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economics102
01-20-2010, 12:07 AM
========EDIT==========

I realize my original post is incredibly long, so here's the cliff notes on what I think is most important in here:

This is a general idea about a new kind of fundraising website that I think could improve our fundraising abilities to the point where the original money bombs will seem like child's play. Here is one (simple) example of the concept:

1. Rand Paul (or Trevor Lyman, etc) sets a fundraising goal of $1 million thru this new website we'd be creating

2. Each supporter enters their credit card info and signs the pledge "If the total pledges add up to the $1 million goal, I will donate $250.00." (the supporter can write in whatever donation amount they want).

3. Pledge totals (both the monetary total and number of donors) are kept private throughout the fundraising effort. On the day of the moneybomb, if the $1 million goal is reached, all donations will be processed via credit card. If not, nobody is charged.

Now here's another variation, one I think is even cooler:

1. Rand Paul (or Trevor Lyman, etc) sets a fundraising goal of $1 million thru this new website we'd be creating

2. Each supporter enters their credit card info and signs the pledge "I pledge to donate up to $500 to help Rand Paul reach his $1 million goal." (the supporter can write in whatever maximum donation amount they want).

3. On the day of the moneybomb, if the total of all the pledge maximums is, say, $2 million, rather than Rand Paul receiving the full $2 million, the visitor in this example would end up being charged $250, as the extra $1 million in pledges is spread out over all the pledgers, driving down the cost to each donor. This way everyone has an incentive to truly pledge the maximum they're willing to spend to make the moneybomb successful. The spreadback of excess funds might be done in an even fashion, or it might be proportional to donation amounts, or by some other method. As before, if the fundraising effort fails, nobody is charged anything.

There are many significant advantages to this system, these are laid out in the original post and in subsequent posts in this thread. Please read and discuss!

===========ORIGINAL POST==============

Hi all, I’m a long-time (2+ years) lurker, never posted here before. I say this with as much humility as possible, but I have what I think could be a game-changer of an idea for our movement. I don't have the time to execute this idea myself, so I'm putting it out here, where I hope it will be rigorously debated and then executed with the care and caution it would require.

The time for this idea is right now. We have serious candidates that could win with serious financial backing, and our ability to keep the movement strong and growing, and start actually winning elections, depends in large part on our fundraising abilities.

Very simply, consider the following scenario: A candidate is running for a senate or house seat. The candidate presents a clear and realistic picture of what it will take to have a decent, 50/50 or better shot at winning. Perhaps even a second, higher estimate, to really seal the deal, and ensure we can overwhelm any media effort to snuff our candidate. Now consider carefully the following questions:


How much would you be willing to donate, if you think your donation will be “wasted” because it’s unlikely enough of your peers will donate to REALLY seriously fund the candidate?
How much would you be willing to donate if you think there’s a decent chance enough of your peers will join you to raise the amount needed to seriously fund the candidate?
How much would you be willing to donate if you were GUARANTEED, with 100% certainty, that, with the help of your donation, the candidate will have the full funding they need to truly compete?
How much would you be willing to donate if you KNEW, with 100% certainty, that, with the help of your donation, the candidate will be over-funded, with an intimidating political warchest that pretty much guarantees they’re going to be a force to be reckoned with, like Linda McMahon has done in Connecticut?


Right now, #3 and #4 are not available options to us, or any political movement. The minority of us that donate ANYTHING fall into category #2. The majority, I presume, are in category #1. For most political movements, the percentage in category #2 is even smaller than ours, because we’re much more serious and committed than most political movements.

But I submit to you, if options 3 and 4 were suddenly available, it would actually be perfectly realistic to see through the kind of scenario Peter Schiff frequently espouses in his video blogs, where he reminds us how easy it would be for us to raise large amounts of money if we could just get all (or a majority) of us to donate, instead of the minority.

And it’s not just about what % of the supporters donate. It’s about how much. Part of why I’ve been thinking about this so much, is that I find myself frequently saying “I’m going to donate $100, that’s all I can comfortably donate. But, man, if I knew that with my donation I could guarantee a giant warchest that would make this candidate a major political force, heck, I’d donate $500, I’d even donate $2,300, even though that would hurt my pocketbook a lot.” And I think most of us are in that camp – if we knew the money was going to be used in a winning campaign, then it’s a very different question. I’m sure most of us are so committed that we’d gladly dive $2,300 into debt to buy Rand Paul or Peter Schiff a senate seat.

Now I realize we’ve used non-binding pledges in the past, and that pledges “sort of” serve a similar purpose. But pledges have some huge weaknesses that undermine the concept:



They’re non-binding
They have a big chicken-and-egg problem. The genius of the live donation trackers used on candidates’ websites is in recognizing that many decide how much to donate by looking at how successful the effort ALREADY IS, and so showing big numbers encourages them. But sadly most people are of the mentality that “oh, phew. I was gonna donate but I see it’s already successful, I’ll just make a small donation (or not donate at all).”
Basically, the truly optimal way for a political movement to raise funds is like this:



a. First, determine “we need at least X amount of money to be a serious, viable campaign”

b. Next, find out the MAXIMUM your supporters would be willing to donate if it would GUARANTEE this target is met

c. If the maximums are not enough to meet the target, don’t waste anyone’s money, call off the fundraiser. If the maximums are so generous that they meet or exceed the target, have your supporters donate just the amount necessary to meet the goal, rather than taking the maximums they offered (this is only fair). This ensures that supporters who are really willing to dig deep if it’s not going to go to waste, will do so, and those that are only throwing around pocket change, or not donating at all, because they’re cynical, have an opportunity to be maximally generous and an insurance plan in case their cynicism/pessimism proves well-placed.


So what am I proposing? There’s a lot of potential variations on my idea but here’s the most likely form of it: I’m proposing that someone build a website that operates on the following process:



Let’s say Peter Schiff needs $2 million to run a credible campaign, and needs $5 million to really make sure he’s taken seriously.
Schiff sets up a fundraising account on this website, with the goals stated above.
Schiff sets a date by which the fundraising effort officially ends (this is the date of the money bomb, in effect).
Potential donors sign up on the site to follow the fundraising effort, entering their credit card info. (of course, the site will no doubt have a widget that gets embedded directly on Schiff’s site, dailypaul.com, etc.)
They choose, for example, to donate $100 if the total of all donors would reach the stated primary goal of $2 million. (They can choose whatever donation amount they want, not everyone has to donate the same amount.)
They also pledge to donate an additional, say, $900 if the totals would reach $5 million.
The pledges are effectively contracts, agreements to donate on a certain date given certain conditions. The site may allow pledges to be canceled prior to the donation date, but once that date arrives, debits to all donors’ accounts happen automatically.
Unlike the current moneybomb setups, stats on how many pledges there are, and how much money has been pledged will be kept private by default, viewable only to the Schiff campaign. This is important, otherwise people will donate less, or not at all, as the totals go up. The Schiff campaign can, at their discretion, announce the fundraising status (“we’ve reached our goal, you can stop donating”), or they might intentionally wait until there are, say, $10 million in pledges, and then announce (“we’re going to cut everyone’s donation in half now that we’ve gotten such a high number of donors”). There are limitless options and opportunity for creativity, etc.
On the scheduled date of the moneybomb, if the targets are reached, the pledges become donations, deployed in one big automated money bomb. If there’s concern that a non-trivial portion of donation transactions will be rejected, this could be solved by first placing authorization holds on all cards to determine whether the rejected transaction rate is acceptable. Or some other methods could be used, etc…
If the totals are NOT reached, no charges will be made, and the donors will be free to keep their money or donate voluntarily as desired.


So again I must emphasize, this is not intended to be a minor process improvement on the money bomb concept. This would be a very different beast. I feel that with a system like this, it would truly be “easy” for us to raise millions of dollars at will for our liberty candidates. Raising $400,000 for Kokesh would be a cinch, for example. Nobody has to worry about whether a moneybomb will be successful. Just email everyone, and we’ll all put down what our donation intentions are, and if the support is there, it will happen, and if not, our scarce resources will not be wasted on candidates that don’t have enough funding to win. We will be able to maximize generosity and minimize risk of wasted resources!

Now, I’m sure lots of “yeah, but…” thoughts go off in your heads as you read through my above description, but with further brainstorming you’ll see that there’s ways to address them. And there’s lots of potential variations on this concept. Just to save some time in discussions, here’s some of the more obvious problems and my thoughts on them:

PROBLEM: If I make a pledge for $1,000 to say, Peter Schiff, and I want to support Rand Paul if Schiff doesn’t meet his target numbers, I’m afraid to pledge to Paul because that creates the possibility that I’ll end up donating to BOTH.

SOLUTION: Well, first of all you can cancel pledges at any time prior to the settlement date. So as long as both candidates aren’t on the same day, there’s no problem. But another solution is that, you can simply select an order of priority for your pledges, and set it up on the site so that “donate $1,000 to Schiff if he hits the $5 million threshold, and if not, donate $$1,500 to Rand Paul, assuming he meets $2 million.”

PROBLEM: Situations will arise where a candidate falls just short of their target and winds up losing the whole boatload as a result.

SOLUTION: This is a real problem, but there’s lots of ways to address this. I’ve got a lot of ideas on how to mitigate this problem but I’ll leave that for another post because this post is already really long!

PROBLEM: This sounds great, but this will also be used by other political movements, so aren’t you just escalating things?

SOLUTION: There’s some truth to this. I think the reality is still that most political activists are not as dedicated as us. They don’t have as much to gain, frankly, so they’re generally not willing to spend money. Think about it this way: most political movements are supporting already-viable mainstream candidates, so the concern over wasting their money is not really there. Imagine what our movement gains if we manage to get Rand Paul or Peter Schiff into the senate. We go from having zero honest libertarians in the senate, to having two. And of course if the liberty movement succeeds at that, it will inspire the majority who sit on the sideline, who suddenly will feel like they can do more than just shoot spitballs, and can actually get their candidates elected. But yes, it will be hard to predict the unintended consequences of putting this kind of tool out in the open – it may just create a bigger arms race for all we know. The "money bomb" is largely a marketing tool with some degree of fundraising innovation in place. This is actually an evolved fundraising concept that outright eliminates some of the major barriers to raising money.

PROBLEM: Couldn’t the opposition sabotage the fundraising efforts by making pledges and canceling them at the last minute?

SOLUTION: Not really. The only people that will be “screwed up” by that are the campaign, which may be making plans based on looking at the not-yet-published pledge count, but assuming the stats are kept private, as I advocate, this kind of sabotage activity would have no impact on the ultimate success or failure of the moneybomb. If this really became an issue though, one solution is to simply not allow canceling of pledges, or charge a small fee for canceling, or some other more creative solution.

PROBLEM: Some people don’t know if they’ll financially be able to afford to donate until the day of the moneybomb.

SOLUTION: That’s OK, they can sign up anytime up until the day-of, it really doesn’t matter, as long as they get their pledge in by the deadline.

So, please discuss. I’m a very experienced software developer, I wish I had time to build this site myself but I don’t. Once there’s been a lively exchange and the best ideas rise to the top, my hope is that this project is taken up by real pros. This is the kind of project where solid execution is really important, as is making sure you’ve got all the legal aspects of a site like this straightened out.

Hope something good comes from this. Sorry if I sound overconfident that this is a “big idea” – I think it is but I’m not trying to be self-important. I trust the value of this idea will be assessed by the people in this thread 

dr. hfn
01-20-2010, 12:18 AM
holy shit. you sir, are a genius!

ForLiberty-RonPaul
01-20-2010, 12:23 AM
the most glaring issue I have is that the system itself is not utterly simple. What makes a money bomb so compelling is that someone says "hey on this day we're all donating to this person." There is nothing complicated about it. Over-complication for the masses makes their minds glaze over. It may seem very logical and not complicated to you, but it will to most. The difficult thing about a money bomb is getting the word out. The main reasons Ron Paul's two major money bombs were successful?...

1. It was a Presidential race (nationwide, maximum # of people interested)
2. There was nationwide news coverage (eventually)
3. With only one target, it was a lot easier to drop money on him
4. There were only two money bombs.


With all the various races going on, even the most ardent grassroots activist can't keep up, not to mention who has any money these days.

I've said this before, what we need is a central hub for all grassroots projects. This hub will not control each project, but will only report and link to them. This hub will have no other purpose. Also, the best way to ensure a successful money bomb is to make money bombs rare. The purpose of a money bomb is not to raise enough money to get someone elected. It is to raise awareness to get someone on TV. As soon as you make a money bomb about money it loses all of it's potency. That last point is sooo important....

A MONEY BOMB IS NOT ABOUT MONEY. IT IS ABOUT RAISING AWARENESS FOR YOUR CANDIDATE. As soon as a money bomb is centered around cash it loses all its potency.

Seems a bit weird having something called a money bomb, when in reality it is simply a media stunt. Making up different more complicated ways in order to ensure a candidate gets a ton of money is counter-intuitive.

What you have here is a top down structured approach to something that is spontaneous and bottom up. Big mistake.

Welcome to Liberty Forest!

TCE
01-20-2010, 12:43 AM
I agree that it would be nice if every candidate had a ranking of one of the following:

1. Information Campaign - Candidate can't actually win, but is willing to run a campaign to inform voters of liberty. Honestly, I am losing a ton of faith in these in a hurry.
2. Unlikely Viable Candidate - Candidate has an outside shot at winning the whole thing, but a ton of money would have to be raised and a lot would have to happen in order to win.
3. Viable Candidate - Candidate has a somewhat good shot at winning the seat in question, but it will still be a race to the finish.
4. Extremely Viable Candidate - This candidate, if he/she wins the Primary, will almost certainly win the seat in question. Not only that, but the Primary is extremely winnable as well.

A lot of good ideas in the original post that deserve discussion.

economics102
01-20-2010, 01:23 AM
First of all, sorry about the length of the original post! :)


the most glaring issue I have is that the system itself is not utterly simple.

I understand the sentiment but I would contend it is no more complicated than the existing money bomb systems. Keep in mind the example in my original post was designed to showcase flexibility, not simplicity, and I'm sure it sounded complicated because I explained it with such verbosity. But consider the example below, which is a "typical use case" and this time shows the process just from the donor's point of view:

1. Go to the site (or the embedded widget on whatever site is promoting the moneybomb). The site/widget read something simple like "I pledge to donate $___ if the total pledges reach $1 million dollars"
2. Choose how much money you want to donate.
3. Enter credit card info

That's it! This is actually no more steps than the existing moneybomb system, only difference is that steps #2 and #3 happen at the time of the pledge rather than on the moneybomb date. So actually it's SIMPLER because you don't have to return on the moneybomb date to actually make the pledge.


A MONEY BOMB IS NOT ABOUT MONEY. IT IS ABOUT RAISING AWARENESS FOR YOUR CANDIDATE. As soon as a money bomb is centered around cash it loses all its potency.

This new moneybomb system really won't look or feel any different than the ones we've done in the past, with the one exception that the pledge count will be hidden. And you COULD show the pledge count as well without messing anything up, I just personally think it's more effective without one. In fact if you really wanted to you could show the pledge $$ totals, which is something that's not possible in the current system because right now donors don't decide what they're going to donate until the day of the moneybomb.

Just to be clear, by the way, the reason I say the pledge count should be hidden, is that in the "classic" moneybombs, the pledge count is intended to motivate more people to pledge, since people are reluctant to pledge if they don't think the moneybomb won't be a success. But in this sytem, if the moneybomb is unsuccessful, nobody pays anything, so there's no benefit to showing the count, and there's a big disadvantage to showing the count, as it may de-motivate new donors if they feel the moneybomb is already on-track and doesn't need their support (or as high a $$$ amount of their support).

I'm not seeing how the system I've proposed is any less potent from a media-generating point of view. If anything it's more potent because it has all the same advantages as the current system AND if it results in more money being raised, that will garner more media attention and earn more political cred in establishing candidate viability. The system I've proposed would look much the same as the current ones, with youtube videos promoting it, etc.

In fact the official campaign doesn't have to be the one to set up the account. A Trevor Lyman-type could create the fundraising system, and throw the widget on his thisnovember5th.com site (like he did with feedburner), etc. Only catch is the organization running this pledge-capturing website would need to directly ensure the money goes to the campaign -- Lyman would not be allowed to collect it "on behalf" of the campaign in his own bank account, for instance.

Michigan11
01-20-2010, 02:32 AM
Alright, we need a condensed version of what is going on here.

If you broke all this down, what exactly are we talking about?

dr. hfn
01-20-2010, 02:35 AM
I agree that it would be nice if every candidate had a ranking of one of the following:

1. Information Campaign - Candidate can't actually win, but is willing to run a campaign to inform voters of liberty. Honestly, I am losing a ton of faith in these in a hurry.
2. Unlikely Viable Candidate - Candidate has an outside shot at winning the whole thing, but a ton of money would have to be raised and a lot would have to happen in order to win.
3. Viable Candidate - Candidate has a somewhat good shot at winning the seat in question, but it will still be a race to the finish.
4. Extremely Viable Candidate - This candidate, if he/she wins the Primary, will almost certainly win the seat in question. Not only that, but the Primary is extremely winnable as well.

A lot of good ideas in the original post that deserve discussion.

Liberty Slate comes to mind: http://libertyslate.com/candidates/candidates-by-rank/

economics102
01-20-2010, 02:52 AM
Alright, we need a condensed version of what is going on here.

If you broke all this down, what exactly are we talking about?

OK, here's a simplest-case example of how this works:

1. Rand Paul (or Trevor Lyman, etc) sets a fundraising goal of $1 million thru this new website we'd be creating

2. Each supporter enters their credit card info and signs the pledge "If the total pledges add up to the $1 million goal, I will donate $250.00." (the supporter can write in whatever donation amount they want).

3. On the day of the moneybomb, if the $1 million goal is reached, all donations will be processed via credit card. If not, nobody is charged.

-----

There's tons of variations and fancier things you can do with this, but the common benefits are:

1. Eliminates the donor risk that they will waste money on a candidate who ends up being under-funded. Donors are GUARANTEED that their money will be part of a successful fundraising effort.

2. Encourages donors to make the maximum donation they can afford, because of point #1 and also because they don't know how much has already been pledged so they won't say "it's already successful, I'll just make a small donation."

economics102
01-20-2010, 03:01 AM
Actually, I just thought of a way cooler variation on this idea:

Let's say the fundraising goal is $1 million, and a total of $2 million ends up being pledged. In the old moneybomb days, everyone gets excited and yells "awesome, that's EVEN BETTER!" But what if the excess pledge amount was instead used to "lower the cost" of all donors for the original $1 million goal. In other words, I might pledge "I am willing to donate up to $500 to ensure the fundraising goal is met," and because there are $2 million in total pledges, I only end up being charged $250.

This way people REALLY have a strong incentive to make their maximum donation, because they won't have to feel like there's a risk that they donated more than was really necessary or like they're picking up the slack for other people that are being less generous than they could because they think some more-generous people will balance them out.

I would argue that being able to more consistently and effectively meet big fundraising goals is far more valuable than being unpredictable but occasionally surpassing the fundraising goals. And again, it's not just about consistency -- this kind of a system will ultimately lead to far more money being raised. If the grassroots is consistently, continuously pulling off moneybombs like the one above with relative ease, there will be more of them, and they'll be for much more money.

eOs
01-20-2010, 03:06 AM
Bump for ingenuity

dr. hfn
01-20-2010, 03:14 AM
We should start this project up ASAP. We will need alot of cooperation to pull it off.

tpreitzel
01-20-2010, 03:33 AM
My main concern: Who controls the money, honey? Corruption follows money like a puppy salivating over a piece of steak. Who controls the dispersal of money? Who has access to credit card information?

economics102
01-20-2010, 03:42 AM
My main concern: Who controls the money, honey? Corruption follows money like a puppy salivating over a piece of steak. Who controls the dispersal of money? Who has access to credit card information?

A nonprofit org would run the site. Transactions could be processed directly into a bank account owned by the campaign. It could be done very safely.

As for credit card storage safety, the site would have to follow the same strict standards that some ecommerce sites do. It's true the majority of ecommerce sites don't store CC info because it's more work and more liability to do that, but it is commonly done. Also, many CC merchants provide API-based solutions for storing customer CC info with the merchant, which is a safer route.

Another way of doing it is for this system to be a web application that gets licensed (or made freely available) to campaigns, giving the campaign the ability to put the software right up on their own secured server. I don't like this approach as much for various reasons, but this would be a more-extreme way to eliminate any concern over the trustworthiness of whoever's running this intermediate site.

tpreitzel
01-20-2010, 03:47 AM
A nonprofit org would run the site. Transactions could be processed directly into a bank account owned by the campaign. It could be done very safely.


Hmmm. Call me a skeptic. Funneling HUGE sums of money through ONE website, non-profit or not, simply unnerves me.



As for credit card storage safety, the site would have to follow the same strict standards that some ecommerce sites do. It's true the majority of ecommerce sites don't store CC info because it's more work and more liability to do that, but it is commonly done. Also, many CC merchants provide API-based solutions for storing customer CC info with the merchant, which is a safer route.

Another way of doing it is for this system to be a web application that gets licensed (or made freely available) to campaigns, giving the campaign the ability to put the software right up on their own secured server. I don't like this approach as much for various reasons, but this would be a more-extreme way to eliminate any concern over the trustworthiness of whoever's running this intermediate site.
I'd probably go for the latter condition where the various campaigns have DIRECT control and access of pledged donations and credit card information. Even for the latter condition, the "web application" would have to be open and freely available for review.

economics102
01-20-2010, 03:56 AM
I'd probably go for the latter condition where the various campaigns have DIRECT control and access of pledged donations and credit card information.

My two cents on this is that, while they are definitely important and maybe a bit challenging, I'm confident the trust/legal accountability issues could probably be worked out in a satisfactory way.

Creating an application that must be deployed and supported by each campaign on their own servers will probably take a good deal more work than just running and maintaining one in-house version. And also, it keeps the burden off of the campaigns and avoids campaigns that would try to install/integrate the application from having to deal with whatever technical problems might crop up.

tpreitzel
01-20-2010, 04:05 AM
Creating an application that must be deployed and supported by each campaign on their own servers will probably take a good deal more work than just running and maintaining one in-house version. And also, it keeps the burden off of the campaigns and avoids campaigns that would try to install/integrate the application from having to deal with whatever technical problems might crop up.

Possibly, but the opposite is some singular entity of individuals controlling a "web application" with a backdoor potentially embedded in the software. Sorry, I'm more concerned than ever of this approach. For my support, the submission of credit card information MUST be SOLELY reserved to the individual campaigns.

pacelli
01-20-2010, 07:47 AM
I'm against centralized banking, but I agree with your overall analysis and think that this subject has been neglected for far too long. I'd like to see this thread stickied and moderated heavily to keep it on-topic.

TheState
01-20-2010, 08:07 AM
I like this idea and I think it's important for us to keep being creative and thinking up new ideas. As we saw with the Schiff bomb a couple days ago, money bombs are no longer a sure thing.

What's nice about this idea is that you could also have an option like like this...

1) if the money bomb hits $10,000; I'll give $50
2) if the money bomb hits $50,000; I'll give $75
3) if the money bomb hits $100,000; I'll give $100
4) if the money bomb hits $500,000; I'll give $200

which would allow people to give more if the money bomb got bigger.

Although I do like the second idea you posted which gave a set amount, and you only need to donate your share.

I agree though that figuring out who to run it would be the hardest part. If that got too hard though, you can just make it so you enter your name and email and pledge an amount and on the day of the bomb, you get an email saying how much you should give. (Assuming there is a somewhat good pledge to donor ratio)

Epic
01-21-2010, 11:26 AM
The fundamental principle here is to eliminate the "free-rider effect".

Great idea, let's get on it.

TCE
01-21-2010, 11:55 PM
Liberty Slate comes to mind: http://libertyslate.com/candidates/candidates-by-rank/

Definitely appreciated. That site owns.

dr. hfn
01-23-2010, 01:32 AM
bump. we need to at least try this

dr. hfn
01-30-2010, 03:06 AM
blimp!