What will satisfy you in the CFL/John Tate announcement

[Elwar]

What would Tate have to say in his announcement that would satisfy you as far as the CFL ad goes?

[UtahApocalypse]

I full explanation, who is being let go for this "mistake", what the plan for future transparency is. That alone will not fix things, but then the healing could possibly star.

[pacelli]

That they were just as mystified as everyone else, they have a suspicion about who engaged in the fraudulent behavior, and a lawsuit has already been initiated.

Anything less is spinning a cover-up.

[MsDoodahs]

Reveal name(s) of donors.

Reveal the COMPLETE path of contact.

Who did the donor(s) initially contact? Did the donor go to the candidate and offer the money?

Who was the INITIAL CFL person that was contacted and by whom?

Who within CFL was responsible for vetting the DONOR?

Who within CFL provided the SURVEY to the CANDIDATE?

What DATE was the candidate provided with the survey?

What DATE was the survey returned?

Publish the ENTIRE SURVEY response from the candidate.

Who within CFL was responsible for VETTING THE CANDIDATE?

Reveal any and all PRIOR CONTACTS of ALL CFL staff with the donor(s).

Reveal any and all PRIOR CONTACTS of ALL CFL staff with the candidate.

Reveal the names of ALL CFL STAFF who DISAGREE with RON PAUL on FOREIGN POLICY.

Reveal the names of ALL CFL STAFF involved in the rumored decision to support candidates who disagree with RON PAUL on FORGEIGN POLICY so long as the candidate is a "fiscal conservative."

Reveal the EXACT DATE that rumored decision was made, if it is in fact TRUE.

IF the rumored decision is in fact TRUE - IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY EVERY PAST DONOR AND EVERY MEMBER OF THIS MASSIVE SHIFT OF POLICY.

And that's just for starters off the top of my head.

[MsDoodahs]

Elwar and everyone - I somehow managed to click "unapprove" on this thread, I have corrected my error.

My apologies.

[TruthisTreason]

No, this isn't the announcement...just a question.

What would Tate have to say in his announcement that would satisfy you as far as the CFL ad goes?

I think we need new leadership from the top down!

[LittleLightShining]

Reveal name(s) of donors.

Reveal the COMPLETE path of contact.

Who did the donor(s) initially contact? Did the donor go to the candidate and offer the money?

Who was the INITIAL CFL person that was contacted and by whom?

Who within CFL was responsible for vetting the DONOR?

Who within CFL provided the SURVEY to the CANDIDATE?

What DATE was the candidate provided with the survey?

What DATE was the survey returned?

Publish the ENTIRE SURVEY response from the candidate.

Who within CFL was responsible for VETTING THE CANDIDATE?

Reveal any and all PRIOR CONTACTS of ALL CFL staff with the donor(s).

Reveal any and all PRIOR CONTACTS of ALL CFL staff with the candidate.

Reveal the names of ALL CFL STAFF who DISAGREE with RON PAUL on FOREIGN POLICY.

Reveal the names of ALL CFL STAFF involved in the rumored decision to support candidates who disagree with RON PAUL on FORGEIGN POLICY so long as the candidate is a "fiscal conservative."

Reveal the EXACT DATE that rumored decision was made, if it is in fact TRUE.

IF the rumored decision is in fact TRUE - IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY EVERY PAST DONOR AND EVERY MEMBER OF THIS MASSIVE SHIFT OF POLICY.

And that's just for starters off the top of my head.

This.


NOW!

[Original_Intent]

What LLS said.

I think if I knew that C4L only acted as a money conduit, and ALL of the $350,000 came from specific donations which the donor specified for that use - I still wouldn't love it but that would substantially reduce my anger.

If one dime of "discretionary" or "general" funds went into it, then I think only a firing or a resignation of anyone involved in that decision would satisfy me.

I would also LIKE to hear why it has taken going on two days to officialy respond. This would go a long ways to restoring some trust, to me among the worst things about how this has been handled is it appears that everything is being timed in such a way as to give everyone the weekend to cool down. That leads me to feel manipulated, and that pisses me off.

Any further information above and beyond that would be gravy.

[catdd]

Be honest about what happened, fix the problem, and guarantee transparency from here on.

[MsDoodahs]

Promises are made to be broken.

[idirtify]

Is this a trick question or what? Unless you have been under a rock lately, the answer is obvious. For starters, how about ANYTHING explaining how this action fit the non-interventionism principle, as stated here:
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/about.php#mission
I still have nothing from C4L in my inbox. Or if they want to claim it would be too hard to explain in a single statement, they could post an explanation here and enter a dialog.

[LittleLightShining]

What LLS said.

I think if I knew that C4L only acted as a money conduit, and ALL of the $350,000 came from specific donations which the donor specified for that use - I still wouldn't love it but that would substantially reduce my anger.

If one dime of "discretionary" or "general" funds went into it, then I think only a firing or a resignation of anyone involved in that decision would satisfy me.

I would also LIKE to hear why it has taken going on two days to officialy respond. This would go a long ways to restoring some trust, to me among the worst things about how this has been handled is it appears that everything is being timed in such a way as to give everyone the weekend to cool down. That leads me to feel manipulated, and that pisses me off.

Any further information above and beyond that would be gravy.

I'm afraid that's not gonna cut the mustard with me. There is a reason an outside donor decided to drop the money on this guy. If speculation about the identity of this donor is correct then C4L is complicit in working with an individual that ONLY puts money (and LOTS of it) into the hands of candidates who will advance the gay agenda. (Don't get me wrong, I really have no problem with gay PEOPLE.) HOWEVER the fact of the matter is that this guy is responsible for a total and complete shift in the makeup of the Colorado legislature from Republican to Democrat. In addition to that this guy invested in 52 of 68 open congressional (and senatorial) seats last year. Of the 52 he invested in 52 won.

C4L making bedfellows with this guy in promoting a candidate (NOT a survey) that is supportive of an interventionist foreign policy and prosecuting hate crimes is DISTURBING.

[Austin]

Copy of the candidate survey
What score one has to get to get ads run in their area with general funds
What score one has to get to get ads run in their area with earmarked funds

It's already pretty clear that the ad is a result of either one large earmarked donation or several earmarked donations. I'm just curious as to what the correlation is between survey score / earmark & non-earmarked donations / ad campaigns.

[catdd]

They have to guarantee transparency. Maybe an audit at the end of every year.

[Austin]

They have to guarantee transparency. Maybe an audit at the end of every year.

This will never happen, and I don't think it should.

[constituent]

i dunno, some bloodletting?

[catdd]

Krippy : "This will never happen, and I don't think it should."



If it's good enough for the Fed it should be good enough for them.

[brandon]

I would like an announcement from Ron Paul that John Tate and co have all been dismissed and new leadership is coming in.

[LittleLightShining]

I would like an announcement from Ron Paul that John Tate and co have all been dismissed and new leadership is coming in.

Yes, this, too! It's the only way he's gonna be able to regain credibility after this, I'm afraid.

[UtahApocalypse]

YouTube - You're Fired (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGlv2Rk5RcA)

[Meiun]

Agree with full disclosure, then firing of those involved.

The bigger issue here is, despite corrective action, this could come back to hurt RP the same way the whole racist charge did during the campaign last time!

[Elwar]

Is this a trick question or what?

No, something tells me that nobody's going to be satisfied with what the announcement is. I was just curious about what action folks here would be satisfied with.

[Eric21ND]

I say we take off and nuke the site by orbit, its the only way to be sure.

[Todd]

I say we take off and nuke the site by orbit, its the only way to be sure.

:D good one..

YouTube - Aliens - "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s1MspmfEwg)

[Daamien]

For a group that champions liberty, why do we not get to vote on C4L's leadership and why has that leadership acted without our approval?

I want John Tate gone immediately.

[Elwar]

For a group that champions liberty, why do we not get to vote on C4L's leadership and why has that leadership acted without our approval?

I want John Tate gone immediately.

Democracy does not imply liberty.

[Daamien]

Democracy does not imply liberty.

Yes, but consider the reverse:

Liberty does imply democracy.

[Elwar]

Yes, but consider the reverse:

Liberty does imply democracy.

Liberty implies two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner?

[Meatwasp]

I am afraid lies or truth will not satify some of the members here. I just pray Dr Paul is not soiled in all this

[LittleLightShining]

I posted this elsewhere but I think it bears repeating:


I also believe that these conversations are being monitored and the response is taking so long because they are analyzing what immediate questions they need to address and what can be pushed aside or glossed over.

Now is not the time to back down. Now is the time to fight with all we've got for what we believe in. If we're not willing to do this with C4L we don't have what it takes to take back our country.

[torchbearer]

Liberty does imply democracy.

that is false.
you could have liberty with no democracy.
you could have council seats selected by lottery and the positions only purpose would be to maintain the functions of contract mediations in disputes and retrieval of people who have violated other people's rights(prevents vigilanties)
for prosecution.

[idirtify]

No, something tells me that nobody's going to be satisfied with what the announcement is. I was just curious about what action folks here would be satisfied with.

Well we sure won’t be satisfied with NOTHING. I mean our concerns are crystal clear and their announcements/explanations are entirely absent. This thread is kinda like asking slaves exactly what type of freedom they think they would like to have. More detailed answers about satisfaction will certainly be easier AFTER we see the first announcement/explanation.

[specsaregood]

I think we need new leadership from the top down!

There is absolutely no reason that the leadership didn't originally come from the "grassroots". Maybe that mistake should be corrected now.

[Daamien]

Liberty implies two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner?

Nice sarcastic use of analogy, but this isn't meant to be a critique of democracy, we are comparing it to despotism.

The point is that liberty favors democracy over despotism. John Tate is voting alone for everyone's dinner.

[Daamien]

that is false.
you could have liberty with no democracy.
you could have council seats selected by lottery and the positions only purpose would be to maintain the functions of contract mediations in disputes and retrieval of people who have violated other people's rights(prevents vigilanties)
for prosecution.

That is not liberty. You are sacrificing your self sovereignty to an arbitrary governance.

[torchbearer]

That is not liberty. You are sacrificing your self sovereignty to an arbitrary governance.

really? which of your rights were taken during the act of selecting someone to enforce the contracts you make and removing people from the community who have stolen, defrauded, injured, or murdered someone else?

[Daamien]

really? which of your rights were taken during the act of selecting someone to enforce the contracts you make and removing people from the community who have stolen, defrauded, injured, or murdered someone else?

You didn't get to select them. You have sacrificed your right of free expression (in terms of supporting issues and representation) for the convenience of a non-partial government. The lottery box selected them, and therefore you have no sovereignty while the lottery, something inhuman, seems to.

We believe in a democratic-republic form of government which acknowledges that the sovereign power is founded in the people, individually, not in the collective nor in the abstract, as in your lottery example.

[LittleLightShining]

The last page of this thread is taking eyes off of the very important purpose of the thread-- what constitutes an acceptable response. Get back on message.

[Daamien]

The last page of this thread is taking eyes off of the very important purpose of the thread-- what constitutes an acceptable response. Get back on message.

I agree, but don't blame me. All I asked is why C4L doesn't have an elected leadership? I doubt a situation like this would occur with one.

[UtahApocalypse]

Looks like the majority of people on the C4L forums are demanding Mr. Tate resigns and that is the ONLY action that will cause them to stay members or donate ever again

[RyanRSheets]

I'm afraid that's not gonna cut the mustard with me.

Rome is burning and you're trying to cut mustard?! Stop that. You look silly. Besides, mustard doesn't even need to be cut! It's a liquid!

[LittleLightShining]

Reveal name(s) of donors.

Reveal the COMPLETE path of contact.

Who did the donor(s) initially contact? Did the donor go to the candidate and offer the money?

Who was the INITIAL CFL person that was contacted and by whom?

Who within CFL was responsible for vetting the DONOR?

Who within CFL provided the SURVEY to the CANDIDATE?

What DATE was the candidate provided with the survey?

What DATE was the survey returned?

Publish the ENTIRE SURVEY response from the candidate.

Who within CFL was responsible for VETTING THE CANDIDATE?

Reveal any and all PRIOR CONTACTS of ALL CFL staff with the donor(s).

Reveal any and all PRIOR CONTACTS of ALL CFL staff with the candidate.

Reveal the names of ALL CFL STAFF who DISAGREE with RON PAUL on FOREIGN POLICY.

Reveal the names of ALL CFL STAFF involved in the rumored decision to support candidates who disagree with RON PAUL on FORGEIGN POLICY so long as the candidate is a "fiscal conservative."

Reveal the EXACT DATE that rumored decision was made, if it is in fact TRUE.

IF the rumored decision is in fact TRUE - IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY EVERY PAST DONOR AND EVERY MEMBER OF THIS MASSIVE SHIFT OF POLICY.

And that's just for starters off the top of my head.
bump

[UtahApocalypse]

changing all my previous answers. This 5 O'cock Friday crap is bull and the only thing that will save my membership is the resignation of the entire top staff.

[RideTheDirt]

I want resignations

Tate should get the ball rolling and announce his first. Tonight would be optimal.

[Daamien]

I want resignations

Tate should get the ball rolling and announce his first. Tonight would be optimal.

Agreed