Poll: Most Americans would trim liberties to be safer

[bobbyw24]

This will make it challenging to recruit new members to this cause

http://libertypulse.com/article/3532

[phill4paul]

Most Americans still believe in the current political parties ability to govern. So this doesn't surprise me.

[SelfTaught]

We're doomed. I have no faith in people.

And I wonder why I drink?:confused:

[bobbyw24]

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."~Benjamin Franklin

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Just remember that we have the moral imperative. Not only that, it only takes a small minute minority to make a difference. Keep educating yourself, and becoming an ardent activist. Take a page from the Sons of Liberty book (Not exactly, lynching tax collectors just, yet...:p but their activism), and put liberty above your life and wealth. Once people are ready to actually sacrifice everything for liberty, then you will see momentus change. We are getting there. I have hope. I just don't think we've done enough, not nearly. Everyone here should be an activist. Need to get out there educating, not just on the forums :p

[jmdrake]

And that's the problem with relying solely on the "blowback" theory on 9/11. You might get someone to agree with you that we caused some of the problems (although most Americans are too prideful to do that), but at the end of the day people want to know what you are going to do to keep them safe right now. That's why people like Peter Schiff endorse bombing Iran, why Rand comes out against closing Gitmo and why John Stossel endorses profiling. They need to have an answer to the people that ask the question "What about the terrorists that don't get the memo that we've changed our foreign policy or are so mad at this point that they don't care"?

Note that my position is not simply about 9/11 being an "inside job". Right after 9/11 I was in "how can the government keep us safe" mode too. But as I did the "mental math" I realized the only way to protect us from a determined terrorist who didn't mind going after "soft targets" was a total police state and I decided that wasn't worth it. So I started asking the question "Could the government have prevented this with the power they already had?" The answer is a resounding yes, even before you get to the question of prior knowledge let alone government participation. The key problem is that we don't hold anyone accountable within our own government. When terror attacks happen and individuals clearly fail we never fire anyone. In the old days a guard could be shot for sleeping on duty. Now when a guard leaves his post we arrest the guy who took advantage and kissed his girlfriend. Now we give medals out for failure and more power to the agencies that failed. People mistakenly assume that pushing anything other than "blowback" will turn people against us. Nothing could be further from the truth. When Ron Paul was on Larry King, Ben Stein was agreeing with him on government accountability. Had Dr. Paul gone on to talk about stuff the media buried, like why the FBI lied and said they only arrested on person or how did a "sharp dressed man" get the underwear bomber on the plane without a passport it would have been difficult for backstab Ben to shift gears. Same if Dr. Paul had starting bringing up the lack of accountability from 9/11 itself, with terrorists getting "express visas" to get into the country and FBI agents being blocked from certain aspects of their investigation before 9/11, or the entire "Able Danger" story. That's because Stein was already agreeing with Dr. Paul. But bringing up "blowback" elicited the very same attack that some people are so worried will happen if we talk about anything other than "blowback".

Don't misunderstand me. It's important to shift our foreign policy. But first and foremost we must show to the American people that the security apparatus does not provide safety, only tyranny. The government isn't just moving the "naked body scanners" into airports. They're being moved into courthouses now (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/219425/new_courthouse_body_scanner_looks_under.html). And even mobile body scanners (http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/01/dutch_police_develop_mobile_bo.php) are being rolled out so that this will be used everywhere. The links I posted are from MSM, but I first heard this on infowars.com (http://www.infowars.com/body-scanner-installed-in-colorado-courthouse-in-2008/). We don't do ourselves any favors when we spent all of our time fighting the very people that ferret out the very information that could change the statistic in the OP.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[coyote_sprit]

Have we learned nothing in the last 10 years?

[catdd]

Have we learned nothing in the last 10 years?

Right. If you give them one liberty you may as well give them all.
The problem is that we never get them back after the danger has passed. They take those then ask for more.

[Son of Liberty 2]

"Dogs know what to do with polls." - John Diefenbaker

[Bruno]

Right. If you give them one liberty you may as well give them all.
The problem is that we never get them back after the danger has passed. They take those then ask for more.

That assumes that our government would ever let us believe that the danger has passed. At the rate we are creating enemies, and with our "War on Terror" that will never have an end as long as we have "bad guys wanting to kill us for our freedom", I don't see that happening.

[Travlyr]

We're doomed. I have no faith in people.

And I wonder why I drink?:confused:

We're not doomed. We have a lot of teaching to do and the pay is not real good, but "Freedom is Popular."

This post is simply more propaganda. Spread the good words of liberty.

And I know why I drink. :D

[catdd]

That assumes that our government would ever let us believe that the danger has passed. At the rate we are creating enemies, and with our "War on Terror" that will never have an end as long as we have "bad guys wanting to kill us for our freedom", I don't see that happening.


That's true. We are creating our own bad karma.

[dr. hfn]

All i have to say is...Free State Project

[bobbyw24]

And that's the problem with relying solely on the "blowback" theory on 9/11. You might get someone to agree with you that we caused some of the problems (although most Americans are too prideful to do that), but at the end of the day people want to know what you are going to do to keep them safe right now. That's why people like Peter Schiff endorse bombing Iran, why Rand comes out against closing Gitmo and why John Stossel endorses profiling. They need to have an answer to the people that ask the question "What about the terrorists that don't get the memo that we've changed our foreign policy or are so mad at this point that they don't care"?

Note that my position is not simply about 9/11 being an "inside job". Right after 9/11 I was in "how can the government keep us safe" mode too. But as I did the "mental math" I realized the only way to protect us from a determined terrorist who didn't mind going after "soft targets" was a total police state and I decided that wasn't worth it. So I started asking the question "Could the government have prevented this with the power they already had?" The answer is a resounding yes, even before you get to the question of prior knowledge let alone government participation. The key problem is that we don't hold anyone accountable within our own government. When terror attacks happen and individuals clearly fail we never fire anyone. In the old days a guard could be shot for sleeping on duty. Now when a guard leaves his post we arrest the guy who took advantage and kissed his girlfriend. Now we give medals out for failure and more power to the agencies that failed. People mistakenly assume that pushing anything other than "blowback" will turn people against us. Nothing could be further from the truth. When Ron Paul was on Larry King, Ben Stein was agreeing with him on government accountability. Had Dr. Paul gone on to talk about stuff the media buried, like why the FBI lied and said they only arrested on person or how did a "sharp dressed man" get the underwear bomber on the plane without a passport it would have been difficult for backstab Ben to shift gears. Same if Dr. Paul had starting bringing up the lack of accountability from 9/11 itself, with terrorists getting "express visas" to get into the country and FBI agents being blocked from certain aspects of their investigation before 9/11, or the entire "Able Danger" story. That's because Stein was already agreeing with Dr. Paul. But bringing up "blowback" elicited the very same attack that some people are so worried will happen if we talk about anything other than "blowback".

Don't misunderstand me. It's important to shift our foreign policy. But first and foremost we must show to the American people that the security apparatus does not provide safety, only tyranny. The government isn't just moving the "naked body scanners" into airports. They're being moved into courthouses now (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/219425/new_courthouse_body_scanner_looks_under.html). And even mobile body scanners (http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/01/dutch_police_develop_mobile_bo.php) are being rolled out so that this will be used everywhere. The links I posted are from MSM, but I first heard this on infowars.com (http://www.infowars.com/body-scanner-installed-in-colorado-courthouse-in-2008/). We don't do ourselves any favors when we spent all of our time fighting the very people that ferret out the very information that could change the statistic in the OP.

Regards,

John M. Drake

Good analysis, John

[LibForestPaul]

Most Americans would shit on the constitution if they could getting a 10% raise.

[Matthew Zak]

maybe they need to see this lil video. :)

YouTube - The Spirit Of Freedom 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx7t-eoH-04)

[LibertyBrews]

Most Americans, unfortunatly, are retards.

[Minlawc]

It's actually less than I expected.