UK: New tests show that Antarctica Ice is Increasing, not Melting

[FrankRep]

Now tests show the ice ISN'T melting: Sea water under shelf in the East Antarctic is still freezing (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1242398/Now-tests-ice-ISNT-melting-Sea-water-shelf-East-Antarctic-freezing.html)


Mail Online UK
12 Jan 2010


Sea water under an East Antarctic ice shelf showed no sign of higher temperatures, first tests showed today.

Despite fears of a thaw linked to global warming that could bring higher world ocean levels, tests conducted on the Fimbul Ice Shelf showed the sea water is still around freezing point.

Thanks to sensors, lowered through three holes drilled in the shelf, scientists have discovered the water is not at higher temperatures widely blamed for the break-up of 10 shelves on the Antarctic Peninsula, the most northerly part of the frozen continent.

After drilling through the shelf, which is between 250 metres and 400 metres thick, Ole Anders Noest of the Norwegian Polar Institute wrote in a statement: 'The water under the ice shelf is very close to the freezing point.

'This situation seems to be stable, suggesting that the melting under the ice shelf does not increase.'

The findings, a rare bit of good news after worrying signs in recent years of polar warming, adds a small bit to a puzzle about how Antarctica is responding to climate change - blamed largely on human use of fossil fuels.

Antarctica holds enough water to raise world sea levels by 57 metres (187ft) if it ever melted entirely, so even tiny changes are a risk for low-lying coasts or cities from Beijing to New York.

The Institute said the water under the Fimbul was about -2.05 degrees Celsius (28.31 Fahrenheit) - salt water freezes at a slightly lower temperature than fresh water.

And it was slightly icier than estimates in a regional computer model for Antarctica, said Nalan Koc, head of the Norwegian Polar Institute's Centre for Ice, Climate and Ecosystems.

'The important thing is that we are now in a position to monitor the water beneath the ice shelf,' she told Reuters.

'If there is a warming in future we can tell.'

She said data collected could go into a new report by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, due in 2013-14.

The last IPCC report, in 2007, did not include models for sea temperature around the Fimbul Ice Shelf.

Experts have generally raised estimates for sea level rise - the United Nations spoke in late 2009 of a maximum 2 metre rise by 2100, up from 18-59 cms estimated by the IPCC in 2007 that excluded any possible acceleration from Antarctica.

The break-up of ice shelves does not in itself contribute to raise sea levels since the ice is already floating.

The risk is that pent-up glaciers on land will flow faster towards the ocean if the shelves are removed.

Last month, scientists were stunned by an iceberg twice the size of Hong Kong that was picked up by satellite imagery drifting towards Australia.

The whopping ice slab, nearly 87 square miles in size and weighing 200 billion tons, is already far closer to Australia than icebergs normally travel, about 1700km south-southwest of Western Australia.

Glaciologist Neal Young said he thinks the iceberg broke off the Antarctic about 10 years ago and has been slowly floating around the icy continent before embarking on its unusual route north.

However, he dismissed a link between the iceberg's journey and global warming, insisting it had nothing to do with climate change.

In December, most nations agreed at a Copenhagen climate summit to limit any rise in world temperatures to below 2 Celsius above pre-industrial times.

But they failed to set cuts in greenhouse gas emissions needed to achieve the goal.


SOURCE:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1242398/Now-tests-ice-ISNT-melting-Sea-water-shelf-East-Antarctic-freezing.html#ixzz0cnnBevyK




Forget Global Warming; COLD Kills
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/2739-forget-global-warming-cold-kills

The Chilling Effect of Global Warming
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/2725-the-chilling-effect-of-global-warming

Pachauri's Lucrative World of Climate Change
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/world-mainmenu-26/europe-mainmenu-35/2683-pachauris-lucrative-world-of-climate-change

Copenhagen Report: Obama Fails to "Seal the Deal"
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/world-mainmenu-26/europe-mainmenu-35/2676-copenhagen-report-obama-fails-to-qseal-the-dealq

Cheers and Jeers at Copenhagen’s Climate Conference
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/world-mainmenu-26/europe-mainmenu-35/2674-cheers-and-jeers-at-copenhagens-climate-conference

AP Caught Misleading On Climategate
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/2662-ap-caught-misleading-on-climategate

Climate 
“Teacup Tempest”?
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/2589-climate-teacup-tempest

Gore Caught in Eco-Lies
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/2573-gore-caught-in-eco-lies

"Skeptic" Climate Conference Challenges UN
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/2541-qskepticq-climate-conference-challenges-un

Climategate: E-mail Scandal Could Melt Copenhagen Plans
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/2383-climategate-e-mail-scandal-could-melt-copenhagen-plans

[fatjohn]

lol am I the only one imagining such an iceberg to get stuck in the english channel? I see a new disaster movie coming.

[JustinTime]

Its hilarious how the enviros just keep blindly insisting the world is ending when the evidence agaisnt them is becoming a mountain. I laughed as ass off at the collection of weirdos and nutcases in Copenhagen last month, acting like the Climategate scandal hadnt even happened.

I would laugh at the media coverage doing the same too, but its the main way of keeping Global Warming Hysteria alive, so its too serious to even chuckle at.

[FrankRep]

World misled over Himalayan glacier meltdown


Times Online UK
January 17, 2010

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6991177.ece

[steve005]

bump

[squarepusher]

///

[Zippyjuan]

Ice actually melts faster in colder water (closer to freezing temperatures) than in hot water. Try it sometime. Information on melting ice in Antartica is mixed- like the weather on all large land masses some parts get warmer than others. People on one side can cite locations with slower melting ice while others can say no- here it is melting faster. Is Antartica getting warmer? Yes. Is it getting colder? Well, yes to that too. Is this proof for/ against global warming? Honestly, it is neither proof or disproof of either side.

[Elwar]

With this global cooling phenomenon I'm going to start selling Carbon credits where countries will pay me to run my old 1978 Oldsmobile Delta 88 with broken tailpipe just before the catalitic converter.

[ItsTime]

With this global cooling phenomenon I'm going to start selling Carbon credits where countries will pay me to run my old 1978 Oldsmobile Delta 88 with broken tailpipe just before the catalitic converter.

Our cars are too good, we must pay developing countries to drive old beaters.

[squarepusher]

Ice actually melts faster in colder water (closer to freezing temperatures) than in hot water. Try it sometime. Information on melting ice in Antartica is mixed- like the weather on all large land masses some parts get warmer than others. People on one side can cite locations with slower melting ice while others can say no- here it is melting faster. Is Antartica getting warmer? Yes. Is it getting colder? Well, yes to that too. Is this proof for/ against global warming? Honestly, it is neither proof or disproof of either side.

can you provide any sources for this Zippy?

[Elwar]

Our cars are too good, we must pay developing countries to drive old beaters.

lol

[angelatc]

Ice actually melts faster in colder water (closer to freezing temperatures) than in hot water. Try it sometime.

I try it every time I make Iced Tea, but my results are much different. If I put ice in hot liquid it doesn't last nearly as long as ice I put in cold water.

Are you sure you're not thinking about "hot water freezes faster than cold?" I've heard that's true, because the hot water creates an upward air current which speeds up the freezing but I've never tried it, or even googled it for that matter.
****
OK - I had to go google that "ice melts faster" thing. "Heat transfer varies directly with temperature difference; hence the transfer of heat from water to ice is faster when the water is hot." So cold water can't melt ice faster than hot water.

[FrankRep]

I try it every time I make Iced Tea, but my results are much different. If I put ice in hot liquid it doesn't last nearly as long as ice I put in cold water.

:D

[pacelli]

I remember when I was in grade school, the Science teachers lectured us about the next big thing coming is a new ice age. Of course that was a long time ago.

[FrankRep]

Met Office computer accused of 'warm bias' by BBC weatherman

Daily Mail UK
17th January 2010

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1243846/Met-Office-accused-warm-bias-BBC-weatherman.html

[Zippyjuan]

I try it every time I make Iced Tea, but my results are much different. If I put ice in hot liquid it doesn't last nearly as long as ice I put in cold water.

Are you sure you're not thinking about "hot water freezes faster than cold?" I've heard that's true, because the hot water creates an upward air current which speeds up the freezing but I've never tried it, or even googled it for that matter.
****
OK - I had to go google that "ice melts faster" thing. "Heat transfer varies directly with temperature difference; hence the transfer of heat from water to ice is faster when the water is hot." So cold water can't melt ice faster than hot water.

I was trying to go by memory. As the ice melts in a hot water, the melting ice on the outside forms a bit of insulation from the hot water which slows the melting. Colder water is closer to the same so the ice does not have to change its temperature as much to go from solid to liquid. Can't find enough info to support/ disprove this so far. I know that when you want to defrost a turkey quickly you need to do it in very cold water - not warm- and change the water every hour or so to keep it as cold as you can so that the thawing gets to the center of the bird. http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/tools-and-techniques/question516.htm

As for Antartica, here is one report of it getting warmer and melting faster in East Antartica (article from past November):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/22/east-antarctic-ice-sheet-nasa

The East Antarctic ice sheet, which makes up three-quarters of the continent's 14,000 sq km, is losing around 57bn tonnes of ice a year into surrounding waters, according to a satellite survey of the region.

Scientists had thought the ice sheet was reasonably stable, but measurements taken from Nasa's gravity recovery and climate experiment (Grace) show that it started to lose ice steadily from 2006.


On the other hand is the article from April in the original post (seven months earlier). Searches find articles making both claims of ice growing or shrinking.

Slate online magazine claims that growing ice in Antartica is proof of warming- that warmer temperatures are leading to more precipitation near Antartica meaning more snowfall to make more ice from.
http://www.slate.com/id/2192730/

No one's entirely sure what's causing the expansion of sea ice in Antarctica, but the likeliest explanation is a disturbing one. According to a 2005 NASA-funded study, warmer temperatures have caused greater snowfall around the continent's edges, where the open oceans provide plenty of raw material for precipitation. (Warmer air absorbs moisture more readily.) The weight of that excess snow pushes sheets of sea ice down into the water, causing more water to freeze.

The incremental expansion of Antarctica's sea ice has coincided with some more troubling changes. Four of the continent's largest glaciers (whose fates are largely unrelated to that of sea ice) are retreating rapidly, and researchers blame increases in ocean temperature. The diminishment of such massive glaciers means that, despite the slow creep forward of the continent's sea ice, the total mass of all Antarctic ice—which includes inland ice—has experienced a marked decrease. And a continuation of that trend could lead to significant rises in global sea levels. Furthermore, snow is melting much farther inland than ever, as well as high up in the Transantarctic Mountains.

Some of these events might be due to causes that aren't necessarily related to human activity; it's been well-established, for example, that the Antarctic is heavily affected by naturally occurring El Niño/La Niña cycles in ways that scientists have yet to fully comprehend. But the Lantern remains convinced that our species' carbon output is changing things for the worse down in the land of penguins.

[dannno]

I was trying to go by memory. As the ice melts in a hot water, the melting ice on the outside forms a bit of insulation from the hot water which slows the melting. Colder water is closer to the same so the ice does not have to change its temperature as much to go from solid to liquid. Can't find enough info to support/ disprove this so far.

Just try putting an ice cube in hot water, and put another one in cold water from your sink and see which one melts first.

My money is on the hot water.