Brown Just Now In Press Con Calls for NATIONAL HEALTH PLAN

[ItsTime]

We are screwed. He also sounds like his seat is up for bribery by the Obama admin. I hope someone is youtubing this.

[Cinderella]

i didnt hear him say we needed a national plan...he said that here in mass we have insurance...98% here is insured so we dont need the gov trying to give us a national plan...he said that each state should be able to decide how to insure its citizens and share the ideas with one another

[ItsTime]

i didnt hear him say we needed a national plan...he said that here in mass we have insurance...98% here is insured so we dont need the gov trying to give us a national plan...he said that each state should be able to decide how to insure its citizens and share the ideas with one another

You must have missed it because he clearly said it.

[nobody's_hero]

I didn't see it, but let me guess what was said or will be said at some point, to paraphrase:

'We need to get democrats and republicans in Washington to work together for the purpose of bipartisanship, and not let the American people down on the problems within our health system.'

In other words, "Freedom, brace yourself for the impact of compromise." :(

[Cinderella]

what he did say was that if we have our state insured we shouldnt have to fix it because we dont have a problem with insurance...he said that the states should be able to take care of their insurance without the federal gov...BUT that if the federal gov came up with a better plan, better than what we currently have (hes speaking only about mass) then hed consider being open about it

[FrankRep]

We are screwed. He also sounds like his seat is up for bribery by the Obama admin. I hope someone is youtubing this.

More information please.

[ItsTime]

"we must offer everyone a plan" paraphrasing someone just changed the channel so I can not rewind my dvr. sorry

[ItsTime]

what he did say was that if we have our state insured we shouldnt have to fix it because we dont have a problem with insurance...he said that the states should be able to take care of their insurance without the federal gov...BUT that if the federal gov came up with a better plan, better than what we currently have (hes speaking only about mass) then hed consider being open about it

We are talking about two different spots on his speech.

[itshappening]

Surprise!

Just another version of big government. I warned you and called it correctly.

[ItsTime]

Surprise!

Just another version of big government. I warned you and called it correctly.

I dont think it was a secret.

[Cinderella]

"we must offer everyone a plan" paraphrasing someone just changed the channel so I can not rewind my dvr. sorry

im not trying to argue but where in that sentence does he say he wants a national plan? he basically said that in mass our Romney care is working for us and we dont need to switch to OBAMA care........................for now...


almost everyone here in mass has a plan and if you dont you get taxed and have large hospital bills..

[itshappening]

he is another Snowe, they will bribe him

[FrankRep]

Surprise!

Just another version of big government. I warned you and called it correctly.

It's Massachusetts. A Constitutionalist will be killed.

[jmdrake]

what he did say was that if we have our state insured we shouldnt have to fix it because we dont have a problem with insurance...he said that the states should be able to take care of their insurance without the federal gov...BUT that if the federal gov came up with a better plan, better than what we currently have (hes speaking only about mass) then hed consider being open about it

So then he's open to national health insurance.

[Cinderella]

So then he's open to national health insurance.

yes of course he is! im just arguing with the OP who is quoting him as saying he wanted a national plan...he never said that...he basically said our romney care is working here because 98% of us are insured and that all states should be able to achieve this because we are the example that it can be done...he said we didnt need a national healthcare plan here in mass because what we have is working (even tho its so corrupt) ....he then said that if the fed gov came up with a better plan than what we have that hed be open for it

[pcosmar]

What did you (supporters) expect?

More of the same from the team players. :(

[Cinderella]

i voted for Kennedy, though it didnt make much difference. they didnt even have him on tv as a candidate! i know we will get obama care no matter that Brown was elected...someone else will just be exempt from the healthcare plan and bribed with some $$ and then theyll vote for the bill...case closed...welcome to the war on your body

[FrankRep]

What did you (supporters) expect?

More of the same from the team players. :(

It's Massachusetts. A Constitutionalist will be killed.

[JamesButabi]

yes of course he is! im just arguing with the OP who is quoting him as saying he wanted a national plan...he never said that...he basically said our romney care is working here because 98% of us are insured and that all states should be able to achieve this because we are the example that it can be done...

Everyone I know in MA hates their healthcare system. Do you personally think its a model to follow?

[ItsTime]

Everyone I know in MA hates their healthcare system. Do you personally think its a model to follow?

And its still a unconstitutional mandate.

[Cinderella]

Everyone I know in MA hates their healthcare system. Do you personally think its a model to follow?

did you not read my above post where i stated it was corrupt? here in mass we basically have obama care...everyone must have insurance, if you dont you get taxed...our private insurance is outrageously high...guess what my tax dollars pay for?! it allows my drug and alcohol detoxing patients to have unlimited amounts of detox, all at our expense! these patients use our hospitals like free hotels! our tax dollars pay for the stupid ignorant mothers who get pregnant to get more welfare benefits and free insurance! i hate mass health insurance and never have i stated that we should be the example to follow...

[tangent4ronpaul]

You must have missed it because he clearly said it.

I must have missed it too because state plan is what he was emphasizing and I've heard him talk about it on other occasions.

he also made it very clear that he's not for sale!

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

"we must offer everyone a plan" paraphrasing someone just changed the channel so I can not rewind my dvr. sorry

offer everyone
vs
we must get everyone insured

voluntary vs mandatory - hell of a difference!

-t

[ItsTime]

I must have missed it too because state plan is what he was emphasizing and I've heard him talk about it on other occasions.

he also made it very clear that he's not for sale!

-t


offer everyone
vs
we must get everyone insured

voluntary vs mandatory - hell of a difference!

-t

lol The Mass plan IS mandatory.

And to OFFER everyone means to OFFER them ie make sure there is a government plan to be offered. The government can not offer them something they dont have to give.

[RyanRSheets]

I like that he's advocating a 10th Amendment approach to an extent, but I don't like that he's advocating socialized health care. This is exactly how Canada got itself into this mess.

[Aratus]

SCOTT BROWN's N*H*P = BarackOBAMACARE...?

SCOTT BROWN's N*H*P = MitchMcCONNELLcare...?

SCOTT BROWN's N*H*P = OlympiaSNOWEcare...?

SCOTT BROWN's N*H*P = massMittROMNEYcare...?

SCOTT BROWN's N*H*P = ALLofTHEaboveCARE...?

-----------------------------------------------------------------???

O! big purple hissy fit, in my own humble opinion
he now sees HYMM!self as MitchMcConnell*LITE....!!!

[tangent4ronpaul]

Romney care is failing... there is price gouging, they were looking at closing a major hospital because it was bankrups, it's the state with the highest per-capita of doctors and time to appointment has gotten longer and longer, and I heard after forcing everyone onto the program they were kicking non-US born citizens off it to save costs...

When it started 70% liked it, now 30% like it.

One reason Mass really hates it is that they already pay for health care and if Obama care comes in they would be taxed for everyone elses health care.

It's not a plan to follow.

-t

[jmdrake]

yes of course he is! im just arguing with the OP who is quoting him as saying he wanted a national plan...he never said that...he basically said our romney care is working here because 98% of us are insured and that all states should be able to achieve this because we are the example that it can be done...he said we didnt need a national healthcare plan here in mass because what we have is working (even tho its so corrupt) ....he then said that if the fed gov came up with a better plan than what we have that hed be open for it

Here's the problem. Brown has just admitted that he would be open to national healtcare if something "better" than Romneycare was found. If he was honest (which I don't think is the case) it's probably not hard to find something better than Romneycare. But even if it's not, what about states that don't have any kind of universal health insurance? Would Brown be willing to impose Romneycare on states that didn't do anything because he thought it was "better"? If Brown said "If the federal government came up with something better the state of MA would be free to adopt it, but the feds can't impose it" that would be different.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Who controls the puppets in the Senate? Corporate Hospitals, Big Pharma, and HC Insurance companies. It's a Fascist government and the conspiracy of the Republican Party and that Industry Sector reflects how all ofthe GOP voted against the Cheap Import Drugs Act of 2007.

With Thad Cochran's "Poison Pill" legislation that rules all import drugs UNSAFE, except for US manaufacturers drugs coming in from CHina. In the Deal... the Drug Industry paid the FDA $350 Million under some "Unsafe Monitoring" Bullshit excuse.

Scott Brown has been indoctrinated into the Egotistical, Narcissistic, Sociopathic Club called the US Senate. It appears the only 2 choices in this country are the Maxists or Fascists.

[LittleLightShining]

Tube?

[tangent4ronpaul]

Tube?

http://c-span.org/Watch/Media/2010/01/20/HP/R/28644/Republican+Scott+Brown+wins+MA+Senate+Seat.aspx

-t

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

God I hate being right all the time.

[Matt Collins]

http://c-span.org/Watch/Media/2010/01/20/HP/R/28644/Republican+Scott+Brown+wins+MA+Senate+Seat.aspx (http://c-span.org/Watch/Media/2010/01/20/HP/R/28644/Republican+Scott+Brown+wins+MA+Senate+Seat.aspx)

-t
What time in the video? :confused:

[jmdrake]

Romney care is failing... there is price gouging, they were looking at closing a major hospital because it was bankrups, it's the state with the highest per-capita of doctors and time to appointment has gotten longer and longer, and I heard after forcing everyone onto the program they were kicking non-US born citizens off it to save costs...


Which means it shouldn't be too hard for someone to come up with a plan that is, on paper at least, better than Romneycare.

Which means if Scott Brown was being honest, he would be "open" to such a plan and be willing to impose it on all of the states, not just Massachusetts.

Note that this speech was made after the election. Scott Brown doesn't have to play to "moderate" voters at this time. So why would he say he's open to federal universal healthcare after getting elected on a mandate to oppose federal universal healthcare? Note also that at this point there's nothing to be gained by covering for this guy. (Except some don't want to hear an "I told you so".) I still think a Brown victory was better than nothing. I've been enjoying rubbing it in the face of the fascists at the Whole Foods forums who are still crowing over John Mackey stepping down from being CEO. (He's still chairman). It's great for proving the point that Obama did not get a mandate for all of the crap he's trying to do. But we still gotta watch this guy like a hawk.

[Toureg89]

What time in the video? :confused:

about 5 minutes into it.

he clearly says he would vote in favor on a bill based on MA's current reforms.

[Matt Collins]

http://www.centerforsmallgovernment.com/feature/warning-to-tea-party-activists-and-supporters-town-hall-meeting-protesters-and-tax-cutters-living-in-massachusetts-who-are-even-considering-voting-for-scott-brown-for-us-senate-january-19th/



We’re Carla Howell and Michael Cloud, Tea Party activists and the 2 most prominent Tax Cut activists in Massachusetts for the last 10 years. We co-sponsored and ran Ballot Question 1 to END the state income tax in 2002 and 2008. We are running this year’s Ballot Initiative to Roll Back the Sales Tax from 6.25% to 3%.


We know every single real tax cutter in Massachusetts. We know every major phony and fake friend of taxpayers. Every slick, smooth-talking

chameleon who tries to blend in with tax cutters – while he VOTES FOR TAX HIKES, VOTES FOR PROPERTY TAX INCREASES (Prop. 2 ½ overrides), and CAMPAIGNS AGAINST and VOTES AGAINST A MAJOR TAX CUT.


Scott Brown is the worst fake tax-cutter in the Massachusetts legislature. And a fake ally is more dangerous than an open enemy.


“By their fruits shall ye know them,” counsels the Scriptures. “Actions speak louder than words,” says the proverb. And, correcting Emerson, “What you do speaks so loudly I cannot hear a word you say.”


We must judge Scott Brown on his political actions during the last 11 years.


Fact: Election Eve, Monday, November 3rd, 2008: Scott Brown went on WTKK RADIO and urged voters to VOTE AGAINST Ballot Question 1, to END the Massachusetts state income tax. Scott Brown allied himself with the National and state Teachers Unions and SEIU (the government employees union that often works with ACORN) – against the taxpayers of Massachusetts.


Fact: Scott Brown has been a state legislator for the last 11 years, but we can’t find a single tax cut bill authored, sponsored, or introduced by him that would cut as little as 5% of state government revenue.


Fact: Scott Brown has been a state legislator for the last 11 years, but we can’t find even one spending cut bill authored, sponsored, or introduced by him that would cut as little as 5% of total state government spending.


Fact: Scott Brown has been a state legislator for the last 11 years, but we can’t find a single waste reduction bill authored, sponsored, or introduced by him that would cut waste as little as 5% of total spending. Polling shows that Massachusetts voters estimate that 41% of their taxes are wasted, but Scott Brown can’t even find 5% government waste.


Fact: The biggest tax and spending issue facing Massachusetts this year is our ballot initiative to roll back the sales tax from 6.25% to 3%. Yet we cannot find a single news account or mention at Scott Brown’s legislative or campaign web sites where he takes a stand on this issue. He refuses to publicly endorse or campaign for our ballot initiative to roll back the sales tax — even though it would give Massachusetts families 32,929 new private sector jobs.


Fact: Scott Brown proudly proclaims that he was a key part of the team that designed RomneyCare, the Massachusetts health care reform bill endorsed and backed by Senator Ted Kennedy. Scott Brown helped write, voted for, and endorses the bill provision that forces all Massachusetts workers to buy medical insurance – or pay a penalty tax. (Remember when Bill Clinton swore that oral sex from Monica Lewinsky wasn’t sex? Scott Brown, a lawyer, swears that this mandatory fee paid to the government is NOT a tax! )


And now, Scott Brown’s provision requiring everyone to buy medical insurance – or pay a mandatory penalty tax – is a key part of the Nancy Pelosi-Harry Reid-Barack Obama Health Care Reform Bill.


Scott Brown campaigns against everything the Tea Party Movement represents. Brown opposes and votes against as little as a 5% tax cut. He opposes and votes against cutting government spending or waste by even 5%. He designed and voted for a key part of the Pelosi-Reid-Obama Health Care bill now being voted on in Washington.

[Matt Collins]

Scott Brown says 5:00 into the video:
http://c-span.org/Watch/Media/2010/01/20/HP/R/28644/Republican+Scott+Brown+wins+MA+Senate+Seat.aspx

"I voted for health care here.... we're past campaign mode and it's important for everyone to get some form of healthcare. So to offer a basic plan for everyone I think is important.. there are some very good things in the national health care plan that is being proposed"

[Brian4Liberty]

And did anyone notice how he said the election was more about terrorism than the health care issue? It's around 4:25...

This has been a neo-conservative talking point since the election was over. Sarah Palin said it too.

[Matt Collins]

I am spreading this far and wide.

[Stary Hickory]

Ok we need to keep this thread around so all the people predicting that Brown will pass heath care can be ridiculed. He ran aganst Obamacare to get elected. This they are all the same nonsense cannot be carried out but so far before we start getting absurd.

[ItsTime]

Ok we need to keep this thread around so all the people predicting that Brown will pass heath care can be ridiculed. He ran aganst Obamacare to get elected. This they are all the same nonsense cannot be carried out but so far before we start getting absurd.

I are not saying he wants Obamas plan.

[Matt Collins]

Ok we need to keep this thread around so all the people predicting that Brown will pass heath care can be ridiculed. He ran aganst Obamacare to get elected. So? Did you read the quote he just said hours ago in my above post?

The election is over, now we can be honest, he voted for healthcare in MASS and he thinks much of the current federal plan is a good idea. :mad:

[jmdrake]

Ok we need to keep this thread around so all the people predicting that Brown will pass heath care can be ridiculed. He ran aganst Obamacare to get elected. This they are all the same nonsense cannot be carried out but so far before we start getting absurd.

:rolleyes: What's absurd is not admitting the truth even after Scott Brown says it directly. He's against "Obamacare" only because it's called "Obamacare" and not "Romneycare". It's not at all "absurd" to point that out. Besides, the election is over. Are you worried that somehow Coakley will end up winning anyway? Enough tactical sucking up to the neocons. Time to get back to business. I think Obamacare is still sunk, but only because of the egos involved. If Obama invited Scott Brown to the Whitehouse to "write your own version" of Romneycare we'd be sunk. Thankfully that's not going to happen. (I hope).

[Stary Hickory]

:rolleyes: What's absurd is that you can't admit the truth even after Scott Brown says it directly. He's against "Obamacare" only because it's called "Obamacare" and not "Romneycare". It's not at all "absurd" to point that out. Besides, the election is over. Are you worried that somehow Coakley will end up winning anyway? Enough tactical sucking up to the neocons. Time to get back to business.

LOL ok watch and see......Health Care is officially derailed....you must prove why he is for it. What he said was it's not the governments job to force health care on states. And seeing as he is a Mass Senator he played lipservice to their Health Care pan.

It's funny how this means he supports it......conspiracy!! Intrigue!! OOOoooH

[jmdrake]

LOL ok watch and see......Health Care is officially derailed....you must prove why he is for it. What he said was it's not the governments job to force health care on states. And seeing as he is a Mass Senator he played lipservice to their Health Care pan.

It's funny how this means he supports it......conspiracy!! Intrigue!! OOOoooH

Conspiracy? Matt posted a freaking direct quote! Pull your head out your rear and think! Government run healthcare isn't "derailed" at all. It still probably won't pass, but not because Scott Brown is some savior riding in on a white horse. It probably won't pass because the message that was sent by the voters. Tactically it's good, but not for the reasons you've been deluded into believing.

[Goldhunter27]

Where's Sarahgop:p

[jmdrake]

Where's Sarahgop:p

Out buying collector's editions of Cosmo for Scotty to autograph? ;)

[ItsTime]

Where's Sarahgop:p

She should be posting her donation in the Brown supporter thread ;)

[Oyate]

Gee isn't MA just as important as ever in national politics? Just what we needed, another bloated neocon. Hey Arnold isn't the Terminator anymore, he's fat and soft now.

I can't get over MA electing a nude model. That's just great. I can't wait for Palin's spread in Playboy. What I'd really like to see is Palin, Brown, Beck and maybe Rachel Maddow thrown in for fun into a mass naked jello wrestling competition. I think it could only dignify this pageant of miscreants. The rest of the world would read is as appropriate humility from a nation of harlots and charlatans.

The media is struggling to categorize this as a referendum on this or that but MA just elected a nude boy-model.

The actors, models and perverts are able to get elected in spades and we can't field more than one or two serious contenders? We really have to consider changing tactics. And if anybody can give the people what they truly want, whom better than us libertarians?

Let's reform as the "tits, ass, dicks and actors party". It really seems to be what the people want. Whomever has the hardest abs and the firmest butt gets our nomination.

[Matt Collins]

What I'd really like to see is Palin, Brown, Beck and maybe Rachel Maddow thrown in for fun into a mass naked jello wrestling competition. I think it could only dignify this pageant of miscreants.Ugh.... bad mental image :mad:
But at least Hillary and Fred Thompson weren't involved.

[Badger Paul]

"In other words, "Freedom, brace yourself for the impact of compromise."

Not to say you weren't warned, because Carla Howell clearly warned you.

One thing about the establishment, they like using suckers to advance themselves to make it look legit.

[NYgs23]

If he did turn around and vote for Obamacare, it would probably be a good thing in the long run. The more times the populace is blatantly and obviously slapped by these people, the more of them who will wake up.

[ItsTime]

Make a donation to liberty candidates and post it here!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=227417

[erowe1]

Youtube or it didn't happen.

[ItsTime]

Youtube or it didn't happen.

They have already posted the video from cspan.

[erowe1]

Scott Brown says 5:00 into the video:
http://c-span.org/Watch/Media/2010/01/20/HP/R/28644/Republican+Scott+Brown+wins+MA+Senate+Seat.aspx

"I voted for health care here.... we're past campaign mode and it's important for everyone to get some form of healthcare. So to offer a basic plan for everyone I think is important.. there are some very good things in the national health care plan that is being proposed"

Jackpot!

[RyanRSheets]

To those who are claiming he didn't say such a thing, what do you make of the words, "to offer a basic plan for everybody, I think is important"?

[Matt Collins]

Jackpot!Yep, that's the money shot!


Hopefully the GOP / conservative / tea partiers will have buyers remorse and be more careful about who they support in the future. But I'm not holding my breath :rolleyes:

[georgiaboy]

incredible. wonder if you'll hear that soundbyte on Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, FoxNews...

[LittleLightShining]

Yep, that's the money shot!


Hopefully the GOP / conservative / tea partiers will have buyers remorse and be more careful in the future. But I'm not holding my breath :rolleyes:

This was a huge blow to the Tea Party movement, and by degrees the liberty movement. The GOP has no reason to give us what we want because they know we'll buy into the duopoly anyway.

Where's the free market in politics???

[Immortal Technique]

There is a possible deal made with Brown,
I mean common, how else could he win mass.
His campaign was ran pretty neat, tidy and heavily funded.
Right after he won Webb calls for a freeze on the senate vote & now Obama is saying wait till he gets there?
I think something else is going on here and it is made to appear a different way.

We already know Brown is for socialized medicine after he voted for it in Mass.
Most progressives don't like the senate bill and there had been a loud rumbling as such all over msm about it up to the Mass election.

Howard Dean said last night the Senate health care bill is written by the insurance companies.
No i think they are going to crash the Senate bill and come up with a much more "progressive" bill and you will see Brown vote for it.First gathering the accolades of helping to defeat the senate bill,then shortly there after signing on to the more progressive legislation for good measure to keep and build support in Mass.

That or Brown will just put the knife in the back and vote for the senate bill who knows.

And the money shot

"I voted for health care here.... we're past campaign mode and it's important for everyone to get some form of healthcare. So to offer a basic plan for everyone I think is important.. there are some very good things in the national health care plan that is being proposed"

Something just dont feel right about the whole situation

[jmdrake]

This was a huge blow to the Tea Party movement, and by degrees the liberty movement. The GOP has no reason to give us what we want because they know we'll buy into the duopoly anyway.

Where's the free market in politics???

Whatever Brown does we can turn this to our advantage if we quit infighting and play our cards right. Say if Brown does stab us in the back? What better weapon to use in 2012 against "voting for the lesser of two evils"?

[Chester Copperpot]

It's Massachusetts. A Constitutionalist will be killed.

Can somebody hang a lantern in the Old North Church please?

damn

[georgiaboy]

Whatever Brown does we can turn this to our advantage if we quit infighting and play our cards right. Say if Brown does stab us in the back? What better weapon to use in 2012 against "voting for the lesser of two evils"?

Yeah - hopefully being labeled a Scott Brown Republican will become anathema real soon.

Worse even than being called a Ron Paul Republican. ;)

The real test will be if the voters in Mass and elsewhere, who were honestly looking to reign in gov't, will get the message and really start looking for and voting for the proper candidates, regardless of what the squawk boxes are telling them.

[Matt Collins]

nevermind

[MelissaWV]

I wonder what sarahgop thinks of this ;)

[LittleLightShining]

First, I think Immortal Technique figured it all out.


Whatever Brown does we can turn this to our advantage if we quit infighting and play our cards right. Say if Brown does stab us in the back? What better weapon to use in 2012 against "voting for the lesser of two evils"?Yes, but look at the division Brown caused here!


Can somebody hang a lantern in the Old North Church please?

damnAmen.


Yeah - hopefully being labeled a Scott Brown Republican will become anathema real soon.

Worse even than being called a Ron Paul Republican. ;)

The real test will be if the voters in Mass and elsewhere, who were honestly looking to reign in gov't, will get the message and really start looking for and voting for the proper candidates, regardless of what the squawk boxes are telling them.I'm afraid it won't matter because it didn't happen this time and it should have. Kennedy had 22k votes. Twenty two thousand people in all of Massachusetts saw through the bs and voted on principal-- give or take a few grandmas who liked his name.

And the November elections will feature many more Scott Browns (REGARDLESS of what happens with the health care vote) and the people will eat them up because that's all the GOP has to serve to bring in the $ and the votes.

Damn, I'm depressed :(

[CaseyJones]

bump

[angelatc]

Allegedly Scott Brown was on Fox News this morning and said that the national healthcare program needs to be modeled after the Massachusetts healthcare program.

CAN ANYONE GET A YOUTUBE OF THIS?!!?!?

You should maybe email the guy that does Mox News on YouTube. Maybe he captured it?

[BlackTerrel]

I must have missed it too because state plan is what he was emphasizing and I've heard him talk about it on other occasions.

he also made it very clear that he's not for sale!

-t

Has any politician ever admitted that they were for sale?

[Matt Collins]

You should maybe email the guy that does Mox News on YouTube. Maybe he captured it?
Nevermind. I found out that this was inaccurate.

[LittleLightShining]

Nevermind. I found out that this was inaccurate.

What was inaccurate?

[Matt Collins]

What was inaccurate?
my previous post.

[ARealConservative]

We already know Brown is for socialized medicine after he voted for it in Mass.

Brown voted for something in Massachusetts? Does the U.S. Constitution not authorize socialized medicine in the states?

I say it does. I say if you are critical of the govenrment he pursues at the state level, but don't live in that state, it makes you an interventionist. And I consider that to be a pretty negative thing.

I'm a married man. My wife and I essentially practice communism. Each according to need and all that nonsense - at least as it pertains to our relationship with each other.

You want to call me a communist for allowing my wife to share equally in the fruits of my labor? You want to intervene and put an end to that too? Unless you live in Massachusetts, you have as much say in how they run things as you do in how my wife and I run things.

Now from everything I have read, Brown is a states rights kind of guy. My problem with him is something that effects all states - namely his views on foreign policy.

It would be great if you interventionists focuses on those things instead.


:mad:

[tangent4ronpaul]

Did everyone here flunk critical thinking 101 or just not take it?
ARealConsservative seems to be the only one that got this point.


"I voted for health care here.... we're past campaign mode and it's important for everyone to get some form of healthcare. So to offer a basic plan for everyone I think is important.. there are some very good things in the national health care plan that is being proposed"

could someone please point out where he said those good things were to be applied to a national plan as opposed to being used in a bunch of state plans? Unlike firearms, originating in a national plan does not mean they can only be used in a national plan.

Secondly, could someone please point out where in the Constitution it says or implies that a STATE can't impose an individual mandate on it's citizens? The constitution does not limit states, other than listing the enumerated acts that are the turf of the federal government State constitutions might say they can't, but the federal constitution does not tell the states what they can't do.

-t

[MelissaWV]

What was inaccurate?

We got RickRolled?


* * *


On ABC World News (yes, I watch it sometimes; sue me) they had Obama on and he's pulling the "woe is me" act, saying that their administration has been oh so busy that they've lost touch with the people. There was something in there about how he doesn't really think healthcare will get settled this year. Sure, it could all be for show, but I don't think he'd bother if he thought Brown was in his pocket right yet.

Having said all that, it shouldn't be that difficult to get a Republican to jump ship eventually. They just have to tweak the bill around so someone can say "I got them to put forth a 'conservative' bill and we've won!" and then they vote for it. Reach across the aisle, and all that.

[Mini-Me]

Brown voted for something in Massachusetts? Does the U.S. Constitution not authorize socialized medicine in the states?

I say it does. I say if you are critical of the govenrment he pursues at the state level, but don't live in that state, it makes you an interventionist. And I consider that to be a pretty negative thing.

I'm a married man. My wife and I essentially practice communism. Each according to need and all that nonsense - at least as it pertains to our relationship with each other.

You want to call me a communist for allowing my wife to share equally in the fruits of my labor? You want to intervene and put an end to that too? Unless you live in Massachusetts, you have as much say in how they run things as you do in how my wife and I run things.

Now from everything I have read, Brown is a states rights kind of guy. My problem with him is something that effects all states - namely his views on foreign policy.

It would be great if you interventionists focuses on those things instead.


:mad:

Having a negative opinion of Brown's policies in Massachusetts does not make anyone an interventionist. Being an interventionist necessitates physically intervening, not just making a judgment.

[ItsTime]

Did everyone here flunk critical thinking 101 or just not take it?
ARealConsservative seems to be the only one that got this point.


-t

Apparently you didnt. "to offer" what basic (health care) plan does the government have to offer?

[angelatc]

From BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8470187.stm


Earlier Mr Brown told NBC's Today show he did not think the vote was a referendum on President Obama's first year in power. And he denied he was intent on derailing the reforms.

"I never said I was going to do everything I can to stop healthcare," he said. "I believe everybody should have healthcare, it's just a question of how we do it."

[ARealConservative]

Having a negative opinion of Brown's policies in Massachusetts does not make anyone an interventionist. Being an interventionist necessitates physically intervening, not just making a judgment.

When congress wants to make a statement about a foreign govenrment Dr. Paul always votes against it.

You know why? Because my taking a position on these issues of sovereign governments, it amounts to an act of intervention.

These votes are non-binding - yet he still votes against them because he doesn't want to intervene.

This isn't really different. People aren't just stating an opinion, they are trying to make an impact. They are intervening by definition.

[Mini-Me]

When congress wants to make a statement about a foreign govenrment Dr. Paul always votes against it.

You know why? Because my taking a position on these issues of sovereign governments, it amounts to an act of intervention.

These votes are non-binding - yet he still votes against them because he doesn't want to intervene.

This isn't really different. People aren't just stating an opinion, they are trying to make an impact. They are intervening by definition.

Don't you think an individual offering their personal opinion on a message board is a bit different from the state issuing a formal declaration of condemnation or praise? (Note that official statements by Congress can result in blowback from other countries, not to mention they're unconstitutional; the situations are quite different.) Do you have literally no opinion on any abuses of power that go on anywhere in the world outside of your locality? If someone asks you about gun rights in England or free speech in China, you'll avoid making any judgment? Come on, get real. In this context, people are not citing Brown's Massachusetts record to intervene in Massachusetts, but to demonstrate a track record of big-government politics which may [read: probably will] extend to the federal level. You may believe he's a strong states' rights guy and his state-level record is therefore irrelevant, but not everyone is so convinced.

[erowe1]

I must have missed it too because state plan is what he was emphasizing and I've heard him talk about it on other occasions.

he also made it very clear that he's not for sale!

-t

HAHAHAHHAHAHA

"he made it clear that he's not for sale"

AHAHAHHAHA

I missed that line the first time reading through these. That's rich.

OHHH, well, if he himself told us we can trust him, then I guess that settles it.

Thanks for the laugh.

OH. My side!

[ARealConservative]

Don't you think an individual offering their personal opinion on a message board is a bit different from the state issuing a formal declaration of condemnation or praise? (Note that official statements by Congress can result in blowback from other countries, not to mention they're unconstitutional; the situations are quite different.) Do you have literally no opinion on any abuses of power that go on anywhere in the world outside of your locality? If someone asks you about gun rights in England or free speech in China, you'll avoid making any judgment? Come on, get real. In this context, people are not citing Brown's Massachusetts record to intervene in Massachusetts, but to demonstrate a track record of big-government politics which may [read: probably will] extend to the federal level. You may believe he's a strong states' rights guy and his state-level record is therefore irrelevant, but not everyone is so convinced.

The weight of their words certainly have more of an impact, but the agenda behind their actions isn't really any different.

I'm more playing devils advocacy then anything. I simply tire of all the time people spend on these forums advocating their personal positions to one another. We should be on the same side mostly. And unlike the general populace, are views aren't built on a foundation of ignorance....atleast to the extent I find in Americana.

[paulitics]

Which means it shouldn't be too hard for someone to come up with a plan that is, on paper at least, better than Romneycare.

Which means if Scott Brown was being honest, he would be "open" to such a plan and be willing to impose it on all of the states, not just Massachusetts.

Note that this speech was made after the election. Scott Brown doesn't have to play to "moderate" voters at this time. So why would he say he's open to federal universal healthcare after getting elected on a mandate to oppose federal universal healthcare? Note also that at this point there's nothing to be gained by covering for this guy. (Except some don't want to hear an "I told you so".) I still think a Brown victory was better than nothing. I've been enjoying rubbing it in the face of the fascists at the Whole Foods forums who are still crowing over John Mackey stepping down from being CEO. (He's still chairman). It's great for proving the point that Obama did not get a mandate for all of the crap he's trying to do. But we still gotta watch this guy like a hawk.

Haha. I used to post over there for the fun of it, esp right after the senseless boycott. I noticed some libertarian love on that forum.

Went to wholefoods today, and they were jam packed. Boycott Fail!

[Matt Collins]

From BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8470187.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8470187.stm)
Geeze.. that's pathetic

[sofia]

You want to call me a communist for allowing my wife to share equally in the fruits of my labor? You want to intervene and put an end to that too? Unless you live in Massachusetts, you have as much say in how they run things as you do in how my wife and I run things.


:mad:

flawed analogy...

you and the wife unanomously agree to a communal arrangement.

wheras in the state of Mass......maybe 55-60% agreee and are forcing the other 40% to accept socialized medicine against their will. The rights of the minority are being violated BY FORCE.

Should the people of Mass resist paying for "their fair share" of the socilized scheme...the State can arrest them AT GUNPOINT.....and THAT....is very much the Federal government's business if a US citizen is being violently oppressed by a state government that was GUARANTEED BY THE U S CONSTITUTION to have a republican form of government.

[ARealConservative]

flawed analogy...

you and the wife unanomously agree to a communal arrangement.

wheras in the state of Mass......maybe 55-60% agreee and are forcing the other 40% to accept socialized medicine against their will. The rights of the minority are being violated BY FORCE.

Should the people of Mass resist paying for "their fair share" of the socilized scheme...the State can arrest them AT GUNPOINT.....and THAT....is very much the Federal government's business if a US citizen is being violently oppressed by a state government that was GUARANTEED BY THE U S CONSTITUTION to have a republican form of government.

This forum centers around restoring the constitutional order, which is a social contract none of us directly agreed to.

I understand the anarchist position, but it is a waste of time to argue the merits. You can find someone else to chase unicorns with.

[revolutionary8]

Geeze.. that's pathetic

Oh gawd..

Dubbed Senator Beefcake in the US media, Mr Brown is a lawyer and former model who posed almost naked for Cosmopolitan magazine in the 1980s while in law school.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8470187.stm
Senator Beefcake was "almost naked" my ass!

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/39/2009/09/500x_Scott-Brown-new3.jpg

Its in the fold. :rolleyes:

[Liberty Star]

So Obama doesn't like his truck still?

[Toureg89]

it still sounded to me like he said he would be in favor of a federally based incentive for states to create MA-like health care reforms in respective states.

how does the federal government offer incentives, without borrowing money, printing it, or raising it through taxes (and predominately income taxes, atm)?

and isn't it federally based incentives that encourage States/Counties/Cities to use their SWAT teams/LEO officers to participate in the drug wars?

just because its not directly coming from the federal government, doesnt mean we shouldnt fear it.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Ponder:



On ABC World News (yes, I watch it sometimes; sue me) they had Obama on and he's pulling the "woe is me" act, saying that their administration has been oh so busy that they've lost touch with the people. There was something in there about how he doesn't really think healthcare will get settled this year. Sure, it could all be for show, but I don't think he'd bother if he thought Brown was in his pocket right yet.

I think we all know what's going to happen in November, and Brown winning this seat means RESET! - so the Republicans get their proposals on the floor and considered.


Having said all that, it shouldn't be that difficult to get a Republican to jump ship eventually. They just have to tweak the bill around so someone can say "I got them to put forth a 'conservative' bill and we've won!" and then they vote for it. Reach across the aisle, and all that.

What I've heard is that the Repubs will be less likely to make compromises, because they know it will be easier to get what they want after November. Right now we have gidlock in Congress and it's probably going to stay that way for the next 10-11 months.

Quite from the BBC:

"I never said I was going to do everything I can to stop healthcare," he said. "I believe everybody should have healthcare, it's just a question of how we do it."

He's one person, one vote This doesn't mean we get Romneycare. But consider what this opens up...

The Republicans came up with 70 bills and amendments, of which all but a handful were blocked from even being considered on the floor by Pelosi. Incidentally, Ron Paul wrote 6 of them... They used to all be online at healthcare.gop.gov aka: http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare but most seem to have been taken offline. There is some stuff on that site. Here are the key points:

* Number one: let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines.
* Number two: allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do.
* Number three: give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs.
* Number four: end junk lawsuits that contribute to higher health care costs by increasing the number of tests and procedures that physicians sometimes order not because they think it's good medicine, but because they are afraid of being sued.

Isn't this unfolding in a way that's a lot better than having 3,000 pages of Obamacare shoved down our throats?

-t

[tonesforjonesbones]

This is the point. Nobody disagrees with healthcare reform...Brown will bring the minority party to the table ...they have been left out. The republicans have a plan also, but the deamoncraps blocked them out. Tort reform, tax cuts all sorts of things have been ignored by the demoncraps. Is anyone opposed to making health care more affordable for people? I can't imagine that anyone would oppose that. It just depends on how it's done. TONES (If Brown turns out to be a pissant I will be the first to admit I was wrong)

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

No amount of "reform" will fix the HC industry until we actually repeal what is causing prices to skyrocket --

AMA collusion in licensing
FDA
Entitlements
Employer Healthcare Insurance

Ending those four will see HC prices return to pre 60 levels at the very least. Guess what? I don't see any of those mentioned in the GOP plans.

Across state lines is good, and is Constitutional, but much of what the GOP put forth isn't going to fix anything.

[Cap]

Watching the back-peddling and cleaning egg off their faces...well it's priceless. Meanwhile, some of us need to wise up. As someone stated in an earlier post. SOME of you were Rick rolled.

[ARealConservative]

Watching the back-peddling and cleaning egg off their faces...well it's priceless. Meanwhile, some of us need to wise up. As someone stated in an earlier post. SOME of you were Rick rolled.

The funny thing is the actual people with egg on their faces are either too ignorant, or too stubborn to back pedal.

The real world knows these developments are bad for Obama

[nobody's_hero]

This is the point. Nobody disagrees with healthcare reform...Brown will bring the minority party to the table ...they have been left out. The republicans have a plan also, but the deamoncraps blocked them out. Tort reform, tax cuts all sorts of things have been ignored by the demoncraps. Is anyone opposed to making health care more affordable for people? I can't imagine that anyone would oppose that. It just depends on how it's done. TONES (If Brown turns out to be a pissant I will be the first to admit I was wrong)

You won't be the first. :p

[angelatc]

This is the point. Nobody disagrees with healthcare reform...Brown will bring the minority party to the table ...they have been left out. The republicans have a plan also, but the deamoncraps blocked them out. Tort reform, tax cuts all sorts of things have been ignored by the demoncraps. Is anyone opposed to making health care more affordable for people? I can't imagine that anyone would oppose that. It just depends on how it's done. TONES (If Brown turns out to be a pissant I will be the first to admit I was wrong)

I don't want the government to fix anything! There is no reason to think that the GOP plan will be better, or that it will bring health care costs down.

Tort reform is dangerous - it undermines a basic constitutional right (the jury) and does nothing to reduce costs to the consumer.

The government is going to make something affordable? Are you on crack?

[Cap]

The real world knows these developments are bad for Obama

Funny, I don't see it that way. It looks more and more, that this was no more than a huge sting operation. Kind of a good cop/ bad cop routine...and some of you fell for it. The two parties are the same. Brown was your false prophet. Please people, wake the hell up.

[ARealConservative]

Funny, I don't see it that way. It looks more and more, that this was no more than a huge sting operation. Kind of a good cop/ bad cop routine...and some of you fell for it. The two parties are the same. Brown was your false prophet. Please people, wake the hell up.

:rolleyes:

Some of you are utterly hopeless.

Here's the truth. A Coakley win would of signaled business as usual. A Brown win continues momentum on the side of the tea party movement - ie those waking up from apathy.

Sure, the neocons are trying to co-opt this movement, and they might win. But so long as the movement continues momentum by electing people that distance themselves from the two party apparatus, it is good for us.

[Cinderella]

:rolleyes:

Some of you are utterly hopeless.

Here's the truth. A Coakley win would of signaled business as usual. A Brown win continues momentum on the side of the tea party movement - ie those waking up from apathy. But so long as the movement continues momentum by electing people that distance themselves from the two party apparatus, it is good for us.

;)

[jmdrake]

This is the point. Nobody disagrees with healthcare reform...Brown will bring the minority party to the table ...they have been left out. The republicans have a plan also, but the deamoncraps blocked them out. Tort reform, tax cuts all sorts of things have been ignored by the demoncraps. Is anyone opposed to making health care more affordable for people? I can't imagine that anyone would oppose that. It just depends on how it's done. TONES (If Brown turns out to be a pissant I will be the first to admit I was wrong)

Brown might bring the minority to the table, but he'll be in the driver's seat just like Olympia Snowe was. Brown supports Romneycare which incorporates the worst of Obamacare.

[Baptist]

YouTube - Scott Brown After The Election - Health Care for Everyone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7kFadfB_xY)

[Matt Collins]

*video goes here *
Thank you for posting the video.