Supporters taking it to the next level (rant)

[Bradley in DC]

The freedom philosophy message is greater than one man or one campaign--no matter how great that man is or important this campaign is.

I'd like to offer some free, unsolicited advice (for everything that's worth). Education is key. We're not only trying to educate voters to support Dr. Paul, we're leading a rEVOLution in thinking. Yes, WE are the leaders. Don't shirk that responsibility.

When I started my political activism many, many years ago as an undergraduate student, I had the great fortune of meeting and working with a brilliant LP activist. I'll share her words of wisdom to me, "Everyone else is inconsistent in their views. Our challenge is to find the issues where we agree with each person, get them understand the principle by which they came to that understanding, and urge them to apply that principle more broadly." Ponder that thought.

That appoach has made me a broad "strange bedfellows" coalition kingmaker in DC public policy circles. My first year working for Dr. Paul I organized a coalition that included drug legalizers, the Christian right, socialist privacy groups, anti-tax and anti-regulation groups, other libertarians and lots of business groups. The first meeting in Dr. Paul's office was priceless: many of them knew most of the rest but had never been on the same side before on issue fights. Unity through the constitution. Respect for everyone's rights as individuals. Human dignity comes from our Creator and not for governments to take away--nor for us to denegrate.

If we're going to win not only this race but make the rEVOLution succeed, we have a lot of education to do and a lot of converts to win over to our cause (and welcome to you newcomers!). As with most things, follow the good doctor's example. He NEVER makes personal attacks, never denegrates anyone, only sticks to the issues, stresses what unites us--what common values we share.

Yes, there is no shortage of opportunities to mock (even just pointing out the painfully obvious, I know, I know), but that's how we lose. We need converts, lots of converts. No one in Congress agrees with Dr. Paul on everything (or most even on most things!), but he is universally liked. Let that thought sink in.

Stick to policy arguments. Stick to principles (http://www.house.gov/paul/bio.shtml). Every activity we do... Every word out of our mouths... Every move we make while driving with a bumper sticker on..., etc., you are ambassadors for the movement. Conditions for this rEVOLution are ripe. It's ours to win or lose.

Buck up and show some confidence. We're the ones who are right, remember? Cut the conspiracy-laden martyr complex crap and grow a pair if you want us to succeed. I don't care if you think 9/11 was an inside job (it wasn't) or if the polls are "rigged" (they're not) or there's a criminal conspiracy media blackout (there isn't (http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine/2007/11/no_news_is_bad_news.html)) or they're changing electoral rules to hurt Dr. Paul (they're not), [EDIT ADD: crying over alleged CFR delusions or ballot machines], or whatever your insecurities are that you're nuturing. Cut it out, we have real work to do. Don't fall into the oppositions' traps for us.

The next few weeks and months are critical for this battle. We have a compressed and accelerated electoral calendar. No more whining. Go out and win this for the Gipper or whatever trite cheer motivates you.

YOU ARE THE LEADERS and ambassadors, act like it. We have a country to take back and a rEVOLution to lead. We owe it to the patriots before us and the generations following us. Focus on what's needed RIGHT NOW.

Thank you for your continued patronage. Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[MsDoodahs]

:eek:
Where'd that come from?
:confused:

[steph3n]

I agree with this, there have been far too many personal attacks against many bloggers, columnists etc. While they may not have their "thinking cap" on they can be awakened with some polite direction.

[constituent]

I agree with this, there have been far too many personal attacks against many bloggers, columnists etc. While they may not have their "thinking cap" on they can be awakened with some polite direction.

and one another... i think is what bradindc was getting at.

excellent advice all the way around brad, thanks for an inspirational piece!

[scbissler]

Exactly right!!

[noxagol]

Yeah. And remember why we are all here too.

[M.Bellmore]

We should listen to those who have been here before (e.g. Bradley). Makes sense to me. :cool:

[speciallyblend]

Good Rant,now come here ,i have a tazer:) for you;0

[Santana28]

Bradley, you rule. Now get your butt back to Ohio someday and run for office ;)

[M.Bellmore]

MsDoodahs, steph3r, and constituent, please take 5 seconds and put in your location in your profile ... please! (I am harassing every senior member until I get 100%).

Bradley, can you add something for Senior members without locations to have a location that says: In my momma's basement? :D

[cujothekitten]

Agreed 500%!

I've noticed a large problem with the republican and democratic base; they don't know the philosophy behind their ideals. They know how they stand on an issue but they don't have an underlying ideology to make them consistent.

I read an article the other day that says republicans are slipping in support of free trade but it was obvious by the article that the people being polled had no idea what free trade really is. They know they're against NAFTA/WTO but they have no real clue why... the article went on to say that republicans are in favor of more regulations. Many of them also supported universal health care. It seems to me that the two ideologies (liberal and conservative) really don't know what they stand for anymore.

I'm on a rough and tough forum called protest warrior and the place is filled with all kinds of people. I've noticed that the only ones that have a clue about core principles are the socialists and the libertarians. They also happen to be the only two groups that can debate civilly and delve into the real heart of the issues. Everyone else there is a raving lunatic... I'm serious about that, many need to be on medication and seek professional help.

If we are to make real progress we must debate the core of what we are. You don't need to be insulting, you just need to be rational and express your views. If you do that you will wake a lot of people up.

[Phenom24]

Good stuff Brad. We need a kick in the butt - can't be complacent after the fund raising efforts.

[constituent]

^but m. bellmore, i like being from nowhere (what's the html for poutey face?).

[steph3n]

I did not put anywhere as I am two places :D

Just as a note to anyone reading this that does not know, on most cases you can read and know a LOT about Ron Paul at:
www.ronpaullibrary.org

There are even PDF downloads of most of his books there, recommended reading list!

[DjLoTi]

Bravo! I have also encountered frustrating tactics done by feverent supporters. Well intended, but ultimately isolating both supporters and non-supporters. Great post.

[RP4ME]

Thanks for the POST!! :D

[M.Bellmore]

I did not put anywhere as I am two places :D

Just as a note to anyone reading this that does not know, on most cases you can read and know a LOT about Ron Paul at:
www.ronpaullibrary.org

There are even PDF downloads of most of his books there, recommended reading list!

Commuting for work? I spend most weeks in CA.

[mport1]

Sticky!

[Bluedevil]

very well written, impressive.

[reduen]

Brad, I agree with you 100% for the most part of you post but I can not understand why some kind of voter confirmation process would be frowned apon by anyone here...

[Bryan]

Thanks for the great message Bradley. I totally agree with the recent fundraising and increased media exposure we can, we should, we would be foolish to not take things to the next level here. I am truly completely humbled and honored to be a part of this group as we are a very strong leader in the Ron Paul campaign and we should capitalize on that.

While there will be disagreements on the issues below I challenge everyone here to not focus on these things for here and now, we have better battles to fight. When others do this we need to educate them on the damage that it can do, even just by diluting the more important message. This isn't a call for no dissidents, but to increase education and focus. The new chat feature can be good to let off some steam. The forum is growing, we're making a difference. Josh and I are now configuring the new server which is much better than this one. We have opportunity ahead, we should learn from those who offer experienced advise and have fun moving forward.

In the future I will be forwarding people a link to this thread in PM when it makes sense.

My fiat $0.02. Thanks.


Buck up and show some confidence. We're the ones who are right, remember? Cut the conspiracy-laden martyr complex crap and grow up if you want us to succeed. I don't care if you think 9/11 was an inside job (it wasn't) or if the polls are "rigged" (they're not) or there's a criminal conspiracy media blackout (there isn't) or they're changing electoral rules to hurt Dr. Paul (they're not) or whatever your insecurities are that you're nuturing. Cut it out, we have real work to do. Don't fall into the oppositions' traps for us.

[Bryan]

OK- I added a tag in my sig to link back to this thread. Anyone who supports this level of discourse and direction can do something similar.

[Wilkero]

Thank you, Bradley. A post of this nature is long overdue., and I whole-heartedly agree with you.

My understanding of Bradley's advice is that we should focus on why Dr. Paul is the best candidate, rather than why the other candidates are deficient. In educating people on Dr. Paul and his policies, the other candidates' deficiencies will become evident, and therefore we are not required to explicitly point them out.

At the same time, we need to understand that not everyone will agree with us, or with Dr. Paul, 100% of the time, but that does not preclude them from joining the Ron Paul Revolution. In fact, that diversity is one of our strengths (remember the "Big Tent"?). The best way to persuade someone to support Dr. Paul is not by trying to convince them to believe what you believe, but by showing them why Dr. Paul best represents what they already believe.

[runderwo]

There may not be a "criminal conspiracy" media blackout (is it even possible to commit a crime by failing to cover someone?) but it would be extremely naive to claim that, at least before the Q3 results posted, Paul was not the target of a general media blackout. We have examples throughout this forum as proof.

While the media blackout is generally history, we are still dealing with the effects of the poll blackouts (name unmentioned or buried in poll choices).

[BarryDonegan]

one thing dawned on me about this campaign. while there is a bit of a media directive as to who is allowed to be considered a frontrunner, the reason dr. paul was marginalized in the past is moreso because he didn't seem like the type of candidate who could win. now that hes proving it with $$, he is starting to get some serious coverage. i think prior to that a lot of people REALLY believed that it was due to spammers. the internet is so futuristic to a lot of people, even still, that its similar to things like NASA, its very tough to prove or believe whats going on there, so some people tend to assume conspiracy theories about it right off, because they can't see it in a way that they can understand.

so the average person is a tin foil hat person when it comes to the internet, especially if they dont use it much. now that the moneys in, they'll take him a little more seriously.

i wonder if a lot of the pandering that the MSM does is due to the fact that richer candidates have paid certain P.R. firms that are very pricey to get these relationships?

i know in music it works this way, if you throw a couple grand to a P.R. firm who is friends with the magazines you get all the interviews, reviews,etc.

maybe the kingmaker P.R. firms who can really get you in with the MSM are very pricey, probably in the CFR, and might be unknown outside those circles.

likewise, i bet with proper money you could still hire them and use them, whether your in their circle or not... if you knew who they were.

in that case it would be less a "media blackout" and more a "you didn't turn the media light on" with the 4 or 5 million dollar P.R. firm that it takes.

the other route besides the P.R. route that you can take to get the coverage, is by becoming so popular that you have an economic value of your own. when Ron Paul appearances cause ratings spikes, you can guarantee they will increase, whether or not he will hurt their agenda.

on the same coin, theres an amount of support he must get, after which every other republican will jump on the bandwagon. in this election i will call it the "anything but hillary" affect. when he reaches the point of being considered a mainstream candidate, there will be discussion of how he appeals to old school conservatives yet is "left of hillary" on the war. i seriously doubt the republican base who is fooled by neocons will switch over and support hillary over iraq... they didn't switch over and support clinton over kosovo. the republican base goes where the common sense rednecks go, and the main issue could quickly turn into "get off my land".

[runderwo]

in that case it would be less a "media blackout" and more a "you didn't turn the media light on" with the 4 or 5 million dollar P.R. firm that it takes

How much does it cost for FOX News to not omit your name from straw poll results and pretend you weren't in the top 5?

How much does it cost for news stations to not ignore a huge parade of Ron Paul supporters in the middle of events they are already covering?

[Bradley in DC]

well, it only took an hour for the this thread to become my nightmare...

[BarryDonegan]

paying as much as everyone else.

you have to look at it this way, the supervisors over the program probably asked the reporters and cameramen to get certain footage that they wanted. this is probably affected by the P.R. companies that they work with, and the news directors input. they may also out of habit downplay people who are not in their agenda...

so generally, they will push for information that promotes their agenda... anything contradictory they will avoid, provided that its not so newsworthy its unavoidable... the ron paul/giuliani wars on foxnews were considered newsworthy, and many programs took rons side.

i think the 5 million has not bought him the right to be in the sortof whose winning the republican party nomination discussions yet, primarily because he doesn't have the one on one relationships with the kingmakers on top. i think those are personal and financial relationships; being cfr or something might give you an edge over some people, however some CFR candidates don't get the media love either... i think you have to have a PERSONAL and FINANCIAL relationship with the guy on top at each station.

this is something the Clintons do better than anyone else. Dr. Paul isn't a scummy person who will do that type of thing, so his route is newsworthiness, we have to become such a powerful force that people need us for ratings.

[uncloned21]

**applause**

[smtwngrl]

Well said! I don't agree with you on *every* point, but you are right on about where our focus needs to be.

[Revolution9]

TBuck up and show some confidence. We're the ones who are right, remember? Cut the conspiracy-laden martyr complex crap and grow up if you want us to succeed. I don't care if you think 9/11 was an inside job (it wasn't) or if the polls are "rigged" (they're not) or there's a criminal conspiracy media blackout (there isn't) or they're changing electoral rules to hurt Dr. Paul (they're not) or whatever your insecurities are that you're nuturing. Cut it out, we have real work to do. Don't fall into the oppositions' traps for us.

haha! You say no one is out to get us and that everything is just dandy. Then the last line of the paragraph you say "Don't fall into the oppositions' traps for us.".

My irony meter now has to go to the shop to be recalibrated.

Best
Randy

[smtwngrl]

MsDoodahs, steph3r, and constituent, please take 5 seconds and put in your location in your profile ... please! (I am harassing every senior member until I get 100%).


And why would that be? :p :D

[Bradley in DC]

haha! You say no one is out to get us and that everything is just dandy. Then the last line of the paragraph you say "Don't fall into the oppositions' traps for us.".

My irony meter now has to go to the shop to be recalibrated.

Best
Randy

Hi Randy, welcome back.

Or you could just read what I actually wrote--we have opposition. Let's not make their job easier.

[BarryDonegan]

well, it only took an hour for the this thread to become my nightmare...

"your nightmare" is the reason the founding fathers chose representative republic over direct democracy.

haha.

its less realistic to get a mob of people, growing exponentially every day, to NOT do things, than it is to get them to DO things.

especially when the variety of supporters range from one on end, people passionate about limited government and lower taxes, to on the other end people who have been persecuted by police or lost a son or daughter in the war.

emotions are the driver here. i agree, wholeheartedly though, that the tin foil hat whining doesn't do much good; and makes the campaign look weak. but i also think the tin foil hat whining is FAR less noticeable than the overzealous grassroots support. its a slight waste byproduct of the nature of the support.

conversely, how many rudy mittrompson supporters say things publicly like "we should just nuke all those towelheads".

i have most definately had that said to me at least 100 times in the last 6 months; and seen it in many forums.

the wasteproduct of popularity, is antisocial people publicly supporting you. haha. not too sure you can control that without prescribing xanax.

[Pete]

the other route besides the P.R. route that you can take to get the coverage, is by becoming so popular that you have an economic value of your own. when Ron Paul appearances cause ratings spikes, you can guarantee they will increase, whether or not he will hurt their agenda.

This how I read the blossoming of coverage this week.

[BarryDonegan]

exactly.

the people ARE a power, when they get their mind set on using it.

[katao]

Thanks Bradley for a voice of reason. Even if you don't agree 100%, you can't argue with the premise that we need to a laser like focus on what really matters. We have less than 92 days folks. Every day, every hour counts. Make the most of it.

[damijin]

Bump for logic and reason.

[axiomata]

I nominate Bradley for grassroots campaign director!

The greatest strength of the libertarian ideology is its internal consistency. As a left brain type of person, the mental dissonance that results from real-world applications inconsistent with my fundamental axioms forces me to either reconsider my view on that matter or reconsider the axioms themselves.

“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

^Boy does that quote grate me. It also grated Justice Scalia (ripped from a volokh conspiracy comment (http://volokh.com/posts/1128955252.shtml#25441))


Justice Scalia disagreed: "this strikes me as unmitigated nonsense. One should assuredly not shrink from changing his views when persuaded that they are wrong. But the person who finds himself repeatedly in that situation - who quite readily speaks today what he thinks today, and tomorrow what he thinks tomorrow, with no concern for, with 'simply nothing to do' with, the inconsistency between the two - is rightly regarded, it seems to me, not as a "great soul,"' but as one who habitually speaks without reflection, that is to say, a right fool."

Justice Scalia wisely concluded that "I think it generally sound policy to leave poets alone if they leave you alone," but continued, since Emerson's aphorism has been used in legal opinions, that "Besides its centrality to the rule of law in general, consistency has a special role to play in judge-made law - both judge-pronounced common law and judge-pronounced determinations of the application of statutory and constitutional provisions. Legislatures are subject to democratic checks upon their lawmaking. Judges less so, and federal judges not at all. The only checks on the arbitrariness of federal judges are the insistence upon consistency and the application of the teachings of the mother of consistency, logic. Courts in a precedent-based system such as ours do not resolve each case in isolation from the cases that went before, deciding what seems 'fair' or in accord with statutory or constitutional text on the basis of stated reasons that are plausible but quite incompatible with equally plausible reasons set forth in an earlier case. Rather, courts apply to each case a system of abstract and entirely fictional categories developed in earlier cases, which are designed, if logically applied, to produce 'fair' or textually faithful results....When this elaborate intellectual structure produces a result that seems to the judge patently 'unfair' or contrary to governing text, it is not acceptable for him to disregard the structure, with the quip that 'consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.' He must, if possible, design a new sub-rule or sub-fiction whose application will not only lead to the result he thinks correct but will also be compatible with the remainder of the structure and conform with prior holdings. If he cannot do that, then (the theory of our system holds) his notions of fairness or textual fidelity are simply out of whack, and he must subordinate them to the law. ...Sometimes, of course, the highest court in the judicial system may come to the conclusion that the result inescapably produced by the binding abstractions is simply wrong - which means a return to the drawing board and the construction of a superseding scheme that leads to the right result. Such overrulings, I must acknowledge, involve a sacrifice of consistency. Yet even while abandoning consistency in the particular case, the court will affirm its enduring value for the system as a whole. For even as the old rationale is abandoned, a new one is announced, which forms the basis for a new scheme that is to be consistently followed."

40 Case W. Res. L. Rev. 581, 587 -590

[Bryan]

Let's keep this important thread on topic please- some off-topic posts have been deleted. Sorry.

:)

[mdh]

I think part of what Bradley is getting at is that while the other candidates are our opposition, they aren't our *enemy*. There's a difference there, I think, and I hope you guys get my meaning. We're trying to get Dr. Paul to win, not to get everyone else to lose... :)

[TheIndependent]

bump because Bradley's speaking absolute truth.

TIME TO GET PROFESSIONAL.

[ItsTime]

thanks for bump! everyone read this,.

[SouthernGuy15]

Bradly,

You just lost any respect I had for you.

[Hook]

Bradly,

You just lost any respect I had for you.

I'm sure he won't sleep tonight then :D

[FreedomLover]

Stick to policy arguments. Stick to principles (http://www.house.gov/paul/bio.shtml). Every activity we do... Every word out of our mouths... Every move we make while driving with a bumper sticker on..., etc., you are ambassadors for the movement. Conditions for this rEVOLution are ripe. It's ours to win or lose.

Buck up and show some confidence. We're the ones who are right, remember? Cut the conspiracy-laden martyr complex crap and grow a pair if you want us to succeed. I don't care if you think 9/11 was an inside job (it wasn't) or if the polls are "rigged" (they're not) or there's a criminal conspiracy media blackout (there isn't) or they're changing electoral rules to hurt Dr. Paul (they're not), [EDIT ADD: crying over alleged CFR delusions or ballot machines], or whatever your insecurities are that you're nuturing. Cut it out, we have real work to do. Don't fall into the oppositions' traps for us.

The next few weeks and months are critical for this battle. We have a compressed and accelerated electoral calendar. No more whining. Go out and win this for the Gipper or whatever trite cheer motivates you.


Thank God someone said it!

I agree 100%. Remember that you represent ron paul to everyone you meet!

Insulting people on a whim for not liking ron paul or being for the war makes them go from nuetral on RP to doing everything they can to oppose him and marginalize him to spite you! The victim complex I see here all the time is even worse.

[LibertyEagle]

Thanks for writing this Bradley. I think you are right.

I have already read your post twice and I plan to read it every day, until I get it through my sometimes thick skull. :)

[Bryan]

Bradly,

You just lost any respect I had for you.
Why?

[FreedomLover]

haha! You say no one is out to get us and that everything is just dandy. Then the last line of the paragraph you say "Don't fall into the oppositions' traps for us.".

Fact: Not everyone likes Ron Paul. Nor does everyone dislike him.

Ron Paul does have opposition...from the people who are competing against him for the presidency...along with those supporters. Most of them don't even take Ron Paul seriously at this point. If you think the "attacks" are bad now, just wait until Ron Paul actually starts rising in the "likely republican voter" column.

But let's not delude ourselves to the point that every slight against ron paul is a conspiracy theory, but rather the obvious course a presidential campaign takes. Us RP supporters have caused more self-inflicted wounds than anything when RP is added to selfish pet-issues like trutherism and the NWO, this is what Bradley is worried about, rightly, because it diverts our attention from the goal of winning over new supporters. When the RP supporters stick to the issues and show their force in the streets as a cohesive group who's 1 goal is to get RP elected and bring the constitution back into vogue, that's when we win!


And another thing: do you ever see hunter, tancredo, brownback supporters whining about the "media blackout" on their candidates, who probably get less mention than ron paul?

No. You know why?

Because they realize that their candidate isn't raising money, and arn't high in the polls. Therefore, media attention isn't justified, because at the end of the day, the news channels want the story that people will watch, and if they think less people care about a supporter (their metrics are polls and money, they do not put stock into internet polls) than they will spend less time talking about them.

When RP raised more money than expected last quarter, he got a good amount of media attention. He gets mentioned frequently on msnbc. When he raised 5 mil this quarter, he got and keeps getting more media attention.



Want RP to lose? Wear an inside job shirt to your ron paul rally, carry a ron paul sign to a code-pink sponsored anti-war rally, protest the local gop for 'rigging' the straw poll. Cuss out media and bloggers for Anti-RP articles.


Want RP to win? Donate money, explain the issues to your friends and family and encourage them to donate as well, go to your group meetings or meetups, go to rallys, write emails, talk to republicans and GOP reps.

[cujothekitten]

Want RP to win? Donate money, explain the issues to your friends and family and encourage them to donate as well, go to your group meetings or meetups, go to rallys, write emails, talk to republicans and GOP reps.


True, and to add, directly challenge their ideology. Debate them about their views... don't be angry but really challenge them to think about their views. Get people to really delve into the heart of the issues.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Thanks Bradley, timely rant. Helps build focus and direction by re-inforcing our true mission.

Mr. Bellmore - locations for me would be a bit much...

[Bruehound]

Choose Locke over Hobbes!

[enjerth]

This topic should be sticky. People need to see it every day.

[Revolution9]

Hi Randy, welcome back.

Or you could just read what I actually wrote--we have opposition. Let's not make their job easier.

I did read what you wrote. That is why I commented as I did. The rest of the stuff i don't need no rah rah talk up about. I got my momentum already. I do understand that other don't have the "they can't take my feet out from under me with a howitzer" attitude so go for the big cheerleading posts. I do them once in a while too.:)

Best Regards
Randy

[Revolution9]

I think part of what Bradley is getting at is that while the other candidates are our opposition, they aren't our *enemy*. There's a difference there, I think, and I hope you guys get my meaning. We're trying to get Dr. Paul to win, not to get everyone else to lose... :)

Ghouliani is an enemy. Hillary is an enemy. They are a part of a criminal cabal. The rest are just politicians pandering or speaking what they think will get them elected for the most part. They are not indecent as ghouliani is..and his nickname is a well deserved title.

Best
Randy

[Revolution9]

Thank God someone said it!

I agree 100%. Remember that you represent ron paul to everyone you meet!



No I don't. Bottom line. I am me. I represent myself and my interests. The same as the rest of you. Don't kid yourself.:eek: If you think people see you as Ron Paul then you don't know people well and perhaps need readjusting to coherent reality.. They will see you as you representing your interests. This line of thinking is why I get alot of converts.

Best Regards
Randy

[Bryan]

More off-topic posts deleted. Sorry but lets keep it on-topic on this important thread. :)


This topic should be sticky. People need to see it every day.
People don't read the stickies, :) I suggest everyone to put a link to it in their signature if they support this- it's that important. Some have already done this and I thank them.

[spiteface]

No I don't. Bottom line. I am me. I represent myself and my interests. The same as the rest of you. Don't kid yourself.:eek: If you think people see you as Ron Paul then you don't know people well and perhaps need readjusting to coherent reality.. They will see you as you representing your interests. This line of thinking is why I get alot of converts.

Best Regards
Randy

Hmm, that's funny, just the other day I heard some kook call into the local radio station talking about grandiose Zionist conspiracies and the need to vote for Ron Paul. The host then spent the next hour discussing how dumbfounded he was by that and other things that, in his words, "RP believes" (almost all of them were things in Bradley's underlined paragraph). So when you are talking to people as a supporter of Ron Paul many people view you as a representative of his beliefs, whether you like it or not. Get real. Many people associate the supporters and the candidate very closely, politicians realize this.

[jjschless]

I have thought about this most especially with the bumper stickers. Cutting someone off only to have them see Ron Paul when they are upset at you is not going to leave a good impression.

Kudos Bradley!

[Thunderbolt]

Thank you Bradley. That was an excellent post. I think is easy to fall into the trap of "they are out to get us" and then look for a fight. But I agree that it is counter-productive. No one likes to witness a fight. It makes everyone uncomfortable. I agree that I too have fallen into that trap and I thank you so much for the good "shaking" that I needed!

Time to get back to the real issues. The serenity prayer comes to mind as well:

I will revise a bit for any atheists out there...

Please grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
The courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference.


I am proud of you Bradley! You brought an excellent message to us all tastefully, tactfully, and forcefully. Not an easy thing to do. I too will re-read your words often to help me stay on track. Well done sir!

[Cowlesy]

Brad you are a true patriot. Thanks again for you coming to NYC and speaking with our Meetup group whilst in the development stages. Not sure what was said to you about some of us after that fact, but we still respect you as one of the stalwart Ron Paul supporters and support your efforts in spreading his message!

[speciallyblend]

Read This Original Post Please

[LibertasPraesidium]

right before i went to bed i was stumbling around some new news posts and i come across the word sheeple. I immediately knew what it was and smiled. this is great, i was hoping someone would post this the people need to know how the rest of us feel.

No long arguments,
Just get the message out.
Ron Paul = Thomas Jefferson Will beat Hilary.
Grassroots campaign = Freedom Siege = Ron Paul Revolution

[Tidewise]

Awesome post.

[ItDoesNotStopWithRonPaul]

Ok. This campaign has serious potential. We CAN win and need to focus our main efforts on it right now. But kind of along the lines of Bradley, I want to throw in my rant.

Where is the community focused around the freedom movement? Where are the Libertarian/Constitutional principles put into action? Why don't we have business coalitions centered on the RP campaign and the freedom movement? Why haven't we put our money where our mouths are and begun to use sound currency? Ever heard of the liberty dollar, the guys who put Ron Paul's face on their currency? Who here can realistically join the Free State Project but hasn't?

Look at my username. It does not stop with Ron Paul. This is just the beginning. If RP wins and gets into the White House, awesome! That IS NOT the end of the rEVOLution. RP will still need massive amounts of support to take this country back. And what if he doesn't win? How will we be prepared to continue this fight? Just like RP's whole philosophy on government, in which things are best handled locally, so will our revolution best be handled at the local levels. That is why growth of community is so important. We ARE going to be attacked eventually by the media, government, IRS, whomever. Liberty is the price of unceasing struggle. Who will we turn to in tough times? Some guy over the internet, or YOUR NEIGHBOR?

We have a GREAT thing going here. This campaign is perhaps the best opportunity for taking back our country through peaceful means in the last century. So let's not lose sight of the forest amongst the trees and move forward with efforts and solutions that build the campaign but also help build longer-term community cohesion that will serve the patriot community in future troubled times.

[electrictoothsyndrome]

I agree that we have to be concise and direct in our support of Ron Paul and his presentation to the uninitiated, but I completely disagree in keeping the CFR line entirely out of the picture.

That has been among my most effective arguments. In situations where you have a captive audience or are debating an opponent with an audience, the CFR and Federal Reserve arguments can be very powerful. Of course, you have to master the material first. If you're uncomfortable with it, you're right, it's best just to stick close to the bullet points on the slim jims.

Sometimes there are people who obviously want to know more, and are open to some of the other arguments Ron Paul has made, such as those made in his "Dollar Hegemony" speech (which are VERY powerful). It helps to drive home the fact that this man is an "outsider" because he wants to break up the pow-wow these power brokers have had going on in this country for the last 60+ years.

Listen people, follow your own instincts. If you're Ron Paul supporters, you're obviously intelligent folks. You know when something is hurting him and when something is helping. Do what YOU think is best and don't just adhere to some bureaucracy or conform to some recitation or rehearsed speech. People can sense when they are on the receiving end of something that's been preplanned and premeditated and dictated from outside. They don't like it.

[Bradley in DC]

I agree that we have to be concise and direct in our support of Ron Paul and his presentation to the uninitiated, but I completely disagree in keeping the CFR line entirely out of the picture.

That has been among my most effective arguments. In situations where you have a captive audience or are debating an opponent with an audience, the CFR and Federal Reserve arguments can be very powerful. Of course, you have to master the material first. If you're uncomfortable with it, you're right, it's best just to stick close to the bullet points on the slim jims.

Sometimes there are people who obviously want to know more, and are open to some of the other arguments Ron Paul has made, such as those made in his "Dollar Hegemony" speech (which are VERY powerful). It helps to drive home the fact that this man is an "outsider" because he wants to break up the pow-wow these power brokers have had going on in this country for the last 60+ years.

Listen people, follow your own instincts. If you're Ron Paul supporters, you're obviously intelligent folks. You know when something is hurting him and when something is helping. Do what YOU think is best and don't just adhere to some bureaucracy or conform to some recitation or rehearsed speech. People can sense when they are on the receiving end of something that's been preplanned and premeditated and dictated from outside. They don't like it.

Read a summary of this guy's posts to date and decide for yourself if he doesn't come across as some conspiratorial wackjob and decide for yourself if his approach or mine is the better way for us to get Dr. Paul elected:
http://ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=280595&postcount=1
(or take his advice and follow irrational instincts. :rolleyes: )

[electrictoothsyndrome]

Read a summary of this guy's posts to date and decide for yourself if he doesn't come across as some conspiratorial wackjob and decide for yourself if his approach or mine is the better way for us to get Dr. Paul elected:
http://ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=280595&postcount=1
(or take his advice and follow irrational instincts. :rolleyes: )

Perhaps you can devote your next post to explaining how labelling me a "conspiracy wackjob" follows Ron Paul's example of "never mak[ing] personal attacks," "stick[ing] to the issues" and "stress[ing] what unites us."

When your behaviour directly contradicts the very thing you are calling for, it's very hard not to question your motivation for posting this rant. You're right - Ron Paul's example is an excellent one to follow - please start.


follow the good doctor's example. He NEVER makes personal attacks, never denegrates anyone, only sticks to the issues, stresses what unites us--what common values we share.

Yes, there is no shortage of opportunities to mock (even just pointing out the painfully obvious, I know, I know), but that's how we lose. We need converts, lots of converts.

[Bradley in DC]

Perhaps you can devote your next post to explaining how labelling me a "conspiracy wackjob" follows Ron Paul's example of "never mak[ing] personal attacks," "stick[ing] to the issues" and "stress[ing] what unites us."

When your behaviour directly contradicts the very thing you are calling for, it's very hard not to question your motivation for posting this rant. You're right - Ron Paul's example is an excellent one to follow - please start.

Perhaps you should read the guidelines here about highjacking threads?

[electrictoothsyndrome]

Hijacking? You mean commenting? Debating? Calling you out on your logical fallacies?

You are really starting to remind me of Saul Anzius with all these "throw him out of the debate" threats. You can't hide behind your bloated credentials forever if your actions don't live up to them, Bradley.

Just follow your own advice and you'll be ok. Stop making personal attacks and stress what unites us.

Calling for help from your peers to dismiss me when you're clearly contradicting yourself on every front imaginable is pretty cowardly.

I'm sorry, but I have lost every bit of respect I might have gained for you.

If your goal is to push people away and stifle debate congratulations! You have succeeded.

[SouthernGuy15]

Bradly,

Once again I tell you to stop attacking other Ron Paul supporters due to their beliefs. If someone wants to mention how 9/11 was an inside job they have every right to do so.

[Bradley in DC]

Bradly,

Once again I tell you to stop attacking other Ron Paul supporters due to their beliefs. If someone wants to mention how 9/11 was an inside job they have every right to do so.

I have protested vigorously people claiming Dr. Paul (or most of his supporters) believes 9/11 was an inside job--which I know for a personal fact is not true. I, and the overwhelming majority of his supporters, share his belief (and well-espoused views on "blowback" etc.). I have repeated on this forum and other places, repeatedly, that those supporting Dr. Paul's agenda of, among other things, a more open, honest and transparent and limited government with a non-interventionist foreign policy are most welcome and I'll do everything I can to help them push his agenda. There are many members of this forum who know this publicly and privately.

More broadly, there has been a persistent problem of others claiming Dr. Paul's good name for their own purposes (commercially, for their own petty power, for bigoted causes, and all kinds of crazy things) that, I do admit, makes me a tad sensitive on that score, yes.

[SouthernGuy15]

Bradly,

Then please be more specific. Don't target people for their beliefs. Only target them if they are putting words in Ron Paul's mouth. For example, I completely believe due to overwhelming evidence 9/11 was an inside job. But I have repetitively said that Ron Paul does not agree with me.

To be blunt, there are many supporters of Ron Paul who do indeed believe 9/11 was an inside job or other beliefs you disagree with. As long as they are not putting words in Ron Paul's mouth you should not target them!

If you are targeting those that are NOT putting words into his mouth you are only helping to push away supporters of Ron Paul.

We need to all get along and not fight each other. However, if someone is indeed putting words into his mouth then something should be said. Otherwise, many people like myself will be tremendously offended for being harassed.

[electrictoothsyndrome]

Bradly,

Then please be more specific. Don't target people for their beliefs. Only target them if they are putting words in Ron Paul's mouth. For example, I completely believe due to overwhelming evidence 9/11 was an inside job. But I have repetitively said that Ron Paul does not agree with me.

To be blunt, there are many supporters of Ron Paul who do indeed believe 9/11 was an inside job or other beliefs you disagree with. As long as they are not putting words in Ron Paul's mouth you should not target them!

If you are targeting those that are NOT putting words into his mouth you are only helping to push away supporters of Ron Paul.

We need to all get along and not fight each other. However, if someone is indeed putting words into his mouth then something should be said. Otherwise, many people like myself will be tremendously offended for being harassed.

Yep. that's all I've been trying to tell this guy for the last half day... STOP ATTACKING FELLOW SUPPORTERS with your name-calling. It's against everything you say you stand for.

Ron Paul has gained massive popularity on the back of appearances in movies like "American: From Freedom to Fascism" and on shows like Alex Jones that deal with New World Order issues, and other videos where "Police State" is the main theme, not to mention the work he's done exposing the Federal Reserve "conspiracy".

If you told me right now that Dr. Ron Paul no longer wanted us "conspiracy theorist nutjobs" around, or that this all was some elaborate ACT, which I don't think it is, I'd leave this campaign right now.

This is the effect YOU'RE having. You've actually made me, a hardcore and active supporter, question Ron Paul!

I'd still like an answer to my question I sent you... Does Dr. Ron Paul talk about his supporters in private by referring to them as "conspiracy theorist wackjobs" or "nutjobs"?

[kill the banks]

one thing is certain in all this ... without limited government constitutional law no one wins but the criminals that overthrow it ... in controversial matters answers come from that same constitution ... we all want a truth based govt not 'a nation of sheep' lie based system ... we all win by using it to resolve solutions to any problem ~ there is no new matter that won't benefit if we elect a founding father who believes in the law of the land and who will not disobey his oath to constitutional order ... it's that or " a big idea ~ a new world order " that only favors feudalism elite ideals and criminal inequities ...

kill the banks

[freelance]

I know this is an old thread, but here's the operative sentence:


YOU ARE THE LEADERS and ambassadors, act like it.

[LibertyEagle]

bump

[jjschless]

bump

[inibo]

I was thinking about starting yet another thread on this, but I guess this is the best place to put this. There is a very good article on the "crazy supporter" syndrome on Buck Naked Politics (http://bucknakedpolitics.typepad.com/buck_naked_politics/2007/10/are-pauls-suppo.html). The problems is the people who read and grok it aren't the ones who are causing the problems. Nevertheless, it is a good read.


"You're too stupid to vote for Ron Paul" isn't a great campaign slogan.

Having watched some local supporters almost get banned from volunteering in the GOP booth at a county fair, seeing a large MeetUp group dissolve because of this kind of behavior and seeing the recent orgy of self destruction here over the NH TV ad, I'm about ready to disengage from the grassroots and just spend time on my own handing out slim-jims, putting up signs and talking to my friends and family.

[ClampIt]

There may not be a "criminal conspiracy" media blackout (is it even possible to commit a crime by failing to cover someone?) but it would be extremely naive to claim that, at least before the Q3 results posted, Paul was not the target of a general media blackout. We have examples throughout this forum as proof.

While the media blackout is generally history, we are still dealing with the effects of the poll blackouts (name unmentioned or buried in poll choices).

PollingPoint's omission didn't seem required (it had a long list). Huckabee also wasn't there. I left a comment.

[JohnFromChicago]

I have to chime in here ... to bump the thread and to make my level headed voice of reason available to all. (sarcasm!)

I believe we were lied to about 9/11. I can't say it was an inside job, because that is a leap from the lies. Maybe they lied to cover up incredible incompetence or negligence. I don't know. But I know that it's political poison to discuss 9/11 CT in the same breath speaking about Ron Paul. It reflects poorly on him, his campaign and us. It's counter productive. You might as well campaign for Giuliani if you're going to mix 9/11 and MSM CT's with the Revolution. It's vitally important to focus our energy on promoting Dr Paul's campaign and platform. Freedom is popular!

If you believe these things, trust that a Paul Administration will shake lots of skeletons out of the closet ... many will surprise us, and some will disappoint. So relax about it ... and put your energy into putting a positive face on the Revolution, and get the man elected.

Imagine being free!!!!

My fiat $.02 - or rather my 1913 $.50

[Malakai0]

I agree with everything you said but one, I think electronic voting machines are still a big threat.

Not to our campaign specifically but to freedom to vote in the US. Check out some of the 'problems' with them in '04 and the '06 midterm election...

I'm in Florida so the electronic voting scandals the last few years are still a big big issue for me. Let me tell you another thing, the media (local and national) did NOT cover the scandals with the zeal they should have.


But whatever, like he says, win peoples minds with principle and philosophy, not smearing and conspiracies.
Even though we know there are conspiracies ^^

[Bradley in DC]

I agree with everything you said but one, I think electronic voting machines are still a big threat.

Not to our campaign specifically but to freedom to vote in the US. Check out some of the 'problems' with them in '04 and the '06 midterm election...

I'm in Florida so the electronic voting scandals the last few years are still a big big issue for me. Let me tell you another thing, the media (local and national) did NOT cover the scandals with the zeal they should have.


But whatever, like he says, win peoples minds with principle and philosophy, not smearing and conspiracies.
Even though we know there are conspiracies ^^


That's clearly a legit concern: there are pros and cons associated with every kind of technology of voting--the more important question is the quality controls of whatever system you're using (and, yes, there are--still--lots of problems in Florida starting with the voter rolls before you even get to the voting booth). My point is that none of us should come off as if officials are making decisions about voting methods in order to keep Dr. Paul out of office and reinforcing the boilerplate conspiracy stories some lazy reporters might be prone to churn out as one of there required stories on a deadline.

[Bradley in DC]

I have to chime in here ... to bump the thread and to make my level headed voice of reason available to all. (sarcasm!)

I believe we were lied to about 9/11. I can't say it was an inside job, because that is a leap from the lies. Maybe they lied to cover up incredible incompetence or negligence. I don't know. But I know that it's political poison to discuss 9/11 CT in the same breath speaking about Ron Paul. It reflects poorly on him, his campaign and us. It's counter productive. You might as well campaign for Giuliani if you're going to mix 9/11 and MSM CT's with the Revolution. It's vitally important to focus our energy on promoting Dr Paul's campaign and platform. Freedom is popular!

If you believe these things, trust that a Paul Administration will shake lots of skeletons out of the closet ... many will surprise us, and some will disappoint. So relax about it ... and put your energy into putting a positive face on the Revolution, and get the man elected.

Imagine being free!!!!

My fiat $.02 - or rather my 1913 $.50

Thanks for understanding about 9/11--more to my point, I get very protective when people try to use Dr. Paul for their own agendas (no matter what it is). Dr. Paul is not running on a truther platform and does not believe it was an inside job.

That said, yes, clearly, there are problems--very serious problems (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=325923#poststop)--with our intelligence communities.

[Ozwest]

Weren't Ron Paul supporters banned from this forum?

[Bradley in DC]

Weren't Ron Paul supporters banned from this forum?

I can't speak for the forum, but when I was a moderator the only person I banned was a prominent truther who actively posted 9/11 truth (often the same info copied and pasted in multiple posts in multiple threads) who made explicit threats to physical violence against another forum member. Even then, I banned him for one day only as a "cooling off" attempt. In that case, that individual was explicitly clear multiple times that he was here to promote his cause regardless of how it affected Dr. Paul's campaign (I don't think that counts as calling him a "Ron Paul supporter" so much as trying to highjack Dr. Paul's campaign for his own agenda not shared by Dr. Paul). Oh, and, yes, I banned dozens of others for spam, porn, viruses, etc.

[Channing]

Thanks for understanding about 9/11--more to my point, I get very protective when people try to use Dr. Paul for their own agendas (no matter what it is). Dr. Paul is not running on a truther platform and does not believe it was an inside job.

But he *does* support a new investigation into 9/11 as long as the victim's families are not satisfied with the current one (and they certainly aren't).

So, in a way, he does support what a lot of the 9/11 truth people are demanding, which is a new and independent investigation into 9/11.

[Bradley in DC]

But he *does* support a new investigation into 9/11 as long as the victim's families are not satisfied with the current one (and they certainly aren't).

So, in a way, he does support what a lot of the 9/11 truth people are demanding, which is a new and independent investigation into 9/11.

He clearly says 9/11 was not an inside job and is not running on a truther platform.

[reduen]

He clearly says 9/11 was not an inside job and is not running on a truther platform.


This is about the only thing that I am 100% with Bradley on! I wish all the 9/11 conspiracy people would go back to the hole they came from... :(

[Revolution9]

Everyone else there is a raving lunatic... I'm serious about that, many need to be on medication and seek professional help.
.

The issue is more than likely they are "medicated" BY professional "help".

HTH
Randy

[aroberso]

+1

Well said.

[Revolution9]

<snip[ high and lofty prose>
Buck up and show some confidence. We're the ones who are right, remember? Cut the conspiracy-laden martyr complex crap and grow a pair if you want us to succeed. I don't care if you think 9/11 was an inside job (it wasn't) or if the polls are "rigged" (they're not) or there's a criminal conspiracy media blackout (there isn't) or they're changing electoral rules to hurt Dr. Paul (they're not), [EDIT ADD: crying over alleged CFR delusions or ballot machines], or whatever your insecurities are that you're nuturing. Cut it out, we have real work to do. Don't fall into the oppositions' traps for us. <snip>

Hi Bradley.. You have spun in a circle and in the process delivered yourself a sockdolager of a reverse punch knockout blow. When you pick yourself up off the canvas and dust off the political euphemisms I want you to reflect on the hypocrisy injected into these words you chose to emphasize when compared to the high and lofty prose I snipped. You had momentum and then kaboom, the gambit collapsed like a house of cards as its political motivation unfolded.. But other than that..important words to remember once stripped of core hypocrisies. The truth remains.

Thank you for your reflection.

Best Regards
Randy

[aroberso]

Remember what drew us to Mr. Paul. His honesty, his integrity, and his MESSAGE.

Don't forget to project the same values that so inspried us, and don't forget that its all about the message of Mr. Paul.

[aroberso]

I've never heard any conspiracy theories as part of Mr. Paul's message.

[Informer]

Hi. I'm new to this site. (This is my first post.) I first started learning about Ron Paul earlier this year. It has been a while since I have had very much respect for most politicians but I seriously think that Dr. Paul is a good apple. I think he can really make a difference. There are a few issues I kinda slightly disagree with him on but he is the best candidate (either Democrat or Republican) that I am aware of.


About the original post, that was very well-written and very good advice. But I'm gonna play the contrariain here, just for a moment, if I may. There's one little thing:


Buck up and show some confidence. We're the ones who are right, remember? Cut the conspiracy-laden martyr complex crap and grow a pair if you want us to succeed. I don't care if you think 9/11 was an inside job (it wasn't) or if the polls are "rigged" (they're not) or there's a criminal conspiracy media blackout (there isn't) or they're changing electoral rules to hurt Dr. Paul (they're not), [EDIT ADD: crying over alleged CFR delusions or ballot machines], or whatever your insecurities are that you're nuturing. Cut it out, we have real work to do. Don't fall into the oppositions' traps for us.

I don't completely disagree, because I believe your main point was (correct me if I'm wrong) that no matter what we should all keep the focus where it belongs. And you are very correct about that.

But I had to point out that things like that do indeed go on. I always try to educate people about things like that. I'm not trying to start anything, or anything like that. But I did feel I should point that out. I know a few others have mentioned this (which BTW, I skim-read some of it... like I said earlier I'm kinda new but I have been reading pages here for a few days now...)

(BTW, FWIW, I also agree about 9/11 not being a inside job. I don't think it was. I do, however think that there were things about it they tried to cover up. Although I do also agree that that's all beside the point.)


And nonetheless I apprecate you and everybody else who is trying to do the right thing and make things good for everybody. You are appreciated. :)


Dr. Paul (presuming you read these forums) - Good luck tomorrow. And presuming you win (and win next year), good luck fixing our country. You are the best candidate that I am aware of. Good luck. :)

[luvu4ia]

Gas Prices; The ONE thing ALL Americans agree on!
I agree!!!! I think we should make & order business cards and have a campaign to place them in the MOST CONSERVATIVE PLACES YOU CAN FIND! Go to the gas stations in these areas. Go to your churches. Go to the church district. TELL them the good news that someone who already agrees with them is running for President and they don't have to trust in the word of Pat Robertson and wait on Guliani (sell out) to appoint who they want on the court. We need to play up the Pro-Life in the church community. It is his duty as a medical doctor to preserve life.

The point is, get some friends together and when you feel the bite in your wallet at the gas station, leave a stack of calling cards! Know that every hard-working American feels the pinch of gas prices.

I encourage you to introduce and re-introduce to others the Republican Party by letting people meet the candidate before his party. Eg Ron Paul 2008 and give the campaign website. This is what I am doing since I am quite broke but a hard worker. We need change. No better place to display that than in America's cash drain: Gas.

Also reach out. Make this an international concern. We care about their leadership, why shouldn't they care about ours?

[paulitics]

I've never heard any conspiracy theories as part of Mr. Paul's message.

North American Union, Federal Reserve not as advertised, "cia mischief". They really aren't conspiracy "theories" though, just the dark side of politics, that the media doesn't cover, and instead brings you Britney Spears' bald head, and Paris Hilton's scandalous ventures. Thank God, some people are finally seeing through it, and are supporting Dr. Paul.

[Mark]

Buck up and show some confidence. We're the ones who are right, remember? Cut the conspiracy-laden martyr complex crap and grow a pair if you want us to succeed. I don't care if you think 9/11 was an inside job (it wasn't) or if the polls are "rigged" (they're not) or there's a criminal conspiracy media blackout (there isn't) or they're changing electoral rules to hurt Dr. Paul (they're not), [EDIT ADD: crying over alleged CFR delusions or ballot machines], or whatever your insecurities are that you're nuturing. Cut it out, we have real work to do. Don't fall into the oppositions' traps for us.

Yeah, I have to agree, this post is very well written until this section.

You ruin it here Bradley, with the "Holier Than Thou" attitude,
personal attacks, and insults.

And it really makes it hard to take advice seriously,
when someone doesn't seem to care to take their own advice seriously.
Or, at least, be capable of grasping the concepts they're espousing.

The last time I checked, no one has all the answers,
and it seems that you, still have some more real work to do,
on grasping and following your own advice.

Good start though, but, don't stop now, because you still have 'a ways to go'.

[1town]

I'm a Ron Paul supporter, and you can be damn sure i approve this message.

[mmink15]

Bravo

[LibertyEagle]

bump

[hawkeyenick]

I've said it before and I'll say it again

LIBERTARIANS CONTROL THE INTERNET!

Why don't we have our own little conspiracy to take this country back...and let's continue to use the internet to do it

[tmg19103]

Some good points, but while I am not a conspiracy person, I would be insulted by what you had to say if I held certain viewpoints AND one thing I will say that the majority of us have a distrust for the government one one, if not many levels, as well a distrust of the MSM. It is RP's message that drives me, but a healthy distaste for our current form of government and the MSM also certainly motivates me.

With all due respect, and even given that I agree with your overall message, get over yourself.

[atilla]

[U]Cut the conspiracy-laden martyr complex crap and grow a pair if you want us to succeed.

shall the women also grow a pair?

[disciple]

shall the women also grow a pair?

It all depends on what are you planning to do with them.:)

[LibertyEagle]

Some good points, but while I am not a conspiracy person, I would be insulted by what you had to say if I held certain viewpoints AND one thing I will say that the majority of us have a distrust for the government one one, if not many levels, as well a distrust of the MSM. It is RP's message that drives me, but a healthy distaste for our current form of government and the MSM also certainly motivates me.

With all due respect, and even given that I agree with your overall message, get over yourself.

The bottom line is that talking about conspiracies turns off the vast majority of Americans. I don't agree with everything that Bradley wrote, but the general tone of it, I certainly do.

We are trying to win an election and what we do or say, reflects on Ron Paul. So, if we run around using profanity on this board, or elsewhere where we are campaigning for him, it brings the entire campaign down. Likewise with conspiracy theories. People can only handle so much at a time. While we may want to shove everything down their throats that many of us have studied for years, it will NOT work. All we will succeed in, is driving most people away.

If we stay on focus, represent Ron Paul the best that we each can, and work like ever lovin' heck, we just might stand a chance of pulling this off.

[Corydoras]

I'm waiting for GovtPig to show up here and agree with your excellent post and remind us all not to be violent.
:rolleyes:
Well, it IS an excellent post, Bradley.
:)

[tmg19103]

The bottom line is that talking about conspiracies turns off the vast majority of Americans. I don't agree with everything that Bradley wrote, but the general tone of it, I certainly do.

We are trying to win an election and what we do or say, reflects on Ron Paul. So, if we run around using profanity on this board, or elsewhere where we are campaigning for him, it brings the entire campaign down. Likewise with conspiracy theories. People can only handle so much at a time. While we may want to shove everything down their throats that many of us have studied for years, it will NOT work. All we will succeed in, is driving most people away.

If we stay on focus, represent Ron Paul the best that we each can, and work like ever lovin' heck, we just might stand a chance of pulling this off.

I agree with everything you have to say. I just think Bradley should have listened to his own message and not personally attacked people who hold different views. I don't agree with the 9/11 conspiracy theory, but I have defended Truthers on this board to have a right to have an opinion - BUT to keep it out of the election as it is NOT part of RP's platform.

Bradley just slammed people who hold certain beliefs and insuated they are not welcome. They are a part of this movement and I welcome them. It's not my place to tell them they are wrong, though, like Bradley did. However, since RP said 9/11 was not an inside job and since it does not go over well with the general public, I have and will continue to strongly suggest to Truthers that they keep those beliefs out of the grassroots effort to elect RP. BUT again, I respect their right to have their views. Bradley did not in his post.

[Bradley in DC]

Bradley just slammed people who hold certain beliefs and insuated they are not welcome. They are a part of this movement and I welcome them. It's not my place to tell them they are wrong, though, like Bradley did. However, since RP said 9/11 was not an inside job and since it does not go over well with the general public, I have and will continue to strongly suggest to Truthers that they keep those beliefs out of the grassroots effort to elect RP. BUT again, I respect their right to have their views. Bradley did not in his post.

I have posted hundreds of times here that I welcome all pushing Dr. Paul and his agenda and loudly praised several Truther friends doing great work for Dr. Paul. I made my own personal statement. I asked everyone to respect Dr. Paul's views when representing him. That's it.

[tmg19103]

I have posted hundreds of times here that I welcome all pushing Dr. Paul and his agenda and loudly praised several Truther friends doing great work for Dr. Paul. I made my own personal statement. I asked everyone to respect Dr. Paul's views when representing him. That's it.

And as I said, I agree with your overall message. I just do not think it was necessary to fuel any flames by telling people they are wrong - even if it is your personal opinion. I think the message should, as you said, stick to RP's platform - and that could have been stated without insulting the viewpoints of others. You can do so like I did in my above post where I stated I don't agree with Truthers, but I respect their right to have their views, but to keep it away from RP because RP himself has said it was not an inside job - NOT because my almighty self said so. This is about the greater good, which your OP states, but you lost me by attacking Truthers and people who believe in other non-mainstream viewpoints. Now you state that you have "praised" Truthers in the past, yet you just posted they are dead wrong. That does not win the type of support we all want for RP and it is as if you are looking down your nose at Truthers by "praising" them even though you believe they are dead wrong in in a belief system that is very important to them personally.

Interestingly, while RP has said 9/11 is not an inside job, he has also never said Truthers were wrong. I don't think that is because RP secretly believes 9/11 was an inside job, but because he respects the right of others to have personal opinions.

[theswedishchef]

Buck up and show some confidence. We're the ones who are right, remember? Cut the conspiracy-laden martyr complex crap and grow a pair if you want us to succeed. I don't care if you think 9/11 was an inside job (it wasn't) or if the polls are "rigged" (they're not) or there's a criminal conspiracy media blackout (there isn't) or they're changing electoral rules to hurt Dr. Paul (they're not), [EDIT ADD: crying over alleged CFR delusions or ballot machines], or whatever your insecurities are that you're nuturing. Cut it out, we have real work to do. Don't fall into the oppositions' traps for us.


I agree in part of this message. This Part, however,I can't agree on....Where do you draw the line and who hold the chapstick?

If I ask you, you might say CFR or who was behind 911 (although they are facts www.cfr.org or disputed
"Former Italian President 911 was an Inside job") (http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2007/12/former-president-of-italy-911-was.html)
might I suggest you do some reading?

If I ask the guy on your right (or a hillbilly at CNN/youtube debate) he might say NAU or NAFTA Super Highway
(although they are facts or disputed Ron Paul on NAU and NAFTA Super Highway (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_WjiREvZ88&feature=related))
might I suggest you do some reading?

If I ask....lets say Rudy Guiliani he would say "they attack us because they hate our freedom" and that it has nothing
to do with the foreign policy of the USA and it's blowback (Although they are facts or disputed Ron Paul on blowback (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD7dnFDdwu0))
might I suggest you join Rudy and do some reading?


There is not even a snowballs chans in hell that you know a 100% of the answers
to these questions, neither do anyone else. What is why we all are entitled to our
opinions which actually is a heavy part of a persons liberty, and as far as I
interpret it is the bulk of what Ron Paul is preaching.

So ofcourse you are entitled to your oppinion, especially to say that you think talk
about these things dont help the effort to get Ron Paul elected. I can agree to that
this since the general masses think these things are freightening (and so it is) and
,hence, they will close their eyes to this instead of opening them to ron paul.

But please don't lower yourself to the level of the MSM pundits by claiming
everyone else to be wrong and "insecure" and you the beholder of all that is truth.

[theswedishchef]

I'm waiting for GovtPig to show up here and agree with your excellent post and remind us all not to be violent.
:rolleyes:
Well, it IS an excellent post, Bradley.
:)

Not really, I would actually label it disrespectful.

[Proemio]

...
We are trying to win an election and what we do or say, reflects on Ron Paul. ...

You realize, that you are proposing - a - - OMG - - - conspiracy?

They come in many forms, silence included. As soon as more than one person coordinate action for a specific purpose, it's by definition a conspiracy. Doing it with a whole movement is absolutely no different than what the establishment - MSM included - are supposedly not doing.

Also, outside the official campaign, nobody can possibly be an "ambassador representing Ron Paul". They can 'only' represent themselves, and why they support the man and his message in general - much better, more believable and thus more effective in any case.

The thread is insulting in many ways, not least the insult that supporters need unsolicited coaching on their approaches, which generally give the other NY and DC insiders bouts of fits. Other insiders, because the whole thing started with an "appeal to authority" based on "I'm an insider, therefore I know". Most reasonable (confident?) people ignored it - somehow it's back...

[LibertyEagle]

Look Proemio, I know what a conspiracy is and I have my own beliefs about a few things that we could talk about in PMs, but this is Ron Paul's Presidential campaign. And the reality is that bringing up conspiracies does not resonate with the vast majority of the American public. We need their votes to win. So, you have to make a choice. Would you rather further public knowledge of your own personal conspiracy pet peeve, or do you want to win this election?

I bumped this thread because of the uptick in all the cursing and calling the media "shills", etc. It may very well feel good at the time, but people also need to understand the consequences of their actions. Maybe once upon a time, this forum was not widely read by anyone but Ron's most ardent supporters. The same is no longer true. The name of this forum has been widely publicized on Liberty cards, other promotional materials, a nation-wide USA Today ad and now by the MSM. We have reporters lurking on this site, supporters from other campaigns and a number of people who are trying to find out more about Ron Paul by listening to what WE are doing here.

We already know that we have run off people that googled Ron Paul and clicked on this site to find out more about him. They were appalled at the language they saw on this site. For one example, I know for a FACT that we have run away quite a few Christians. Yet, there seem to be people here that just don't understand why Dr. Paul isn't drawing from this crowd, more than he is. THINK!!! We DO have a good chance of getting many more Christians on-board, but NOT if we do not start acting like ambassadors for Ron Paul. If you would not say something in front of Carol Paul, do not say it here!

[tmg19103]

Look Proemio, I know what a conspiracy is and I have my own beliefs about a few things that we could talk about in PMs, but this is Ron Paul's Presidential campaign. And the reality is that bringing up conspiracies does not resonate with the vast majority of the American public. We need their votes to win. So, you have to make a choice. Would you rather further public knowledge of your own personal conspiracy pet peeve, or do you want to win this election?

I bumped this thread because of the uptick in all the cursing and calling the media "shills", etc. It may very well feel good at the time, but people also need to understand the consequences of their actions. Maybe once upon a time, this forum was not widely read by anyone but Ron's most ardent supporters. The same is no longer true. The name of this forum has been widely publicized on Liberty cards, other promotional materials, a nation-wide USA Today ad and now by the MSM. We have reporters lurking on this site, supporters from other campaigns and a number of people who are trying to find out more about Ron Paul by listening to what WE are doing here.

We already know that we have run off people that googled Ron Paul and clicked on this site to find out more about him. They were appalled at the language they saw on this site. For one example, I know for a FACT that we have run away quite a few Christians. Yet, there seem to be people here that just don't understand why Dr. Paul isn't drawing from this crowd, more than he is. THINK!!! We DO have a good chance of getting many more Christians on-board, but NOT if we do not start acting like ambassadors for Ron Paul. If you would not say something in front of Carol Paul, do not say it here!

QFT

[Proemio]

Look Proemio, ...

Ha - while we are on a lecturing thread...

The day after this thread was started, and after having been given even further authority by making it sticky, Brian felt obliged to make a thread of apology of sorts because some guy with an idea was run off by the nanny-brigade. Remember that? On that occasion, I wrote my only ever PM to an Administrator on any political forum, and that only after a lengthy deliberation. Lucky for some, it was not even acknowledged.

Having been part of Admin teams myself - still am - and having a fair understanding of political forum dynamics, it was obvious that we just witnessed the inevitable cause and effect of an unlucky move. (The sticky part, not the thread itself, as I'm totally opposed to banning or any other form of censure, except for the usual direct threats.)

The result of the bad scene? The nanny-brigade felt empowered and 'officially' supported to shit on someone's non-conventional initiative like they would not have dared a day earlier; hence Brian's "never before" thread. The movement lost an activist member; at least the forum did. Was his a great idea? I have no clue and we will never know. What I do know, is that officially sanctioned, sanctimonious lecturing threads like this one, dissipate energy. Without energy, there is no movement. Without movement there are no supporters to run off.

If you imagine that you can - in mid-stream - transform this thing into a vanilla political action, you will be even more disappointed. The reason the other campaigns are totally unable to emulate even partially what happens around Ron Paul, is because they are condemned to a lock-step, on-message existence by necessity. They would like nothing better than to see us more formally organized, lead from the top and uniform. With their resources, they'd have use disappeared in a week.

This, as you put it, is not Ron Paul's campaign, no matter how many times it is repeated. It can't be, and luckily for TheCampaign and us all, at least Ron Paul himself appears to fully understand, and even celebrate this reality. Books could be written - and have - to support why it can't be any other way. In shorthand; it's every activist's campaign with Ron Paul providing the focus. Neither would go far against the well controlled established order without the other. It is in the self-interest of each individual's 'campaign' to give their very best according to circumstance, and I have absolute faith that they all do - the many genuine ones, that is. If they have doubts, they ask for advice, as happened frequently earlier on. From where I sit, I have seen more serious mistakes made following "consensus"(1), than from the odd individual effort going wrong. And that is logical as well, because consensus implies many, and therefore has more weight.

Of course there are media reps and agents from other campaigns here. There are also spooks and members of other government 'services' as well, and agents of the usual 'special' interests. They are usually among the first to sign up with any new political instrument; if for no other reason than to keep an eye on it. That's how they insure the "continuation of government", after all - it's their job. There is nothing conspiratorial about this. It's normal prudence on their part and basic common sense.

Which leads finally to this: The appalling posts you refer to as having run off good people and potential voters, are mostly posts made precisely for that purpose, and there is absolutely zip you or anyone else can do about it. One occasion was so obvious (and inept), I could not believe it actually worked. There are also the regular occurrences of 'good people' meant to be run off. The best option is always clean air, meaning a free enough environment to allow individuals to point out the oddities, without being sanctioned for supposed bad manners(2). Because that can go spectacularly wrong, it can get a bit messy at times, but...

It's the controlled and manipulated, supposed "politics-as-usual" that are fundamentally messy, ugly and thoroughly corrupt*.
What we have the privilege of being around for is about as close to political paradise as it gets.

I think it's fair to say that there is ample room for your views as well as for mine, plus many others. This thing has a life of it's own and won't care one bit about ours - another good thing...

References:
1. for Ron Paul's view on the fraud of 'consensus', I offer this:
http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=799
There, you will also read "We can expect most of the media-directed propaganda to be designed to speed up and broaden the role of the federal government in our lives and the economy. ..." Not that this refers to a conspiracy in any way...
Dr. Kissinger, G.M. and his age old 'Realpolitik' and it's alter-ego 'consensus-building' IS what made possible precisely what we are trying to stop - and we will...

2. a Ron Paul quote fitting nicely with this:
Samuel Adams, likewise, warned future generations. He referred to "good manners" as the vital ingredient a free society needs to survive. Adams said: "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt."
i.e. Bad Manners = Corrupt Manners, not relative 'softness' of language...

[FreeTraveler]

If you would not say something in front of Carol Paul, do not say it here!

QFT - this, to me, is a bigger issue than truthers, CFR, Alex Jones, or any conspiracy talk. My mom's 87 and I'll talk CFR with her... but if I used the language I hear here, she'd wash my mouth out with soap... and I'm 55!!!

PLEASE remember we want votes from everyone from 18 to 118, and the vast majority of that age range is turned off to a forum if the language is disrespectful or crude. Many of the people visiting here MAY BE SEEING THEIR FIRST FORUM, and after hearing all the MSM garbage about on-line predators, it won't take much to scare them off... and that may cost the good doctor a vote as well.

If you wouldn't use a word in front of Carol Paul, or your own grandmother, don't use it here, please!

[kevinblack]

This is the single most important post on this site.

STICKY THIS PLEASE!!!

[Goldwater Conservative]

I don't care if you think 9/11 was an inside job (it wasn't) or if the polls are "rigged" (they're not) or there's a criminal conspiracy media blackout (there isn't) or they're changing electoral rules to hurt Dr. Paul (they're not)

If you're talking about grassroots infighting, I agree. However, I do argue against the polls and mainstream media when trying to convert people, because I find the "he can't win" factor is often a big one.

[majinkoola]

Bradley in DC should have said to keep your conspiracy beliefs to yourself because it hurts the campaign. Stating that these theories aren't true for sure will alienate supporters who believe that they are. And until you show 100% evidence (you can't), then keep YOUR beliefs to yourself.

[tttar]

"Everyone else is inconsistent in their views. Our challenge is to find the issues where we agree with each person, get them understand the principle by which they came to that understanding, and urge them to apply that principle more broadly."

Exactly! I've thought about that for years, using almost the same words.

[parke]

bump

[raystone]

BradleyinDC, what needs to happen in the official campaign/staff for Dr. Paul to win ?

[RobS]

This is such a great post, I hadn't seen it before.

[phree]

Bradley, U D 1 !

[grizzums]

Wow. I am on my typical hour and a half commute home from Seattle to Camano Is...

..I had popped on tchai 1812 that I burned online the other night... Stuck bumper to bumper here just past the ship canal bridge.

Crazy beautiful full moon out tonight...

Anyway, I grab my bberry and jump on here to see if there is anything of interest...and I just read Bradleys post for the first time (had never seen this thead before)... Now, I sit and ponder some of those words of wisdom on my drive home...inspiration Bradley. As my frustration with different aspects of this campaign has mounted in recent days...this is about the best thing I could read.

Thank you!

[phree]

bumped in support of logic and discipline

[SteveMartin]

Cut the conspiracy-laden martyr complex crap and grow up if you want us to succeed. I don't care if you think 9/11 was an inside job (it wasn't) or if the polls are "rigged" (they're not) or there's a criminal conspiracy media blackout (there isn't) or they're changing electoral rules to hurt Dr. Paul (they're not) or whatever your insecurities are that you're nuturing. Cut it out, we have real work to do. Don't fall into the oppositions' traps for us.

Bradley,

You know I have a lot of respect for you and your opinions, but the above is just pure opinion and it serves as a further marginalization of those of us who disagree with your opinions here. No one (least of all myself) is arguing that these should be issues that we focus on or discuss when talking to new potential supports of Ron Paul. I have never done that.

However, you need to tone down the rhetoric a bit. You are DEAD WRONG about 9-11, and so is Dr. Paul if he truly believes what he has said about it recently. In my considered opinion, as one of the very first to challenge the government "conspiracy theory," there is no way a person with a good mind who examines the issue for more than a couple days of concentrated study can come away with any opinion other than that the government story is a total fairy tale.

Please do not marginalize folks like myself who also have given much to this campaign.

[Jae0]

Shouldnt we all just play nice, get people on our side, and then once Paul is elected we can tear eachother apart over our differing opinions on things?

[Bradley in DC]

Bradley,

You know I have a lot of respect for you and your opinions, but the above is just pure opinion and it serves as a further marginalization of those of us who disagree with your opinions here.

Please do not marginalize folks like myself who also have given much to this campaign.

Hi Steve,

As you know, the respect is mutual. But this post was to point out that this is Dr. Paul's campaign, not our own. In the context of our promoting his cause (we do not have to agree with him on everything), we all are best served sticking to his script. The purpose, which should be clear in the full body of the rant, is to bring us all aboard on his train not to marginalize anyone--except those who would want to highjack his rEVOLution for their own causes. There are, as I've posted elsewhere numerous times (and to which Dr. Paul agrees), serious problems with our intelligence communities (see all of my Sibel Edmonds posts). That said, I reiterate that it's important for our hopes for success for us to stick with promoting Dr. Paul.

[robert4rp08]

tldr;

everyone needs to become a precinct leader

[Jae0]

tldr;

everyone needs to become a precinct leader

I think we can all agree on that.

[Bradley in DC]

Shouldnt we all just play nice, get people on our side, and then once Paul is elected we can tear eachother apart over our differing opinions on things?

Let's hope we can be so self-disciplined--and successful!

[Jae0]

Let's hope we can be so self-disciplined--and successful!

Haha. We should just have a plan. Everytime someone on the board, instead of arguing with them, donate $5 to Ron Paul. He's have billions then.

[Gimme Some Truth]

Here here! (apart from the denial of the media blackout/spin - as it is self evident , not only with Paul but in the past ... however, there is no point in crying about it. Grow a pair and make the most of what he have and what we have done and get out there and be nice, and talk to people about Paul and the message - we need converts not people being frightened away from Paul because of some of his supporters or because they are scared to become a supporter thro fear of being ridiculed. show people that you are "mainstream" and respectable. Have them admire you and want to be like you! )

[SteveMartin]

Hi Steve,

As you know, the respect is mutual. But this post was to point out that this is Dr. Paul's campaign, not our own. In the context of our promoting his cause (we do not have to agree with him on everything), we all are best served sticking to his script. The purpose, which should be clear in the full body of the rant, is to bring us all aboard on his train not to marginalize anyone--except those who would want to highjack his rEVOLution for their own causes. There are, as I've posted elsewhere numerous times (and to which Dr. Paul agrees), serious problems with our intelligence communities (see all of my Sibel Edmonds posts). That said, I reiterate that it's important for our hopes for success for us to stick with promoting Dr. Paul.

Agreed.

Peace.

[Ronin]

bump for post-2/5 direction