was with the FIRM but tempered response from Michael in this whole thing, and how grateful to him I am (and many unspoken others are) for refusing to acquiesce without all the facts.

Petar
02-06-2010, 01:35 PM
Practice what you preach

I never behaved with ridiculous over the top hostility regarding the recent C4L debacle.


So I've been told :p

Coming from someone who has also accused rph of being overly hostile, you couldn't be more wrong here. I can't tell you how impressed I was with the FIRM but tempered response from Michael in this whole thing, and how grateful to him I am (and many unspoken others are) for refusing to acquiesce without all the facts.

As a fellow anti-C4L fanatic, you would be impressed with Michael's recent ridiculous over the top hostility regarding the recent C4L debacle.

LittleLightShining
02-06-2010, 01:43 PM
I never behaved with ridiculous over the top hostility regarding the recent C4L debacle.



As a fellow anti-C4L fanatic, you would be impressed with Michael's recent ridiculous over the top hostility regarding the recent C4L debacle.

Thank you, Petar! I have had a long week and I really needed a genuinely hearty laugh. You rock.

Petar
02-06-2010, 01:58 PM
Thank you, Petar! I have had a long week and I really needed a genuinely hearty laugh. You rock.

If facing your own demented behavior truly amuses you so deeply then I honestly pity you.

pacelli
02-06-2010, 02:07 PM
we can only really judge people by their directly observable behavior

What directly observable behaviors have you engaged in to promote the liberty movement?

Petar
02-06-2010, 02:26 PM
What directly observable behaviors have you engaged in to promote the liberty movement?

I rode a unicycle to Africa.

disorderlyvision
02-06-2010, 02:30 PM
I never behaved with ridiculous over the top hostility regarding the recent C4L debacle.


perhaps not, but you are acting like a douchebag, that is an observable behavior. so before calling someone out on their behaviors maybe you should look in the mirror.

Case in point...


I rode a unicycle to Africa.

douchebag!

pacelli
02-06-2010, 02:32 PM
What directly observable behaviors have you engaged in to promote the liberty movement?


I rode a unicycle to Africa.

Thank you for admitting that you have not engaged in a single directly observable behavior to promote the liberty movement. Preserved for posterity.

Petar
02-06-2010, 02:34 PM
perhaps not, but you are acting like a douchebag, that is an observable behavior. so before calling someone out on their behaviors maybe you should look in the mirror.

Case in point...



douchebag!

Well, even I felt a little bit ashamed about my last statement, even though it amused me...

I really didn't wanna insult RPH any further, I just wanted to make a complete mockery of pacelli's question, because I thought that it was irrelevant to the topic at hand.

So, as I said earlier, I never behaved with ridiculous over the top hostility towards the C4L.

RPH and others did, and that is regrettable.

I understand that people aren't perfect, and they do make mistakes, so I hope that everyone learns from this.

Petar
02-06-2010, 02:36 PM
Thank you for admitting that you have not engaged in a single directly observable behavior to promote the liberty movement. Preserved for posterity.

I never admitted that, and your question was irrelevant to the topic at hand anyway.

Danke
02-06-2010, 02:40 PM
I never behaved with ridiculous over the top hostility regarding the recent C4L debacle.



As a fellow anti-C4L fanatic, you would be impressed with Michael's recent ridiculous over the top hostility regarding the recent C4L debacle.


I rode a unicycle to Africa.




Well, even I felt a little bit ashamed about my last statement, even though it amused me...

I really didn't wanna insult RPH any further, I just wanted to make a complete mockery of pacelli's question, because I thought that it was irrelevant to the topic at hand.

So, as I said earlier, I never behaved with ridiculous over the top hostility towards the C4L.

RPH and others did, and that is regrettable.

I understand that people aren't perfect, and they do make mistakes, so I hope that everyone learns from this.

Sometimes it's best to quit, while you're behind.

YouTube - girl pees while lifting weights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbRh2DzOt8M&feature=related)

Petar
02-06-2010, 02:46 PM
Sometimes it's best to quit, while you're behind.

YouTube - girl pees while lifting weights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbRh2DzOt8M&feature=related)

I feel that I will continue, but I'll let you know in case I piss myself.

Deal?

rp08orbust
02-07-2010, 02:43 AM
YouTube - Ron Paul Rally For The Republic Bruce Fein Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJiq1zDcc7c)

I cringed at the pledge to incinerate "like Hiroshima and Nagasaki" any country that attacks the US, but otherwise, it was a good speech.

dgr
02-07-2010, 06:08 PM
start out with "Angler" how Cheney lied to Bush and Armey to get the war in Iraq started, and the read "Attonemment '' how they military was short changed and sacrificed for building projects

Matt Collins
06-02-2010, 01:26 PM
2 weeks until this book is released!


SOURCE:
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=35793 (http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=35793)



As previously posted, Campaign for Liberty commissioned Bruce Fein, president of the American Freedom Agenda (http://www.americanfreedomagenda.org/) and former Deputy Attorney General, to write a foreign policy book for our organization. We needed a hard core educational tool to circulate showing the absurdity of the U.S. warfare state from someone with strong intellectual credentials.


The book is now complete and will be available this summer!


Campaign for Liberty is publishing, printing, and promoting this book through our contacts and social networks and will begin mounting a major media campaign to make sure this work gets serious attention at this critical time.


I'm pleased today to give you an exclusive preview of the book's cover design.




http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4023/4644867369_096298505a_o.jpg
The cover illustration was done by Christopher Hiers (http://chrishiers.com/default2.asp). Those of you who are regular readers of The American Conservative (http://www.amconmag.com/) magazine will recognize his work.


Stay tuned to the C4L blog for more updates about American Empire: Before the Fall.

Matt Collins
07-01-2010, 03:42 PM
Just got Bruce's book today. I'm going to try to get it mentioned on the radio with a live interview from Bruce on a nationally syndicated show!

dr. hfn
07-06-2010, 04:03 PM
it's out!

http://www.amazon.com/American-Empire-Before-Fall-Bruce/dp/1452829535/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278452739&sr=8-1

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=36760

YouTube - "American Empire: Before the Fall" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F7ld5XXJfQ)

Matt Collins
07-12-2010, 10:06 AM
Bruce Fein Gets Interviewed By Jack Hunter

YouTube - SA@TAC - Bruce Fein on "American Empire" 7/6/10 Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84PqFHIxswE&feature=player_embedded)
YouTube - SA@TAC - Bruce Fein on "American Empire" 7/6/10 Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8cL1KvYazA&feature=player_embedded)
YouTube - SA@TAC - Bruce Fein on "American Empire" 7/6/10 Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT7TLY9PDLs&feature=player_embedded)
YouTube - SA@TAC - Bruce Fein on "American Empire" 7/6/10 Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbAlNjDgGoM&feature=player_embedded)

Thomas
12-13-2010, 03:38 AM
So what did the "major media campaign" entail?