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hawkiye
01-17-2010, 04:14 PM
Democracy is the Problem Not the Answer!

Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution lists the powers enumerated to the Federal government of which there are only 17. Most people realize now that those 17 have been far exceeded. What most people don't realize is most of those have nothing whatsoever to do with the people or the men and women themselves. For instance regulating commerce between the states had nothing to do with Joe blow selling something to John doe in another state. It only had to do with the state governments trading with other state governments.

Even if you disagree with that it is plain congress has no right to pass laws regarding what health care if any you choose to use or implement a national police force or regulate energy etc. etc.. If you want to see a Witch doctor for an aliment that is your business! Or whether you wear a set belt or grow a certain type plant in your yard etc. The basic foundation of the law is "oppress no one". As long as you are not oppressing, harming, or violating anyones rights, there is no crime period!

Even most of the state organic Constitutions have something to the effect that all political power is inherent in the people. That is what so many Americans have forgotten or rather have no memory of. All the things like Health care and the bailouts and individual taxes etc, etc, are completely outside the scope of authority of Congress, the President, the Supreme court, and even the state governments. The Constitution in article 4 promises a republican form of government not a democracy.

What happened? How has this been erased from the collective memory of the American mindset? It started almost from the beginning however the turning point was the Buck Act in 1935. Where everything was flipped from the republic to a Federal Municipal Corporate Democracy and no one said no. Now for almost 50 years no one except a very few have said no and silence is considered acquiescence.

If you as a group of people picked a delegate to represent lets say your district as a group and at the meeting and you were all there and your delegate stood up and spoke in favor of a measure totally against your collective will and all of you said or did nothing to stop your delegate from going against your will and the measure was passed would that not be tacit agreement? Well that is how socialist democracy has been approved of in this country. Not enough said no and everyone has accepted the benefits of the democracy in place of their sovereign rights. In short most of what congress does it has no authority to do at all and does not apply to the men and women themselves except by your own tacit agreement. NO ONE IS SAYING; NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY. Everyone is running around saying oh we have to vote them out instead. Don't you just love democracy...?

Now we have several generations who seem to think congress and even their state legislatures has a right to vote on every aspect of their lives when they do not. And now everyone is running around trying to get 51% on their side so they can tell the other 49% what to do. Continuing to participate in the democracy perpetuates it and perpetuates the ever increasing misery it is causing. DEMOCRACY IS THE PROBLEM NOT THE ANSWER.

Now most informed people will agree with this premise in principle but then will turn around and say yeah but if we do not participate [in the democracy] we will loose all control. What many don't realize is we have already lost all control, and because of our participation in democracy and our leaving the republican form, that is why we seem to be in such an impossible situation. Sort of like being on a hamster wheel. We keep running on the wheel but getting nowhere except increasingly exhausted and frustrated but are afraid to get off because we see nowhere else to go and fear if the wheel stops turning we will have nothing left but the walls of the cage to look at.

So what is the solution. The solution is to repopulate the republic and began to operate as the men and women who built this nation once did. That is to assemble on our counties and judicial districts of tens of fifties, and hundreds. etc. this may seem foreign to many because as I said most have no memory of operating on the republics. So the answer is to learn how to do it peacefully and orderly and let the democracy die of attrition.

Start here at http://oursammie.net and download and listen to these four mp3's to get you started on how to do this:

1 - under the "Assembly Info" tab, National Assembly calls Archives - download/listen to the first hour of the November 12, 2009 call

2 -* under the "Assembly Info" tab, central assembly union -* download/listen to the November 18th training call

3 - under the Assembly Info" tab, mountain assembly union - download/listen to the December 3rd training call

4 - under the Assembly Info" tab, eastern assembly union - download/ listen to the December 15th training call

Also go here to join a community of men and women across the country who are working hard to bring back the republic http://freeassembly.info

Stary Hickory
01-17-2010, 06:37 PM
Yes I agree for sure, and I support total nullification of unconstitutional legislation. This is the real solution, people have to wake up and just say no.

__27__
01-17-2010, 10:57 PM
'A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.'

'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.'

'From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.'

'The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years'

'During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;

2. From spiritual faith to great courage;

3. From courage to liberty;

4. From liberty to abundance;

5. From abundance to complacency;

6. From complacency to apathy;

7. From apathy to dependence;

8. From dependence back into bondage'

~Alexander Tyler

Dr.3D
01-17-2010, 11:03 PM
'A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.'

'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.'

'From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.'

'The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years'

'During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;

2. From spiritual faith to great courage;

3. From courage to liberty;

4. From liberty to abundance;

5. From abundance to complacency;

6. From complacency to apathy;

7. From apathy to dependence;

8. From dependence back into bondage'

~Alexander Tyler

Once again, the cycle continues. :mad:

Will people ever learn from history, so they don't have to repeat the errors of the previous civilizations?

FrankRep
01-18-2010, 02:25 AM
We are a Republic, not a democracy.


The American Form of Government
YouTube - The American Form of Government (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgE)

Austrian Econ Disciple
01-18-2010, 02:39 AM
We are a Republic, not a democracy.


The American Form of Government
YouTube - The American Form of Government (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgE)

A Republic is a form of Democracy.

Dieseler
01-18-2010, 02:41 AM
Our Republic is a Republic, with limited Democratic principles.

FrankRep
01-18-2010, 02:52 AM
A Republic is a form of Democracy.

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
-- John Adams



Are We a Republic or a Democracy? (http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4080)

by Walter Williams
January 5, 2005


We often hear the claim that our nation is a democracy. That wasn't the vision of the founders. They saw democracy as another form of tyranny. If we've become a democracy, I guarantee you that the founders would be deeply disappointed by our betrayal of their vision. The founders intended, and laid out the ground rules, for our nation to be a republic.

The word democracy appears nowhere in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution -- two most fundamental documents of our nation. Instead of a democracy, the Constitution's Article IV, Section 4, guarantees "to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government."

Moreover, let's ask ourselves: Does our pledge of allegiance to the flag say to "the democracy for which it stands," or does it say to "the republic for which it stands"? Or do we sing "The Battle Hymn of the Democracy" or "The Battle Hymn of the Republic"?

So what's the difference between republican and democratic forms of government? John Adams captured the essence of the difference when he said, "You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe." Nothing in our Constitution suggests that government is a grantor of rights. Instead, government is a protector of rights.

In recognition that it's Congress that poses the greatest threat to our liberties, the framers used negative phrases against Congress throughout the Constitution such as: shall not abridge, infringe, deny, disparage, and shall not be violated, nor be denied. In a republican form of government, there is rule of law. All citizens, including government officials, are accountable to the same laws. Government power is limited and decentralized through a system of checks and balances. Government intervenes in civil society to protect its citizens against force and fraud but does not intervene in the cases of peaceable, voluntary exchange.

Contrast the framers' vision of a republic with that of a democracy. In a democracy, the majority rules either directly or through its elected representatives. As in a monarchy, the law is whatever the government determines it to be. Laws do not represent reason. They represent power. The restraint is upon the individual instead of government. Unlike that envisioned under a republican form of government, rights are seen as privileges and permissions that are granted by government and can be rescinded by government.

How about a few quotations demonstrating the disdain our founders held for democracy? James Madison, Federalist Paper No. 10: In a pure democracy, "there is nothing to check the inducement to sacrifice the weaker party or the obnoxious individual." At the 1787 Constitutional Convention, Edmund Randolph said, " ... that in tracing these evils to their origin every man had found it in the turbulence and follies of democracy."

John Adams said, "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." Chief Justice John Marshall observed, "Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos." In a word or two, the founders knew that a democracy would lead to the same kind of tyranny the colonies suffered under King George III.

The framers gave us a Constitution that is replete with undemocratic mechanisms. One that has come in for recent criticism and calls for its elimination is the Electoral College. In their wisdom, the framers gave us the Electoral College so that in presidential elections large, heavily populated states couldn't democratically run roughshod over small, sparsely populated states.

Here's my question. Do Americans share the republican values laid out by our founders, and is it simply a matter of our being unschooled about the differences between a republic and a democracy? Or is it a matter of preference and we now want the kind of tyranny feared by the founders where Congress can do anything it can muster a majority vote to do? I fear it's the latter.


Born in Philadelphia in 1936, Walter E. Williams holds a bachelor's degree in economics from California State University (1965) and a master's degree (1967) and doctorate (1972) in economics from the University of California at Los Angeles.


SOURCE:
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4080

Austrian Econ Disciple
01-18-2010, 02:57 AM
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
-- John Adams



Are We a Republic or a Democracy? (http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4080)

by Walter Williams
January 5, 2005


We often hear the claim that our nation is a democracy. That wasn't the vision of the founders. They saw democracy as another form of tyranny. If we've become a democracy, I guarantee you that the founders would be deeply disappointed by our betrayal of their vision. The founders intended, and laid out the ground rules, for our nation to be a republic.

The word democracy appears nowhere in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution -- two most fundamental documents of our nation. Instead of a democracy, the Constitution's Article IV, Section 4, guarantees "to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government."

Moreover, let's ask ourselves: Does our pledge of allegiance to the flag say to "the democracy for which it stands," or does it say to "the republic for which it stands"? Or do we sing "The Battle Hymn of the Democracy" or "The Battle Hymn of the Republic"?

So what's the difference between republican and democratic forms of government? John Adams captured the essence of the difference when he said, "You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe." Nothing in our Constitution suggests that government is a grantor of rights. Instead, government is a protector of rights.

In recognition that it's Congress that poses the greatest threat to our liberties, the framers used negative phrases against Congress throughout the Constitution such as: shall not abridge, infringe, deny, disparage, and shall not be violated, nor be denied. In a republican form of government, there is rule of law. All citizens, including government officials, are accountable to the same laws. Government power is limited and decentralized through a system of checks and balances. Government intervenes in civil society to protect its citizens against force and fraud but does not intervene in the cases of peaceable, voluntary exchange.

Contrast the framers' vision of a republic with that of a democracy. In a democracy, the majority rules either directly or through its elected representatives. As in a monarchy, the law is whatever the government determines it to be. Laws do not represent reason. They represent power. The restraint is upon the individual instead of government. Unlike that envisioned under a republican form of government, rights are seen as privileges and permissions that are granted by government and can be rescinded by government.

How about a few quotations demonstrating the disdain our founders held for democracy? James Madison, Federalist Paper No. 10: In a pure democracy, "there is nothing to check the inducement to sacrifice the weaker party or the obnoxious individual." At the 1787 Constitutional Convention, Edmund Randolph said, " ... that in tracing these evils to their origin every man had found it in the turbulence and follies of democracy."

John Adams said, "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." Chief Justice John Marshall observed, "Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos." In a word or two, the founders knew that a democracy would lead to the same kind of tyranny the colonies suffered under King George III.

The framers gave us a Constitution that is replete with undemocratic mechanisms. One that has come in for recent criticism and calls for its elimination is the Electoral College. In their wisdom, the framers gave us the Electoral College so that in presidential elections large, heavily populated states couldn't democratically run roughshod over small, sparsely populated states.

Here's my question. Do Americans share the republican values laid out by our founders, and is it simply a matter of our being unschooled about the differences between a republic and a democracy? Or is it a matter of preference and we now want the kind of tyranny feared by the founders where Congress can do anything it can muster a majority vote to do? I fear it's the latter.


Born in Philadelphia in 1936, Walter E. Williams holds a bachelor's degree in economics from California State University (1965) and a master's degree (1967) and doctorate (1972) in economics from the University of California at Los Angeles.


SOURCE:
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4080

Do you vote? What about state referendums? Is there a mechanism to enforce the law (IE a body that doesn't make its own rules and expected to enforce those rules)? You expect the State to limit itself?

FrankRep
01-18-2010, 02:59 AM
Do you vote?
Do I have a fair trail? We are a government based on laws, not MOB RULE.

Austrian Econ Disciple
01-18-2010, 03:01 AM
Our Republic is a Republic, with limited Democratic principles.

Who enforces violations of the rule of law? The same entity that creates the laws and is ultimate arbiter? Ha! Moreover, any system that uses a plurality to constitute victory, is indeed, a Democracy.

Dieseler
01-18-2010, 03:04 AM
Who enforces violations of the rule of law? The same entity that creates the laws and is ultimate arbiter? Ha! Moreover, any system that uses a plurality to constitute victory, is indeed, a Democracy.

What are you gonna do about it?
Lol.

FrankRep
01-18-2010, 03:07 AM
Who enforces violations of the rule of law? The same entity that creates the laws and is ultimate arbiter? Ha! Moreover, any system that uses a plurality to constitute victory, is indeed, a Democracy.

"Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
-- John Adams


You have front row tickets to watch John Adams' words come to life.

Austrian Econ Disciple
01-18-2010, 03:13 AM
Per mods, I will not continue this thread on General, but I will PM you to continue and anyone who wishes to see my responses can kindly ask in PM.

Dieseler
01-18-2010, 03:14 AM
Per mods, I will not continue this thread on General, but I will PM you to continue and anyone who wishes to see my responses can kindly ask in PM.

I'll pass.
I prefer to continue the effort of keeping my Republic.

Austrian Econ Disciple
01-18-2010, 03:45 AM
I'll pass.
I prefer to continue the effort of keeping my Republic.

You mean you will fight to continue to be subjugated?