Rep. Bachmann Refuses To Fill Out 2010 Census

[Matt Collins]

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/18/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5095844.shtml

Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann told the Washington Times (http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/17/exclusive-minn-lawmaker-fears-census-abuse/) that she and her family will not be fully filling out the 2010 census forms.

Bachmann, a Republican, said her family will only be indicating the number of people in the household, because "the Constitution doesn't require any information beyond that."




.

[Matt Collins]

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.5338/pub_detail.asp



But is that constitutional?

Article 1, Section 2 of our Constitution deals with the enumeration (counting) of citizens, which happens for the purpose of determining how many House representatives each state receives:

The actual Enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as they shall by law direct.

That’s it. It says nothing about checking off a box with your ethnicity, age, or whether your home has three or four bedrooms.

If you don’t have a problem answering all of those questions that have nothing to do with how many people live in your congressional district, start checking off boxes. But if you feel the Census questions are too inquisitive, we've heard some people are doing this: answering the first question about how many people live in the home and then taping a copy of Article 1, Section 2 of the Constitution to the bottom of the form.



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[commonsense]

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.5338/pub_detail.asp



But is that constitutional?

Article 1, Section 2 of our Constitution deals with the enumeration (counting) of citizens, which happens for the purpose of determining how many House representatives each state receives:

The actual Enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as they shall by law direct.

That’s it. It says nothing about checking off a box with your ethnicity, age, or whether your home has three or four bedrooms.

If you don’t have a problem answering all of those questions that have nothing to do with how many people live in your congressional district, start checking off boxes. But if you feel the Census questions are too inquisitive, we've heard some people are doing this: answering the first question about how many people live in the home and then taping a copy of Article 1, Section 2 of the Constitution to the bottom of the form.



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I don't think it's constitutional at all. I find it laughable that they say its an offense for the census to reveal personal information. What a joke. Remember the Japanese internment camps during WWII? We all know where they got the information to round those people up.

[Vessol]

That is awesome. Glad to see someone big standing up against this BS that likes to roflstomp the little man.

The simple fact is the census is to acquire population numbers, that is all. To assign how many represenatives a state gets. That is all. Not all the BS there is now.

[libertarian4321]

For the 2000 census, I just gave them the body count, then pasted a copy of the relevant portion of the Constitution to the census to explain why I wasn't going to tell them how many low flow toilets I had in my home.

Never heard another word from them. I will do the same this time around.

[foofighter20x]

The actual Enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as they shall by law direct.

I would be cautious about this.

Keep in mind that, in context, the phrase "actual enumeration" is contra-positioned against the population estimates of each state made at the Philadelphia Convention.

Also, notice that last phrase: "in such manner as they [the Congress] shall direct by law." That read as leaving Congress a pretty free hand in determining the exact methodology to be used for counting and what information to collect.

I'm not necessarily saying this reading is correct, but how I'm describing it comes straight from Supreme Court opinions from within the past 20 years, so it's not implausible this line of thinking would be used to justify punishment for non-compliance.

As such, be careful, and be aware of the potential consequences.

Personally, I would answer any question that visibly relates to Congress's enumerated powers; e.g., if it asks the ages of the residents, I'd include the ages of the males in the house as they are subject to the draft and militia service; whether I hold a patent or copyright; what I've paid in taxes, etc.

Beyond that, screw'em.

[jmdrake]

I guess it's a good time for me to point out that I was once a census worker. It wasn't a regular census. It was an off year "special census" because Shelby Co. Alabama was trying to get more federal dollars. I went door to door with my little pad collecting information. One place I was assigned to go was the Shoal Creek Country club. If you recognize the name, the PGA was held there once but almost got derailed because they didn't allow blacks to join and the sponsors were threatening to pull out. (A token joined it and it went ahead). Anyway I talked to the manager and he was more then happy to show me a map of the number of houses, but he wouldn't let me in to go door to door. Mind you this wasn't a racial thing. He said the folks there paid for their privacy and he wasn't going to violate that. In our training we had been told that if we ran into any problems to point out that we were "federal workers". Well I did that....and he politely told me that it didn't matter. I went back and told my supervisor...and she told me I had to go back and try again. The same thing happened for about a week. Finally she asked me why I had started running up so many miles, but wasn't getting any results. I explained it was because she kept sending me back to the same place that kept telling me no. So she said she'd go herself. Guess what? He didn't cooperate with her either! (That's how I knew for sure it wasn't a racial thing). Her supervisor tried and again got nowhere.

So the moral of the story is if you politely tell these census people where to go it is very unlikely that anything will happen to you. If you don't at least give the number of people you are hurting your own state (slightly), but beyond that it means nothing. They aren't going to expend the resources to kick your door in to find out how many flush toilets you have. And if they were that stupid, if enough people didn't comply it would overwhelm the system.


I would be cautious about this.

Keep in mind that, in context, the phrase "actual enumeration" is contra-positioned against the population estimates of each state made at the Philadelphia Convention.

Also, notice that last phrase: "in such manner as they [the Congress] shall direct by law." That read as leaving Congress a pretty free hand in determining the exact methodology to be used for counting and what information to collect.

I'm not necessarily saying this reading is correct, but how I'm describing it comes straight from Supreme Court opinions from within the past 20 years, so it's not implausible this line of thinking would be used to justify punishment for non-compliance.

As such, be careful, and be aware of the potential consequences.

Personally, I would answer any question that visibly relates to Congress's enumerated powers; e.g., if it asks the ages of the residents, I'd include the ages of the males in the house as they are subject to the draft and militia service; whether I hold a patent or copyright; what I've paid in taxes, etc.

Beyond that, screw'em.

[low preference guy]

That is awesome. Glad to see someone big standing up against this BS that likes to roflstomp the little man.

The simple fact is the census is to acquire population numbers, that is all. To assign how many represenatives a state gets. That is all. Not all the BS there is now.

The news article in the OP is from June 2009. Does she have the same position now?

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Does anyone know what questions there are going to be? Last year I noticed a worker walking by my home on the lawn with a strange device, a week later I read about census workers marking down GPS locations of peoples homes, I was so pissed!

[erowe1]

I guess it's a good time for me to point out that I was once a census worker. It wasn't a regular census. It was an off year "special census" because Shelby Co. Alabama was trying to get more federal dollars. I went door to door with my little pad collecting information. One place I was assigned to go was the Shoal Creek Country club. If you recognize the name, the PGA was held there once but almost got derailed because they didn't allow blacks to join and the sponsors were threatening to pull out. (A token joined it and it went ahead). Anyway I talked to the manager and he was more then happy to show me a map of the number of houses, but he wouldn't let me in to go door to door. Mind you this wasn't a racial thing. He said the folks there paid for their privacy and he wasn't going to violate that. In our training we had been told that if we ran into any problems to point out that we were "federal workers". Well I did that....and he politely told me that it didn't matter. I went back and told my supervisor...and she told me I had to go back and try again. The same thing happened for about a week. Finally she asked me why I had started running up so many miles, but wasn't getting any results. I explained it was because she kept sending me back to the same place that kept telling me no. So she said she'd go herself. Guess what? He didn't cooperate with her either! (That's how I knew for sure it wasn't a racial thing). Her supervisor tried and again got nowhere.

So the moral of the story is if you politely tell these census people where to go it is very unlikely that anything will happen to you. If you don't at least give the number of people you are hurting your own state (slightly), but beyond that it means nothing. They aren't going to expend the resources to kick your door in to find out how many flush toilets you have. And if they were that stupid, if enough people didn't comply it would overwhelm the system.

That's an interesting story. So really, not only could we get away with not filling in the extra info, we could get away with not giving them any info at all, including number in the household.

I would say that this is constitutional, since the Constitution authorizes them to enumerate us, but it doesn't in so doing also obligate us all to do anything at all to help them. And requiring us to expend any time filling out the census without remuneration for our time is prohibited by the 13th amendment.

[dr. hfn]

This is awesome! I hope she still is taking lessons from Ron!

[haaaylee]

this is old news Collins.

Search is your friend.

YouTube - Bachmann Rails Against Census On Beck (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZS9UW0okY4)

Or do you just like making your own posts about things that have already been posted about, like the rap video.

Bump the old post instead.

[jmdrake]

That's an interesting story. So really, not only could we get away with not filling in the extra info, we could get away with not giving them any info at all, including number in the household.

I would say that this is constitutional, since the Constitution authorizes them to enumerate us, but it doesn't in so doing also obligate us all to do anything at all to help them. And requiring us to expend any time filling out the census without remuneration for our time is prohibited by the 13th amendment.

I should re-iterate that this was an off year special census not specifically authorized by the constitution. That said, you probably could get away with not cooperating at all. But if too many people did that in liberty leaning states, statist leaning states would have a larger representation in congress.

[Matt Collins]

this is old news Collins.

Search is your friend.


Or do you just like making your own posts about things that have already been posted about, like the rap video.

Bump the old post instead.

When I posted this the search feature was disabled. :)

[puppetmaster]

For the 2000 census, I just gave them the body count, then pasted a copy of the relevant portion of the Constitution to the census to explain why I wasn't going to tell them how many low flow toilets I had in my home.

Never heard another word from them. I will do the same this time around.

I did the same and plan on repeating