Something I wrote on Haiti in July--more relevant than ever...

[Chomsky]

I remember this past summer, I had talked with my brother who had just returned from a mission trip to Haiti. He told me of the kids that go to school just so they can get the 3 meals a week to barely survive. I sat down to write something about the country that seemed so far away in their experience but I knew they were not that far away geographically and it just really hurt and confused me.

Anyway I wrote a sort of prose poem that can be found here:

http://www.politicallore.com/writers/shaun-booth/haiti-cries-for-the-universe/998

Its not the kind of thing that I usually post here or anywhere, and I might even take some crap for posting it here, but just in case somebody might get something out of it there it is. Also a great and relevant song by one of my favorites Arcade Fire.

[Dunedain]

Haitians are starving because there are too many Haitians in relation to the amount of food they can grow. It's that simple.

Feeding Haitians that cannot obtain their own food creates more Haitians that will starve (until we feed them). This simple logic is unobtainable from our mass media. If I fed every single cat that came to my front door there would be 10,000 cats to feed after 20 years and my own family would go hungry. I could give my entire life-savings away to homeless people and their would still be millions of homeless. We can't help people who (after 200 years) haven't developed the ability to help themselves.

The best we can do is leave them be.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Haitians are starving because there are too many Haitians in relation to the amount of food they can grow. Feeding Haitians that cannot obtain their own food creates more Haitians that will starve (until we feed them). This simple logic is unobtainable from our mass media. If I fed every single cat that came to my front door there would be 10,000 cats to feed after 20 years and my own family would go hungry.

Haiti has the population of Finland and Norway combined.

[dannno]

We can't help people who (after 200 years) haven't developed the ability to help themselves.



It is incredible after all the threads that have described the terrible interventions into their country over the last several centuries you are still this ignorant.

You're CORRECT that the best thing we can do is leave them be, but what you fail to comprehend is that WE HAVEN'T FUCKING TRIED THAT YET. They have a central bank that has been straddled with debt since their supposed "revolution", and the original debt was worth $21 billion in today's dollars.. The banks have been stealing from them for centuries. They have been enslaved this whole time, and all you can do is lecture them about how they can't make it themselves :confused:

[Dunedain]

It is incredible after all the threads that have described the terrible interventions into their country over the last several centuries you are still this ignorant.

You're CORRECT that the best thing we can do is leave them be, but what you fail to comprehend is that WE HAVEN'T FUCKING TRIED THAT YET. They have a central bank that has been straddled with debt since their supposed "revolution", and the original debt was worth $21 billion in today's dollars.. The banks have been stealing from them for centuries. They have been enslaved this whole time, and all you can do is lecture them about how they can't make it themselves :confused:

Banks have been stealing from all countries for centuries. How is the problem unique to Haiti? You are simply making excuses for them like the media for having a failed civilization.

[Oyate]

Haitians are starving because there are too many Haitians in relation to the amount of food they can grow. It's that simple.

Complete ignorance. 30 years ago Haiti was self-sufficient in food production. The USA and it's corporate partners brutalized successive regimes (ala full military intervention) and forced to eliminate their protective tarrifs and import cheap US grain. Destroyed local agriculture but what a boon for USA fruit and sugar companies! Now they import 80% of their food. And with the help of a series of brutal USA supported dictatorships, Haiti is now a carefully scripted blood bath.

Ah but soon maybe people will be saying there's too many Americans in relation to the amount of food we grow. Because Americans don't really grow ANY food anymore. It's all big agribusiness. And if history is any guide, they will plow it all under rather than feed a starving countryman.

Half your country is on food stamps proud American.

[Dunedain]

Haiti has the population of Finland and Norway combined.

Right. There are too many Haitians to feed themselves.

[Dunedain]

Complete ignorance. 30 years ago Haiti was self-sufficient in food production. The USA and it's corporate partners brutalized successive regimes (ala full military intervention) and forced to eliminate their protective tarrifs and import cheap US grain. Destroyed local agriculture but what a boon for USA fruit and sugar companies! Now they import 80% of their food. And with the help of a series of brutal USA supported dictatorships, Haiti is now a carefully scripted blood bath.

Ah but soon maybe people will be saying there's too many Americans in relation to the amount of food we grow. Because Americans don't really grow ANY food anymore. It's all big agribusiness. And if history is any guide, they will plow it all under rather than feed a starving countryman.

Half your country is on food stamps proud American.

Haiti's failure as a country precedes the American occupation. They instituted genocidal regimes long before the Americans came. They've had one dictator after another like most African countries. They inherited the wealthiest colony in the world via genocide and now they have a GDP of 1,300 dollars per person. Worse than most African countries....and that's saying a lot.

But yes, you are right. We are also going down the same path. As America imports more and more people from the 3rd world we will also become a 3rd world country with all the horror associated with that. Hopefully, our children will understand why we put others ahead of them.

[Oyate]

Haiti's failure as a country precedes the American occupation. They instituted genocidal regimes long before the Americans came. They've had one dictator after another like most African countries.

Oh man. OK does your confusion derive from thinking the people you see on TV there now are the colonists? I got news for you, no African nation invaded and colonized Haiti, it was colonized by the French who eliminated almost all natives and imported black slaves. Whom are the primary inhabitants today, having eliminated French rule.

So the present inhabitants weren't "given the world's richest nation", they were stuck there in slavery. And once again, your "dictators" were universally propped up or manipulated by the USA.

Where did you learn history? Colouring books?

[jmdrake]

Haiti's failure as a country precedes the American occupation. They instituted genocidal regimes long before the Americans came. They've had one dictator after another like most African countries. They inherited the wealthiest colony in the world via genocide and now they have a GDP of 1,300 dollars per person. Worse than most African countries....and that's saying a lot.

But yes, you are right. We are also going down the same path. As America imports more and more people from the 3rd world we will also become a 3rd world country with all the horror associated with that. Hopefully, our children will understand why we put others ahead of them.

:rolleyes: Like I said. Your ignorance of Haitian history is astounding. Inherited the wealthiest colony? After the revolution, and before any genocide, France demanded and was paid billions in gold to compensate the "loss" of the plantation owners. Despite that France invaded, at the behest of the remaining plantation owners who wanted slavery reinstated, and got their butts kicked. While this doesn't excuse what happened after that, it does put it into a different perspective.

[Dunedain]

:rolleyes: Like I said. Your ignorance of Haitian history is astounding. Inherited the wealthiest colony? After the revolution, and before any genocide, France demanded and was paid billions in gold to compensate the "loss" of the plantation owners. Despite that France invaded, at the behest of the remaining plantation owners who wanted slavery reinstated, and got their butts kicked. While this doesn't excuse what happened after that, it does put it into a different perspective.

The Germans had the greatest war debt ever and had (and still have) a modern society. It affected them only while the nation was looted and then stopped. Haiti is "special"

Haiti has been (and always will be) a basket case due to the people that live there. My point has always been that dispite having their own paradise island and freedom from slavery they haven't been able to build a society any better than their African brethern.

If their society is sub-par, then they are to blame. No me, not you, or bankers, or the French or anybody else but themselves. Amazing that some seek to avoid that logic (probably too much television or something).

[Oyate]

The Germans had the greatest war debt ever and had (and still have) a modern society. It affected them only while the nation was looted and then stopped. Haiti is "special"

Haiti has been (and always will be) a basket case due to the people that live there. My point has always been that dispite having their own paradise island and freedom from slavery they haven't been able to build a society any better than their African brethern.

If their society is sub-par, then they are to blame. No me, not you, or bankers, or the French or anybody else but themselves. Amazing that some seek to avoid that logic (probably too much television or something).

OK so you need some work on European history as well. Maybe get familiar with a little thing called the Marshal Plan.

Plus your comparison of a post-industrialized European nation to a banana republic is amusing.

But let's stick with Haiti shall we? OK, this is getting repetitious but what you had in Haiti WAS NOT HAITIAN SOCIETY. The original Haitians were ERADICATED. What you had was a bunch of former slaves, not a SOCIETY at all.

Your statement above is only correct insofar as the past has absolutely no bearing on the future. Funny how this attitude is shared by those who are ignorant of the past.

[Dunedain]

OK so you need some work on European history as well. Maybe get familiar with a little thing called the Marshal Plan.

Plus your comparison of a post-industrialized European nation to a banana republic is amusing.

But let's stick with Haiti shall we? OK, this is getting repetitious but what you had in Haiti WAS NOT HAITIAN SOCIETY. The original Haitians were ERADICATED. What you had was a bunch of former slaves, not a SOCIETY at all.

Your statement above is only correct insofar as the past has absolutely no bearing on the future. Funny how this attitude is shared by those who are ignorant of the past.

There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see.

Haiti is a failed nation because of the people that live in Haiti. I fail to see how that is a difficult concept to grasp. no I'm not talking about the Indians that live their before. I'm not talking about the French. I'm talking about the Africans - the ones that are sniffing fermented fecal juice to get high. The Africans have taken an island that was like Detroit back in it's heday and turned it into....well, Detroit today.

[jmdrake]

The Germans had the greatest war debt ever and had (and still have) a modern society. It affected them only while the nation was looted and then stopped. Haiti is "special"

Haiti has been (and always will be) a basket case due to the people that live there. My point has always been that dispite having their own paradise island and freedom from slavery they haven't been able to build a society any better than their African brethern.

If their society is sub-par, then they are to blame. No me, not you, or bankers, or the French or anybody else but themselves. Amazing that some seek to avoid that logic (probably too much television or something).

It's funny to watch you jump from one stupid argument to the next. You get proven wrong multiple times and yet never take the time to admit it. It's funny how you've totally ignored Oyate's point about the Marshall plan. Oh well. Convince a fool against his will he'll have the same opinion still.

[Oyate]

You know, I think Dunedain is getting down to one essential point: Haitians are black and black people are sub-par and whatever condition they are in is their fault. No matter what the history is, no matter what the external input, it's their fault.

Hey Dunedain, did you know you are defending Citibank's predecessor? Under the aegis of the then-NY Fed? I'm saying are you really sure which team you are batting for?

[Dunedain]

You know, I think Dunedain is getting down to one essential point: Haitians are black and black people are sub-par and whatever condition they are in is their fault. No matter what the history is, no matter what the external input, it's their fault.


You came to that conclusion all on your own. I never mentioned black people once in this thread...lol!

Are you a racist?

[Oyate]

You came to that conclusion all on your own. I never mentioned black people once in this thread...lol!

Are you a racist?

I will say that Euro cultural supremacists get up my nose. But don't let that detract from your heretofore inspired argument.

[Dunedain]

I will say that Euro cultural supremacists get up my nose. But don't let that detract from your heretofore inspired argument.

And I'm sick of politically correctness...and people putting words in my mouth without listening to the truth.

Haiti is a failed state because of the people that live (today) in Haiti. Just watch the videos of the country.

[Greenly]

Haitians are starving because there are too many Haitians in relation to the amount of food they can grow. It's that simple.


True