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Knightskye
01-27-2010, 02:30 PM
http://www.buckforcolorado.com/issues102k9.php


My son is a third year cadet at West Point. I'm very proud of my son's decision to serve his country. He understands the risks involved. He also understands there is a price for freedom in this country and he's willing to stand up and shoulder that burden. For so many of our brave men and women today, that means shouldering the burden in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We definitely need to continue a major effort in Afghanistan. We are told this effort will take at least 10 years. It will require both military and civilian personnel to help build up the country. The generals on the ground tell us we are likely to be in Afghanistan for the long term with a difficult and complicated mission.

As Colorado's Senator I will always look first to the advice of the generals, and I will strongly support the mission of our troops who are in harm's way.


A group called Campaign for Liberty is spending almost $350,000 on ads touting Ken Buck’s GOP Senate campaign.
http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2010/01/26/big-bucks-for-ken-bucks/

WTF? That's where my money is going? :mad:

brandon
01-27-2010, 02:32 PM
You gotta be kidding me.

Edit: Confirmed

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 02:32 PM
Is this our CFL? Our CFL can't endorse or spend money on candidates.

MRoCkEd
01-27-2010, 02:34 PM
The following note is from Ronnie Paul, chairman of C4L's Board of Directors:

Dear C4L Member,


Last week, Campaign for Liberty bought airtime in Colorado as part of our candidate survey program. Our purpose was to get candidates for office on the record about their position on issues like undeclared war, abolishing the IRS, supporting competing currencies and rescinding the Patriot Act.

Our intentions were good, but we made mistakes. We had poor communication with you about the program and the messaging of the commercial did not fit with C4L's principles. Many of you have spoken out and offered constructive criticism. We have learned some important lessons, and will be stronger as a result. We will implement checks and balances to prevent anything like this from happening again.

A small but vocal minority has decided to wage cruel and vicious personal attacks against our president, John Tate. This is unfortunate. John is a kind and decent family man who has worked unbelievably hard and has always tried to do the right thing. There should be no place for this in our movement and simply wastes the time and energy we should be using to fight for Liberty.

Looking at the big picture, C4L has achieved tremendous success over the past year. We have been instrumental in passing Audit the Fed in the House. We have trained thousands of activists so they have the tools to win. We have set up independent state chapters across the country. And, our numbers have grown to over a quarter million strong, forming a grassroots army to take our freedoms back. Our successes greatly outweigh our mistakes, and we WILL stay the course.

C4L is playing a leading role in the Liberty Movement. I am convinced that our efforts, along with those of many others, will continue the Ron Paul Revolution. C4L's successes are many, and as we progress into our second year, I see many more ahead. We deeply appreciate your support.


In Liberty,


Ronnie Paul

Chairman of the Board

newbitech
01-27-2010, 02:38 PM
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/ken-buck/

YouTube - CO pro buck ad.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R87D8DCgJcA)

newbitech
01-27-2010, 02:40 PM
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/profile.php?member=Gary_Howard

CFL Profile on Gary Howard

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 02:45 PM
motherfuckers!

MRoCkEd
01-27-2010, 02:52 PM
edit: big misunderstanding

newbitech
01-27-2010, 02:53 PM
So I did a google search for "candidate surveys" in the CFL website.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=site%3Acampaignforliberty.com%2F+%22candidate+su rvey%22&aq=f&aql=&aqi=&oq=

Not sure who would authorize dropping 350k to promote some surveys over the boob tube. However, there doesn't seem to be much buzz about the survey's at the website.

This doesn't even look like a local Colorado group, its coming from national. And if giving a candidate media praise and spending over a third of a million on the ad isn't a tacit endorsement...

sheesh. Why not drop that cash on Rand's campaign or any of the other liberty polls out there. I don't get it. Also, why not run a fundraiser for this instead of pulling it out of the "old money coffers" aka Tea Party (the real one) or Vendetta (remember remember the 5th of Nov.) money bombs.

eesshhh.. this sounds like a stretch to me.

newbitech
01-27-2010, 02:56 PM
They are promoting "the survey", using Buck as motivation for other candidates to sign it.
I want to know why they didn't do this with one of our liberty candidates though?


Well is this survey online? Cause I am sure it would be nice if the CFL "leaked" this survey to the grassroots we'd be able to generate more of a buzz than endorsing "unelectable candidates".

I mean hell, I have already looked up this candidate, that's gonna get him PR and more exposure. That is the ancillary benefit for the candidate and I understand that, but with out more circulation of the idea of these candidate surveys, I see the potential of hooking other pols as being stunted.

Hell, national money was spent, why not make a national effort?

brandon
01-27-2010, 02:57 PM
Looks like CFL has gone the way of the tea parties.

RIP CFL.

MRoCkEd
01-27-2010, 02:57 PM
I would like a strategy explanation from C4L before making judgment on this

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 02:57 PM
I demand transparency from C4L!

newbitech
01-27-2010, 02:58 PM
I would like a strategy explanation from C4L before making judgment on this

yeah no doubt there has to be something behind this other than we are promoting our surveys.

brandon
01-27-2010, 03:01 PM
I would like a strategy explanation from C4L before making judgment on this

Does it matter? Do the ends justify the means? Is spending $350,000 of donated money on promoting a pro-war neocon really something you could consider being okay?

Elwar
01-27-2010, 03:04 PM
They should have "promoted their surveys" in Kentucky with Rand Paul.

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 03:05 PM
C4L National has lost touch with the grassroots

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 03:06 PM
Looks like I will be dropping from C4L

Cowlesy
01-27-2010, 03:06 PM
I don't know if this guy is a neoconservative, but he's wrong on the Afghanistan conflict.

I'm at a loss for words that 1) Campaign for Liberty has $350,000 to burn on ads 2) John Tate sent an email a few weeks ago saying he'd have to make "tough budget decisions" because they were running on E.

wtf?

Austrian Econ Disciple
01-27-2010, 03:10 PM
C4L fail. Yeah, let's not support Schiff, Adam, RJ, Jake, or any other libertarians, but lets throw money at a FREAKING NEO-CON. Are you kidding me. DIAF C4L.

brandon
01-27-2010, 03:10 PM
In addition to being a war-mongering neocon that wants to continue a major effort in afghanistan for at least 10 more years, this Buck fellow used to be a DA and prosecuted a landmark hate crimes case.

So The CFL are officially blowing almost their entire budget to support a Neocon "Thought-Crime" prosecutor that none of us have ever even heard of.

gls
01-27-2010, 03:25 PM
Absolutely f**cking outrageous. I regret donating several times to the CFL and never will again.

JoshLowry
01-27-2010, 03:28 PM
That's a lot of money/donations.

CFaiL

Jeremy
01-27-2010, 03:35 PM
This guy used to work for Dick Cheney and is only at 15% in the primary.

FSP-Rebel
01-27-2010, 03:35 PM
Is this supposed to be some sort of early April fools joke? Not funny at all.

gls
01-27-2010, 03:41 PM
The Federal Reserve is more transparent than the CFL.

jmdrake
01-27-2010, 03:41 PM
http://kevinchiu.org/emote/facepalm.jpg

Sucky week for me. AJ goes off on his own supporters and now this. I know we want to "win over republicans" but that doesn't mean sending money to support war hawks. Adam Kokesh could have used that money. So could RJ Harris or Peter Schiff. (Rand's in good shape right now). How about an ad buy for Debra Medina?

Cowlesy
01-27-2010, 03:44 PM
I can understand the dirty tit-for-tat $5,000 PAC donations that people trade back and forth, but (@#$@##@...$350,000!?!?!?!?!?!

MRoCkEd
01-27-2010, 03:45 PM
I can understand the dirty tit-for-tat $5,000 PAC donations that people trade back and forth, but (@#$@##@...$350,000!?!?!?!?!?!
I'm really waiting for clarification on this. Hopefully the number was wrong.

rancher89
01-27-2010, 03:45 PM
As an EX- state coordinator for the C4L, I cannot imagine that this
ad campaign is what it looks like it is.....

They are always pounding the "no supporting candidates" drum.

Just sayin....we need more info, but if this is true...................:confused:

erowe1
01-27-2010, 03:45 PM
Has anyone even confirmed that this organization is the same as the Campaign for Liberty that's related to Ron Paul. It looks to me like it's something else.

ItsTime
01-27-2010, 03:46 PM
I'm really waiting for clarification on this. Hopefully the number was wrong.

yeah where are the C4L people on this?

JK/SEA
01-27-2010, 03:47 PM
Looks like C4L will fit right in at the TEAOCON convention.

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 03:47 PM
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/778667/80650836.jpg

Old Ducker
01-27-2010, 03:47 PM
This is pretty shocking. There is nothing on Buck's website that distinguishes him from any other AIPAC-pwned neocon.

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 03:48 PM
http://www.opensecrets.org/usearch/index.php?q=campaign+for+liberty&searchButt.x=0&searchButt.y=0&searchButt=Submit&cx=010677907462955562473%3Anlldkv0jvam&cof=FORID%3A11#890

angelatc
01-27-2010, 03:49 PM
Has anyone even confirmed that this organization is the same as the Campaign for Liberty that's related to Ron Paul. It looks to me like it's something else.

I think the fact that Gary Howard is speaking for the expenditure is pretty damning.

Every one of us should go put a CFL blog entry up about this very topic.

Todd
01-27-2010, 03:49 PM
Is CFL going to cease and desist with this guy? :confused:

HOLLYWOOD
01-27-2010, 03:49 PM
The candidate could be pulling the typical Jingoism and Jargon to get elected and THEN, pull a Bushy/Obozo 180 on campaign promises.

We've seen it before... so who knows what's up with this guy. What's his voting record?

He has one strike for being another Attorney into government politics...

Donations: http://www.newsmeat.com/campaign_contributions_to_politicians/donor_list.php?candidate_id=S0CO00237

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?st=CO&last=Buck&first=Kenneth

erowe1
01-27-2010, 03:50 PM
Notice what it says here:
http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2010/01/26/big-bucks-for-ken-bucks/

It’s unclear whether the “Campaign for Liberty” praising Buck is the same “Campaign for Liberty” behind Ron Paul’s 2008 presidential bid.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's not. I think people here are jumping to conclusions.

gls
01-27-2010, 03:51 PM
As an EX- state coordinator for the C4L, I cannot imagine that this
ad campaign is what it looks like it is.....

They are always pounding the "no supporting candidates" drum.

Just sayin....we need more info, but if this is true...................:confused:

Maybe the rules changed following the recent Supreme Court decision that overturned parts of McCain-Feingold?

rancher89
01-27-2010, 03:51 PM
But what about Gary Howard????

JoshLowry
01-27-2010, 03:51 PM
Has anyone even confirmed that this organization is the same as the Campaign for Liberty that's related to Ron Paul. It looks to me like it's something else.

Yes, it is confirmed. Friend of mine contacted Mr. Howard and could not get a satisfactory explanation.

This is a fuck up that may cripple the CFL. Pretty much shows it is a top down org since none of the members are deciding where their money goes.

$350,000 that could have been spent on actual liberty related projects. :mad:

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 03:52 PM
Yes, it is confirmed. Friend of mine contacted Mr. Howard and could not get a satisfactory explanation.

This is a fuck up that may cripple the CFL. Pretty much shows it is a top down org since none of the members are deciding where their money goes.

$350,000 that could have been spent on actual liberty related projects. :mad:

:(

rancher89
01-27-2010, 03:52 PM
I am so glad I stepped down last week....this is just horrible.....

erowe1
01-27-2010, 03:53 PM
I think the fact that Gary Howard is speaking for the expenditure is pretty damning.

Every one of us should go put a CFL blog entry up about this very topic.

You're right. I wasn't familiar with Gary Howard.

This is just really surprising to me.

brandon
01-27-2010, 03:53 PM
Who is the CFL infiltrator(s) that approved this expenditure?

ItsTime
01-27-2010, 03:53 PM
Yes, it is confirmed. Friend of mine contacted Mr. Howard and could not get a satisfactory explanation.

This is a fuck up that may cripple the CFL. Pretty much shows it is a top down org since none of the members are deciding where their money goes.

$350,000 that could have been spent on actual liberty related projects. :mad:

Yeah grassroots did so much better with a f#cking $400,000 blimp :rolleyes:

JoshLowry
01-27-2010, 03:55 PM
Yeah grassroots did so much better with a f#cking $400,000 blimp :rolleyes:

Apples and oranges.

At least the donators knew where their money was going - on a blimp in support of a legit liberty candidate.

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 03:55 PM
Has anyone even confirmed that this organization is the same as the Campaign for Liberty that's related to Ron Paul. It looks to me like it's something else.


Gary Howard, communications director for the Campaign For Liberty, told TPMDC that the ad is not an endorsement of Buck, but is instead intended to promote their candidate surveys. "It's not a support ad or an endorsement ad, it's just based on our candidate surveys," said Howard. "And we want every candidate to answer our surveys. So as soon as another candidate answers our survey, we'll probably do another ad stating that."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/pro-ron-paul-group-runs-ad-in-colorado-praising-senate-candidate-video.php#more


http://www.campaignforliberty.com/profile.php?member=Gary_Howard


Gary Howard
HQ
Location: Arlington, VA
Last login: 12/28/09

As a member of the communications team for the Campaign For Liberty. It is my responsibility to widely promote its message and formulate a general public affairs strategy. This entails finding strategic uses of traditional and new media technology to disseminate messages and communicate to the public.

Interesting that Gary has not been on in almost a month. Has he gone rouge?? Someone from C4L has about 24 hours to reply to this or im canceling my membership.

Also to those saying that its not a endorsement, or a support to this candidate... Its still $350,000 that could have been used on some MUCH better purposes.

pacelli
01-27-2010, 03:55 PM
Not a penny more. And Ron Paul has his name on this organization. 2.5 million that was leftover from the presidential campaign was funneled into the CFL.

So much for principles. I wish Ron didn't trust people so much. The sad part is that I seriously doubt Ron had any say at all in this bullshit.

aclove
01-27-2010, 03:56 PM
That Open Secrets link points to campaign finance reports for Campaign for Liberty from 2006, but C4L didn't even exist until after Dr. Paul suspended his presidential campaign in 2008. How is that even possible?

Original_Intent
01-27-2010, 03:57 PM
This really pisses me off. The next letter iget asking ofr donations, I am going to tell them where to stick it. This is just the exact same B.S. we are fighting against, if this is true it is clear that the CFL is only concerned about keeping the dollars flowing in and growing their organization, just like the problem with most elected candidates. Looks like a classic sell-out to me.

MRoCkEd
01-27-2010, 03:58 PM
That Open Secrets link points to campaign finance reports for Campaign for Liberty from 2006, but C4L didn't even exist until after Dr. Paul suspended his presidential campaign in 2008. How is that even possible?


The advertisement and Howard's statement show that our C4L was involved, but perhaps they got the $350,000 figure wrong?

ItsTime
01-27-2010, 03:58 PM
Apples and oranges.

At least the donators knew where their money was going - on a blimp in support of a legit liberty candidate.

Nope its not. Because Trevor used email lists not intended for their purpose (money bomb) and used it for his own ventures. Same kind of shit. Collect something (email/money) then use it for something else/unexpected.

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 03:58 PM
It is disgusting that the C4L isn't transparent with its money.

ItsTime
01-27-2010, 03:59 PM
There seems to be another "Campaign for Liberty" organization based out of Colorado.


The advertisement and Howard's statement show that our C4L was involved, but perhaps they got the $350,000 figure wrong?

So it might not be OUR C4L?

brandon
01-27-2010, 03:59 PM
This really pisses me off. The next letter iget asking ofr donations, I am going to tell them where to stick it. This is just the exact same B.S. we are fighting against, if this is true it is clear that the CFL is only concerned about keeping the dollars flowing in and growing their organization, just like the problem with most elected candidates. Looks like a classic sell-out to me.

I don't disagree, but what are they selling out for? What could they possibly gain from supporting some no-name neocon that's only at 15% in the polls? Who is this supposed to bring in?

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 04:00 PM
So it might not be OUR C4L?

http://www.opensecrets.org/usearch/index.php?q=campaign+for+liberty&searchButt.x=0&searchButt.y=0&searchButt=Submit&cx=010677907462955562473%3Anlldkv0jvam&cof=FORID%3A11#890 who knows

ItsTime
01-27-2010, 04:00 PM
I don't disagree, but what are they selling out for? What could they possibly gain from supporting some no-name neocon that's only at 15% in the polls? Who is this supposed to bring in?

To Split the neo-con vote further? lol

erowe1
01-27-2010, 04:01 PM
Every one of us should go put a CFL blog entry up about this very topic.

Good idea. I just posted one.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=31884

Bman
01-27-2010, 04:01 PM
I demand some action and accountability... IMMEDIATLY!!!

Brian4Liberty
01-27-2010, 04:02 PM
YouTube - CO pro buck ad.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R87D8DCgJcA&feature=player_embedded)

If the purpose of that ad is to promote CFL or their survey it is a major fail. Can we say "too subtle"? Is anyone with any knowledge at all about marketing involved there?

I will reserve any more negativity until more information comes out.

rancher89
01-27-2010, 04:02 PM
The advertisement and Howard's statement show that our C4L was involved, but perhaps they got the $350,000 figure wrong?

I really hope so, but they ARE involved.......and this is NOT a Liberty Candidate, so WTF??

I'm all about candidate surveys, but you don't put buy air time or roadside billboards (or whatever they advertised on) when you only have ONE candidate answer the survey. AND you don't put yourself in the position of even looking like you are supporting a candidate, any candidate.....there's something really wrong here.

gls
01-27-2010, 04:03 PM
Yeah grassroots did so much better with a f#cking $400,000 blimp :rolleyes:

Um I agree that a blimp with Ron Paul's name on it funded by individual donations specified for that purpose is "much better" than the CFL spending general donations made in the name of liberty on a candidate whom appears to be a war mongering, "hate crime" codifying establishment tool.

Brian4Liberty
01-27-2010, 04:04 PM
Yes, it is confirmed. Friend of mine contacted Mr. Howard and could not get a satisfactory explanation.

This is a fuck up that may cripple the CFL. Pretty much shows it is a top down org since none of the members are deciding where their money goes.

$350,000 that could have been spent on actual liberty related projects. :mad:

Was the $350k amount confirmed?

jmdrake
01-27-2010, 04:06 PM
Notice what it says here:
http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2010/01/26/big-bucks-for-ken-bucks/


I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's not. I think people here are jumping to conclusions.

Did you watch the ad? (It's posted in this thread a couple of pages back). If the CFL isn't behind this then they should sue whoever put the ad out for trademark infringement. :(

JK/SEA
01-27-2010, 04:07 PM
Maybe its all part of the taking over the GOP strategy..?

so far so good...

not.

ItsTime
01-27-2010, 04:08 PM
grr I cant get the video to play.

MRoCkEd
01-27-2010, 04:09 PM
Can somebody call C4L and ask (my phone is dead atm)

(703) 865-7162

sofia
01-27-2010, 04:10 PM
CFL are sons of bitches!!!!!!..."another 10 years in Afghanistan"....fuck him!

why dont CFL spend that money in AZ and CT praising Kokesh and Schiff for "returning their surveys"!!!!!!!!

Ron Paul is too trusting...just like in the campaign...he is surrounded by double agents who are wasting our money!

RCA
01-27-2010, 04:11 PM
Yesterday Alex's crap, and today this.

Facepalm.

brandon
01-27-2010, 04:12 PM
On the bright side, YAL is still an extremely promising organization that has remained ideologically pure.

jmdrake
01-27-2010, 04:12 PM
Apples and oranges.

At least the donators knew where their money was going - on a blimp in support of a legit liberty candidate.

Exactly! If you didn't like the blimp you didn't have to donate to it. And while you don't have to donate to the CFL either, I get all of the emails, letters and even some phone calls twisting my arm to donate. In the past I've been torn between donating to the CFL and giving money directly to candidates that I know are good and I know need the money. Up until now I at least thought the CFL money was being spent on good causes. This is ridiculous. There is no freakin' excuse!

JK/SEA
01-27-2010, 04:14 PM
//

Brian4Liberty
01-27-2010, 04:15 PM
...

jmdrake
01-27-2010, 04:16 PM
Nope its not. Because Trevor used email lists not intended for their purpose (money bomb) and used it for his own ventures. Same kind of shit. Collect something (email/money) then use it for something else/unexpected.

Oh please! Everytime you give your email to someone you risk being contacted again. And people always have the power of the "delete" button. If Trevor took money and diverted it to the blimp you'd have a point. But he didn't.

jclay2
01-27-2010, 04:17 PM
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! Good luck getting donations now. My guess is any new funding will dry up from now on.

Dreamofunity
01-27-2010, 04:17 PM
Disgusted...

JK/SEA
01-27-2010, 04:19 PM
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! Good luck getting donations now. My guess is any new funding will dry up from now on.

Donate directly to candidate of choice...problem solved.

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 04:19 PM
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! Good luck getting donations now. My guess is any new funding will dry up from now on.

I know I will not donate again, and it will be lucky if I stay a member.

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 04:21 PM
I hope this is a misunderstanding or something...this is not what the movement needs...

Elwar
01-27-2010, 04:22 PM
You might want to take a look at the YouTube user that posted that video (DemSenClips (http://www.youtube.com/user/DemSenClips#p/a/u/0/R87D8DCgJcA)).

They have a clip of Robert Menendez (Democrat Plan: Split the GOP (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=228365)).

And a clip of the Republican Senator being quoted saying she doesn't think the government should be involved in Health Care.

Their operatives are on the move...hold steady on this one.

phill4paul
01-27-2010, 04:22 PM
Donate directly to candidate of choice...problem solved.

+1

JK/SEA
01-27-2010, 04:24 PM
Any word forthcoming from C4L?...

Anyone call Ron yet?

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 04:24 PM
You might want to take a look at the YouTube user that posted that video (DemSenClips (http://www.youtube.com/user/DemSenClips#p/a/u/0/R87D8DCgJcA)).

They have a clip of Robert Menendez (Democrat Plan: Split the GOP (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=228365)).

And a clip of the Republican Senator being quoted saying she doesn't think the government should be involved in Health Care.

Their operatives are on the move...hold steady on this one.

what the hell is going on here????

Anti Federalist
01-27-2010, 04:25 PM
not gonna say it...

Not Gonna Say It...

NOT gonna say it...

Brian4Liberty
01-27-2010, 04:26 PM
Seems this may be to battle the NRSC. This is on the CFL website:


In Colorado, District Attorney Ken Buck, a tough prosecutor of illegal aliens, was gaining traction in his campaign for U.S. Senate. Enter John McCain. He calls Jane Norton, former Lt Governor and state chairman of his presidential bid, and convinces her to run against Buck, promising the NRSC endorsement, plenty of money, and a lock on the nomination. Le Moine Dowd, a grassroots activist, summed it up perfectly: "Do we want the NRSC deciding our candidate? Does this action by the NRSC make the primary election irrelevant? Does it make the Colorado Republican Party irrelevant?"

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=26370

JK/SEA
01-27-2010, 04:28 PM
You might want to take a look at the YouTube user that posted that video (DemSenClips (http://www.youtube.com/user/DemSenClips#p/a/u/0/R87D8DCgJcA)).

They have a clip of Robert Menendez (Democrat Plan: Split the GOP (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=228365)).

And a clip of the Republican Senator being quoted saying she doesn't think the government should be involved in Health Care.

Their operatives are on the move...hold steady on this one.

Should i go back and delete my comments yet?

Brooklyn Red Leg
01-27-2010, 04:28 PM
not gonna say it...

Not Gonna Say It...

NOT gonna say it...

Yea, I'm pretty much you with AF.....

erowe1
01-27-2010, 04:31 PM
Seems this may be to battle the NRSC:

Yeah, I came across that Bay Buchanan article too. It looks like if there's any connection between this guy and the CFL coalition, it's in the paleo-conservative wing that she represents. She put a lot of emphasis on border security in that article, which looks to be something this Buck guy emphasizes. If that's the only thing that distinguishes him from the party establishment, that's a pretty poor reason to make this kind of investment in him.

Anti Federalist
01-27-2010, 04:32 PM
Yea, I'm pretty much you with AF.....

FFS,

Head, meet brick wall, brick wall, head.

phill4paul
01-27-2010, 04:33 PM
FFS,

Head, meet brick wall, brick wall, head.


;):D

Elwar
01-27-2010, 04:34 PM
what the hell is going on here????

It's the Dem plan to split the GOP...


Showing that they’ve learned the lesson of Massachusetts, Menendez and his staff will distribute a memo Tuesday advising Democratic campaign managers to frame their opponents early — and to drive a wedge between moderate voters and tea-party-style conservatives.

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 04:34 PM
I just tried posting about this on the C4L facebook page and it was removed in less then a minute.

Something has gone very, very wrong.

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 04:37 PM
Can someone call them?

phill4paul
01-27-2010, 04:37 PM
It's the Dem plan to split the GOP...


Well if it is then it is solved by an immediate response. If true I think they could look forward to double the number of donations. If not..... R.I.P.

jclay2
01-27-2010, 04:38 PM
I just tried posting about this on the C4L facebook page and it was removed in less then a minute.

Something has gone very, very wrong.

How many salaried positions does C4L have. If there are any that pay a decent wage, I bet they are waging a full range war to keep their job right now.

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 04:40 PM
Can someone put up a C4L Transparency petition?

Michigan11
01-27-2010, 04:40 PM
Well I am f'n pissed and I gave to the CFL a few times, with all the damn letters coming to my place... No more playing around here. I'm going to drink a beer and try to relax.. No more donating to groups, just candidates. .. and if RP's name wasn't in the CFL I would never had donated.. Is there something going on here, that I'm not seeing, is it infiltrated by some crazy fuks?

erowe1
01-27-2010, 04:41 PM
How many salaried positions does C4L have. If there are any that pay a decent wage, I bet they are waging a full range war to keep their job right now.

As far as I know, it's these 14 people.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/about.php#staff

I tried googling around to find a connection between any of them and Ken Buck and nothing turned up.

Brian4Liberty
01-27-2010, 04:41 PM
Yeah, I came across that Bay Buchanan article too. It looks like if there's any connection between this guy and the CFL coalition, it's in the paleo-conservative wing that she represents. She put a lot of emphasis on border security in that article, which looks to be something this Buck guy emphasizes. If that's the only thing that distinguishes him from the party establishment, that's a pretty poor reason to make this kind of investment in him.

It seems as though they are looking to gain allies in CO based on the border security and immigration issue. That's the issue that made the majority of Republicans mad about the RINO McCain (McAmnesty). It's one of the things that made him a RINO.

It's still a lot of money for a very subtle message though, with a candidate that disagrees on a different, but important issue.

akforme
01-27-2010, 04:43 PM
This thinking is the Sarah Palin approach.

Be against the establishment, make people think she's fighting for the people, sell back to the establishment the minute you get power.

I've written them for details, if they give me that lesser of two evils bullshit, I'm gone. It's all we can do to strike back.

I never gave to c4l, I didn't really trust them.

JK/SEA
01-27-2010, 04:44 PM
This has the potential to be the biggest thread since the 'billionaire' days.

Lot of coin involved. Not good.

Austrian Econ Disciple
01-27-2010, 04:44 PM
It's the Dem plan to split the GOP...

Yes, the Democrats forced C4L to spend 350,000$ on a Neo-Con. Makes a lot of sense.....not.

C4L is dead to me. They could have easily spent this money on KOKESH WHO NEEDS IT FOR FUCKS SAKE!!! OMG This pisses me off so damn much.

Brian4Liberty
01-27-2010, 04:45 PM
It seems as though they are looking to gain allies in CO based on the border security and immigration issue. That's the issue that made the majority of Republicans mad about the RINO McCain (McAmnesty). It's one of the things that made him a RINO.

It's still a lot of money for a very subtle message though, with a candidate that disagrees on a different, but important issue.

The National Republican Senatorial Committee (NRSC) is also being opposed by Jim DeMint's Senate Conservatives Fund. I wonder...quid pro quo? Will we be seeing Rand's face promoted by the Senate Conservatives Fund?

The post on CFL:


In Colorado, District Attorney Ken Buck, a tough prosecutor of illegal aliens, was gaining traction in his campaign for U.S. Senate. Enter John McCain. He calls Jane Norton, former Lt Governor and state chairman of his presidential bid, and convinces her to run against Buck, promising the NRSC (National Republican Senatorial Committee) endorsement, plenty of money, and a lock on the nomination. Le Moine Dowd, a grassroots activist, summed it up perfectly: "Do we want the NRSC deciding our candidate? Does this action by the NRSC make the primary election irrelevant? Does it make the Colorado Republican Party irrelevant?"

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=26370

rancher89
01-27-2010, 04:46 PM
I just tried posting about this on the C4L facebook page and it was removed in less then a minute.

Something has gone very, very wrong.

my post is still there and has one comment, pretty much "WTF".....

JK/SEA
01-27-2010, 04:46 PM
Yes, the Democrats forced C4L to spend 350,000$ on a Neo-Con. Makes a lot of sense.....not.

C4L is dead to me. They could have easily spent this money on KOKESH WHO NEEDS IT FOR FUCKS SAKE!!! OMG This pisses me off so damn much.

Speaking of Kokesh. I'm going to give on his moneybomb till it hurts because of this.

jclay2
01-27-2010, 04:46 PM
This has the potential to be the biggest thread since the 'billionaire' days.

Lot of coin involved. Not good.

lol at the billionaire days

newbitech
01-27-2010, 04:50 PM
Seems this may be to battle the NRSC. This is on the CFL website:


a proxy war? If that is true then something much bigger is going on behind the scenes IMO. eessshh

Someone said it earlier about the recent Supreme Court decision. This pretty much makes political 501c3's irrelevant, no?

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 04:54 PM
my forum post on the c4l forums:

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=10584

LibertyEagle
01-27-2010, 04:54 PM
Can someone call them?

Here are their voice and fax numbers:
(703) 865-7162 (V) | (703) 865-7549 (F)

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 04:58 PM
Here are their voice and fax numbers:
(703) 865-7162 (V) | (703) 865-7549 (F)

Phone bomb tomorrow or Friday? they need to know that this is not just one or two people that are upset but a large portion of their base.

Brian4Liberty
01-27-2010, 05:05 PM
a proxy war? If that is true then something much bigger is going on behind the scenes IMO. eessshh


In addition, maybe quid pro quo for Rand (or something else) with the Senate Conservatives Fund...

AJ Antimony
01-27-2010, 05:06 PM
This is too weird to be true.

I'm calling FAKE

Annihilia
01-27-2010, 05:08 PM
This is seriously fucked. Someone has to step down / lose their position over this.

Incredible.

devil21
01-27-2010, 05:11 PM
I dont like this any more than you guys do but don't jump to conclusions and wash your hands of the CFL entirely just yet. Someone may very well have gotten into the organization and was bought off to try to turn CFL into another Tea Party(tm) group. Our best bet is to figure out if this indeed being accurately represented (not just media spin), who this turncoat is, and use our own power to get them OUT of the CFL.

Unfortunately it is a reminder of how fragile organizations like the CFL are and that no one plays fair in politics. We can't rely on a single organization to represent us, ever.

MsDoodahs
01-27-2010, 05:12 PM
Some of you are good detectives.

Let's get to work, shall we?

Who are the top CFL dogs?

The only names I know are John Tate, Michael Rothfeld, Debbie Hopper....I'm sure you guys can add a few more.

Where is the COMMON point with the candidate they lavished money onto?

What organizations IN THEIR PASTS do they have in common?

Find those.

Follow the history of the people - find their connections.

Don't get me wrong, CFL toasted their OWN ass with this bonehead move. I seriously doubt they will ever recover.

MsDoodahs
01-27-2010, 05:13 PM
This is too weird to be true.

I'm calling FAKE

Not fake.

It has been confirmed to at least one mod by CFL.

LittleLightShining
01-27-2010, 05:13 PM
Think nationally act locally. If you have good people on the ground in your state C4L chapters, please don't withhold funds and/or support from them.

LibertyEagle
01-27-2010, 05:15 PM
I dont like this any more than you guys do but don't jump to conclusions and wash your hands of the CFL entirely just yet. Someone may very well have gotten into the organization and was bought off to try to turn CFL into another Tea Party(tm) group. Our best bet is to figure out if this indeed being accurately represented (not just media spin), who this turncoat is, and use our own power to get them OUT of the CFL.

Unfortunately it is a reminder of how fragile organizations like the CFL are and that no one plays fair in politics. We can't rely on a single organization to represent us, ever.

I agree with this.

Before I go further, I want the full skinny on this whole deal.

devil21
01-27-2010, 05:15 PM
Also, Ron HIMSELF should be personally notified of this. After all, he did start the organization and it represents his views, which certainly are not pro-war.

Anybody know if his staffer, Rachel, still posts on this board or have her direct contact info? I know you mods have to have some sort of direct line to her, right?

erowe1
01-27-2010, 05:16 PM
Some of you are good detectives.

Let's get to work, shall we?

Who are the top CFL dogs?

The only names I know are John Tate, Michael Rothfeld, Debbie Hopper....I'm sure you guys can add a few more.

Where is the COMMON point with the candidate they lavished money onto?

What organizations IN THEIR PASTS do they have in common?

Find those.

Follow the history of the people - find their connections.

Don't get me wrong, CFL toasted their OWN ass with this bonehead move. I seriously doubt they will ever recover.

There are 14 people on this list.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/about.php#staff
If a connection exists like you're talking about, I would start with them. My googling of all their names one-by-one with "ken buck" turned up nothing.

However, as a nonprofit, doesn't CFL also have to have a board of directors aside from it's paid staff? If so, who's on that? And don't they have to have some kind of financial reports that are available somehow?

Knightskye
01-27-2010, 05:17 PM
"Isn't a career politician."
"He'll take on D.C. insiders."
"A leader in fighting Obama's healthcare takeover, reducing taxes and stopping out-of-control government spending."
"Championing Colorado conservative values."

Just don't say "It's not an endorsement video". All of these things about a candidate in a GOP primary, but it's not to endorse him or promote his candidacy.

LibertyEagle
01-27-2010, 05:18 PM
Also, Ron HIMSELF should be personally notified of this. After all, he did start the organization and it represents his views, which certainly are not pro-war.

Anybody know if his staffer, Rachel, still posts on this board or have her direct contact info? I know you mods have to have some sort of direct line to her, right?

She was in chat the other evening. So, yes, she still comes here.

AJ Antimony
01-27-2010, 05:18 PM
Not fake.

It has been confirmed to at least one mod by CFL.

Don't be too specific!

So CFL spent $350,000 on ONE candidate? $350,000 for an ad that does nothing more than say some guy said ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL that he's going to do some things to 'shrink' government? THIS is confirmed by your source?

erowe1
01-27-2010, 05:20 PM
Just don't say "It's not an endorsement video". All of these things about a candidate in a GOP primary, but it's not to endorse him or promote his candidacy.

Seriously. CFL could have just put out a press release at no cost giving him credit for taking the survey, and then if he wanted to use that for advertising at his own campaign's expense he could have. And I bet that if it did happen that way, his ad would be a lot like this one, only his own campaign funds would be paying for it and not CFL.

brandon
01-27-2010, 05:21 PM
Ron better personally get involved and make sure several salaried people lose their jobs over this, including John Tate. That's the only hope of saving the organization. Otherwise people just aren't going to donate anymore.

devil21
01-27-2010, 05:24 PM
She was in chat the other evening. So, yes, she still comes here.

What's her handle? I can't recall it at the moment.

rp08orbust
01-27-2010, 05:32 PM
There are 14 people on this list.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/about.php#staff
If a connection exists like you're talking about, I would start with them. My googling of all their names one-by-one with "ken buck" turned up nothing.

However, as a nonprofit, doesn't CFL also have to have a board of directors aside from it's paid staff? If so, who's on that? And don't they have to have some kind of financial reports that are available somehow?

Debra Medina is the only board member I know of.

Elm
01-27-2010, 05:36 PM
I demand transparency from C4L!

Good luck with that.

At the national convention when it formed we were promised the ability to vote and ratify the bylaws. When we got there we were given no bylaws. Has anyone seen bylaws - has the grassroots ever ratified any?

brandon
01-27-2010, 05:37 PM
Good luck with that.

At the national convention when it formed we were promised the ability to vote and ratify the bylaws. When we got there we were given no bylaws. Has anyone seen bylaws - has the grassroots ever ratified any?

Nope. I was at the original national convention in MN as well. The whole thing seemed kind of fishy to begin with. I've never trusted John Tate.

LibertyEagle
01-27-2010, 05:38 PM
What's her handle? I can't recall it at the moment.

ladyjade3

gls
01-27-2010, 05:38 PM
Debra Medina is the only board member I know of.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/boardofdirectors.php

It looks like Ron Paul's son Ronnie is "Chairman of the Board" and his son-in-law Jesse Benton is "Senior Vice President".

Why hire based on experience and competence when nepotism works just as well? :rolleyes:

LibertyEagle
01-27-2010, 05:40 PM
Don't be too specific!

So CFL spent $350,000 on ONE candidate? $350,000 for an ad that does nothing more than say some guy said ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL that he's going to do some things to 'shrink' government? THIS is confirmed by your source?

No. I did not ask C4L how much they spent and whether it was spent on one candidate or a number of candidates. The only number I've seen was published by that paper, or whatever it was.

Brian4Liberty
01-27-2010, 05:42 PM
It could be worse. :o Here's another candidate (Tom Wiens) in that Primary race...


http://www.tomwiens.com/issues/details.asp?Issue_Id=11

Foreign policy

Nothing threatens the stability of the world more than the possibility of a nuclear-armed Iran. And make no mistake; Iran's nuclear program is aimed at one thing: developing nuclear weapons. Iran's leader has said that Israel must be wiped off the map. A nuclear armed Iran with aggressive intentions against one of the most faithful and staunch of U.S. allies should be a matter of grave concern. The U.S. should consider sanctions, and other means, including military means to stop Iran from threatening its neighbors, especially our ally Israel.

http://www.tomwiens.com/issues/details.asp?Issue_Id=10

War in Iraq and Afghanistan

We can't allow states like Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia to become threats to free commerce and the safety and security of the world. The only thing extremist terrorists understand is force. The pattern has been established: when the US remains firm in dealing with terror, terrorism recedes; when the US vacillates, then terror moves boldly forward. Our surge strategy in Iraq worked, but we must demand that in every military action that the American people fully understand the necessity of our action and what our strategy is to win. We can fight wars by half measures. It's not right to put our soldiers in harm's way, when the politicians themselves have no clear strategy for victory.

RedStripe
01-27-2010, 05:46 PM
CFL, along with a lot of the Ron Paul movement, is getting too swept up in the GOP/FOX/Glenn Beck moronic portion of the right wing. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Edit: not to mention the Leadership Institute /barf

phill4paul
01-27-2010, 05:47 PM
It could be worse. :o

I've bowed out of the lesser of two evils dogma.;)

devil21
01-27-2010, 05:47 PM
ladyjade3

Thank you. I PMed her about this. Hopefully she can get RP himself directly involved and get to the bottom of this. Our hands are somewhat tied...:(

purplechoe
01-27-2010, 05:48 PM
well, that's a shame... can't say I'm surprised... I decided not to give them any more money a couple of months ago...

I wish I was wrong about everything, but pretty much 99% of the things swirling around in my head usually are confirmed to be true...

Tina Richards
01-27-2010, 05:49 PM
Here at the Kokesh campaign, we haven't received our survey yet. Looking forward to fill it out.

phill4paul
01-27-2010, 05:50 PM
CFL, along with a lot of the Ron Paul movement, is getting too swept up in the GOP/FOX/Glenn Beck moronic portion of the right wing. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Agree 100%. Once again I've had to accept the lesser of two evils dogma and the "there is only two parties" diatribe.

I'll finish up what I've committed to this campaign cycle. After that...no more.

JK/SEA
01-27-2010, 05:51 PM
Here at the Kokesh campaign, we haven't received a survey or asked to fill one out.

That could be a good thing.

Stay tuned.

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 05:52 PM
Here at the Kokesh campaign, we haven't received our survey yet. Looking forward to fill it out.

All too telling. C4L is not trying to help Liberty Candidates.

rancher89
01-27-2010, 05:57 PM
I'm thinking that this is what happened--I'm just guessing

1) The local/state C4L prepared a "candidate survey."
2) This guy took the survey.
3) He's now using the C4L survey, with logo, to promote his candidacy, without C4L approval.

rancher89
01-27-2010, 05:58 PM
The $350K might how much it cost to come up with the survey, print it and distribute it.

Sounds pretty expensive though.....

devil21
01-27-2010, 05:59 PM
I'm thinking that this is what happened--I'm just guessing

1) The local/state C4L prepared a "candidate survey."
2) This guy took the survey.
3) He's now using the C4L survey, with logo, to promote his candidacy, without C4L approval.

That may be true. But I also know that I've been receiving a bunch of "spam" emails from random GOP candidates around the country that I never signed up for. Few, if any, of them have any sort of Liberty platform bona-fides on their websites.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=222468


Someone is trying to sell us out.

eok321
01-27-2010, 06:00 PM
Can anybody give me a brief run down of the last 145posts-is CFL endorsing/funding candidates that support undeclared wars?

purplechoe
01-27-2010, 06:00 PM
All too telling. C4L is not trying to help Liberty Candidates.

Screw them, I've been saving some cash for our man in New Mexico and the great dame in Texas. Lets make Feb 1st & 2nd days to remember!!!

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 06:02 PM
I'm thinking that this is what happened--I'm just guessing

1) The local/state C4L prepared a "candidate survey."
2) This guy took the survey.
3) He's now using the C4L survey, with logo, to promote his candidacy, without C4L approval.

Nope; it was fully supported and funded by the C4L


Gary Howard, communications director for the Campaign For Liberty, told TPMDC that the ad is not an endorsement of Buck, but is instead intended to promote their candidate surveys. "It's not a support ad or an endorsement ad, it's just based on our candidate surveys," said Howard. "And we want every candidate to answer our surveys. So as soon as another candidate answers our survey, we'll probably do another ad stating that."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/pro-ron-paul-group-runs-ad-in-colorado-praising-senate-candidate-video.php#more

newbitech
01-27-2010, 06:03 PM
I'm thinking that this is what happened--I'm just guessing

1) The local/state C4L prepared a "candidate survey."
2) This guy took the survey.
3) He's now using the C4L survey, with logo, to promote his candidacy, without C4L approval.


So C4L rewards him with 15% of the left over record presidential online grassroots single day fund raising money bomb we started the damn tea parties money?

nahh..

I think the proxy war opinion holds some credibility. Family Feud so to speak. The establishment is pushing Grayson to dislodge Rand, and some backroom dealing is going on.

The only reason I would think that the money went to CO instead of KY is if Rand's campaign is already bracing for defeat.

Regardless, it seems like a HUGE gamble and I am struggling to see how this large a sum of money being directed to battle the GOP on this front with an "unelectable" candidate has any odds of bearing fruit.

It seems like a desperate move, and with what I have observed from the C4L, entrenching within the Republican party seems to be a strategy. What a way to dig in eh??

eeeesshhhh.//

devil21
01-27-2010, 06:04 PM
Can anybody give me a brief run down of the last 145posts-is CFL endorsing/funding candidates that support undeclared wars?

It's not entirely clear what is going on but it appears that tv ads in Colorado have been paid for by the CFL and feature a pro-war candidate. Still very much developing and a lot of fact finding still left to be done so don't jump to conclusions. Emails to the CFL (I sent to Tate personally) and phone calls are a start to getting this clarified and acted upon.

JK/SEA
01-27-2010, 06:04 PM
Screw them, I've been saving some cash for our man in New Mexico and the great dame in Texas. Lets make Feb 1st & 2nd days to remember!!!

Yep..double barrel shot gun blast.

newbitech
01-27-2010, 06:07 PM
Can anybody give me a brief run down of the last 145posts-is CFL endorsing/funding candidates that support undeclared wars?


Well first of all according to C4L's website, they are not allowed to endorse ANY candidate.

next its 350k from the C4L coffers that went to buy 1 ad.

and also, no one really knows anything about these candidate survey's as it was not a national project. The ad spot is a subtle reference to some survey that the ad is supposedly praising the candidate for. The communication director denies that ad is an endorsement which is laughable.

The GOP is endorsing the candidate's opponent apparently.

Why is this money not being spent on candidates that Ron Paul's PAC actively supports?

It appears there is absolutely NO coordination however subtle between the PAC the CORP and the grassroot's individual members.

Something stinks..

I'd like to get a confirmation on that number as well. 350k is no small potatoes.

Elm
01-27-2010, 06:09 PM
Nope. I was at the original national convention in MN as well. The whole thing seemed kind of fishy to begin with. I've never trusted John Tate.


They even cut off the mic of that guy Frank when he asked about the bylaws.

MsDoodahs
01-27-2010, 06:13 PM
I am sitting on my hands here.

I am really REALLY angry.

Epic
01-27-2010, 06:15 PM
CFL should choose which projects to fund by having a poll on their website.

The organization is run in such an unlibertarian manner.

Pepsi
01-27-2010, 06:15 PM
A group called Campaign for Liberty is spending almost $350,000 on ads touting Ken Buck’s GOP Senate campaign.

“Career politicians are stealing our liberty and bankrupting our country,” the ad begins. “But Republican U.S. Senate candidate Ken Buck isn’t a career politician. He’s a tough prosecutor who will take on the D.C. insiders.”

It’s unclear whether the “Campaign for Liberty” praising Buck is the same “Campaign for Liberty” behind Ron Paul’s 2008 presidential bid.

Buck’s campaign consultant, Walt Klein, said the group didn’t contact the campaign first, which is the norm these days. Outside groups accounted for $2 out of every $3 spent in ads in the 2008 U.S. Senate race, Klein said.

Most of those ads were of the slash-burn-attack variety, but the latest ad is full of praise for Buck.

“Thank Ken Buck for choosing Colorado conservative values,” the ad says and urges other candidates in the race to fill out a Campaign for Liberty survey.

Buck faces former Lt. Gov. Jane Norton, retired businessman Cleve Tidwell and former state lawmaker Tom Wiens in the GOP Senate primary.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2010/01/26/big-bucks-for-ken-bucks/

Brian4Liberty
01-27-2010, 06:15 PM
Here's another candidate in that Primary, Jane Norton. Her official issues page makes zero mention of foreign policy or terrorism, but there is a Google cache of an old interview.

She doesn't mention TARP, and her association with McCain would make a person guess she supported it, and that's why she doesn't mention it.

It seems that McCain's support has rubbed some people the wrong way (Bay Buchanan, Tom Tancredo).

Her issues page:
http://www.janenortonforcolorado.com/issues

Here's the "missing" answer on foreign policy from Google cache. Seems she doesn't want to address this issue any more (no doubt McCain and Bill Kristol can fill her in at a later time).



http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:VU0RuvGBl-kJ:blogs.adcorepublicans.com/2009/11/10/us-senate-candidate-jane-norton-answers-questionnaire/+Jane+Norton+foreign+policy&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

13. What do you think is the most pressing foreign policy problem facing this country and what do you think the federal government should do about it?

There is no shortage of problems facing our Nation internationally, from the struggle for democracy in Honduras to the emergence of a nuclear Iran. But I believe the most compelling foreign policy issue we face right now is the war in Afghanistan. Our ultimate goal is to defeat the Taliban, suppress al Qaeda, and foster stability in Pakistan. We cannot pull out prematurely, forsake our allies, and allow a terrorist haven to once again flourish. We must listen to our commanders on the ground and not pursue a half-hearted strategy that makes political expediency rather than military victory the goal.

Apparently Tom Tancredo wasn't thrilled about McCain coming in and "sponsoring" a candidate:



http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2009/09/tom_tancredo_jane_norton_--_an.php

In an article by ace Denver Post reporter Lynn Bartels, former Congressman Tom Tancredo unloads on fellow Republican (and former Colorado Lieutenant Governor) Jane Norton, saying the only reason she'll be announcing a Senate run later today is because she was talked into it by Arizona Senator and recent presidential nominee John McCain. "Does John McCain have a right to do that? Sure. Do I have a right to bitch about it? You bet," Tancredo told Bartels. "Jane Norton is a nice lady who I like. End of story. But I fear she is not ready for prime time."

MRoCkEd
01-27-2010, 06:15 PM
Several of the C4L people are looking into this.
We should have more information tomorrow.

eok321
01-27-2010, 06:17 PM
Thanks Devil & Newbitech.

This is serious shit:o

JK/SEA
01-27-2010, 06:17 PM
I am sitting on my hands here.

I am really REALLY angry.

I hear you. If you want, i'll offer myself up to be banned for awhile...:D

hugs...

purplechoe
01-27-2010, 06:22 PM
I am sitting on my hands here.

I am really REALLY angry.

I know the feeling... I had it when Peter said to bomb Iran and the thread was quickly moved to hot topics as well as when it was allowed to promote Scott Brown's money bomb on here... :mad: :o :( :confused:

devil21
01-27-2010, 06:23 PM
Buck's campaign site: http://buckforcolorado.com/issues102k9.php

Overall he's not terrible, at least he mentions civil liberties and supports Audit the Fed, but not a word about following the Constitution. The rest looks like typical GOP talking points though.

On Iraq/Afghanistan:

As Colorado's Senator I will always look first to the advice of the generals, and I will strongly support the mission of our troops who are in harm's way.

^^^^
That's where the big problem is.

Knightskye
01-27-2010, 06:23 PM
I know the feeling... I had it when Peter said to bomb Iran and the thread was quickly moved to hot topics as well as when it was allowed to promote Scott Brown's money bomb on here... :mad: :o :( :confused:

Scott Brown is a turd.

He has a nice truck and a cute daughter, but he's a turd.

LibertyEagle
01-27-2010, 06:32 PM
I know the feeling... I had it when Peter said to bomb Iran and the thread was quickly moved to hot topics as well as when it was allowed to promote Scott Brown's money bomb on here... :mad: :o :( :confused:

Then, you will want to talk to the forum owner, Josh.

johnrocks
01-27-2010, 06:36 PM
I don't believe for a second it is our CFL, if it is, not one dine more from me.

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 06:37 PM
I don't believe for a second it is our CFL, if it is, not one dine more from me.

Sadly if you go back though the thread you will find several quotes direct from the C4L Communications Director.

MsDoodahs
01-27-2010, 06:38 PM
Thanks, you guys.

Stay tuned, you'll have a much clearer picture as to why this has me extra, super sized angry shortly...

johnrocks
01-27-2010, 06:40 PM
"Campaign for Liberty" Spending $350,000 On Buck

An ad run on behalf of Senate candidate Ken Buck is the most important of the three developments. A group calling itself the "Campaign for Liberty" (this is not necessarily Ron Paul's group, C4L is a 501c4 and is barred from running candidate ads) has purchased $350,000 of ad time focusing on Ken Buck's candidacy. These ads reportedly began running during local news programs earlier this evening and we are seeking a copy of the commercial to upload as soon as we can.

While Buck's fundraising has faltered in the last quarter and Jane Norton (who was not without fundraising issues of her own) has a modest lead after Q4 2009, Buck is poised to have a great deal of cash spent on his behalf by outside groups. In addition to national groups such as the Senate Conservatives Fund eyeing the race, certain interests based in Northern Colorado are preparing their own outside efforts on Buck's behalf.
http://www.rockymountainright.com/?q=taxonomy/term/228

I don't think it's our CFL

purplechoe
01-27-2010, 06:40 PM
Then, you will want to talk to the forum owner, Josh.

Just ask yourself, how is that much different than what is being talked about in this thread?

Do people understand the meaning of the word "hypocrisy"?

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/F/i/1/tp_hypocrisy.jpg

johnrocks
01-27-2010, 06:41 PM
Sadly if you go back though the thread you will find several quotes direct from the C4L Communications Director.

Then he needs to be fired:mad:

anaconda
01-27-2010, 06:42 PM
Maybe it's a different "Campaign For Liberty?"..The article says it was not clear if the two were the same...

gls
01-27-2010, 06:43 PM
I don't think it's our CFL

It definitely is. The Talking Points Memo (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/pro-ron-paul-group-runs-ad-in-colorado-praising-senate-candidate-video.php) article quotes Gary Howard as communications director for the Campaign For Liberty. Here is Gary Howard's CFL profile: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/profile.php?member=Gary_Howard

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 06:44 PM
Nope; it was fully supported and funded by the C4L


"Campaign for Liberty" Spending $350,000 On Buck

An ad run on behalf of Senate candidate Ken Buck is the most important of the three developments. A group calling itself the "Campaign for Liberty" (this is not necessarily Ron Paul's group, C4L is a 501c4 and is barred from running candidate ads) has purchased $350,000 of ad time focusing on Ken Buck's candidacy. These ads reportedly began running during local news programs earlier this evening and we are seeking a copy of the commercial to upload as soon as we can.

While Buck's fundraising has faltered in the last quarter and Jane Norton (who was not without fundraising issues of her own) has a modest lead after Q4 2009, Buck is poised to have a great deal of cash spent on his behalf by outside groups. In addition to national groups such as the Senate Conservatives Fund eyeing the race, certain interests based in Northern Colorado are preparing their own outside efforts on Buck's behalf.
http://www.rockymountainright.com/?q=taxonomy/term/228

I don't think it's our CFL


Maybe it's a different "Campaign For Liberty?"..The article says it was not clear if the two were the same...


It definitely is. The Talking Points Memo (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/pro-ron-paul-group-runs-ad-in-colorado-praising-senate-candidate-video.php) article quotes Gary Howard as communications director for the Campaign For Liberty. Here is Gary Howard's CFL profile: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/profile.php?member=Gary_Howard

It has been confirmed to be C4L

LibertyEagle
01-27-2010, 06:46 PM
Just ask yourself, how is that much different than what is being talked about in this thread?

Do people understand the meaning of the word "hypocrisy"?



Oh geez, purplechoe. I told you that, because Josh had made the decision (in fact he posted about it) about keeping the candidate forums positive and helpful. I can't remember who it was that made the decision about the Brown threads, but as I recall, it was an Admin. Also as I recall, it was decided to leave them there because so many long-time RP supporters appeared to be behind him and that the election was going to be over in a couple of days. We're in the process of deciding how best to handle these non-liberty candidate deals in the future.

Anti Federalist
01-27-2010, 06:47 PM
...this has me extra, super sized angry shortly...

Lot of that running around lately.

Welcome to my world.;)

ronpaulhawaii
01-27-2010, 06:54 PM
have to run to a SOTU thing with Adam. While getting to the bottom of this important topic, please keep in mind our visible enemies...

http://rense.com/1.imagesH/swear_dees2.jpg

johnrocks
01-27-2010, 06:55 PM
Confirmed so now what?:mad:

LittleLightShining
01-27-2010, 06:55 PM
It seems as though they are looking to gain allies in CO based on the border security and immigration issue. That's the issue that made the majority of Republicans mad about the RINO McCain (McAmnesty). It's one of the things that made him a RINO.

It's still a lot of money for a very subtle message though, with a candidate that disagrees on a different, but important issue.This is what happens when you hire a guy who doesn't agree with our foreign policy. Does Michael Rothfeld ring a bell? When I started asking questions HERE about the new C4L push to take over the GOP, and complaining about Rothfeld's derision of the education part of the C4L mission, Debbie Hopper contacted my state coordinator and asked him why I'm still a county coordinator. She wanted me gone. He said no.

Shortly after (later that day or the day after, I can't remember now) I spoke with Debbie on the phone and asked more questions. Apparently she hired* him in 94 to present a lecture at the Constitution Party conference. (I can't help but wonder if his political strategy is so good why the CP isn't more successful by now.) On a side note there is a connection between Tate and Rothfeld via the Leadership Institute. (Again, let's remember Tate's omission of foreign policy during his 9/12 speech.)

Hopper told me that he is a "cold warrior" and not supportive of the C4L's foreign policy position. I was told that he doesn't set political agenda or policy for C4L (just sends out frantic GOP talking point solicitations and directs strategy-- taking over the GOP). I was told that it shouldn't matter if he agrees with our principles. At which point my jaw dropped and I was ready to bang my head against the wall. In a nutshell I was told that there is no one out there who can fundraise or strategize that agrees with all of the guiding principles of C4L.

On another side not it was not until AFTER I started asking all these questions and telling Hopper that they haven't said a word about foreign policy OR the Patriot Act in the mailers that were being sent out did the Patriot Act become one of the choices as to what C4L should focus attention on. BECAUSE Rothfeld is not only the guy teaching strategy at the conferences but is the mastermind behind the mailers.

Anyway, it was after that I decided to ask my state coordinator to demote me from County Coordinator to Local Coordinator. As a County Coordinator I am not supposed to speak about C4L in any way that might be considered negative and I do not wear a muzzle well.


*Hopper said she didn't "hire" him she "used" him at a conference.

FrankRep
01-27-2010, 07:00 PM
Campaign for Liberty made a serious error, but give them another chance before abandoning them.

Mistakes and misjudgments will happen.

johnrocks
01-27-2010, 07:01 PM
I just send Gary Howard a message, perhaps we all need to, be civil but ask if it is true and express your concern and opposition!

jabf2006
01-27-2010, 07:02 PM
Campaign for Liberty made a serious error, but give them another chance before abandoning them.

Mistakes and misjudgments will happen.

This is a pretty big mistake and misjudgment. They don't get another chance unless they publicly provide a full and detailed explanation as to what happened, and remove those accountable. This movement cannot afford to waste $350,000 on war-monger. Too many good people trying to scrape cash together to run competitive campaigns.

johnrocks
01-27-2010, 07:04 PM
Campaign for Liberty made a serious error, but give them another chance before abandoning them.

Mistakes and misjudgments will happen.

Touche' but $350000 is a lot of money from a new movement, that is some serious money going to a candidate that supports something that made me abandon the GOP in the first place.:mad:

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 07:08 PM
Campaign for Liberty made a serious error, but give them another chance before abandoning them.

Mistakes and misjudgments will happen.

It will take a lot of ACTION and not just talk to even begin a process of earning my trust back. Some heads need to roll. there needs to be a complete open review of the C4L finances, projects, and establish a grassroots committee that directly works on things.

MsDoodahs
01-27-2010, 07:10 PM
Campaign for Liberty made a serious error, but give them another chance before abandoning them.

Mistakes and misjudgments will happen.

I could believe that if it were a $10,000 mistake.

$350,000 is WAY BEYOND a "mistake" or "misjudgement."

It is a frikken DISGRACE and HEADS MUST ROLL.

Reason
01-27-2010, 07:10 PM
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=10584

MsDoodahs
01-27-2010, 07:11 PM
some heads need to roll. There needs to be a complete open review of the c4l finances, projects, and establish a grassroots committee that directly works on things.

^^^this.^^^

johnrocks
01-27-2010, 07:11 PM
It will take a lot of ACTION and not just talk to even begin a process of earning my trust back. Some heads need to roll. there needs to be a complete open review of the C4L finances, projects, and establish a grassroots committee that directly works on things.

I agree, it's not like we are talking about a minor issue, we're talking about a core issue;the center piece issue that brought so many with various ideologies together in the first place.

Reason
01-27-2010, 07:12 PM
Campaign for Liberty
5211 Port Royal Road, Suite 310
Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: (703) 865-7162
Fax: (703) 865-7549

johnrocks
01-27-2010, 07:14 PM
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=10584

I just commented as well as send the director a message:mad:

nobody's_hero
01-27-2010, 07:16 PM
RPF 1207, Audit the Campaign for Liberty

I will not be donating another dime to the CFL until they agree to disclose ALL expenditures so that I can see exactly how my donations are being spent.

brandon
01-27-2010, 07:16 PM
Thanks, you guys.

Stay tuned, you'll have a much clearer picture as to why this has me extra, super sized angry shortly...

Don't tease us! I'm dieing to know.

FrankRep
01-27-2010, 07:16 PM
Campaign for Liberty better release a statement soon. They better fire the problem and reorganize quick.

Reason
01-27-2010, 07:18 PM
TURN UP THE HEAT @ THE C4L FORUMS IMO

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=10584 (http://www.campaignforliberty.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=10584)

eok321
01-27-2010, 07:20 PM
For what its worth i sent this

"A group called Campaign for Liberty is spending almost $350,000 on ads touting Ken Buck’s GOP Senate campaign.

What is this?"

to

john.f.tate@campaignforliberty.com

someperson
01-27-2010, 07:21 PM
If I had expectations for this group, I might have been disappointed. Once a group labels itself, or an organization titles itself, it exposes itself to manipulation. Stop representing groups, stop allowing groups to represent you. Represent yourself as an individual. I believe that individuals coordinating for a cause should do so without a collective name. A nameless set of individuals is infinitely more difficult to manipulate.

Resource misallocations, like this, must be avoided in the future. Donations should be made directly to candidates, whenever possible. If, for a non-candidate-related project, resources must be pooled, it should be done via one-shot chip-ins and not permanent organizations.

Incidentally, it would be great to see more candidates providing the donor with the option of "voting" for projects with their funds. The candidate could create a few ads, for example, and give the donor the option of either directing their funds to that which they liked best, or leaving it up to the management's discretion.

I saw something like this on Schiff's donation form; I'm not sure how prevalent it is among other liberty candidates, but it would be nice if such a system were to become the norm. Ideally, a per project donation tally could be presented so that each individual donor can decide where to best allocate their resources. This transparency would help to avoid situations where important things become underfunded.

I apologize for the rant; I hope some of these ideas resonate with someone.

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 07:22 PM
Phone bomb tomorrow or Friday? they need to know that this is not just one or two people that are upset but a large portion of their base.

Let's get this planned for Friday. If they fix things tomorrow then we will hold off otherwise its phone bomb time.

MRoCkEd
01-27-2010, 07:24 PM
Let's get this planned for Friday. If they fix things tomorrow then we will hold off otherwise its phone bomb time.
alright

LittleLightShining
01-27-2010, 07:24 PM
For the record, this (neo-con infiltration) is something I've been concerned about for a long time, which is what prompted acptulsa to post this thread last June.http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=195170

eok321
01-27-2010, 07:31 PM
For the record, this (neo-con infiltration) is something I've been concerned about for a long time, which is what prompted acptulsa to post this thread last June.http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=195170

O.k i do agree there are infiltrators.. but who in the freakin hell o.k's 350,000 of peoples money. I mean seriously:(

MsDoodahs
01-27-2010, 07:32 PM
Don't tease us! I'm dieing to know.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2514182&postcount=180

Alarm bells were going off IN JUNE.

ItsTime
01-27-2010, 07:33 PM
For the record, this (neo-con infiltration) is something I've been concerned about for a long time, which is what prompted acptulsa to post this thread last June.http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=195170

My guess is it wont last long.


Anyone from Campaign For Liberty out there and looking to replace some people contact me. I need a job ;)

Reason
01-27-2010, 07:35 PM
Does Ron Paul's staff have anything to do with C4L at all?

jmdrake
01-27-2010, 07:35 PM
Well where I stand is in my sig. In 2012 if I wake up an realize that all I've accomplished is helping the GOP wing of the RepubliCrat party get back in office I will be mighty upset.

Austrian Econ Disciple
01-27-2010, 07:39 PM
Goddamnit. See this is why we need some litmus test. #1 Sound Currency #2 Strict Non-Interventionism #3 Laissez-Faire Misesian/Rothbardian Austrianism #4 Natural Law/Private Property Lockean principles #5 Anti-Central Banking and Anti-ALL regulation

Goddamnit this pisses me off to no end. We can EASILY replace these bumbling nitwits with REAL LOCKEAN/AUSTRIAN LIBERTARIANS! GRRRRR. CFL is a fucking waste of resources.

erowe1
01-27-2010, 07:40 PM
Does Ron Paul's staff have anything to do with C4L at all?

Jesse Benton is involved in both RP's staff and CFL I believe.

newbitech
01-27-2010, 07:45 PM
O.k i do agree there are infiltrators.. but who in the freakin hell o.k's 350,000 of peoples money. I mean seriously:(

a corporate director

nobody's_hero
01-27-2010, 07:46 PM
My guess is it wont last long.


Anyone from Campaign For Liberty out there and looking to replace some people contact me. I need a job ;)

Hell, the worst part is that from day one when the CFL was commissioned by Ron Paul, we've had VOLUNTEERS willing to carry out some of the website management duties, but there was an insistence on the inside that certain chosen-ones be paid to do a task that they do half-heartedly. :(

ItsTime
01-27-2010, 07:49 PM
Hell, the worst part is that from day one when the CFL was commissioned by Ron Paul, we've had VOLUNTEERS willing to carry out some of the website management duties, but there was an insistence on the inside that certain chosen-ones be paid to do a task that they do half-heartedly. :(

Yeah exactly.

Ricky201
01-27-2010, 07:50 PM
Unfreakin' real. I've donated at least 150-200 dollars to them in the past 6 months. Well I guess I learned my lesson to donating money to an organization.

Tar and feathers anyone?

LittleLightShining
01-27-2010, 07:51 PM
does ron paul's staff have anything to do with c4l at all?

Debbie Hopper was in charge of the pcc.

specsaregood
01-27-2010, 07:53 PM
So this is what it feels like to realize you have been co-opted? It's kinda like this time I got talked into going out to some new club, got drunk and woke up with a strange pain in my rectum.....

TheState
01-27-2010, 07:54 PM
What really makes me mad is that instead of planning on ways to help candidates we like on this forum, we have to waste time dealing with stupid crap like this.

I hate infighting when it's over small issues, but this is a HUGE issue and could be a major distraction when we need to be focused on upcoming elections.

I seriously wonder what the C4L is thinking sometimes (and this isn't the first time I've thought that). What exactly has all this money we have given to them done? I see way more results from people on this forum than I do from them.

nobody's_hero
01-27-2010, 07:55 PM
Yeah exactly.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't mind people being compensated for their time, if they do a decent job. But, for my money, I'd like to see results. If they were doing it for free, of course, I wouldn't expect much, other than for them to turn it over to someone else with more time and more dedication if others present themselves willing and able to do the task.

Side note:

The CFL webpage loads slow as hell for me. Anyone else have that problem? I see something in the bottom-left of my I.E. web browser that shows a rediculous number of items left: (438 items remaining), and starts counting down. Sometimes it completely freezes up and I have to ctrl-alt-delete to get out of internet explorer, but it could just be some settings I need to change. Yet, it only happens on the Campaign for Liberty website, and is really noticeable when I try to read blogs/edit my own blog/check messages, etc.. :confused:

johnrocks
01-27-2010, 07:55 PM
So this is what it feels like to realize you have been co-opted? It's kinda like this time I got talked into going out to some new club, got drunk and woke up with a strange pain in my rectum.....

:p, I really hope that this is just a bad rumor or that heads will roll and a message sent that we don't tolerate our dollars going to neo cons:mad:

ItsTime
01-27-2010, 07:57 PM
I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't mind people being compensated for their time, if they do a decent job. But, for my money, I'd like to see results. If they were doing it for free, of course, I wouldn't expect much, other than for them to turn it over to someone else with more time and more dedication if they present themselves willing and able to do the task.

No I know what you are saying.

muzzled dogg
01-27-2010, 07:57 PM
lol this is hilarious

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 07:59 PM
YouTube - KHAAAAAAN! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnSnfiUI54)

MsDoodahs
01-27-2010, 08:00 PM
What really makes me mad is that instead of planning on ways to help candidates we like on this forum, we have to waste time dealing with stupid crap like this.

I hate infighting when it's over small issues, but this is a HUGE issue and could be a major distraction when we need to be focused on upcoming elections.

I seriously wonder what the C4L is thinking sometimes (and this isn't the first time I've thought that). What exactly has all this money we have given to them done? I see way more results from people on this forum than I do from them.

Transparency - COMPLETE transparency - or CFL should bite the dust.

It's really just that simple.

ItsTime
01-27-2010, 08:00 PM
Im trying to decide which liberty fumble was the worst

a) Strange Bed Fellows - Break The Matrix works with far left on a money bomb. Far left turns around and uses the money to run ads against Liberty candidates.

b) Campaign for Liberty creates ads for neo-cons.


Will these be in the next Documentary? Or are we going to make up our history too?

FrankRep
01-27-2010, 08:02 PM
a) Strange Bed Fellows - Break The Matrix works with far left on a money bomb. Far left turns around and uses the money to run ads against Liberty candidates.

Seriously? Do you have a link for more information?

ItsTime
01-27-2010, 08:02 PM
Seriously? Do you have a link for more information?

It was all over the boards. Maybe if you do a search on this forum you might find it.

Dreamofunity
01-27-2010, 08:03 PM
YouTube - Reel Big Fish - Sell Out (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEKbFMvkLIc)

LittleLightShining
01-27-2010, 08:05 PM
Apparently any and all non-profits should be listed on the guidestar website. However I'm finding nothing conclusive on the national C4L there. I am working on searches for 990 tax forms and expenditures but I'm coming up empty. This is weird.

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 08:12 PM
Apparently any and all non-profits should be listed on the guidestar website. However I'm finding nothing conclusive on the national C4L there. I am working on searches for 990 tax forms and expenditures but I'm coming up empty. This is weird.

WTF, are they still a non-profit?!

LittleLightShining
01-27-2010, 08:13 PM
WTF, are they still a non-profit?!

I don't know, I'm just passing along what I was told by a friend who does research on nonprofits almost daily.

LittleLightShining
01-27-2010, 08:20 PM
I found something. Costs $7.95 to download. (http://www.taxexemptworld.com/organization.asp?tn=1738552)

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 08:27 PM
I found something. Costs $7.95 to download. (http://www.taxexemptworld.com/organization.asp?tn=1738552)

Found something intriguging on that page:


This organization is an independent organization or an independent auxiliary (i.e., not affiliated with a National, Regional, or Geographic grouping of organizations).

aclove
01-27-2010, 08:29 PM
If that's the case, how in the holy hell could they afford to drop $350,000 on production and airtime for one ad?

LittleLightShining
01-27-2010, 08:30 PM
Found something intriguging on that page:

I ended up creating an account at guidestar because I noticed that the address for C4L at the link above was Lake Jackson, TX NOT Arlington, VA. There is no information available for free from guidestar on C4L-- which again is kinda odd because my friend uses this site for a lot of the work he does and hasn't even had to register to get what he needs.

http://www2.guidestar.org/organizations/26-2730467/campaign-liberty.aspx#

dr. hfn
01-27-2010, 08:32 PM
this thread has 5,287 views! It is unbelievable!

angelatc
01-27-2010, 08:34 PM
Here at the Kokesh campaign, we haven't received our survey yet. Looking forward to fill it out.

I was wondering about that. Apparently it's worth $350,000 if you return it! Such a deal.

erowe1
01-27-2010, 08:35 PM
WTF, are they still a non-profit?!

Yes.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/faq.php#type

The Campaign for Liberty is a 501(c)(4) non-profit organization. A "501(c)(4)" is an organization not organized for profit and operated "exclusively for the promotion of social welfare." It is essentially a tax designation. There are many different tax categories for political organizations, each with its own pros and cons. In our case, the pros include having no limit on the amount that individuals may donate, while cons include a restriction from endorsing political candidates. Those who would like to donate to an organization that can support political candidates should donate to a Poltical Action Committee (PAC) such as the Liberty PAC. Donations to 501(c)(4)'s are NOT tax deductible.

gls
01-27-2010, 08:41 PM
this thread has 5,287 views! It is unbelievable!

Yes, hopefully this will become a big enough liability for them that they won't be able to continue ignoring it.

pacelli
01-27-2010, 08:42 PM
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! Good luck getting donations now. My guess is any new funding will dry up from now on.

I hate to say it, but is Ron Paul even writing his own emails when he is asking people to donate to various candidates?

erowe1
01-27-2010, 08:54 PM
I hate to say it, but is Ron Paul even writing his own emails when he is asking people to donate to various candidates?

I assume not. But what does that have to do with any of this?

Reason
01-27-2010, 09:00 PM
GDI I'm wearing a C4L T-Shirt right now...

Mini-Me
01-27-2010, 09:01 PM
Wow. I just noticed this thread, and I haven't read through its 24 whopping pages yet...but it sounds like the CFL has truly jumped the shark.

It reminds me of this post in this thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=220443):

For a brief moment in time there was an organically developing movement arising from the public ranks. Now we are all witnessing the fracturing and dismantling of everything and anything that might be used as a foundation for its continued operation or growth.

Toss it all out and start over. It's all been infected.
I thought the whole "toss it all out and start over" thing was extreme when I first read the post, but I'm rethinking that now...

angelatc
01-27-2010, 09:13 PM
Is anybody still reading? I found some stuff on the IRS site. http://forms.irs.gov/politicalOrgsSearch/search/gotoSearchDrillDown.action?pacId=%2724954%27&criteriaName=%27CAMPAIGN+FOR+LIBERTY%27

Current Organization Information
Name: CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY
EIN: 205227484
Address: 1701 WYNKOOP ST., STE 215
DENVER, CO 80202
E-Mail: campaignforliberty@gmail.com
Contact: JOHN BRITZ
Custodian: JOHN BRITZ

This form indicates that this CFL was established in 2006, for the sole purpose of supporting Colorado political candidates: http://forms.irs.gov/politicalOrgsSearch/search/Print.action?formId=27671&formType=E71

So why are they using the C4L logo, and why is somebody at "our" C4L speaking for them? And if they're able to pass out $350,000, why no filings since 2006?

There are no filings that I can find for any other entities with the name Campaign For Liberty, but I've only been looking for about 3 minutes.

Who wants to email them?

RCA
01-27-2010, 09:13 PM
Wow. I just noticed this thread, and I haven't read through its 24 whopping pages yet...but it sounds like the CFL has truly jumped the shark.

It reminds me of this post in this thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=220443):

I thought the whole "toss it all out and start over" thing was extreme when I first read the post, but I'm rethinking that now...

FYI, this thread is only 6 pages long if you set your forum preferences to the maximum number of messages per page.

Paulitical Correctness
01-27-2010, 09:15 PM
Not to hijack, but I feel the need to remind you all...

This movement is a campaign for liberty, run by individuals as they see fit. We collaborate in various ways and decide our own grassroots methods. The campaign for liberty is an organization that exists because of YOU. It is up to YOU to further the cause.

We never needed a top down organization for success. I've been out of the liberty loop for a while now, but if I recall correctly our activism flourished right here on RPF.

Whether or not this is a critical blow to the CFL, we are winning. Look around you, the seeds have been planted everywhere!

UtahApocalypse
01-27-2010, 09:15 PM
Is anybody still reading? I found some stuff on the IRS site. http://forms.irs.gov/politicalOrgsSearch/search/gotoSearchDrillDown.action?pacId=%2724954%27&criteriaName=%27CAMPAIGN+FOR+LIBERTY%27

Current Organization Information
Name: CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY
EIN: 205227484
Address: 1701 WYNKOOP ST., STE 215
DENVER, CO 80202
E-Mail: campaignforliberty@gmail.com
Contact: JOHN BRITZ
Custodian: JOHN BRITZ

This form indicates that the CFL was established in 2006, for the sole purpose of supporting Colorado political candidates: http://forms.irs.gov/politicalOrgsSearch/search/Print.action?formId=27671&formType=E71

So why are they using the C4L logo, and why is somebody at C4L speaking for them?

There are no filings that I can find for any other entities with the name Campaign For Liberty, but I've only been looking for about 3 minutes.

WTF??? We know already that they are using the National Graphics, and the National Communications Director even affirmed the ad was done buy the C4L. This is getting even more crazy and im losing any faith in this organization. Things are to fishy, and shady.

Mini-Me
01-27-2010, 09:16 PM
FYI, this thread is only 6 pages long if you set your forum preferences to the maximum number of messages per page.

Thanks, but that still doesn't make it any shorter. ;)

angelatc
01-27-2010, 09:20 PM
WTF??? We know already that they are using the National Graphics, and the National Communications Director even affirmed the ad was done buy the C4L. This is getting even more crazy and im losing any faith in this organization. Things are to fishy, and shady.

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/527/campaign-for-liberty.asp

That organization appears to only have been active for a single election cycle. The info on this site matches the info on the IRS site.

And there is absolutely no information for any other "Campaign For Liberty" entity there, either.

ItsTime
01-27-2010, 09:20 PM
Not to hijack, but I feel the need to remind you all...

This movement is a campaign for liberty, run by individuals as they see fit. We collaborate in various ways and decide our own grassroots methods. The campaign for liberty is an organization that exists because of YOU. It is up to YOU to further the cause.

We never needed a top down organization for success. I've been out of the liberty loop for a while now, but if I recall correctly our activism flourished right here on RPF.

Whether or not this is a critical blow to the CFL, we are winning. Look around you, the seeds have been planted everywhere!

Without a doubt. And think about how many neo-con supporters of this douche will now visit C4L to check it out...

Bobster
01-27-2010, 09:23 PM
http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/527/campaign-for-liberty.asp

That organization appears to only have been active for a single election cycle. The info on this site matches the info on the IRS site.
This makes it smell like a plant organization more than anything else. This whole affair seems incredibly fishy.

purplechoe
01-27-2010, 09:23 PM
oops... I wanted to star a news thread, continue with the C4L discussion... :)

ItsTime
01-27-2010, 09:24 PM
This makes it smell like a plant organization more than anything else. This whole affair seems incredibly fishy.

Dont be a moron. Yup Ron Paul is an illuminaty reptilian neo-con plant.

KCIndy
01-27-2010, 09:25 PM
Is anybody still reading? I found some stuff on the IRS site. http://forms.irs.gov/politicalOrgsSearch/search/gotoSearchDrillDown.action?pacId=%2724954%27&criteriaName=%27CAMPAIGN+FOR+LIBERTY%27

Current Organization Information
Name: CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY
EIN: 205227484
Address: 1701 WYNKOOP ST., STE 215
DENVER, CO 80202
E-Mail: campaignforliberty@gmail.com
Contact: JOHN BRITZ
Custodian: JOHN BRITZ

This form indicates that this CFL was established in 2006, for the sole purpose of supporting Colorado political candidates: http://forms.irs.gov/politicalOrgsSearch/search/Print.action?formId=27671&formType=E71

So why are they using the C4L logo, and why is somebody at "our" C4L speaking for them? And if they're able to pass out $350,000, why no filings since 2006?

There are no filings that I can find for any other entities with the name Campaign For Liberty, but I've only been looking for about 3 minutes.

Who wants to email them?


WOW!!

Good Catch, angelatc!!

Apparently there IS a Colorado specific Campaign for Liberty...

A quick Google search also turned this up:

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/527/campaign-for-liberty.asp

Pardon the poor formatting... but check out the groups and contributions! I don't see a group like this coming up with 350 Grand to buy an ad... Granted, this is 2006 stuff.

Let's keep digging, people!! :eek:



CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY
"527" Political Organization Filing Information

Organization Info
Group Name CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY

Stated Purpose TO SUPPORT POLITICAL CANDIDATES IN THE STATE OF COLORADO

Email Address campaignforliberty@gmail.com

Established Date 07/19/2006

Contact Person JOHN BRITZ
Contact Address 1701 WYNKOOP ST., STE 215
DENVER, CO 80202

Mailing Address 1701 WYNKOOP ST., STE 215
DENVER, CO 80202

Contributions Received $19,000

Expenditures Made $19,216


CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY "527" Contribution Details


AFSCME Washington, DC 20036 $2,000 08/21/2006

Colorado AFL-CIO Denver, CO 80226 $5,000 08/23/2006

Colorado Education Association Denver, CO 80203 $10,000 08/14/2006

Emily's List Washington, DC 20036 $2,000 08/17/2006


CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY "527" Expenditure Details
Vendor $ Expense Amount Purpose Date

Isaacson & Rosenbaum PC 633 17th Street, Suite 2200 Denver, CO 80202 $716 Legal Services 08/28/2006


Joe Slade White & Company 377 Main Street East Aurora, NY 14852 $15,500 Media Production and Buy 08/30/2006


Welchert & Britz 1701 Wynkoop Street Suite 215 Denver, CO 80202 $2,000 Consulting Fee 10/13/2006


Welchert & Britz, Inc. 1701 WYNKOOP ST., STE 215 DENVER, CO 80202 $1,000 General Consulting Fee 09/01/2006