Scott Brown Wins!

[Rael]

OP's Brown wins Mass. Senate seat in epic upset
AP


Massachusetts State Senator Scott Brown, R-Wrentham, center, greets a supporter AP – Massachusetts State Senator Scott Brown, R-Wrentham, center, greets a supporter before voting in Wrentham, …
By GLEN JOHNSON and LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writers Glen Johnson And Liz Sidoti, Associated Press Writers – 8 mins ago

BOSTON – In an epic upset in liberal Massachusetts, Republican Scott Brown rode a wave of voter anger to defeat Democrat Martha Coakley in a U.S. Senate election Tuesday that left President Barack Obama's health care overhaul in doubt and marred the end of his first year in office.

The loss by the once-favored Coakley for the seat that the late Sen. Edward M. Kennedy held for nearly half a century signaled big political problems for the president's party this fall when House, Senate and gubernatorial candidates are on the ballot nationwide.

More immediately, Brown will become the 41st Republican in the 100-member Senate, which could allow the GOP to block the president's health care legislation and the rest of Obama's agenda. Democrats needed Coakley to win for a 60th vote to thwart Republican filibusters.

[nobody's_hero]

Dang, I guess we're getting Obamacare-lite.

If it's anything like beer, I'd almost rather have the real thing.

But it's not like beer.



But I need a beer, no—something stronger.

[Old Ducker]

Anyone have a rat's ass I can toss at this thread?

[ARealConservative]

Anyone have a rat's ass I can toss at this thread?

no, but might I suggest a horse's ass :rolleyes:

[JXL78]

I take it Scott Brown is a neocon?

[Oyate]

Happy tactical victory and strategic failure!

[nobody's_hero]

If a republican sees his shadow, does that mean 8 more years of Bush?

[silverhandorder]

Ok now we can resume our march on taking over. :) Relax principled people this is what Rand and Schiff are for and all the conventions CFL is having.

[nobody's_hero]

Ok now we can resume our march on taking over. :) Relax principled people this is what Rand and Schiff are for and all the conventions CFL is having.

Well, I hope you enjoyed Rand, and Schiff, and the CFL, because if they make it into the mainstream news again, it'll be a damned miracle.

The boys are back in town. :rolleyes:

To anyone who might be thinking this was some sort of revolutionary monkey-wrench thrown into the gears of big-government:

This didn't send a message to the Democrats. This sent a message to the Republican party that they can run perhaps the worst possible "conservative" candidate in the state and still get back into power. Following this election, the bar has been significantly lowered as to what should be required of a GOP candidate intending to be voted into office.

[ARealConservative]

I take it Scott Brown is a neocon?

I think that is a safe assumption.

[Koz]

I have to admit I am torn on this one. Coakley would have represented a socialist/marxist vote in the Sentate, basically doing whatever Stinky Reid and Obama told her to do.

At least Brown will vote against socialism in some cases. I think it's the best we can hope for at this time in Mass.

I agree it would have been better to have a pro-liberty candidate in this seat, but that obviously wasn't an option.

That said, I bet he would follow along with pro Liberty candidates if we can get some elected, because let's face it we cannot get pro liberty candidates elected everywhere.

[Oyate]

Meh, at some point we'll see splintering the GOP vote to throw victory to a dem AS VICTORY. It's the next step to the real thing.

Gotta be willing to loose to be able to win.

[sofia]

Anyone have a rat's ass I can toss at this thread?

Dont be pessimistic. This is great news. Dont u know what this means???

This means that the GOP will take back Congress in November and then the White House in 2012.

If you recall, the last time this conservative wave broke in 1994, we rolled back the welfare state, repealed socialism, reinstated constitutional government, made the world safe, and slashed taxes dramatically.

Have you forgotten so soon?

Have you no faith in the GOP? :rolleyes:

[ARealConservative]

I have to admit I am torn on this one. Coakley would have represented a socialist/marxist vote in the Sentate, basically doing whatever Stinky Reid and Obama told her to do.

At least Brown in most cases will vote against socialism in some cases. I think it's the best we can hope for at this time in Mass.

I agree it would have been better to have a pro-liberty candidate in this seat, but that obviously wasn't an option.

That said, I bet he would follow along with pro Liberty candidates if we can get some elected, because let's face it we cannot get pro liberty candidates elected everywhere.

Exactly. We weren't going to get a clear cut victory out of this in any way shape or form.

[ARealConservative]

Dont be pessimistic. This is great news. Dont u know what this means???

This means that the GOP will take back Congress in November and then the White House in 2012.

If you recall, the last time this conservative wave broke in 1994, we rolled back the welfare state, repealed socialism, reinstated constitutional government, made the world safe, and slashed taxes dramatically.

Have you forgotten so soon?

Have you no faith in the GOP? :rolleyes:

What it actually means is politicians up for reelection are becoming increasingly alarmed by the lack of support the Obama administration is able to give them. They might have to consider backing off from all the socialist bullshit if they want to stay employed.

A Democrat has been in Kennedy's seat since 1952. That's going to leave a mark

[Justinjj1]

Fuck Scott Brown and fuck the Republican party.

[Oyate]

A Democrat has been in Kennedy's seat since 1952. That's going to leave a mark

How many seats did he leave a mark on? All of them? That's gonna cost a lot in upholstery right there.

[Original_Intent]

Well, I hope you enjoyed Rand, and Schiff, and the CFL, because if they make it into the mainstream news again, it'll be a damned miracle.

The boys are back in town. :rolleyes:

To anyone who might be thinking this was some sort of revolutionary monkey-wrench thrown into the gears of big-government:

This didn't send a message to the Democrats. This sent a message to the Republican party that they can run perhaps the worst possible "conservative" candidate in the state and still get back into power. Following this election, the bar has been significantly lowered as to what should be required of a GOP candidate intending to be voted into office.

Um, last I checked, DELEGATES decide what candidate runs for their party, not them. Now if we all sit back and don;t attend our precincts, do anything to become delegates then, um, yeah we'll get assholes and we'll deserve them.

[nobody's_hero]

What it actually means is politicians up for reelection are becoming increasingly alarmed by the lack of support the Obama administration is able to give them. They might have to consider backing off from all the socialist bullshit if they want to stay employed.

They might. Or they'll just have to ask the insurance lobbyists for bigger retirement packages for passing this bill that's going to "ruin" them. It's no big deal, they'll be back after the neocons screw it up again. The process will repeat.

For instance, I'm sure George Bush is really crying over his ruined career in politics, what with all the oil profits he's swimming around in to keep him reminded of his misery.

[treyfu]

Dont be pessimistic. This is great news. Dont u know what this means???

This means that the GOP will take back Congress in November and then the White House in 2012.

If you recall, the last time this conservative wave broke in 1994, we rolled back the welfare state, repealed socialism, reinstated constitutional government, made the world safe, and slashed taxes dramatically.

Have you forgotten so soon?

Have you no faith in the GOP? :rolleyes:

hahaha. Yeah, you're right. Government got smaller during the Bush years. /s

[sofia]

What it actually means is politicians up for reelection are becoming increasingly alarmed by the lack of support the Obama administration is able to give them. They might have to consider backing off from all the socialist bullshit if they want to stay employed.

A Democrat has been in Kennedy's seat since 1952. That's going to leave a mark

Socialism always advances more efficiently with A Repugnant in the White House because his own Party wil never stand up to "the Leader"

Strange as it may sound, the reality is that the anti-Clinton backlash of the 90's led to a GOP expansion of socialism that dwarfed LBJ.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Watching MSNBC for a bit... it is Hilarious... NBC's Rachel Maddow is blaming Coakley for taking a vacation during the holidays.

Coakley blaming the DNC/DNSC for the failure....

the last time the Republicans held a Senate seat in MASS... 1952

wow... there's as much HATE & BLAME on MSNBC as there is on UndergroundDemocracy I truly think Kieth Olbermann is going to Cry.

[xd9fan]

and now the test:

is he a neocon.....

[parocks]

That's what you're taking from a Brown win?

We're getting what we have now. Obamacare will likely be stopped.



Dang, I guess we're getting Obamacare-lite.

If it's anything like beer, I'd almost rather have the real thing.

But it's not like beer.



But I need a beer, no—something stronger.

[ARealConservative]

Socialism always advances more efficiently with A Repugnant in the White House because his own Party wil never stand up to "the Leader"

Strange as it may sound, the reality is that the anti-Clinton backlash of the 90's led to a GOP expansion of socialism that dwarfed LBJ.

What socialist programs supported by republicans in the 90's dwarfed the Great Society Programs?

You know what The Contract with America did do? It gave Ron Paul the idea that maybe the time was ripe to reenter political life. So I'm not so quick to discount things as some of my internet friends appear to be.

[nobody's_hero]

That's what you're taking from a Brown win?

We're getting what we have now. Obamacare will likely be stopped.

Um. Yeah. Just like the democrats ended the war. Or like the PATRIOT act wasn't put off until it was politically convenient to implement it.

I'm going for another shot of whiskey.

[parocks]

Wayching MSNBC for a bit... it is Hilarious... NBC's Rachel Maddow is blaming Coakley for taking a vacation during the holidays.

Coakley blaming the DNC/DNSC for the failure....

the last time the Republicans held a Senate seat in MASS... 1952

wow... there's as much HATE & BLAME on MSNBC as there is on UndergroundDemocracy


The last time the Republicans held that particular seat was 1952.

The last time the Republicans were in the Senate in Mass at all was 1978.

[Oyate]

I'm positive somebody is celebrating tonight. Isn't it some kind of holiday in Thailand?

[REDNECK WOMAN]

I bet Ted Kennedy is rolling over in his grave. Brown looks better than O in his swim suit and even better in his birthday suit. LOL Oh no you aint Dem's and yes we did!!!! We won Yeehaw.

[angelatc]

Wayching MSNBC for a bit... it is Hilarious...

Thanks for the heads up. This is good political theatre!

Up next, Keith "the mouth" Olbermann apologizes to Senator-elect Brown. He's such a dick...

[parocks]

Um. Yeah. Just like the democrats ended the war. Or like the PATRIOT act was put off until it was politically convenient to implement it.

I'm going for another shot of whiskey.

Well, if you're watching TV, you'll hear "Obamacare is dead" a lot.

Whether everyone on TV is right or not, I don't know. It certainly will be much more difficult for the Democrats to pass legislation.

Apparently, Pelosi is going to try to pass the Senate Bill in the House.

The question becomes whether or not House Democrats want to lose their jobs.

The House vote on the House Bill was close, and the vote was before this Mass election, which is indicating to House Dems that their jobs aren't secure, unless they're in a District that's more liberal than Massachusetts.

[sofia]

What socialist programs supported by republicans in the 90's dwarfed the Great Society Programs?

You know what The Contract with America did do? It gave Ron Paul the idea that maybe the time was ripe to reenter political life. So I'm not so quick to discount things as some of my internet friends appear to be.

The growth in spending and the annual deficits surpassed LBJ ...

Contract with America was a piece of garbage...as was its author...Newt "I agree with Al Gore on Global Warming" Gingrich.-

Bush and a GOP Congress inherited a budget surplus...and left town with 400 Billion dollar deficits! ( a record until Barry took over)

[Fox McCloud]

I'm not sure on Brown's standing, but even if he is a neo-con, at least this will very likely be a victory for the healthcare side of things...and this is an overall positive signal for those who would like to see liberty candidates (who are typically running as Republicans) elected at the end of 2010 elections.

Either way, this tells me that most likely the Republicans will pick up a number of seats in the Senate and a number in the house; which, if the healthcare bill doesn't pass by then, it'll be DOA come the day after election day.

[tmosley]

The republicans stall the democrats from making further progress destroying the economy and block them from further nationalization of industries. We allow our enemies to wear away at each other, with neither side able to maintain the mantle of innocence. In this way, when we produce candidates with "radical" ideas for real change, and not just political doubletalk, they get ELECTED.

I will admit that I have been waiting for the destruction of this nation so that I could help to rebuild it from the ashes, but if we have a chance of saving it, I think it is worth it. Brown's election is a step in that direction. We can "take whole" (read Sun Tzu) if we work hard enough. Otherwise, we will be left with a barren wasteland that we will have to rebuild from whole cloth. I am prepared for the worst, but I hope for the best. Any delays these fools can muster to stop the resurgence of true freedom will be short lived. They are at the end of their ropes, whether there is a satisfying snap, or merely a whimper and a strangling sound, it will be over all too soon.

[ARealConservative]

The growth in spending and the annual deficits surpassed LBJ ...

Contract with America was a piece of garbage...as was its author...Newt "I agree with Al Gore on Global Warming" Gingrich.-

Bush and a GOP Congress inherited a budget surplus...and left town with 400 Billion dollar deficits! ( a record until Barry took over)

Our growth in spending (printing of wealth) in the 90's was largely military and interest on debt, not social policies as you previously claimed.

[FrankRep]

Someone had to go there. :rolleyes:

YouTube - Coakley's Downfall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-Dkh8xQNwU)

[Slutter McGee]

I have one extremely important thing to say. Scott Browns blonde daughter is a hottie If I have ever seen one.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[Freedom 4 all]

Well, if you're watching TV, you'll hear "Obamacare is dead" a lot.
.

Yeah well the ol' TV machine just loves to promote the illusion that there is actually a damn worth of difference between the two parties.

In the meantime...
http://waiternotes.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/jack_daniels.jpg

[Southron]

Socialism always advances more efficiently with A Repugnant in the White House because his own Party wil never stand up to "the Leader"

Strange as it may sound, the reality is that the anti-Clinton backlash of the 90's led to a GOP expansion of socialism that dwarfed LBJ.

The problem is every single time the people just assume because they are Republican they won't do the same things as the Dems.

And then they don't pay any attention to the expansion of gubmint during the Repub years.

Having Democrats in office might be beneficial just from the outrage it generates and how much closer people watch their politicians.

You know if John McCain had won and created his own McCaincare it would likely have passed easily.

[FrankRep]

I have one extremely important thing to say. Scott Browns blonde daughter is a hottie If I have ever seen one.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee


Scott Brown's daughter on American Idol (http://sports.rightpundits.com/?p=3812)
YouTube - Ayla Brown - I Want You To Need Me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QW3MpzcnhQ)

[GunnyFreedom]

Um, last I checked, DELEGATES decide what candidate runs for their party, not them. Now if we all sit back and don;t attend our precincts, do anything to become delegates then, um, yeah we'll get assholes and we'll deserve them.

This.

If we had all taken Ron Paul's own direct advice and gotten involved at the ground level GOP and pushed upwards agitating for change, then we'd own the whole frelling party by now.

But, as we all know, cats will NOT be herded.

[Oyate]

I guess in the opinion of about half of us, this is change WE can believe in.

Hopey-changey hopey-changey.

[angelatc]

Scott Brown's daughter on American Idol (http://sports.rightpundits.com/?p=3812)
YouTube - Ayla Brown - I Want You To Need Me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QW3MpzcnhQ)

That's the brunette. Slutter is checkin out the blond.

[sarahgop]

i love it oyate!!

[sofia]

Our growth in spending (printing of wealth) in the 90's was largely military and interest on debt, not social policies as you previously claimed.

thats not accurate....

Domestic spending exploded..

The budget for the department of education actually DOUBLED under Bush....

In fact..EVERY single department increased its cost beyond the inflation rate

Bush and GOP also did a stimulus...a massive bailout of Mexico..of wall street..and prescription drug scheme

[Slutter McGee]

That's the brunette. Slutter is checkin out the blond.

According to Scott Brown, the burnette is the available one. She is pretty damn cute too. I am afraid I might have to give up the cause of liberty and accept the neo-con view if it meant I got to have a chance with blond though.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[GunnyFreedom]

Don't like Brown, but c'mon, this is MASSACHUSETTS f'r crimuny's sake. When you go to start climbing mountains, you don't start with frelling EVEREST. :rolleyes:

What this election does, is indicate for us what will happen in November of 2010.

If there is not already a wave of Ron Paulers running for every office in the land, then shame on us. The GOP is likely to stumble into office by ACCIDENT on account of blowback from Dem missteps. We should already be in position to accidentally stumble into office with them.

[FrankRep]

That's the brunette. Slutter is checkin out the blond.
Okay, I found her.

YouTube - Scott Brown with his daughters Ayla and Arianna Brown. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_k5tOcMuRA)

[angelatc]

According to Scott Brown, the burnette is the available one. She is pretty damn cute too. I am afraid I might have to give up the cause of liberty and accept the neo-con view if it meant I got to have a chance with blond though.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

She ain't married yet!!! Maybe she'll get pregnant and then ditch the baby's father!

[Oyate]

In 2012 we'll just run all the gals from the Ladies Of Liberty calendar collectively as "the candidate". We should win with no problem whatsoever.

[ARealConservative]

thats not accurate....

Domestic spending exploded..

The budget for the department of education actually DOUBLED under Bush....

In fact..EVERY single department increased its cost beyond the inflation rate

Bush and GOP also did a stimulus...a massive bailout of Mexico..of wall street..and prescription drug scheme

Bush was not the 90's. We were talking about what the republican held congress did in the 90's,

I'm asking for some of those programs enacted in the 90's that you claim dwarfed LBJ's great society, and you have done nothing but change the subject since.

[GunnyFreedom]

I guess in the opinion of about half of us, this is change WE can believe in.

Hopey-changey hopey-changey.

Um. no.

more like 2% maybe. Certainly not me.

All this means is that the GOP will have their easiest victories in a century in 2010 on account of blowback against the Dems. Mass will never elect a real conservative in our lifetimes, IMHO.

This event has nothing to do with who won, and everything to do with how sentiment will favor the GOP come November.

And even more, how if we had done what Ron Paul asked us to do, it would be US sweeping into office in November.

But since most of us just sat back and complained, since most of us ignored Ron Paul's advice, then it will be establishment Republicans sweeping into office.

By all rights, had we only had the presence of mind to do what RP asked of us, then 2010 would have been the year it all started turning around.

Now it will take a guerilla warfare mindset from the one-half-of-one-percent of us Paulers to try and affect change while hopelessly outnumbered.

[parocks]

Run a Liberty candidate for every House seat. Republican Primaries.
If not every one, then some. Hopefully Rand wins the Primary, so that people can focus their energy on that race. Hopefully more than just Rand, but at least Rand.

I'm not one for "sending a message" with 1% of the vote, which is what Joe Kennedy got.



Um. no.

more like 2% maybe. Certainly not me.

All this means is that the GOP will have their easiest victories in a century in 2010 on account of blowback against the Dems. Mass will never elect a real conservative in our lifetimes, IMHO.

This event has nothing to do with who won, and everything to do with how sentiment will favor the GOP come November.

And even more, how if we had done what Ron Paul asked us to do, it would be US sweeping into office in November.

But since most of us just sat back and complained, since most of us ignored Ron Paul's advice, then it will be establishment Republicans sweeping into office.

By all rights, had we only had the presence of mind to do what RP asked of us, then 2010 would have been the year it all started turning around.

Now it will take a guerilla warfare mindset from the one-half-of-one-percent of us Paulers to try and affect change while hopelessly outnumbered.

[tmosley]

When you have a small force and wish to conquer a large one, sow dissension in the ranks of the larger force, and turn it on itself. Allow factions to form which will fight each other, and do the destructive work for you. Once their battle is over, and they are left with just a small remnant of their forces, then you sweep in and take them.

Debra Medina is a perfect example of this strategy. Perry and Hutchinson are basically the same in every respect. She allowed each one to soil the other with true comments about their failures and shortcomings. Once they had each destroyed the credibility of the other, she stood up on a pedestal and called for order, used logic and reason to appeal to voters long subjected to nothing but doubletalk. The result was that she stole some voters from each of their campaigns, and got herself a bunch of independents on her side as well. Word of mouth is spreading quickly, and Medina is likely to emerge as a top contender, or even a favorite, should she replicate her performance at the second debate.

We must use this opportunity to rally our candidates, and attack both sides. We must show the people that they are the same, and present truthful and logical arguments for enacting REAL change. After we win, we must stick to it, and never become complacent, as those same fools will put on our clothing and attempt to worm their way back to power, and will enact the same policies we have fought so hard against as soon as we turn our backs.

[aclove]

What Glen said. No question about it.

Oh, and Glen is a Farscape fan. Frelling, indeed! :P

[Mini-Me]

Okay, I found her.

YouTube - Scott Brown with his daughters Ayla and Arianna Brown. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_k5tOcMuRA)

Did someone say Ayla?
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo130/UnrealMiniMe/Ayla_in_chrono_trigger.jpg
It looks like Scott might have switched his daughters' names on accident. (If I'm the only one here who knows what I'm talking about, I'm going to be sorely disappointed.)

[Oyate]

Now it will take a guerilla warfare mindset from the one-half-of-one-percent of us Paulers to try and affect change while hopelessly outnumbered.

You leave out (for obvious reasons) those of us who never did or will no longer stomach working within the confines of the GOP. Not an inconsiderable force.

[JamesButabi]

freestateproject.org ;-)

[Brian4Liberty]

Did anyone see his acceptance speech? He fought the machine! He fought the machine! :rolleyes:

[MurrayMe]

Um. no.

more like 2% maybe. Certainly not me.

All this means is that the GOP will have their easiest victories in a century in 2010 on account of blowback against the Dems. Mass will never elect a real conservative in our lifetimes, IMHO.

This event has nothing to do with who won, and everything to do with how sentiment will favor the GOP come November.

And even more, how if we had done what Ron Paul asked us to do, it would be US sweeping into office in November.

But since most of us just sat back and complained, since most of us ignored Ron Paul's advice, then it will be establishment Republicans sweeping into office.

By all rights, had we only had the presence of mind to do what RP asked of us, then 2010 would have been the year it all started turning around.

Now it will take a guerilla warfare mindset from the one-half-of-one-percent of us Paulers to try and affect change while hopelessly outnumbered.

What are you talking about? Trying to educate people on why government is bad? The majority of people will NEVER see it the way Ron Paul does. You know the quote "if voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal."? I admire your optimism though.

[nobody's_hero]

You leave out (for obvious reasons) those of us who never did or will no longer stomach working within the confines of the GOP. Not an inconsiderable force.

Exactly. Nor even if we did, would we want to subject ourselves to the fate that befell Matt Collins.

Folks like Gunny (and even Ron Paul) will have to pardon us if we aren't tripping over ourselves to get involved in local "grassroots" GOP party organizations whose leaders can simply usurp the people's vote and remove popularly elected committee members by an oligarchy of entrenched panel members in secret hearings. —Only then to come back here to Ron Paul forums and get shit on by certain "liberty-loving" folks who have little interest in learning about what actually happened or accurately directing the blame towards those whom it is warranted.

---------------------

The GOP is a lost-cause, Brown-nosers. Try saving your country instead.

"He fought the machine," indeed. :rolleyes:



EDIT: And for anyone who thinks that Brown's blonde-haired daughter is hot, you need to go back and view some of Shelly's videos. Apparently, you've even forgotten what hot blondes look like:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/695/roche.jpg

[Peace&Freedom]

Run a Liberty candidate for every House seat. Republican Primaries.
If not every one, then some. Hopefully Rand wins the Primary, so that people can focus their energy on that race. Hopefully more than just Rand, but at least Rand.

I'm not one for "sending a message" with 1% of the vote, which is what Joe Kennedy got.

This is the high-percentage approach that echoes how Paul was able to get the visibility he got for his libertarian agenda in the '08 primaries. Run as a principled third-party type candidate in the major party primary. Run a good liberty candidate where there is an open seat (or scandal plagued incumbent), as either a Democrat or a Republican, depending on how the district trends (run RP Democrats in Democratic districts, and RP Republicans in GOP districts).

This way we are bringing together two basic realities---1) from the point of view of delivering on liberty, there's no real difference between Dem and GOP parties, BUT 2) the way the American political system is currently rigged, you have to run in a major party to get elected. This is a viable method for bypassing the structural suppression of principled candidates, that avoids compromising with the majors, without relegating ourselves to the political sidelines.

Third parties (LP and CP) can serve a new role in this respect as farming systems to find and vet real principled liberty candidates, while growing their presence for 'sending a message' and applying increased 'liberty pressure' on both majors from outside the system. This permits the liberty movement to exert its influence across the political spectrum, instead of putting all the eggs in the GOP basket, and failing legislatively for decades more.

In NY, for example, the LP is considering a 'primary-coattails' variation on the liberty-candidate/major party strategy to gain regular ballot status (in NY a party must get 50,000 votes in the Governor's race to gain permanent ballot status). Since the LP usually gets 15-20,000 votes statewide, and Paul got 39,000 votes (6%) in the 2008 GOP primary, we're leaning towards running a Paul movement candidate in the September GOP primary. If he can get 6% or more in the primary, and most of those voters vote for the same person in November on the LP line, that plus our regular base, along with votes from miscellaneous Democrats and Independents can take the LP over 50k line.

[GunnyFreedom]

You leave out (for obvious reasons) those of us who never did or will no longer stomach working within the confines of the GOP. Not an inconsiderable force.

Ohh well. This is how freedom dies. You think I like it? I only registered for ANY party for the 1st time in my life because this was the strategy that RP HIMSELF told us would make things happen. So far he has been dead right. The NCGOP still has a way to go, but the change so far has been quite remarkable.

It's this "I don't like the way things are, but I am not willing to do whatever it takes to fix it" attitude that would consign us to tyranny. You think the unpaid, unfed, unclothed troops at Valley Forge actually liked dying of malnutrition, poverty, and exposure? Of course not. They didn't join Washington's army because they liked dying of cold and hunger and British lead for free, but because they had the stones to stand up and DO something about it.

Compared to what those brave men suffered, the agony of going to your county conventions is a walk in the park. Don't expect me to shed a tear for your inconvenience, mister.

[GunnyFreedom]

What are you talking about? Trying to educate people on why government is bad? The majority of people will NEVER see it the way Ron Paul does. You know the quote "if voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal."? I admire your optimism though.

I think you grossly underestimate the number of people who desperately want to see the restoration of the Constitutional Order. The people are held back through fear and ignorance, and need only be set free from the invisible cages which confine them. This is WAR, quite frankly, and we will take our losses in battle, but the only way way we can lose the war is by being unwilling to show up.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I bet Ted Kennedy is rolling over in his grave. Brown looks better than O in his swim suit and even better in his birthday suit. LOL Oh no you aint Dem's and yes we did!!!! We won Yeehaw.

nah - he's spinning in his grave. We should hook up a generator so we wouldn't have to burn fossil fuels any more - then we could stop talking about climate change. :D

-t

[GunnyFreedom]

This is the high-percentage approach that echoes how Paul was able to get the visibility he got for his libertarian agenda in the '08 primaries. Run as a principled third-party type candidate in the major party primary. Run a good liberty candidate where there is an open seat (or scandal plagued incumbent), as either a Democrat or a Republican, depending on how the district trends (run RP Democrats in Democratic districts, and RP Republicans in GOP districts).

This way we are bringing together two basic realities---1) from the point of view of delivering on liberty, there's no real difference between Dem and GOP parties, BUT 2) the way the American political system is currently rigged, you have to run in a major party to get elected. This is a viable method for bypassing the structural suppression of principled candidates, that avoids compromising with the majors, without relegating ourselves to the political sidelines.

Third parties (LP and CP) can serve a new role in this respect as farming systems to find and vet real principled liberty candidates, while growing their presence for 'sending a message' and applying increased 'liberty pressure' on both majors from outside the system. This permits the liberty movement to exert its influence across the political spectrum, instead of putting all the eggs in the GOP basket, and failing legislatively for decades more.

I absolutely LOVE this approach.


In NY, for example, the LP is considering a 'primary-coattails' variation on the liberty-candidate/major party strategy to gain regular ballot status (in NY a party must get 50,000 votes in the Governor's race to gain permanent ballot status). Since the LP usually gets 15-20,000 votes statewide, and Paul got 39,000 votes (6%) in the 2008 GOP primary, we're leaning towards running a Paul movement candidate in the September GOP primary. If he can get 6% or more in the primary, and most of those voters vote for the same person in November on the LP line, that plus our regular base, along with votes from miscellaneous Democrats and Independents can take the LP over 50k line.

[Liberty Star]

A win for freedom and liberties. No chance of groin sniffig dogs and scanners being deployed in America after this sharp turn.

[GunnyFreedom]

What Glen said. No question about it.

Oh, and Glen is a Farscape fan. Frelling, indeed! :P

LOL yes! I'm not much for TV, but I am a big science fiction fan from my youth, always waiting eagerly for the next Heinlein and Asimov release. IMHO, Farscape is/was the best television created in the entire history of the tube. I own the entire series, actually. 8-) occasionally, I get a burr in my saddle and watch the thing over again from season1 ep1 all the way through the Peacekeeper wars miniseries. :D

Folks just don't realize how many times we fall short on our goals by just 1 or 2 votes. We missed electing our guy for NCGOP Chairman by something like 12 votes, and and there were easily 25 of OUR PEOPLE who just 'couldn't be bothered' to show up! :mad: :mad: :mad:

That's why this whole "I'm not soiling myself by getting involved" attitude stinks to high heaven and makes me so angry I want to spit. With just 15 more people at the last State Convention...FIFTEEN PEOPLE out of fifteen HUNDRED (that's 1% folks) we'd have had OUR guy as State GOP Chairman today.

Then we come home and get to hear a bunch of brayying asses yak about how "see, I told you we shouldn't get involved, that stuff never works." Well no shyt Sherlock. When our ranks are dominated by summer soldiers and sunshine patriots who turn and flee at the first sign of hardship, it doesn't work.

Too many times over the last 2 years I have seen FIRST HAND how we lose a critical vote by ONE vote, ONE vote (for instance, we just lost 2nd District Chair a week ago by one vote -- ONE VOTE) to come and hear about ppl crying about how we shouldn't even try.

These people have no idea how CLOSE we have been at EVERY step of the way these last 24 months. We have literally been right on the heels of the establishment at every single contest. You and I know, because we have seen it for ourselves. If we had just 2% more people who can be bothered to SHOW UP, we would dominate every single contest. That's not speculation, that's cold fact.

And no -- before someone suggests it, these votes are done in a way that is quite impossible to rig, sorry. We lost all these contests in a fair fight, because of people who had to clip their stupid toenails rather than show up to the conventions and raise their stupid hand when it came time to elect our guy.

Yeah, I'm disgusted by the attitude, because I KNOW (I don't think, speculate, postulate, or imagine, I KNOW, firsthand) that had all these people actually done what RP asked us to, then we'd own the whole GOP by now, and this whole discussion would be academic.

But noooooooooooo -- it's too much of a burden to bother doing what actually works, because we might have to talk to those ikky political people that we don't like. :rolleyes:

Yeah, that's exactly why we are in the mess we are in today. Summer soldiers and sunshine patriots, too 'clean' to get dirty and fight in the trenches where it actually makes a difference.

Thank God these weren't the sort of people who served in George Washington's army -- we'd still be on our knees before the British King.

[Dreamofunity]

I kind of like his brunette daughter.

[Mini-Me]

LOL yes! I'm not much for TV, but I am a big science fiction fan from my youth, always waiting eagerly for the next Heinlein and Asimov release. IMHO, Farscape is/was the best television created in the entire history of the tube. I own the entire series, actually. 8-) occasionally, I get a burr in my saddle and watch the thing over again from season1 ep1 all the way through the Peacekeeper wars miniseries. :D

Folks just don't realize how many times we fall short on our goals by just 1 or 2 votes. We missed electing our guy for NCGOP Chairman by something like 12 votes, and and there were easily 25 of OUR PEOPLE who just 'couldn't be bothered' to show up! :mad: :mad: :mad:

That's why this whole "I'm not soiling myself by getting involved" attitude stinks to high heaven and makes me so angry I want to spit. With just 15 more people at the last State Convention...FIFTEEN PEOPLE out of fifteen HUNDRED (that's 1% folks) we'd have had OUR guy as State GOP Chairman today.

Then we come home and get to hear a bunch of brayying asses yak about how "see, I told you we shouldn't get involved, that stuff never works." Well no shyt Sherlock. When our ranks are dominated by summer soldiers and sunshine patriots who turn and flee at the first sign of hardship, it doesn't work.

Too many times over the last 2 years I have seen FIRST HAND how we lose a critical vote by ONE vote, ONE vote (for instance, we just lost 2nd District Chair a week ago by one vote -- ONE VOTE) to come and hear about ppl crying about how we shouldn't even try.

These people have no idea how CLOSE we have been at EVERY step of the way these last 24 months. We have literally been right on the heels of the establishment at every single contest. You and I know, because we have seen it for ourselves. If we had just 2% more people who can be bothered to SHOW UP, we would dominate every single contest. That's not speculation, that's cold fact.

And no -- before someone suggests it, these votes are done in a way that is quite impossible to rig, sorry. We lost all these contests in a fair fight, because of people who had to clip their stupid toenails rather than show up to the conventions and raise their stupid hand when it came time to elect our guy.

Yeah, I'm disgusted by the attitude, because I KNOW (I don't think, speculate, postulate, or imagine, I KNOW, firsthand) that had all these people actually done what RP asked us to, then we'd own the whole GOP by now, and this whole discussion would be academic.

But noooooooooooo -- it's too much of a burden to bother doing what actually works, because we might have to talk to those ikky political people that we don't like. :rolleyes:

Yeah, that's exactly why we are in the mess we are in today. Summer soldiers and sunshine patriots, too 'clean' to get dirty and fight in the trenches where it actually makes a difference.

Thank God these weren't the sort of people who served in George Washington's army -- we'd still be on our knees before the British King.

Internet dweebs like me need a good healthy dose of this post, so I'm bumping it.

[tangent4ronpaul]

n/m my mistake

-t

[lester1/2jr]

I'm suprisingly elated.

[ItsTime]

Did you get liberty candidates up and running IN YOUR STATES? If not you have no one to blame but yourself if the NEO-CONS take over congress in 2010.

[GunnyFreedom]

Did you get liberty candidates up and running IN YOUR STATES? If not you have no one to blame but yourself if the NEO-CONS take over congress in 2010.

hear here! +1776

[aclove]

Glen, my friend, that was a post full of win. Good on ya, Hoss.

[aclove]

LOL yes! I'm not much for TV, but I am a big science fiction fan from my youth, always waiting eagerly for the next Heinlein and Asimov release. IMHO, Farscape is/was the best television created in the entire history of the tube. I own the entire series, actually. 8-) occasionally, I get a burr in my saddle and watch the thing over again from season1 ep1 all the way through the Peacekeeper wars miniseries. :D

Folks just don't realize how many times we fall short on our goals by just 1 or 2 votes. We missed electing our guy for NCGOP Chairman by something like 12 votes, and and there were easily 25 of OUR PEOPLE who just 'couldn't be bothered' to show up! :mad: :mad: :mad:

That's why this whole "I'm not soiling myself by getting involved" attitude stinks to high heaven and makes me so angry I want to spit. With just 15 more people at the last State Convention...FIFTEEN PEOPLE out of fifteen HUNDRED (that's 1% folks) we'd have had OUR guy as State GOP Chairman today.

Then we come home and get to hear a bunch of brayying asses yak about how "see, I told you we shouldn't get involved, that stuff never works." Well no shyt Sherlock. When our ranks are dominated by summer soldiers and sunshine patriots who turn and flee at the first sign of hardship, it doesn't work.

Too many times over the last 2 years I have seen FIRST HAND how we lose a critical vote by ONE vote, ONE vote (for instance, we just lost 2nd District Chair a week ago by one vote -- ONE VOTE) to come and hear about ppl crying about how we shouldn't even try.

These people have no idea how CLOSE we have been at EVERY step of the way these last 24 months. We have literally been right on the heels of the establishment at every single contest. You and I know, because we have seen it for ourselves. If we had just 2% more people who can be bothered to SHOW UP, we would dominate every single contest. That's not speculation, that's cold fact.

And no -- before someone suggests it, these votes are done in a way that is quite impossible to rig, sorry. We lost all these contests in a fair fight, because of people who had to clip their stupid toenails rather than show up to the conventions and raise their stupid hand when it came time to elect our guy.

Yeah, I'm disgusted by the attitude, because I KNOW (I don't think, speculate, postulate, or imagine, I KNOW, firsthand) that had all these people actually done what RP asked us to, then we'd own the whole GOP by now, and this whole discussion would be academic.

But noooooooooooo -- it's too much of a burden to bother doing what actually works, because we might have to talk to those ikky political people that we don't like. :rolleyes:

Yeah, that's exactly why we are in the mess we are in today. Summer soldiers and sunshine patriots, too 'clean' to get dirty and fight in the trenches where it actually makes a difference.

Thank God these weren't the sort of people who served in George Washington's army -- we'd still be on our knees before the British King.

This being the aforementioned win-filled post.

[libertythor]

The biggest thing to celebrate is the coming congressional gridlock! That gives us time to get some liberty candidates in office for 2010 and 2012. Does anybody remember the lost opportunities between 1994 and 2000, when government growth was held somewhat in check?

[ItsTime]

Folks just don't realize how many times we fall short on our goals by just 1 or 2 votes. We missed electing our guy for NCGOP Chairman by something like 12 votes, and and there were easily 25 of OUR PEOPLE who just 'couldn't be bothered' to show up! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Then we come home and get to hear a bunch of brayying asses yak about how "see, I told you we shouldn't get involved, that stuff never works." Well no shyt Sherlock. When our ranks are dominated by summer soldiers and sunshine patriots who turn and flee at the first sign of hardship, it doesn't work.

Too many times over the last 2 years I have seen FIRST HAND how we lose a critical vote by ONE vote, ONE vote (for instance, we just lost 2nd District Chair a week ago by one vote -- ONE VOTE) to come and hear about ppl crying about how we shouldn't even try.

We lost all our Ron Paul Republican state seats by 1 and 2%. In this small of an area that is only a handful of votes. We can win these seats we just need to get out and do it.

[libertythor]

I take it Scott Brown is a neocon?

He might actually be one of the smaller government neocons (a la Coburn/Sanford).


His foreign policy appears to be neocon.


Israel
Israel has made enormous sacrifices in an attempt to secure peace – including unilateral withdrawal from Gaza. I support a two-state solution that reaffirms Israel’s right to exist and provides the Palestinians with a place of their own where both sides can live in peace and security. As our closest ally in the Middle East, Israel lives every day under the threat of terror yet shares with America a dedication to democratic ideals, a respect for faith, and a commitment to peace in the region. Until a lasting peace is achieved, I support the security barrier erected by Israel which has proven successful in protecting Israeli civilians from terrorist attacks

I really hope that that last clause doesn't indicate his desire to legislate "responsable gun ownership".


Gun issues
I support the Second Amendment and believe that citizens have the right to keep and bear arms as a basic constitutional liberty. I support safe and responsible gun ownership.

He is states rights on gay marriage.


Marriage
I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. States should be free to make their own laws in this area, so long as they reflect the people's will as expressed through them directly, or as expressed through their elected representatives.



Now of course we won't know until we see he voting record a few months from now.

[lester1/2jr]

the first thing Scott Brown should do is get the federal gov to cancel all subsidies for north korean architecture

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/brainiac/800px-Boston_City_Hall.JPG