Catherine Bleish calls Dr. Paul a traitor. Sad

[qh4dotcom]

On her Facebook page



Well, John Bush just got Dr. Paul on tape saying he made an agreement to support all republican incumbants in Texas. Traitor.

[TheConstitutionLives]

On her Facebook page

Who the hell is Catherine Bleish and why should we care? And this should prolly be in RP Grassroots forum instead of General Politics.

[qh4dotcom]

Who the hell is Catherine Bleish and why should we care?

She's a liberty activist. Lots of people here know her.

[RM918]

Hasn't he been doing this awhile already?

[LibertyEagle]

Yes. I think he had to do it to keep his spot on the committees he serves on.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I can't imagine Ron supporting Perry over Medina, nor can I imagine Ron supporting any non-liberty persons. I could be wrong....if I am a sad day indeed. :(

[FSP-Rebel]

Cathy flies off the handle easily. She is an anarchist afterall..

[literatim]

Odds are it has to do with Democrat vs Republican federal races. So Ron Paul won't suport Libertarians running, Cathy flies off the handle.

[MikeStanart]

My assumption would be he's referring to Congressional Candidates? I don't see how supporting Medina, Perry, or Hutchison would have any weight on committee appointments.

[MikeStanart]

Odds are it has to do with Democrat vs Republican federal races. So Ron Paul won't suport Libertarians running, Cathy flies off the handle.

And this.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Cathy flies off the handle easily. She is an anarchist afterall..

Got something against anarchists?

Ron didn't support McCain in the Presidential election, and he went ahead and supported Baldwin who was the best liberty-candidate in 08'. Why would he flip for this? Again, sad day. It's like Murray supporting Pat Buchanan, was a sad day then too.

[LibertyEagle]

Take it to PM.

[Bman]

YouTube - The Gambler Muppets (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxTmOOvigJY&feature=related)

[dannno]

What's with all the bicycle references :confused:

[revolutionary8]

I have met Catherine before I think. Lovely lady. I believe that she did all the grunt work re: MIAC??.
I will believe it when I see it, and AFAIK, CB hasn't seen it either.

Lets hear/see for ouselves before we jump to conclusions, No? Innocent until proven guilty? Or No?

I'm sorta bummed right now.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I have met Catherine before I think. Lovely lady. I believe that she did all the grunt work re: MIAC??.
I will believe it when I see it, and AFAIK, CB hasn't seen it either.

Lets hear/see for ouselves before we jump to conclusions, No? Innocent until proven guilty? Or No?

I'm sorta bummed right now.

Yes, Catherine is a very active liberty-activist, she was also a delegate at CC2009.

YouTube - End The Fed Rally Chicago 2009 - Catherine Bleish Speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr_Ii1Pqp-I)

I was there for this, she did well. She was also arrested for some bullshit failure to comply Police-State non-sense a few months back.

I wish Minarchists would join us anarchists in more CD and more activism.

[Bman]

Yes, Catherine is a very active liberty-activist, she was also a delegate at CC2009.


Yipes!!! She's a munchkin.

[revolutionary8]

Yes, Catherine is a very active liberty-activist, she was also a delegate at CC2009.

YouTube - End The Fed Rally Chicago 2009 - Catherine Bleish Speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr_Ii1Pqp-I)

I was there for this, she did well. She was also arrested for some bullshit failure to comply Police-State non-sense a few months back.

I wish Minarchists would join us anarchists in more CD and more activism.

You skipped over the point of my post. Once again,
I will believe it when I see it.
Catherine is accusing Ron Paul of basic TYRANNY, yet we have seen no video SO THAT WE MAY DECIDE FOR OURSELVES.

Perhaps Ron Paul People ARE TOO DUMB FOR CATHERINE?

Perhaps we cannot view the video and decide for ourselves? Perhaps Catherine B, via whathisname is sufficient "evidence" for Ron Paul people?

WTF????


hmm...
its best we don't go there.

Once again,
let us see the video. Let us decide for ourselves.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

You skipped over the point of my post. Once again,
I will believe it when I see it.
Catherine is accusing Ron Paul of basic TYRANNY, yet we have seen no video SO THAT WE MAY DECIDE FOR OURSELVES.

Perhaps Ron Paul People ARE TOO SMART FOR CATHERINE?


hmm...
its best we don't go there.

Once again,
let us see the video. Let us decide for ourselves.

I wasn't critiquing your post at all. I was elaborating about Catherine and her activities for the movement. I do agree, we should see or hear the tape.

[revolutionary8]

I wasn't critiquing your post at all. I was elaborating about Catherine and her activities for the movement. I do agree, we should see or hear the tape.

Yes, it would clear things up quickly, and ttytt, I don't believe a world "Catherine's Source" said.
Not until I see it at least.

[Oyate]

Yes, it would clear things up quickly, and ttytt, I don't believe a world "Catherine's Source" said.
Not until I see it at least.

I've worked with Catherine, she's got a great rep among younger activists. She's a fireball for sure. I'm disposed to stand behind her in spite of any one-liner she might throw up on some blog. I know who she is, I know how dedicated she is. Right now I believe she's still on her national tour to educate people about Fusion Centers.

[revolutionary8]

I've worked with Catherine, she's got a great rep among younger activists. She's a fireball for sure. I'm disposed to stand behind her in spite of any one-liner she might throw up on some blog. I know who she is, I know how dedicated she is. Right now I believe she's still on her national tour to educate people about Fusion Centers.

Oyate,
tell her to release the video.
That's all I ask. We are arguing a STRAWMAN.

Once again, show us the video.
SOMEONE MADE A CLAIM, HOLD THEM TO IT.
FEET TO THE FIRE.

[revolutionary8]

I've worked with Catherine, she's got a great rep among younger activists. She's a fireball for sure. I'm disposed to stand behind her in spite of any one-liner she might throw up on some blog. I know who she is, I know how dedicated she is. Right now I believe she's still on her national tour to educate people about Fusion Centers.
Then she shouldn't mess w/ Ron Paul and not expect BLOWBACK.

I want to see the video.

Show us how "smart" you are...

We've all seen the Sound Of Music when "Heinrich" blew the whistle.

[dannno]

We've all seen the Sound Of Music when "Heinrich" blew the whistle.

Dude I made Ron Pauloween candy with her back in '07, I can assure you this is not some elaborate scheme...

[Oyate]

Oyate,
tell her to release the video.

Hey quit telling me what to do.


That's all I ask. We are arguing a STRAWMAN.

I'm not arguing anything. I'll likely stand behind Cath either way.


Once again, show us the video.

Ain't got it. I can show you my new camp stove if you come over.


SOMEONE MADE A CLAIM, HOLD THEM TO IT.

No you.


FEET TO THE FIRE.

What you have a taste for roast feet? Talk about foot in your mouth.

[freedoms-light]

I can't imagine Ron supporting Perry over Medina, nor can I imagine Ron supporting any non-liberty persons. I could be wrong....if I am a sad day indeed. :(

h ttp://blogs.chron.com/texaspolitics/archives/2009/09/ron_paul_touts.html

Ron Paul touts Debra Medina for governor

This isn't exactly a letter of endorsement, but U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Clute, writes glowingly about Republican gubernatorial candidate Debra Medina.

The letter was provided to me by Medina's campaign. She is taking on Gov. Rick Perry and U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison in the GOP primary. The letter:

Dear Defender of Liberty,

I would like to introduce you to a good friend of mine, Debra Medina. I have known Debra for over ten years and have always been impressed by her drive and commitment to principle. Debra has been a real defender of Liberty both in her home town of Wharton and across the state of Texas.

Debra has for years been a key supporter and member of my campaign team. As chairman of the Wharton County Republican Party, she has stood up to the big government establishment and fought to hold our party accountable to our platform and our conservative Texas values. Because of her leadership and organizational skills, I asked Debra to serve on the board of directors of my national grassroots action group, Campaign for Liberty, where she has played an important role in our fight to defend our Constitution.

In addition to her political accomplishments, I am proud of Debra for the person she is. Debra Medina is a loving wife, a home school mother of two talented honor students, and a successful business owner. Debra is a true success story and role model for Texans across our state.

I am proud to call Debra Medina a friend, and as a fellow Texan, I encourage you to get to know her. Debra is exploring a run for higher office and would appreciate your input on her effort. You can learn more about her at www.medinafortexas.com.

I am sure we will look to Debra for leadership in my community and across our state for many years to come.

In Liberty,
Ron Paul

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

h ttp://blogs.chron.com/texaspolitics/archives/2009/09/ron_paul_touts.html

Ron Paul touts Debra Medina for governor

This isn't exactly a letter of endorsement, but U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Clute, writes glowingly about Republican gubernatorial candidate Debra Medina.

The letter was provided to me by Medina's campaign. She is taking on Gov. Rick Perry and U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison in the GOP primary. The letter:

Dear Defender of Liberty,

I would like to introduce you to a good friend of mine, Debra Medina. I have known Debra for over ten years and have always been impressed by her drive and commitment to principle. Debra has been a real defender of Liberty both in her home town of Wharton and across the state of Texas.

Debra has for years been a key supporter and member of my campaign team. As chairman of the Wharton County Republican Party, she has stood up to the big government establishment and fought to hold our party accountable to our platform and our conservative Texas values. Because of her leadership and organizational skills, I asked Debra to serve on the board of directors of my national grassroots action group, Campaign for Liberty, where she has played an important role in our fight to defend our Constitution.

In addition to her political accomplishments, I am proud of Debra for the person she is. Debra Medina is a loving wife, a home school mother of two talented honor students, and a successful business owner. Debra is a true success story and role model for Texans across our state.

I am proud to call Debra Medina a friend, and as a fellow Texan, I encourage you to get to know her. Debra is exploring a run for higher office and would appreciate your input on her effort. You can learn more about her at www.medinafortexas.com.

I am sure we will look to Debra for leadership in my community and across our state for many years to come.

In Liberty,
Ron Paul

This was in the past, but if Ron has just came out in support of all Republican incumbents in Texas for some political scheme to be on a committee it is a terrible day. :(

[RideTheDirt]

YouTube - Ron Paul's Incumbent Protection Plan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmJqSLNy8ms)

That doesn't sound like a very strong endorsement.:rolleyes:

[dr. hfn]

Wtf

[JK/SEA]

Well, i guess the revolution is over. Close the doors put out the lights.

yawn...next?

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

You let me down Ron. Well, Ron has just been knocked down a few notches in my book.

[dr. hfn]

this is John Tates and Mike Rothfelds doing! :p

[revolutionary8]

You let me down Ron. Well, Ron has just been knocked down a few notches in my book.


you are WAY OFF.
CATTHERINE and "her source" have been knocked down "a few knotches" in my book.
How ON EARTH, you would listen to "CB" through an "Unknown" source, rather than a 10 TERM Congressman who has been fighting the fed since he READ about it, IS BEYOND ME.
but, GO FIGURE.

And lemme push full throttle,
YOU HAVE NO PROOF.
show US the video.

[freedoms-light]

Sounds like a hard choice to me.
Would he actually loose his committee appointments??
No RP on banking and foreign policy committees, no HR 1207 etc.?
Would it be worth that?
It must have been a hard choice for Ron.
Then to get torn up by his fellow patriots.
If that happened to me I'd just resign and let the movement self destruct.
But then, that's why Ron Paul has been so effective compared with me, and probably a lot of others who supported him.

[revolutionary8]

Sounds like a hard choice to me.
Would he actually loose his committee appointments??
No RP on banking and foreign policy committees, no HR 1207 etc.?
Would it be worth that?
It must have been a hard choice for Ron.
Then to get torn up by his fellow patriots.
If that happened to me I'd just resign and let the movement self destruct.
But then, that's why Ron Paul has been so effective compared with me, and probably a lot of others who supported him.

No hard choice. I want to see the video. I want to see CATHERINE BLEICHE'S VIDEO.
Not so much to ask.

BUCK THE FUCK UP CB.
YOU SHOULD HAVE POSTED THE VIDEO THE MINUTE YOU POSTED THE ACCUSATION LADY. NOW BUCK THE FITY F UP.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

No hard choice. I want to see the video.

It's been posted, perhaps you should go to page 3?

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

No hard choice. I want to see the video. I want to see CATHERINE BLEICHE'S VIDEO.
Not so much to ask.

BUCK THE FUCK UP CB.
YOU SHOULD HAVE POSTED THE VIDEO THE MINUTE YOU POSTED THE ACCUSATION LADY. NOW BUCK UP.

Go to page three. This is an ominous sign to be sure. If Ron win's the Presidency whats he going to do? Go with the wishes of the Party because of whatever power plays? I'm sorry, but no one who loves liberty can blindly support fascists for the sake of political power.

[revolutionary8]

Ron Paul has been supporting "Texas Incumbants", huh? Yeah, that is why he voted for Perry, and endorsed Bush? That is why he supports Medina, and EMPLOYED her... Ron Paul LOVES Kay Bailey...
Don't get me started...

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Ron Paul has been supporting "Texas Incumbants", huh? Yeah, that is why he voted for Perry, and endorsed Bush? That is why he supports Medina, and EMPLOYED her... Ron Paul LOVES Kay Bailey...
Don't get me started...

YouTube - Ron Paul's Incumbent Protection Plan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmJqSLNy8ms)

[RM918]

Hrm. I'm rather unaffected by the whole thing. I'm not really seeing it as a 'slap in the face', he's been sort of tacitly supporting other Republicans for awhile (in reference to the 'support' of incumbents), and this 'support' seems rather ceremonial to me rather than anything with any meaning. He also was sort of, you know, in a hurry and that was kind of an ambush. That guy got what he wanted and sped off like a hyena.

[hotbrownsauce]

We don't know what the agreement terms were. If Ron endorsed the incumbents in Texas then so be it. No one is perfect damn it! I challenge everyone to do better than Ron in what he has done for us already. This to me is stupid and wasting my time.

[revolutionary8]

YouTube - Ron Paul's Incumbent Protection Plan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmJqSLNy8ms)

Oh jeexus. And the minute he becomes honest, we throw him under the bus..



Now, you try to convice the rest of us that he is a pwn, and we will sit and watch you burn, along w/ CB.

GET A GRIP.

[dr. hfn]

if we let this destroy us, we might as well just kill ourselves

[RM918]

We don't know what the agreement terms were. If Ron endorsed the incumbents in Texas then so be it. No one is perfect damn it! I challenge everyone to do better than Ron in what he has done for us already. This to me is stupid and wasting my time.

It's going to be a shitstorm regardless. I really wish he could've answered that a bit better.

I'm going to say I disagree with Paul's actions here, but this is state politics. Unless he starts doing stuff far worse than this and becomes a consistant hack like the rest of the congress are on a far more constant basis, I'm far from dropping my support of him. He's going to have to fuck up a LOT worse for me to call him a traitor.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

It's going to be a shitstorm regardless. I really wish he could've answered that a bit better.

I'm going to say I disagree with Paul's actions here, but this is state politics. Unless he starts doing stuff far worse than this and becomes a consistant hack like the rest of the congress are on a far more constant basis, I'm far from dropping my support of him. He's going to have to fuck up a LOT worse for me to call him a traitor.

I'm not going to stop supporting him over this, but it is a dreadful sign. How can someone who says they love liberty and fights for it, contradict himself and support fascists? I always keep Patrick Henry in my mind. Ron you are treading on thin ice with me.

[revolutionary8]

YouTube - Ron Paul's Incumbent Protection Plan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmJqSLNy8ms)
Yeah,
Ron Paul sucks. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Damn YANKEES.

[LibertyEagle]

I'm not going to stop supporting him over this, but it is a dreadful sign. How can someone who says they love liberty and fights for it, contradict himself and support fascists? I always keep Patrick Henry in my mind. Ron you are treading on thin ice with me.

Then go on and GTFO if you want!

He didn't ENDORSE them, but he lives in the world of reality; not make believe, as some do. He has told you that as a Republican, he cannot come right out and rag on other R's in Texas. He sits on a number of Committees in D.C. and to do that, there are dues. Now, you may not be willing to pay those dues, but Ron is and I thank God that he is on those committees, or we would not be so close to auditing the damn FED.

Someone owes a damn apology alright and it is Bleish. With freedom, comes responsibility and that includes her mouth.

/the end

[Cowlesy]

You are all making mountains out of molehills.

Take a step away from the computer.

Take a deep breath.

Calm it.

[LittleLightShining]

Anyone involved with party politics knows this is how it works. He did what he had to do and she said what she felt needed to be said.

ANOTHER reason why C4L's push into the GOP is a BAD idea.

[hugolp]

Then go on and GTFO if you want!

He didn't ENDORSE them, but he lives in the world of reality; not make believe, as some do. He has told you that as a Republican, he cannot come right out and rag on other R's in Texas. He sits on a number of Committees in D.C. and to do that, there are dues. Now, you may not be willing to pay those dues, but Ron is and I thank God that he is on those committees, or we would not be so close to auditing the damn FED.

Someone owes a damn apology alright and it is Bleish. With freedom, comes responsibility and that includes her mouth.

/the end

Well said. I have to say that at first when I discover this movement the fact that there were anarchist shocked me. I am now use to it, understand it, and apreciate it. I think it is good to have them onboard. I personally like it because they keep it real.

BUT the system is how it is, and it is the system Ron Paul has to cope with. If he did otherwise he would not be there and he would not be as effective as he is. I dont think nobody is thinking that Ron Paul is doing it for personal profit, but as a strategy. I wish you could see how shitty is the election system in Spain and how corrupt it is. There is no way someone like Ron Paul could have happened here. Only the parties decide who goes on the ballot. I am explaining this to remind you that the system is how it is, and you have to make your strategy based on that, like it or not. If you dont like it you choose your strategy, Ron has choosed his, and I think it has been highly succesful.

[Promontorium]

He also sat with Ralph Nader to denounce the GOP in the general election.

Ralph Nader.



You think a Republican is bad? You all should have called him a traitor then.


---------------------------->HE SUPPORTED RALPH NADER<---------------------

================>STOP BEING TOOLS OF NOISIER PEOPLE<================

[johnrocks]

As an elected Republican, he can't endorse someone over an elected Republican incumbent, what is sad is THE SYSTEM, not Ron Paul being forced to conform.

[fatjohn]

Man what a load of crap is circling in this thread...
An endorsement only is an endorsement if you do it out of free will. Did not seem like he had much say in it to me. When he gets elected president, then I don't think that he would let himself influence in who to get as VP or something. So indeed get a breath of fresh air. If you can't support someone because of something like that, you will never be able to support anyone so go ahead and try to do it yourself if you are so much better.

[LittleLightShining]

He also sat with Ralph Nader to denounce the GOP in the general election.

Ralph Nader.



You think a Republican is bad? You all should have called him a traitor then.


---------------------------->HE SUPPORTED RALPH NADER<---------------------

================>STOP BEING TOOLS OF NOISIER PEOPLE<================


Did he necessarily denounce the GOP then?

[constituent]

I'm sorry, but, what?

[james1906]

Congressman Ron Paul
Dear Fellow Texan,

As you know, America faces tremendous problems. I have dedicated my career to fight for solutions, but I need friends in Congress who will help and work with me in these critical times.

That is why I am grateful for the friendship of Congressman Lamar Smith. Lamar Smith is a thoughtful, intelligent leader who keeps his door open to me and is always willing to listen. As the ranking member of the Judiciary Committee, Rep. Smith's word carries a lot of weight on Capitol Hill and I am glad to see he fights to take principled stands on important issues like Healthcare and Cap and Trade.

Congressman Smith made a point of reading both of my recent books, The Revolution: A Manifesto and End the Fed and I enjoyed our discussion. True intellectual exchange has become all too rare in Washington and I appreciated his effort.

Lamar is also one of the true gentlemen in Congress. I value Congressman Smith's thoughtful approach and consider him a true friend. If more leaders in Washington adopted his style of governing, I know we could break down a lot of barriers.

I am proud of my friendship with Lamar Smith. I hope you will consider supporting him in his bid for re-election.

In Liberty,

Ron Paul

RP did send this mass email out a couple weeks back. I'm concerned about this blanket statement as there's plenty of bad GOP Reps in TX.

[qh4dotcom]

From 2008



Dear Alaskan Supporter:

Please let me begin by once again giving you my heartfelt thanks for all you have done to support me. The reason our campaign was so successful in your state owes entirely to the fact that activists such as you worked so hard. For that I am truly grateful.

Alaska faces a primary election for federal offices on August 26.

As you go about deciding how you will vote, I wanted to write to you regarding Congressman Don Young. Don and I have served together in Congress for many years, and I consider him a friend. Don has been an outspoken voice against environmental extremists over the years, and has strongly opposed the types of federal regulatory overreach advocated in the name of environmentalism.

I am also glad to have Don as a cosponsor of one of the most significant pieces of legislation I have introduced, the Liberty Amendment. Few members of Congress have shown the insight to understand the importance of this sweeping legislation to restrain the federal government, and even fewer have shown the courage to cosponsor this bill. Don is one of those.

I support Don's campaign for re-election, and I felt it was important for you to know these things as you consider your vote in the upcoming primary.

Once again, I appreciate all you have done for me, and for our country. Your efforts on behalf of our cause are truly remarkable.

Sincerely,

Ron Paul

[torchbearer]

opinions are like assholes- everyone has one and it usually stinks.
her opinions haven't been wiped in some time.

[CatherineBleish]

Hi guys, My name is Catherine Bleish and I am a member of Ron Paul forums and I appreciate the shit talking :)

Ron Paul stabbed me in the back as a national ROn Paul supporting delegate to the RNC. I remained silent so as to not cause dissension in the movement. Then I watched him raise money for c4l, claiming c4l had defeated the MIAC report and money being raised would help them continue such actions - yet here in Atlanta, I can't even find hard core activist who know what a fusion centers is and I am slaving away trying to raise money for gas and food to continue www.operationdefuse.com - THEN I watch him stab the TX citizens in the back by sending out a letter asking for money for a 2 time bail out incumbent - exactly EVERYTHING CONTRARY to liberty.

Yes, I think he is a traitor to the liberty movement at this time, and I am entitled to that opinion. I worked my butt off for him, sacrificed a LOT, and while I learned a lot about humanity and life and love, he is not the man I thought he was when I was knocking on doors in the fall of 2007.

I'm not wasting further time on this conversation - it is my opinion, that I posted on my personal facebook, you have seen the video decide for yourself.

If you want to get involved in something that is truly shaking up the system - www.operationdefuse.com and support some real grassroots activities.

[torchbearer]

Ron Paul stabbed me in the back.

:rolleyes:

[constituent]

Oh no!!!! Our leaders are at odds!

Who shall we follow now?

[tonesforjonesbones]

More immature, knee jerk crap from the p nut gallery on this forum. RON PAUL is holding important positions on COMMITTEES where he can make a DIFFERENCE. NOw, if he goes against the rules and endorses non incumbents, and gets kicked off the committees you shills will be happy and gloat that he stood up for principles and would also be OUT of a JOB. Which is better..that he play by the stinkin rules to make real changes or the PEANUT GALLERY gets to pat him on the back for being true to the cause? COMMON SENSE HAS LEFT THE BUILDING. GROW UP! TONES

[CatherineBleish]

Cathy flies off the handle easily. She is an anarchist afterall..


ps: never call me Cathy, please :)

Am I an anarchist? I think I'm in transition toward anarcho-capitolist, but I'm curious what makes you think I'm an anarchist?

And do I fly off the handle easily? I think I've been pretty good at maintaining composure with regards to this movement - although I am a very emotional creature, I can't think of the last time I "flew off the handle!", although I do tell it like it is.......

Anyway, I really just wanted to clarify the "Cathy" thing - its the name I went by in highschool and I prefer Catherine or Cat, thanks :)

[dannno]

He did what he had to do and she said what she felt needed to be said.



+1


I think it SUCKS that Ron Paul actually asked people to give money to that guy.. but on the other hand I really don't know how much choice he had in the matter.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Someone must have a hot line to her. lol tones

[james1906]

ps: never call me Cathy, please :)

Am I an anarchist? I think I'm in transition toward anarcho-capitolist, but I'm curious what makes you think I'm an anarchist?

And do I fly off the handle easily? I think I've been pretty good at maintaining composure with regards to this movement - although I am a very emotional creature, I can't think of the last time I "flew off the handle!", although I do tell it like it is.......

Anyway, I really just wanted to clarify the "Cathy" thing - its the name I went by in highschool and I prefer Catherine or Cat, thanks :)

http://conditionals.net/images/cathy2.jpg

[dannno]

A lot of people in this movement were attracted to Ron's campaign because we were astounded at how principled a congressperson could actually be (who we had never heard of who had been around for so long) in the face of what we learned was so incredibly dangerous.

He was a 'troops come home now', 'follow the Constitution to the 't'' meaning no federal war on drugs and openly discussed the civil liberties that we'd lost, absolutely no compromise ultimate principled politician.

G. Edward Griffin advocates in one of his freedom force videos that we seek power by any means possible, including the chameleon technique. While many of us saw this as a possibly way forward, Ron Paul remained a beacon of truth in principle, like a guiding light in the dead of night.

This is a complicated issue..and whether it Matt or Cat, people who are devoting a major part of their life to the cause of liberty I would hope would be applauded by most of us here, because most of the disagreements you guys seem to have often is related to tact rather than principle.

[angelatc]

if we let this destroy us, we might as well just kill ourselves

This is why libertarians can't ever win. They will happily kill themselves. Ron Paul wants us to take over the GOP so that he doesn't have to make deals like this with candidates he isn't really aligned with. (Taking over the GOP includes creating and maintaining a sustainable donor network - not just winning the chair.)

But they don't want to do that, either.

[ItsTime]

Another Liberty Activist who is a fool. Man they are starting to add up fast.

[angelatc]

Hi guys, My name is Catherine Bleish and I am a member of Ron Paul forums and I appreciate the shit talking :)

Ron Paul stabbed me in the back as a national ROn Paul supporting delegate to the RNC. I remained silent so as to not cause dissension in the movement. Then I watched him raise money for c4l, claiming c4l had defeated the MIAC report and money being raised would help them continue such actions - yet here in Atlanta, I can't even find hard core activist who know what a fusion centers is and I am slaving away trying to raise money for gas and food to continue www.operationdefuse.com - THEN I watch him stab the TX citizens in the back by sending out a letter asking for money for a 2 time bail out incumbent - exactly EVERYTHING CONTRARY to liberty.

Yes, I think he is a traitor to the liberty movement at this time, and I am entitled to that opinion. I worked my butt off for him, sacrificed a LOT, and while I learned a lot about humanity and life and love, he is not the man I thought he was when I was knocking on doors in the fall of 2007.

I'm not wasting further time on this conversation - it is my opinion, that I posted on my personal facebook, you have seen the video decide for yourself.

If you want to get involved in something that is truly shaking up the system - www.operationdefuse.com and support some real grassroots activities.

No offense, but it appears you're trying to hijack the Ron Paul movement for your own single issue agenda with this post.

Ron Paul wants us to take over the GOP. If we were successful in that, the fusion center issue would eventually take care of itself.

[ItsTime]

No offense, but it appears you're trying to hijack the Ron Paul movement for your own single issue agenda with this post.

Ron Paul wants us to take over the GOP. If we were successful in that, the fusion center issue would eventually take care of itself.

Common sense and a good course of action rarely shows its head with liberty activists.

[dannno]

Diversifying is the best thing our movement can do. It works in investing and I promise you it works in politics. There isn't one single strategy that we should all take, because we're all different. Some people could pretend to be neocons if they think that will work well for them and they can get elected. That doesn't mean WE have to support them. Let the neocons support them. They can even vote like neocons for all I care, because when the day comes where there is an opportunity for liberty they will take it G. Edward Griffin styles.. I guess you guys missed the point of my last post.

[qh4dotcom]

Bump

[qh4dotcom]

No offense, but it appears you're trying to hijack the Ron Paul movement for your own single issue agenda with this post.

Ron Paul wants us to take over the GOP. If we were successful in that, the fusion center issue would eventually take care of itself.

Angela, maybe we can have both agendas at the same time...she can do her stuff and Ron Paul can take over the GOP...who says that we need to choose when we can have both?

[FrankRep]

http://www.libertyrestorationproject.org/bio-catherine-bleish/

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v344/216/33/15908247/n15908247_40136301_527.jpg
Catherine Elizabeth Bleish with Barry Goldwater Jr.

Barry Goldwater Jr. endorsed John McCain (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=141058)... Traitor!

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Todd]

Yes, I think he is a traitor to the liberty movement at this time, and I am entitled to that opinion. I worked my butt off for him, sacrificed a LOT, and while I learned a lot about humanity and life and love, he is not the man I thought he was when I was knocking on doors in the fall of 2007.

If a guy like Ron's the enemy....who's a friend of liberty?

You holier than though types looking for the flawless human being make me sick
good grief.:rolleyes:

[low preference guy]

Catherine, you have no idea of what went on behind the scenes. He was threatened, and we don't know the details. So he might not have had much room to choose.

Now, what are the negative consequences of Dr. Paul's action? None. He requested support for someone, but then said that the request was because of that agreement, i.e., he clarified that it wasn't because he believed in them. His supporters are aware of what's going on and will probably not donate to the Texas incumbents.

[FrankRep]

Drama, Drama, Drama...

Either Ron Paul is your leader or not. The choice is yours.

[Epic]

do you guys seriously think that ron paul wanted to do that?

no of course not, but if he didn't, then the party wouldn't play ball with him.

it's possible that he wouldn't get to speak at CPAC or get party support in other ways if he didn't follow their lead.

Personally, I'm glad he gets to speak at CPAC every year.

[FrankRep]

do you guys seriously think that ron paul wanted to do that?

no of course not, but if he didn't, then the party wouldn't play ball with him.

it's possible that he wouldn't get to speak at CPAC or get party support in other ways if he didn't follow their lead.

Personally, I'm glad he gets to speak at CPAC every year.

Politics are a dirty game. That's life.
The founding fathers had to play the same dirty politics to get the country established.

[qh4dotcom]

Catherine, you have no idea of what went on behind the scenes. He was threatened, and we don't know the details. So he might not have had much room to choose.

Now, what are the negative consequences of Dr. Paul's action? None. He requested support for someone, but then said that the request was because of that agreement, i.e., he clarified that it wasn't because he believed in them. His supporters are aware of what's going on and will probably not donate to the Texas incumbents.

You got a point there...I take endorsements with a grain of salt...I'm not supporting anyone until I have researched them...so if Congressman Smith gets some support thanks to that Paul endorsement, it's mostly the fault of folks who didn't do their research.

[angelatc]

Angela, maybe we can have both agendas at the same time...she can do her stuff and Ron Paul can take over the GOP...who says that we need to choose when we can have both?

You're right of course, but she is directly admonishing Ron Paul for actions he specifically said were nothing more than a conciliatory action to make peace in the party.

She also said her effort wasn't garnering significant support. I feel bad about that, but sometimes it is best to cut your losses and approach your problem from a different angle.

Danno said he thought we should all be as diverse as we want, but I think that if we can't operate under one shared umbrella, then we're never going to win any political credibility. Or elections.

[CatherineBleish]

Drama, Drama, Drama...

Either Ron Paul is your leader or not. The choice is yours.


HERE in lies the problem, YOU should be the leader, not dr. paul.

Stop looking UP for leadership and start looking within. Lets be real - the dude puts party above principa l, I don't. I had an illusion, that illusion just crashed with reality, now I'm going to go along my way leading, not follwing, as I have been since I was so let down by the RNC - I wish other ROn Paulers would step up and start leading rather than following, too...

[torchbearer]

HERE in lies the problem, YOU should be the leader, not dr. paul.

Stop looking UP for leadership and start looking within. Lets be real - the dude puts party above principa l, I don't. I had an illusion, that illusion just crashed with reality, now I'm going to go along my way leading, not follwing, as I have been since I was so let down by the RNC - I wish other ROn Paulers would step up and start leading rather than following, too...

the other leaders among us are not impressed with your tact.
not everyone will lead, but those who step up have a responsibility to do so in a beneficial way.
maybe you should think more before you post.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I still think that Ron Paul is the best thing we have going. tones

[rp08orbust]

I still think that Ron Paul is the best thing we have going. tones

Not only is he "still" the best thing we have going, but he's as good as he's ever been IMO. The fact that he gives Republican incumbents the fake endorsements they want in order to keep his seniority in the House does not bother me in the slightest.

Edit: Actually, my opinion of Ron Paul hasn't just not gone down, it's gone up. Ambushed with a tough question in front of a camera, he simply told the truth. Any other politician would have brushed it off with BS.

[Captain Bryan]

Not only is he "still" the best thing we have going, but he's as good as he's ever been IMO. The fact that he gives Republican incumbents the fake endorsements they want in order to keep his seniority in the House does not bother me in the slightest.

Edit: Actually, my opinion of Ron Paul hasn't just not gone down, it's gone up. Ambushed with a tough question in front of a camera, he simply told the truth. Any other politician would have brushed it off with BS.
This.
Also, Cat, you're really cute.:D;)

[CatherineBleish]

The fact that he gives Republican incumbents the fake endorsements they want in order to keep his seniority in the House does not bother me in the slightest.


If your goal is to keep seniority in the house - then by all means, lets have the Ron Paul machine fuel MORE incumbents into the fraudulent federal government.

Nice way to maintain the status quo there, folks.

I thought we wanted LIBERTY...?

[qh4dotcom]

Catherine you are indeed entitled to your opinion and I can understand how you feel. Dr. Paul has made poor choices in endorsements in the past, this is not the 1st time something like this has happened. He endorsed pork king pro-war Alaskan Congressman Don Young and he failed to endorse Bob Conley (that's why we are stuck now for the next 5 years hearing Lindsey Graham's RP bashing trash talk). I feel really bad now that I started this thread, please forgive me...I didn't do any s*** talking about you and I just made a donation to your chip-in at www.operationdefuse.com. Thanks again for everything that you do for liberty.

[CatherineBleish]

the other leaders among us are not impressed with your tact.
not everyone will lead, but those who step up have a responsibility to do so in a beneficial way.
maybe you should think more before you post.

Thanks for the feedback, but my personal twitter and my personal facebook are just that, my personal twitter and my personal facebook. I may not have opinions that YOU agree with, but I have every right to state them and we have every right as a movement to discuss these things, an obligation in my opinion.

You may not like my tact, but I'm working my *ass* off for liberty - I have literally given every waking moment, every ounce of energy, every cent of my wealth to fighting for freedom, and I'm not stopping. While you all are debating about my twitter posts, I'll be out throwing wrenches in the gears of DHS. Hope ya'll can join.

www.operationdefuse.com

[CatherineBleish]

She also said her effort wasn't garnering significant support. I feel bad about that, but sometimes it is best to cut your losses and approach your problem from a different angle.
.

No, I said this top down slow moving inefficient c4l is siphoning resources from the real grassroots.

Do you have any idea what this project is about? It is one of the most creative and innovative projects to come out of our movement in recent time. Born out of the cc2009, actually, carried out by 2 25 years olds who are touring the country, eating by the good graces of patriots, knocking on the "man"'s door, literally, with cameras and open records requests.

Why is it that at this c4l conference NONE OF THESE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT FUSION CENTERS ARE - yet c4l raises money in the name of their fight against the MIAC?

[CatherineBleish]

Catherine you are indeed entitled to your opinion and I can understand how you feel. Dr. Paul has made poor choices in endorsements in the past, this is not the 1st time something like this has happened. He endorsed pork king pro-war Alaskan Congressman Don Young and he failed to endorse Bob Conley (that's why we are stuck now for the next 5 years hearing Lindsey Graham's RP bashing trash talk). I feel really bad now that I started this thread, please forgive me...I didn't do any s*** talking about you and I just made a donation to your chip-in at www.operationdefuse.com. Thanks again for everything that you do for liberty.

Thank you :) Every cent helps us eat, or buys us gas or an open records request.

I'm getting used to getting attacked. It sucks, but apparently that happens when you put yourself out there...

[Captain Bryan]

\

I'm getting used to getting attacked. It sucks, but apparently that happens when you put yourself out there...

Indeed it does.

[Volitzer]

How is Ron Paul a traitor after supporting Chuck Baldwin in the 2008 election ??

There are those politicians who claim to be Ron Paul-Republicans who didn't actually get an endorsement from Ron Paul.

[Chester Copperpot]

Thank you :) Every cent helps us eat, or buys us gas or an open records request.

I'm getting used to getting attacked. It sucks, but apparently that happens when you put yourself out there...

I wouldnt know what a fusion center was if I didnt hear it from Alex Jones every now and then. I think therein lies the majority of people who know and who dont know.

[Chester Copperpot]

Thank you :) Every cent helps us eat, or buys us gas or an open records request.

I'm getting used to getting attacked. It sucks, but apparently that happens when you put yourself out there...

Cat, use this as an opportunity to expand your program.. I knew nothing of you or your program before tonight.. and I come to this site every day, multiple times a day since Ive been a member.

Im sure both you and Ron are good people.. You each have some differences in how to attack tyranny and secure liberty and thats okay.. You do what you gotta do, Ill do what I gotta do, and Ron will do what he's gotta do.

[Bman]

I thought we wanted LIBERTY...?

SUre do, but attacking one of the best people we have for this cause just becasue they didn't do things the way you would have is... well I'll refrain from attacks since I do not personally know you.

Cat, I'm not sure what groups you've ever been a part of, but when you are in a group sometimes you have to do things you don't want to, or that you disagree with. It's part of the problem of being in a group. It's part of the problem we have, but it's going to take a lot of work.

Would you prefer that Ron was not in congress? This is the question you have to ask. I for one think you should be damn thankful that someone who has gone to the lengths and personal sacrifice this man has gone through to fight for our personal liberties. IT won't always be perfect, it will not always be pretty, but if you want to play the game, then at times you have to play the game. You can yell bullshit all you want, but consider this, if you take such an approach you will not be invited to play and can at best only hope to be yelling on a street corner. If you think that is productive more power to you, but hope you don't mind as I walk straight past you.

[CatherineBleish]

SUre do, but attacking one of the best people we have for this cause just becasue they didn't do things the way you would have is... well I'll refrain from attacks since I do not personally know you.

Define best... if the best we have is sucking resources from the grassroots and funneling them into a top down beuracratic slow moving image obsesses party over principal organization, then we have a major problem. I think our movement's best can be found on the streets of Phoenix, or testifying in the city halls of Austin, or humanizing with fusion center staff in Oklahoma, or in a jail cell in Keene, NH, not in the halls of any Congress.


Cat, I'm not sure what groups you've ever been a part of, but when you are in a group sometimes you have to do things you don't want to, or that you disagree with. It's part of the problem of being in a group. It's part of the problem we have, but it's going to take a lot of work.
For a brief overview of my movement involvement only: Ron Paul delegate to the RNC, managed the Ron Paul HQ in Kansas City, Communications Director for the Revolution March, founder / executive director of www.libertyrestorationproject.org, delegate to the cc2009, organizer of Midwest Liberty Fest, Volunteer Coordinator on a Congressional Campaign, co-coordinator of www.operationdefuse.com, etc.. etc.. I work with groups a lot :)


Would you prefer that Ron was not in congress? This is the question you have to ask. I for one think you should be damn thankful that someone who has gone to the lengths and personal sacrifice this man has gone through to fight for our personal liberties. IT won't always be perfect, it will not always be pretty, but if you want to play the game, then at times you have to play the game. You can yell bullshit all you want, but consider this, if you take such an approach you will not be invited to play and can at best only hope to be yelling on a street corner. If you think that is productive more power to you, but hope you don't mind as I walk straight past you.

Yes, I would prefer he was not in Congress. I think congress is irrelevant and that we should and focus on our state and city governments. He would get more done, in my opinion, inspiring others to step up than playing a single role in the belly of the beast.

[LibertyEagle]

This thread is disgusting.

Catherine, succeed or fail on your OWN merits. There is no need to trash talk Dr. Paul or anyone else who is working faithfully in this movement. ALL are needed.

[Bman]

Define best... if the best we have is sucking resources from the grassroots and funneling them into a top down beuracratic slow moving image obsesses party over principal organization, then we have a major problem. I think our movement's best can be found on the streets of Phoenix, or testifying in the city halls of Austin, or humanizing with fusion center staff in Oklahoma, or in a jail cell in Keene, NH, not in the halls of any Congress.

Free markets ftw. Plus this is a who made who argument. Do you really think that money would be there without Ron? He's done a lot to bring people into the movement. More so than any other individual I know about. You think you know where the money is best spent, well some may not agree. But labeling Ron as a traitor is hardly going to open up some wallets.



For a brief overview of my movement involvement only: Ron Paul delegate to the RNC, managed the Ron Paul HQ in Kansas City, Communications Director for the Revolution March, founder / executive director of www.libertyrestorationproject.org, delegate to the cc2009, organizer of Midwest Liberty Fest, Volunteer Coordinator on a Congressional Campaign, co-coordinator of www.operationdefuse.com, etc.. etc.. I work with groups a lot :)

Then you know sometimes you will be at odds with the group but will go along because you are not ready to cut ties. Maybe you are ready to cut ties obviously Ron is not. It hardly makes him a traitor. Just someone who understands what it will take to remain part of the group.



Yes, I would prefer he was not in Congress. I think congress is irrelevant and that we should and focus on our state and city governments. He would get more done, in my opinion, inspiring others to step up than playing a single role in the belly of the beast.

Again, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Ron. I wouldn't be helping local campaigns for ffice if it were not for Ron. He is inspiring people to step up and play a single role. You have your thoughts and now are using oppurtunity to self-promote yourself. It's a tact that you risk back firing on yourself. As seen in the post I believe you've done more harm to your reputation than good. You could have had more tact than calling Ron a traitor. Disgreeing is not the problem, providing tactless responses are.

[low preference guy]

Yes, I would prefer he was not in Congress.

Half of the liberty movement wouldn't exist if Ron Paul wasn't in Congress. No Rand Paul for Senate, no Debra for Gobernor. Neither the campaigns of Schiff, Valerie Meyers, Kokesh, Harris, or Dennis would exist.

Is that endorsement what made you turn against Dr. Paul? I think his endorsement was similar to Galileo saying that the Earth didn't move to avoid execution. Dr. Paul made it clear that he endorsed them because he made a deal. His supporters are aware of this and they won't donate money or volunteer for the other Texas incumbents.

I'd suggest you take a few days to think your decision over carefully. Maybe you're changing your mind too quickly.

[Bman]

Half of the liberty movement wouldn't exist if Ron Paul wasn't in Congress. No Rand Paul for Senate, no Debra for Gobernor. Neither the campaigns of Schiff, Valerie Meyers, Kokesh, Harris, or Dennis would exist.

I could name off about 10 more you haven't mentioned without thinking about it. So could others from different areas of the country.

[low preference guy]

I could name off about 10 more you haven't mentioned without thinking about it. So could others from different areas of the country.

I know, but I thought those were enough to make my point. Even the Freedom Watch show wouldn't exist.

[CatherineBleish]

Ron Paul definitely shaped my early activism, but I do believe, ultimately, I was on the path toward the quest of freedom despite Ron Paul, and would have found it with or without him.

Look, I didn't create this post, it was a PERSONAL TWITTER on my PERSONAL FACEBOOK, if folks don't want to hear my opinion there, they can just unfriend me. I didn't choose to post this here, someone else did, something they have apologized for and I appreciate greatly.

Ron Paul didn't bring all these people into the movement, we did. We were the ones out on the streets handing out fliers, we were the ones phone banking, we were the ones making amazing moves at county and state conventions, we were the ones raising those dollars, we did all of that, not Dr. Paul.

The Ron Paul movement has changed my life, in positive ways, yes, but only because it has broke me so many times that I have become stronger and more wise.

Party over Principal is the move of a traitor to true fundamental liberty. Maybe I'm must not as republican, or *conservative* as I thought when I first woke up. Maybe I want something more. Maybe I want true freedom.

Doesn't mean all the sudden Catherine Bleish should be a topic of discussion. I'd really rather be teaching you all about fusion centers and how to fight them....

[CatherineBleish]

Half of the liberty movement wouldn't exist if Ron Paul wasn't in Congress. No Rand Paul for Senate, no Debra for Gobernor. Neither the campaigns of Schiff, Valerie Meyers, Kokesh, Harris, or Dennis would exist.

Is that endorsement what made you turn against Dr. Paul? I think his endorsement was similar to Galileo saying that the Earth didn't move to avoid execution. Dr. Paul made it clear that he endorsed them because he made a deal. His supporters are aware of this and they won't donate money or volunteer for the other Texas incumbents.

I'd suggest you take a few days to think your decision over carefully. Maybe you're changing your mind too quickly.

Summer of 2008 the ROn Paul camp and C4L turned on the delegates to the RNC. After suggesting we go to the rally for the republic instead of the RNC we began to self organize. I will make the story short but say, c4l worked against the self organizing RNC delegates very quickly, they devastated many of the finest patriots I have ever met, they turned on us, an email was even sent out by a current c4l director from a c4l email calling me a democrat traitor who worked for the obama campaign.

Then when the MIAC report was released in MO I spent every waking moment fighting that sucker, after it was retracted c4l sent out a mailer, one came to my house, asking for money in celebration of their big defeat of the MIAC report. None of the grassroots patriots were recognized and c4l took credit for something they did not do, raising funds for their beauracracy on the backs of hard working patriots across the nation (Major props to Gary Franchi with RTR, Rob Hillman with MO RLC, the MO Lib Party, Chuck Baldwin, Ron Paul Forums and my LRPies in MO for all their hard work on the MIAC, I love yall!)

So this has been a long time coming for me. I was silent at the urging of many activists in the movement for 1.5 years and now I'm done. It is time for the truth to ring free.

We are our own leaders, stop looking up to dr. paul, look within.

[CatherineBleish]

This thread is disgusting.

Catherine, succeed or fail on your OWN merits. There is no need to trash talk Dr. Paul or anyone else who is working faithfully in this movement. ALL are needed.


OK I guess I won't hold Dr. Paul to the same standards I hold other politicians to...

Bushbots suck as much as Obamabots suck as much as Paulbots - we should question everyone and everything at all times. Elective officials are POLITICIANS with a lot of pressure, no one is perfect and we must QUESTION EVERYTHING (that is literally tattooed on my arm, p.s.).

As for my merits - www.donttreadoncat.com www.libertyrestorationproject.org www.operationdefuse.com

[LibertyEagle]

Party over Principal is the move of a traitor to true fundamental liberty.
That is the second time you have made that claim against Dr. Paul. He does not put party over principal and he most certainly is not a traitor! :mad: Catherine, if you're going to continue in this vein, then GTFO!


Doesn't mean all the sudden Catherine Bleish should be a topic of discussion. I'd really rather be teaching you all about fusion centers and how to fight them....
I wouldn't listen to you about much of anything after these recent antics of yours.

Like I said before, succeed or fail by your OWN merits. And oh, good luck on your effort to extract more money from the liberty movement for you to live on.

[Bman]

Doesn't mean all the sudden Catherine Bleish should be a topic of discussion. I'd really rather be teaching you all about fusion centers and how to fight them....

You did it to yourself. Calling one of the best voices (bets voices - someone who promotes a freedom agenda, and has a large influence and following) of the freedom movement a traitor for the reason you called them a traitor is ridiculous. You've put yourself into a public light. If you don't want yourself to discussed for making such outlandish remarks you should avoid them. I can understand the disappointment, but as someone who is part of so many groups, you'd think you'd understand the decision. It's how it works. Ron isn't going to change that. Traitor? Really? You know better than that and your being called on it. Either admit it was a knee jerk reaction to the situation, or continue down the river without a paddle. If you really think Ron is a traitor because he's being a politician, when he is a politician then you need to reevaluate your definition of a politician. If you think you can get into politics and not get dirty from time to time you are being naive. I think we all know who Ron is to a digree, and traitor is hardly an adjective to be used. You were to harsh. You may want to invest in message control if you want to continue in the public eye and not get criticized by your own. We know what you mean, but the language was out of line.

[low preference guy]

I see. So it's not just about the fake endorsements. Now it makes more sense.

From my POV, Ron Paul is a very smart and well intentioned guy, but he is not omnipotent. Because he writes books, travels a lot to talk, argues with nasty TV or radio hosts, and is getting old, he has to delegate a lot of things. Unfortunately C4L does a lot of things wrong, but I truly believe that also overseeing these aspects is beyond the power of Paul. So I still support him.

Nevertheless, I'm glad you are still working for liberty, even if you do not support Ron Paul anymore. Please just don't vote for his opponent if you are in a position to do it. About C4L, I appreciate that you point out stupid things they do.

[CatherineBleish]

You did it to yourself. Calling one of the best voices (bets voices - someone who promotes a freedom agenda, and has a large influence and following) of the freedom movement a traitor for the reason you called them a traitor is ridiculous. You've put yourself into a public light. If you don't want yourself to discussed for making such outlandish remarks you should avoid them. I can understand the disappointment, but as someone who is part of so many groups, you'd think you'd understand the decision. It's how it works. Ron isn't going to change that. Traitor? Really? You know better than that and your being called on it. Either admit it was a knee jerk reaction to the situation, or continue down the river without a paddle. If you really think Ron is a traitor because he's being a politician, when he is a politician then you need to reevaluate your definition of a politician. If you think you can get into politics and not get dirty from time to time you are being naive. I think we all know who Ron is to a digree, and traitor is hardly an adjective to be used. You were to harsh. You may want to invest in message control if you want to continue in the public eye and not get criticized by your own. We know what you mean, but the language was out of line.

trai·tor (trtr)
n.
One who betrays one's country, a cause, or a trust, especially one who commits treason.



Out of line or hard to stomach that it just might be true?

[Bman]

then GTFO!


LE, please. As a mod keep above the fray. Cat has a right to speak her mind. We can work out an understanding without trying to chasing people away.

It's quite obvious Cat has done a bunch. Despite the lack of thought given to the current comments that are being debated, I think we can work this out by being civil.

[Bman]

Out of line or hard to stomach that it just might be true?

LOL. Ok who was betrayed and exactly how were they betrayed?

Maybe you had the wrong impression of things. Ron's often supported party incumbents. It's part of the game he has played in politics. When has he said he'd do differently that has made him betray you? Or have you betrayed yourself for thinking something that just isn't true?

I can stomach it. It's just not the picture you are painting, and if you don't know it you should. If you do than why are you doing this. There are much better approaches. Your not sticking to your guns, you're letting your own pride get in the way. I'd suggest taking a step back you need to reevaluate because my impression is that some things are fuzzy and not clear.

[LibertyEagle]

LE, please. As a mod keep above the fray. Cat has a right to speak her mind.
She spoke it. But, to keep on repeating the lies is out of line.

I haven't banned her; nor do I plan to. But, as I said, IF SHE PLANS ON CONTINUING IN THIS VEIN, then there is going to be a problem.


We can work out an understanding without trying to chasing people away.
Have at it. I draw the line at her calling Ron Paul a traitor. :mad:


It's quite obvious Cat has done a bunch. Despite the lack of thought given to the current comments that are being debated, I think we can work this out by being civil.

"Doing a bunch" doesn't mean anything. It is WHAT one is doing. Right now, she is repeatedly cutting down others in apparent hopes to divert money to her own coffers.

[CatherineBleish]

LE, please. As a mod keep above the fray. Cat has a right to speak her mind. We can work out an understanding without trying to chasing people away.

It's quite obvious Cat has done a bunch. Despite the lack of thought given to the current comments that are being debated, I think we can work this out by being civil.


Thank you :) I didn't choose to have this forum here so it would be awfully silly for someone to chase me out haha I'm here to explain, communicate, harmonize, and grow with ya'll.

[Bman]

Thank you :) I didn't choose to have this forum here so it would be awfully silly for someone to chase me out haha I'm here to explain, communicate, harmonize, and grow with ya'll.

I know Cat. I can be quite an asshole, but I've refrained with you because I don't think it is your intent. I just think you are mistaken in your approah and also in the label you've decided to promote.

[CatherineBleish]

She spoke it. But, to keep on repeating the lies is out of line.

I haven't banned her; nor do I plan to. But, as I said, IF SHE PLANS ON CONTINUING IN THIS VEIN, then there is going to be a problem.


Have at it.



"Doing a bunch" doesn't mean anything. It is WHAT one is doing. Right now, she is repeatedly cutting down others in apparent hopes to divert money to her own coffers.

I have told no lies, only given my OPINION based on FACT.

re: diverting money - WOAH - you obviously don't know me. I was laid off over a year ago and have been volunteering full time to this movement ever since. I have lowered my living expenses to $350 a month and have been living off of a 401k I wisely (at the advice of my father) had created at the age of 18. I have paid my living expenses upfront through March of this year, at that point I will have to reassess how I live. But trust me, I don't spend money, I just don't, and I run my organization like that as well. We get a lot done with verrrry little. Actually, asking for money is one of the biggest struggles I have had, I hate doing it and Im' not good at it, we raise most of our money when we do something the grassroots like and it comes in organically (MIAC fight being one).

I *DO* want to see more resources going toward organizations that are really moving and shaking, such as TAG, We Are Change, LRP, Freedoms Phoenix, OK-Safe, RTR and others, yes, but that is only because I see such great results from those orgs I think they ought to be uplifted. I have not seen the results of the million dollar c4l that I have from small local groups such as the ones I listed above.

[CatherineBleish]

I know Cat. I can be quite an asshole, but I've refrained with you because I don't think it is your intent. I just think you are mistaken in your approah and also in the label you've decided to promote.

It was one tweet out of 80 million, I didn't choose to promote any "label", it was just a comment I made based on how I felt. Betrayed.

[Bman]

It was one tweet out of 80 million, I didn't choose to promote any "label", it was just a comment I made based on how I felt. Betrayed.

And saying I feel betrayed by this decision would have been much better than calling Ron a traitor. Do you not see how silly that sounds as an overall statement?

You did choose. You may just not have realized that when you get involved everything you say has implications. Saying you disagree is a whole bunch different than throwing someone under the bus, which is what you did, even if it was unintentional.

It's politics. Do you really believe a politician can avoid getting even a little dirty? Why do you think the true Ancap's refuse to run for office? You will have to make sacrifices. Let's thank god (or whatever mythical idea you want to insert) that it doesn't show up when Ron votes.

He really didn't betray anyone, because to betray he would have to had inferred differently and the truth is that Ron has always been strong at supporting an incumbent. It's the one concession he's made to stay in office. I'm not about to beat him up over it, it's far from productive.

[qh4dotcom]

That is the second time you have made that claim against Dr. Paul. He does not put party over principal and he most certainly is not a traitor! :mad: Catherine, if you're going to continue in this vein, then GTFO!
.
LibertyEagle please don't ban her from the forum. It's my fault for having started this thread.

[CatherineBleish]

And saying I feel betrayed by this decision would have been much better than calling Ron a traitor. Do you not see how silly that sounds as an overall statement?

You did choose. You may just not have realized that when you get involved everything you say has implications. Saying you disagree is a whole bunch different than throwing someone under the bus, which is what you did, even if it was unintentional.

It's politics. Do you really believe a politician can avoid getting even a little dirty? Why do you think the true Ancap's refuse to run for office? You will have to make sacrifices. Let's thank god (or whatever mythical idea you want to insert) that it doesn't show up when Ron votes.

He really didn't betray anyone, because to betray he would have to had inferred differently and the truth is that Ron has always been strong at supporting an incumbent. It's the one concession he's made to stay in office. I'm not about to beat him up over it, it's far from productive.

I wear my heart on my sleeve, I would have said nothing different as it would not have facilitated this conversation.

I speak from my heart, always, I can apologize if what I said offends you as that is not my intent, but those words came from my heart, my broken heart, and I'm not taking it back.

[Bman]

I wear my heart on my sleeve, I would have said nothing different as it would not have facilitated this conversation.

I speak from my heart, always, I can apologize if what I said offends you as that is not my intent, but those words came from my heart, my broken heart, and I'm not taking it back.

Then tell me what Ron promised that makes him a traitor.

[CatherineBleish]

Then tell me what Ron promised that makes him a traitor.

Where do I START with the campaign. Maybe not all his personal mistakes, but his silence and allowance of it are enough for me.

I'll start with the fact he said he would stay in the race as long as there was support. When he dropped out his support was GROWING - confused, the delegates still scrambled for a solution and at that point, Dr. Paul, the champion of getting involved with the political party system, abandoned all of the delegates who worked so hard to support him.

He betrayed his cause then and he did it again in TX.

[Bman]

He betrayed his cause then and he did it again in TX.

That's a bit of a stretch. Me thinks you are being a bit unrealistic.

[CatherineBleish]

Maybe its because it hasn't yet happened to you.

Fusion centers became real to me when I was profiled by one.

The abuse of the Paul Machine became real to me when I was stabbed in the back @ the RNC.

Texans likely feel the same. Alaskans, too.

[Bman]

Maybe its because it hasn't yet happened to you.

Fusion centers became real to me when I was profiled by one.

My father use to call the white house on a daily basis asking for the president. I guarentee you they have a file on me, I guarentee they have a file on everyone. I don't have to ask, I don't need to be told why certain things happen. We're all surrounded. Just because someone is not wearing a uniform when they appoach you, it doesn't take much to realize why they were sent.


The abuse of the Paul Machine became real to me when I was stabbed in the back @ the RNC.

You thought it would go down differently? Welcome to politics. You've got to stand with your people and keep them from wondering otherwise you will get stabbed in the back. This was your fault not anyone elses. You don't realize it, but stick around it will all make sense at some point.


Texans likely feel the same. Alaskans, too.

You were doing better when you were speaking for yourself.

[rp08orbust]

If your goal is to keep seniority in the house - then by all means, lets have the Ron Paul machine fuel MORE incumbents into the fraudulent federal government.

Then why wasn't Ron Paul a traitor to liberty when he ran for Congress in the fraudulent federal government for the first time in 1974? The lines you draw around people for treachery seem rather arbitrary.

[LittleLightShining]

HERE in lies the problem, YOU should be the leader, not dr. paul.
Truth. It's a lot to bear, being a leader. I am not saying Ron Paul is a traitor, I'm just saying I agree with Catherine on this.


the other leaders among us are not impressed with your tact.
not everyone will lead, but those who step up have a responsibility to do so in a beneficial way.
maybe you should think more before you post.I am so tired of your criticism and snarkiness. If you're such a great leader step forward and show us how it's done.


No, I said this top down slow moving inefficient c4l is siphoning resources from the real grassroots.
...

Why is it that at this c4l conference NONE OF THESE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT FUSION CENTERS ARE - yet c4l raises money in the name of their fight against the MIAC?


Summer of 2008 the ROn Paul camp and C4L turned on the delegates to the RNC. After suggesting we go to the rally for the republic instead of the RNC we began to self organize. I will make the story short but say, c4l worked against the self organizing RNC delegates very quickly, they devastated many of the finest patriots I have ever met, they turned on us, an email was even sent out by a current c4l director from a c4l email calling me a democrat traitor who worked for the obama campaign.

Then when the MIAC report was released in MO I spent every waking moment fighting that sucker, after it was retracted c4l sent out a mailer, one came to my house, asking for money in celebration of their big defeat of the MIAC report. None of the grassroots patriots were recognized and c4l took credit for something they did not do, raising funds for their beauracracy on the backs of hard working patriots across the nation (Major props to Gary Franchi with RTR, Rob Hillman with MO RLC, the MO Lib Party, Chuck Baldwin, Ron Paul Forums and my LRPies in MO for all their hard work on the MIAC, I love yall!)

So this has been a long time coming for me. I was silent at the urging of many activists in the movement for 1.5 years and now I'm done. It is time for the truth to ring free.

We are our own leaders, stop looking up to dr. paul, look within.I am hearing you loud and clear.


That is the second time you have made that claim against Dr. Paul. He does not put party over principal and he most certainly is not a traitor! :mad: Catherine, if you're going to continue in this vein, then GTFO!


I wouldn't listen to you about much of anything after these recent antics of yours.

Like I said before, succeed or fail by your OWN merits. And oh, good luck on your effort to extract more money from the liberty movement for you to live on.


LE, please. As a mod keep above the fray. Cat has a right to speak her mind. We can work out an understanding without trying to chasing people away.

It's quite obvious Cat has done a bunch. Despite the lack of thought given to the current comments that are being debated, I think we can work this out by being civil.LE doesn't like to hear dissent about anything. It's pretty pathetic that she's a mod and has to be reminded to "keep above the fray".


She spoke it. But, to keep on repeating the lies is out of line.

I haven't banned her; nor do I plan to. But, as I said, IF SHE PLANS ON CONTINUING IN THIS VEIN, then there is going to be a problem.

Have at it. I draw the line at her calling Ron Paul a traitor. :mad:

"Doing a bunch" doesn't mean anything. It is WHAT one is doing. Right now, she is repeatedly cutting down others in apparent hopes to divert money to her own coffers.What the fack are YOU doing, LE. Damnit I am so sick of you claiming the moral high ground when there are people busting their asses out there every day. You are something else. Something else entirely.


I have told no lies, only given my OPINION based on FACT.

re: diverting money - WOAH - you obviously don't know me. I was laid off over a year ago and have been volunteering full time to this movement ever since. I have lowered my living expenses to $350 a month and have been living off of a 401k I wisely (at the advice of my father) had created at the age of 18. I have paid my living expenses upfront through March of this year, at that point I will have to reassess how I live. But trust me, I don't spend money, I just don't, and I run my organization like that as well. We get a lot done with verrrry little. Actually, asking for money is one of the biggest struggles I have had, I hate doing it and Im' not good at it, we raise most of our money when we do something the grassroots like and it comes in organically (MIAC fight being one).

I *DO* want to see more resources going toward organizations that are really moving and shaking, such as TAG, We Are Change, LRP, Freedoms Phoenix, OK-Safe, RTR and others, yes, but that is only because I see such great results from those orgs I think they ought to be uplifted. I have not seen the results of the million dollar c4l that I have from small local groups such as the ones I listed above.Amen to that. All the good that C4L does is done locally.


I wear my heart on my sleeve, I would have said nothing different as it would not have facilitated this conversation.

I speak from my heart, always, I can apologize if what I said offends you as that is not my intent, but those words came from my heart, my broken heart, and I'm not taking it back.This is why I appreciate you so much. Make sure to look me up if and when VT is on your fusion center list. I know where it is. Our VT C4L group has had many a long conversation about the fc's. Would love to have you share what you know with us. Between Stewart (cc2009 delegate, I think you know him) and I, we can set you up.

[rp08orbust]

Party over Principal is the move of a traitor

Why do you keep repeating this phrase, "party over principle", when it is so obvious that he has not made these arrangements for the sake of the party?

HOW do Ron Paul's actions advance the Republican Party at the expense of liberty?

WHAT principle has Ron Paul violated?

If you really want to stone him for something, stone him for the sin of lying to the Republicans he's pretending to endorse.

What's ironic here is that the video that sparked this discussion (and I assume Catherine's Facebook post) is a huge risk to Ron Paul's standing within the party. The secret that Ron Paul does not actually support the candidates he endorses is out to the general public who couldn't deduce it before. I'd be surprised if this video does not appear in an attack ad against him from the very party you're accusing him of advancing.

Edit: And please, people, can we learn the difference between principals and principles, at least just for this thread?

[constituent]

If your goal is to keep seniority in the house - then by all means, lets have the Ron Paul machine fuel MORE incumbents into the fraudulent federal government.

Nice way to maintain the status quo there, folks.

I thought we wanted LIBERTY...?

you'll figure it out. good luck to you!

[constituent]

Free markets ftw. Plus this is a who made who argument. Do you really think that money would be there without Ron? He's done a lot to bring people into the movement. More so than any other individual I know about. You think you know where the money is best spent, well some may not agree. But labeling Ron as a traitor is hardly going to open up some wallets.

Then you know sometimes you will be at odds with the group but will go along because you are not ready to cut ties. Maybe you are ready to cut ties obviously Ron is not. It hardly makes him a traitor. Just someone who understands what it will take to remain part of the group.


Again, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Ron. I wouldn't be helping local campaigns for ffice if it were not for Ron. He is inspiring people to step up and play a single role. You have your thoughts and now are using oppurtunity to self-promote yourself. It's a tact that you risk back firing on yourself. As seen in the post I believe you've done more harm to your reputation than good. You could have had more tact than calling Ron a traitor. Disgreeing is not the problem, providing tactless responses are.

Wow, that's probably the best disagreement post in rpf history. that s* deserves an award.

[constituent]

Calling one of the best voices (bets voices - someone who promotes a freedom agenda, and has a large influence and following) of the freedom movement a traitor for the reason you called them a traitor is ridiculous.

It's called generating traffic... try not to read too much into it.

[FrankRep]

Thank you Ron Paul for doing what you have to do to Continue to fight the Federal Reserve and Big Government.

Forgive these politically ignorant people.

[constituent]

Thank you Ron Paul for doing what you have to do to Continue to fight the Federal Reserve and Big Government.

Forgive these politically ignorant people.

dude, that was kinda weird. No offense, but srsly.

[Cowlesy]

Robert Frost (1874–1963). Mountain Interval. 1920.

1. The Road Not Taken


TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth; 5

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same, 10

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back. 15

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference. 20



:\

[LibertyEagle]

What the fack are YOU doing, LE. Damnit I am so sick of you claiming the moral high ground when there are people busting their asses out there every day. You are something else. Something else entirely.

As I said before, LLS, whether one busts their ass or not, really doesn't have a whole lot to do with it, does it? It's whether what the person does is constructive towards getting this country turned around.

I sat here while Catherine called Dr. Paul a traitor once; the second time was way over the line.

The fact that you have no problem with it, is enlightening, indeed.

[torchbearer]

I am so tired of your criticism and snarkiness. If you're such a great leader step forward and show us how it's done.

we do well here in louisiana. as you can see, part of my activities here do not include calling Ron a traitor and creating echoes like this thread.
Though i do see a similiarity between you and the person you are sticking up for-
and you have the same value. nothing beneficial.

[CatherineBleish]

You were doing better when you were speaking for yourself.
I'm sitting next to and talking with several Texans, and have had 2 Alaskans contact me upset about what happened out there just based on my facebook comment.

[ItsTime]

I'm sitting next to and talking with several Texans, and have had 2 Alaskans contact me upset about what happened out there just based on my facebook comment.

Boo Hoo when did liberty activists become such panzies and whine asses? No wonder until recently this movement was laughed at.

[angelatc]

I'm sitting next to and talking with several Texans, and have had 2 Alaskans contact me upset about what happened out there just based on my facebook comment.

Well, mission accomplished then! Congratulations on fracturing the movement.

[CatherineBleish]

Why do you keep repeating this phrase, "party over principle", when it is so obvious that he has not made these arrangements for the sake of the party?

Edit: And please, people, can we learn the difference between principals and principles, at least just for this thread?


I repeat it because he is chosing to support the party incumbents instead of principled candidates that = party > principle....


Also, I am a very poor speller, I have been my entire life, I have taken through differential equations in mathematics, but cannot spell. I'm doing the best I can and you condescension and negativity wearing me thin.

Can we start talking about fusion centers now? Maybe actual strategies we can take the change things? Why the hell has Catherine Bleish become the topic of discussion here - I'm not the one sending out mailer asking folks to support a bail out voting patriot act supporting tyrant who helped create this problem......

[ItsTime]

Well, mission accomplished then! Congratulations on fracturing the movement.

We have come all this way for little issues like this to fracture us. Lovely isnt it? I guess some people didnt take Ron Paul seriously when he said WE NEED TO WORK WITHING THE GOP. Is it Ron Pauls fault Texans didnt get their acts together and replace their neo-con Republicans with Liberty Republicans? That shows failure for the leaders of the liberty movement in Texas. And after reading this thread, I realized why some of them failed.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I repeat it because he is chosing to support the party incumbents instead of principled candidates that = party > principle....


Also, I am a very poor speller, I have been my entire life, I have taken through differential equations in mathematics, but cannot spell. I'm doing the best I can and you condescension and negativity wearing me thin.

Can we start talking about fusion centers now? Maybe actual strategies we can take the change things? Why the hell has Catherine Bleish become the topic of discussion here - I'm not the one sending out mailer asking folks to support a bail out voting patriot act supporting tyrant who helped create this problem......

I have your back Catherine. I get into this debate here all the time, so I know what its like. The pragmatists vs the highly principled. We are not fracturing the movement by being principled, the wafflers are. That's my take on that.

Keep up the good work. Besides, when I see the minarchists start actually living their words like us anarchists, then maybe I'll be a little more impressed. I don't see any minarchists even attempting anything like the Keeniacs.

[klamath]

CatherineBleish is the traitor not RP.

[torchbearer]

I have your back Catherine. I get into this debate here all the time, so I know what its like. The pragmatists vs the highly principled. We are not fracturing the movement by being principled, the wafflers are. That's my take on that.

Keep up the good work. Besides, when I see the minarchists start actually living their words like us anarchists, then maybe I'll be a little more impressed. I don't see any minarchists even attempting anything like the Keeniacs.

how small you want to make your lil' club?

[CatherineBleish]

I have your back Catherine. I get into this debate here all the time, so I know what its like. The pragmatists vs the highly principled. We are not fracturing the movement by being principled, the wafflers are. That's my take on that.

Keep up the good work. Besides, when I see the minarchists start actually living their words like us anarchists, then maybe I'll be a little more impressed. I don't see any minarchists even attempting anything like the Keeniacs.

Glad to have some support lol - I'm literally out in the trenches fighting the man and people would rather talk about my opinion of Dr. Paul than look into who I am or what I am doing and how they can get out on the streets and help. So silly.

And if people think this is fracturing - then we were never really united. We should be rallying around FREEDOM not a man!

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

how small you want to make your lil' club?

If it means my "club" is small because we won't support bailout, police state, fascists like Lamar Smith, then so be it. You can take Lamar Smith and shove it. Now we are out there supporting Lamar Smith and Scott Brown? It's like we are back to 2006.

[FrankRep]

Can we start talking about fusion centers now? Maybe actual strategies we can take the change things? Why the hell has Catherine Bleish become the topic of discussion here - I'm not the one sending out mailer asking folks to support a bail out voting patriot act supporting tyrant who helped create this problem......
Some articles about Fusion Centers.


My Trip to a DHS Fusion Center...and How I Lived to Talk About It
http://www.jbs.org/jbs-news-feed/4736

Profiling and Criminalizing Political Dissent
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/911

Do You Fit the Terrorist Profile?
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/934

New DHS Domestic Terrorism Report Targets Millions of Americans
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/1006

Homeland Security: Everyone's a Threat
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/1053

More Extremism from Obama's DHS
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/1091

Fusion Centers and Freedom
http://www.jbs.org/us-constitution-blog/4685

What Will DHS "Fusion Centers" Mean for Local Police?
http://www.jbs.org/jbs-news-feed/380-what-will-dhs-qfusion-centersq-mean-for-local-police

Missouri Information Analysis Center report demonstrates need for local control of police departments
http://www.jbs.org/press-room/4648

[Cowlesy]

Who needs enemies when we have each other

[angelatc]

how small you want to make your lil' club?

I just wish they'd find a different clubhouse already.

[ItsTime]

We have a chance of a life time to spring the liberty movement into seats all over the country and we are going to bicker about a few seats we need to give up in order to do that. Nothings perfect and nothing changes over night.

[angelatc]

Can we start talking about fusion centers now? .

You can talk about whatever you want. I want to talk about how to win elections and finding candidates who can actually do that.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

We have a chance of a life time to spring the liberty movement into seats all over the country and we are going to bicker about a few seats we need to give up in order to do that. Nothings perfect and nothing changes over night.

First off, we don't need to support Neo's in order to win liberty seats. I reject this assertion on its face.

[ItsTime]

You can talk about whatever you want. I want to talk about how to win elections and finding candidates who can actually do that.

Amen to that.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

You can talk about whatever you want. I want to talk about how to win elections and finding candidates who can actually do that.

I hear Lamar Smith and Scott Brown are doing well. Seems like candidates up your alley.

[torchbearer]

If it means my "club" is small because we won't support bailout, police state, fascists like Lamar Smith, then so be it. You can take Lamar Smith and shove it. Now we are out there supporting Lamar Smith and Scott Brown? It's like we are back to 2006.

your club will not change this country- the more people you exclude the smaller your lil' club.
your lil' dream world will never happen. you have to work in the real world. obamabots don't educate themselves.
Ron has brought more people to this idea of liberty than you or I could ever could-
and you disrespect this man? you have no honor.

[angelatc]

We have a chance of a life time to spring the liberty movement into seats all over the country and we are going to bicker about a few seats we need to give up in order to do that. Nothings perfect and nothing changes over night.

This is why a movement needs leaders. A good leader sets a goal and is able to use human capital to achieve them. A good leader pulls a project together by energizing and uniting people.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

your club will not change this country- the more people you exclude the smaller your lil' club.
your lil' dream world will never happen. you have to work in the real world. obamabots don't educate themselves.
Ron has brought more people to this idea of liberty than you or I could ever do-
and you disrespect this man? you have no honor.

I follow an idea, a set of principles, not a person. If that person deviates from those set of principles, then I will call them out on it. If it is egregious enough I will not support them any further. I still support Ron, but he is treading on thin ice with me. I can see how even more principled people than myself can detach themselves from those who violate those principles. And yes, supporting Lamar Smith and this Adam Hueksgall character is a pretty big principle deviation.

[torchbearer]

I follow an idea, a set of principles, not a person. If that person deviates from those set of principles, then I will call them out on it. If it is egregious enough I will not support them any further. I still support Ron, but he is treading on thin ice with me. I can see how even more principled people than myself can detach themselves from those who violate those principles. And yes, supporting Lamar Smith and this Adam Hueksgall character is a pretty big principle deviation.

if you have never failed in your principles, in the entirety of your life- you are a rare man.
if you reject all those who ever stepped out of principle- you club will total one.
good luck achieving anything politically all by yourself.

[klamath]

Glad to have some support lol - I'm literally out in the trenches fighting the man and people would rather talk about my opinion of Dr. Paul than look into who I am or what I am doing and how they can get out on the streets and help. So silly.

And if people think this is fracturing - then we were never really united. We should be rallying around FREEDOM not a man!

RP has been in the trenches a hell of lot longer than you and you are calling him a traitor? Now you are whining that this thread has become about YOU and not reserved exclusively to slam RP? Get real:rolleyes:

[ItsTime]

I follow an idea, a set of principles, not a person. If that person deviates from those set of principles, then I will call them out on it. If it is egregious enough I will not support them any further. I still support Ron, but he is treading on thin ice with me. I can see how even more principled people than myself can detach themselves from those who violate those principles. And yes, supporting Lamar Smith and this Adam Hueksgall character is a pretty big principle deviation.

Youre talking about all these people running for office that are not in your state. Who do you have running IN YOUR STATE? And maybe you should focus more on that then worrying about what other states are doing. If we all did that all of this would become a non-issue.

[LittleLightShining]

As I said before, LLS, whether one busts their ass or not, really doesn't have a whole lot to do with it, does it? It's whether what the person does is constructive towards getting this country turned around.

I sat here while Catherine called Dr. Paul a traitor once; the second time was way over the line.

The fact that you have no problem with it, is enlightening, indeed.Actually, I do have a problem with this whole thread. Catherine's entitled to her opinion. I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater because she made her feelings known. I already chimed in and said that I understand why he did what he did. I don't consider him a traitor, it's how the game has to be played when you're involved with party politics. That said, I think Catherine's doing a hell of a lot more than you are to turn this country around.


we do well here in louisiana. as you can see, part of my activities here do not include calling Ron a traitor and creating echoes like this thread.
Though i do see a similiarity between you and the person you are sticking up for-
and you have the same value. nothing beneficial.Fuck you.

[constituent]

Fair Warning:

Everyone is being retarded.

[MsDoodahs]

ENOUGH.

Closing this thread.