We demand complete and total transparency for our donations from C4L or else!

[Reason]

Self edited pending c4l statement

[Vessol]

/signed, Ryan W. a once and no longer Campaign For Liberty donator.

[newbitech]

Show us the survey!

[moonshineplease]

Here Here....here hear her hur

[qh4dotcom]

Look, if you guys want to help CFL, Rand Paul and Ron Paul you guys are doing it the wrong way...give money to them directly and stuff like this happens...I don't trust the Paul family with my money after they blew $34 million in the 2008 presidential race. I don't ever recall RP saying that he would spend campaign contributions wisely like Peter Schiff has. What you should do instead is buy bumper stickers, T-shirts, etc at the Campaign for Liberty Store, the RonPaulforCongress.com store, etc and pass this them out or sell them on Ebay...that way you accomplish two goals...helping spread the liberty message and donating to their campaigns. Store purchases are considered as campaign contributions....at least if you make a purchase at their stores, you get something in return and you may even get back your money by selling the merchandise.

[dr. hfn]

+1776

[LittleLightShining]

I can't wait to hear the statement Tate is supposedly working on.

[rancher89]

We shall see.....

[brandon]

First and foremost,

We demand that John Tate resigns.

[LittleLightShining]

First and foremost,

We demand that John Tate resigns.

Why stop there? Debbie Hopper and Michael Rothfeld need to go, too.

[Austin]

Why stop there? Debbie Hopper and Michael Rothfeld need to go, too.
What is Rothfeld's position within the organization?

[brandon]

Why stop there? Debbie Hopper and Michael Rothfeld need to go, too.

I know Debbie Hopper personally. I've went out to dinner with her a couple times. I'm fairly confident her heart is in the right place and she's not responsible for this. But if she did have some responsibility in this, then yes, get rid of her. I don't know Rothfeld.

[RATM99]

Just like the Tea Party was hijacked from us. Now this. Controlled opposition is the goal. They're getting rid of the one's that pose the biggest threat to them. C4L
needs to fire people over this and never pull this crap again. Or I was lose all faith in them. We need to stop trying to change the GOP. It's a failed policy. The GOP is changing us. From the Tea Parties to C4L. Our movement is only being hijacked by the Neo-Cons. The hell with the GOP and Tea Party. Let's start our own movement with a clear and definitive platform that seperates us from the GOP and Neo-Cons. We need to be out on the streets more as well. From protesting the wars to big government, spending, debt and loss of liberties. It's time we take this movement to the next level and show people who we are and what we stand for. And not let it be hijacked from us anymore.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Standing by for all of the facts.

http://goodguy.sfblogs.net/files/2008/02/010-told-you-so.png

The reasonable plan of action moving forward is the same now as it was after the campaign and it does not require a top down organization. I don't expect anything to change. I do not expect history not to repeat itself. Despite objections raised about the CFL people we're sold then and they will be resold. Just a temporary hiccup, if you have CFL undies on I wouldn't get them all bunched up over this.

[LittleLightShining]

What is Rothfeld's position within the organization? I wasn't able to discern his official position in all of the many hours I spent talking with Debbie Hopper. I know he's behind the fundraising and teaches strategy at conferences.


I know Debbie Hopper personally. I've went out to dinner with her a couple times. I'm fairly confident her heart is in the right place and she's not responsible for this. But if she did have some responsibility in this, then yes, get rid of her. I don't know Rothfeld.She may or may not be a very nice person. That said, she likes where she sits. The Tate/Rothfeld/Hopper connection needs to be researched, going back into the PCC. Something's fishy to me.

[angelatc]

First and foremost,

We demand that John Tate resigns.

That's what I'd like to see, but we don't have anybody to put in his place, do we?

I've got a short list of people I'd like to see gone too, but letting a new leader make his/her own decisions makes some sense to me too.

[idirtify]

how about a little background for those who aren't sure what this is about (like me)?

[Reason]

how about a little background for those who aren't sure what this is about (like me)?

Read this thread,

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=228504

[LittleLightShining]

Here's some information about Rothfeld's group:

Direct Marketing Management
for More Net Money (http://saberinc.net/saber/index.htm)

SABER will work with you every step of the way to raise more net money from more donors. Our job is to advise and assist you in managing your direct response and fundraising programs. And while helping you raise millions of dollars, SABER never controls your lists or money. SABER's services include copywriting, graphic arts, print purchasing, database design and much more. From direct mail and telemarketing to internet fundraising, SABER is your one-stop direct marketing management solution.

[idirtify]

Read this thread,

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=228504

ok, thanks. that's what I thought but I wasn't sure.

[pcosmar]

how about a little background for those who aren't sure what this is about (like me)?

That is unlikely.

I still don't know why Paul Garfield was dumped in Michigan and replaced with Hooper.
Things went down hill after that.
Never did get any answer as to why.
:confused:

[Peace&Freedom]

Just like the Tea Party was hijacked from us. Now this. Controlled opposition is the goal. They're getting rid of the one's that pose the biggest threat to them. C4L
needs to fire people over this and never pull this crap again. Or I was lose all faith in them. We need to stop trying to change the GOP. It's a failed policy. The GOP is changing us. From the Tea Parties to C4L. Our movement is only being hijacked by the Neo-Cons. The hell with the GOP and Tea Party. Let's start our own movement with a clear and definitive platform that seperates us from the GOP and Neo-Cons. We need to be out on the streets more as well. From protesting the wars to big government, spending, debt and loss of liberties. It's time we take this movement to the next level and show people who we are and what we stand for. And not let it be hijacked from us anymore.

Yup, and this has been the internal dynamic troubling the movement since the Paul candidacy began in 2007. The bottom up, true grassroots could not truly communicate interactively with the 'official' campaign, who either had entirely traditional (top down) ideas about how to proceed, or no ideas. The grassroots collectively decided to take the deep risks of proceeding with innovative methods (money bombs, call Iowa, etc) to build up Paul, and presumed the 'old school' oriented campaign would then do all the right 'traditional' things with the new donations and names it received.

The campaign instead squandered much of the cash with ineffective mailings, then later rolled the rest into launching CFL (instead of using it fund a Paul campaign for President, which at least would have been more consistent with the original intent of the donors for the use of the funds). Now we find many of the candidates supported under CFL hold major positions hostile to the agenda Paul and the revolution advanced in 2007-8 and forward. We've been had!

The notion of 'saving' just one political mainstream entity (the Republican Party) in a landscape filled with Total State-supporting structures is fundamentally flawed. The GOP and rest of the establishment has shown it can and will co-opt a partial insurgency. Only a total effort to replace the current political order will work. Back to the Revolution!

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

how about a little background for those who aren't sure what this is about (like me)?

Here is what is going on. During the campaign a group of people said constitutional government works and we want to restore it. Once restored government can be trusted again. It was later conceded government can only be trusted again if the people are eternally vigilant. Many of these same people fell in love with the top down organization of the CFL. Entrusting wise overlords to spend their money. The CFL hasn't done anything legally wrong here. People voluntarily gave the CFL money out of misplaced trust and the CFL spent it. Which could almost be argued as an improvement from the campaign. But once again the wise overlords empowered by central planning have seemed to upset the peasants.

[ItsTime]

This movement is nothing but a bunch of cry baby p-ssies.

[idirtify]

Yup, and this has been the internal dynamic troubling the movement since the Paul candidacy began in 2007. The bottom up, true grassroots could not truly communicate interactively with the 'official' campaign, who either had entirely traditional (top down) ideas about how to proceed, or no ideas. The grassroots collectively decided to take the deep risks of proceeding with innovative methods (money bombs, call Iowa, etc) to build up Paul, and presumed the 'old school' oriented campaign would then do all the right 'traditional' things with the new donations and names it received.

The campaign instead squandered much of the cash with ineffective mailings, then later rolled the rest into launching CFL (instead of using it fund a Paul campaign for President, which at least would have been more consistent with the original intent of the donors for the use of the funds). Now we find many of the candidates supported under CFL hold major positions hostile to the agenda Paul and the revolution advanced in 2007-8 and forward. We've been had!

The notion of 'saving' just one political mainstream entity (the Republican Party) in a landscape filled with Total State-supporting structures is fundamentally flawed. The GOP and rest of the establishment has shown it can and will co-opt a partial insurgency. Only a total effort to replace the current political order will work. Back to the Revolution!

Pretty good assessment, but I’m wondering about the mechanics of the corrupting dynamic. How exactly does it transpire? I mean is it only via strategic candidate selection, or do you suppose there are threats & extortion & blackmail and bribes & payoffs involved? I know it’s only speculation from the outside (and confirmation would not even come from insiders), but I’m curious about whether overt threats of violence might be involved. I only ask because I suspect most people are oblivious to the mafia-like power the government has accumulated thanks in large part to many decades of drug prohibition.

[LittleLightShining]

Bwahahaha! I just tried to call again and got an answering machine message that says they are closed for the Thanksgiving holiday.

[ItsTime]

Bwahahaha! I just tried to call again and got an answering machine message that says they are closed for the Thanksgiving holiday.

I would do the same f-ing thing. No wonder this movement is called a bunch of whack jobs and kooks. People cant even wait for a statement to start badgering their own.

[idirtify]

Here is what is going on. During the campaign a group of people said constitutional government works and we want to restore it. Once restored government can be trusted again. It was later conceded government can only be trusted again if the people are eternally vigilant. Many of these same people fell in love with the top down organization of the CFL. Entrusting wise overlords to spend their money. The CFL hasn't done anything legally wrong here. People voluntarily gave the CFL money out of misplaced trust and the CFL spent it. Which could almost be argued as an improvement from the campaign. But once again the wise overlords empowered by central planning have seemed to upset the peasants.

Thanks for the recap.

And now the peasants are once again left to guess at the wiles of their overlords, even though they hired them to overlord.

[idirtify]

I would do the same f-ing thing. No wonder this movement is called a bunch of whack jobs and kooks. People cant even wait for a statement to start badgering their own.

It’s called “action” and “instant communication”. It’s here to stay. Get used to it.

[LittleLightShining]

I would do the same f-ing thing. No wonder this movement is called a bunch of whack jobs and kooks. People cant even wait for a statement to start badgering their own.

The fact that they are taking so long to say ANYTHING doesn't tell you something?

[rancher89]

It wouldn't have looked like badgering if they'd have responded in a timely manner...for example, this morning....it's now 12:30 in the afternoon and no statement.

What is so difficult about making a statement that someone screwed up??? 'cause someone did, it just remains to be seen who it comes down to---probably just Howard.

I'm not badgering, I'm calmly asking for clarification, again.

[ItsTime]

The fact that they are taking so long to say ANYTHING doesn't tell you something?

yes, that they are spending too much time answering whack jobs that call them and not enough time responding.

[ItsTime]

It’s called “action” and “instant communication”. It’s here to stay. Get used to it.


Get use to a bunch of whine ass babies? No wonder this movement ever got traction until the neo-cons hijacked it.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

I must admit all the panic and lynch mobbing is funny as hell.

Oh noes the sky is falling :eek:

Is that confirmed? No, but can't you see it sagging? :)

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

Get use to a bunch of whine ass babies? No wonder this movement ever got traction until the neo-cons hijacked it.

Be careful there. 10k+ posts won't save you from the forum guidelines.

[ItsTime]

Be careful there. 10k+ posts won't save you from the forum guidelines.

If the forum has turned into bashing the C4L whats the use of the board anyway?

[Gray Seal]

I am a candidate for Congress with my primary next Tuesday (Groundhog Day). I filled out the Campaign for Liberty questionnaire immediately and returned promptly. Has anyone in the Illinois Campaign for Liberty been given that information? I do not think so. What was that survey for?

Mike Firsching District 19 IL Republican primary candidate

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

If the forum has turned into bashing the C4L whats the use of the board anyway?

You've lost prospective sir. With the occurrence of recent bannings, and knowing how important you are to LF, I would suggest you step away and come back later tonight. Nothing will be solved by getting pissed off at people who are pissed off. I promise you the cause of Liberty will not fail if you take a few hours. :o

[idirtify]

yes, that they are spending too much time answering whack jobs that call them and not enough time responding.

The one who does the most name-calling gets the least credibility.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

If the forum has turned into bashing the C4L whats the use of the board anyway?

I do believe one of the arguments against the CFL after the campaign was that Ron Paul should be separate from the grassroots liberty pursuit. As long as Ron Paul is the figurehead collateral damage is the risk.

This forum does not discriminate in its chastising. The blimp was bashed, the official campaign was bashed, hell this forum is critical of most things. But on the other side of the coin the whole anti-Ron Paul card your playing has been used just as much. There is the balance.

[Reason]

//

[UtahApocalypse]

I am a candidate for Congress with my primary next Tuesday (Groundhog Day). I filled out the Campaign for Liberty questionnaire immediately and returned promptly. Has anyone in the Illinois Campaign for Liberty been given that information? I do not think so. What was that survey for?

Mike Firsching District 19 IL Republican primary candidate

I take it you never git a $350k Ad made?

[LittleLightShining]

I am a candidate for Congress with my primary next Tuesday (Groundhog Day). I filled out the Campaign for Liberty questionnaire immediately and returned promptly. Has anyone in the Illinois Campaign for Liberty been given that information? I do not think so. What was that survey for?

Mike Firsching District 19 IL Republican primary candidateAfter speaking with the kid doing the survey work today I doubt if the people on the ground in Illinois even know you GOT a survey. I could be wrong but the whole process seems to completely circumvent the people on the ground.

[idirtify]

Get use to a bunch of whine ass babies? No wonder this movement ever got traction until the neo-cons hijacked it.

Besides your name-calling being immature, your comment is self-defeating. Regarding those pejoratives you have chosen to throw, they would appear to much better reflect your own behavior; making frivolous complaints against legitimate complaints.