Changing religion when the health bill passes?

[Elwar]

Ok, so I see that the Amish will be exempt from this new Health Care horror. I saw something about the Christian Scientist religion getting an exemption too...

How difficult would it be to claim one of those religions as your own?

Could I call myself Amish...but just be a very sinful Amish person who is struggling with my horrible ways of using electricity, and the Internet and driving a car, etc...? I mean, you can be a Baptist and still drink alcohol even though you're not supposed to...

I would seriously change to whatever religion is exempt from this. My wife and I are currently religion searching right now anyway. If it's Christian then that's the main thing, everything else is semantics.

[moostraks]

Ok, so I see that the Amish will be exempt from this new Health Care horror. I saw something about the Christian Scientist religion getting an exemption too...

How difficult would it be to claim one of those religions as your own?

Could I call myself Amish...but just be a very sinful Amish person who is struggling with my horrible ways of using electricity, and the Internet and driving a car, etc...? I mean, you can be a Baptist and still drink alcohol even though you're not supposed to...

I would seriously change to whatever religion is exempt from this. My wife and I are currently religion searching right now anyway. If it's Christian then that's the main thing, everything else is semantics.

Just the Amish or Anabaptist in general that are exempt? Anabaptists are non-resistant, anti-government types for the most part. If you are Christian then Anabaptists can lean towards liberal beliefs in some churches. Where do you find the exemptions being discussed?

[Kotin]

this is worth exploring.. bump.

[erowe1]

Can't you just claim that your have religious objection to insurance without having to change religions?

And what does changing religions entail as far as the government is concerned? Do they have change of religion forms you fill out?

[mczerone]

Could I call myself Amish...but just be a very sinful Amish person who is struggling with my horrible ways of using electricity, and the Internet and driving a car, etc...? I mean, you can be a Baptist and still drink alcohol even though you're not supposed to...

It doesn't matter what you do, say, or claim: they will tell you what your religion is, and how they will treat you.

I'd like to see people start to claim "Amish", I'd venture to guess we'd have federal agents running "religion audits" akin to tax evasion investigations or welfare/SSA benefit 'hearings'.


What really interests me is claiming that I have a moral aversion to participating in the redistributional programs while maintaining a faith in there being no supernatural power.

[erowe1]

But if you do claim a religious exemption, would that mean that later if you get sick or injured and want to buy insurance for the care required by what will at that time be a pre-existing condition that they aren't allowed to deny you coverage for, will they still be able to deny you because you had claimed the religious exemption in the past? Or will they sell you the insurance, but then the Fed will back charge you for the years you didn't pay their fee for uninsured people? I have a feeling something like one of those scenarios would be a likely consequence.

[idirtify]

It looks like the gov was ahead of you on that plan. Apparently, you can’t just up and join:

http://www.amish.net/faq.asp

Question: How can I join the Amish community and become an Amish person?

Answer: Anyone can live in an Amish community by simply moving to where the Amish live in a specific area. If a person wants to join the Amish church, the person must move to an Amish community, live there for a length of time (which could be years), accepting the Amish and the Amish accepting you (it is really a mutual issue), being willing to live within the rules of the Church (Ordnung). To become a member of the Amish church requires a genuine religious commitment which is much more than just moving to an Amish community and living the Plain lifestyle of not using electricity, cars, telephones, etc. Answer coordinated by THE BUDGET

[erowe1]

It looks like the gov was ahead of you on that plan. Apparently, you can’t just up and join:

http://www.amish.net/faq.asp

Question: How can I join the Amish community and become an Amish person?

Answer: Anyone can live in an Amish community by simply moving to where the Amish live in a specific area. If a person wants to join the Amish church, the person must move to an Amish community, live there for a length of time (which could be years), accepting the Amish and the Amish accepting you (it is really a mutual issue), being willing to live within the rules of the Church (Ordnung). To become a member of the Amish church requires a genuine religious commitment which is much more than just moving to an Amish community and living the Plain lifestyle of not using electricity, cars, telephones, etc. Answer coordinated by THE BUDGET

Is the exemption specifically for people who belong to Amish communities? Or is it for anyone who claims religious objections to health insurance like the Amish have?

[angelatc]

It looks like the gov was ahead of you on that plan. Apparently, you can’t just up and join:

http://www.amish.net/faq.asp

Question: How can I join the Amish community and become an Amish person?

Answer: Anyone can live in an Amish community by simply moving to where the Amish live in a specific area. If a person wants to join the Amish church, the person must move to an Amish community, live there for a length of time (which could be years), accepting the Amish and the Amish accepting you (it is really a mutual issue), being willing to live within the rules of the Church (Ordnung). To become a member of the Amish church requires a genuine religious commitment which is much more than just moving to an Amish community and living the Plain lifestyle of not using electricity, cars, telephones, etc. Answer coordinated by THE BUDGET


Google Beachy Amish.

[moostraks]

It looks like the gov was ahead of you on that plan. Apparently, you can’t just up and join:

http://www.amish.net/faq.asp

Question: How can I join the Amish community and become an Amish person?

Answer: Anyone can live in an Amish community by simply moving to where the Amish live in a specific area. If a person wants to join the Amish church, the person must move to an Amish community, live there for a length of time (which could be years), accepting the Amish and the Amish accepting you (it is really a mutual issue), being willing to live within the rules of the Church (Ordnung). To become a member of the Amish church requires a genuine religious commitment which is much more than just moving to an Amish community and living the Plain lifestyle of not using electricity, cars, telephones, etc. Answer coordinated by THE BUDGET

well this is garbage because I know plenty of anabaptist believers who are adverse to insurance....

[idirtify]

well this is garbage because I know plenty of anabaptist believers who are adverse to insurance....

My only point was how difficult it is to join. Here’s another indication:

http://amishamerica.typepad.com/amish_america/2007/10/how-to-join-the.html

How to Join the Amish: The Step-by-Step Guide
In a nutshell: come live with us, go to church, get a job, learn Pennsylvania Dutch, do all this for a year and then get educated in the ways of the church, and finally, get voted in by the church. Voila. It's that simple.

[Bman]

My only point was how difficult it is to join. Here’s another indication:

http://amishamerica.typepad.com/amish_america/2007/10/how-to-join-the.html

How to Join the Amish: The Step-by-Step Guide
In a nutshell: come live with us, go to church, get a job, learn Pennsylvania Dutch, do all this for a year and then get educated in the ways of the church, and finally, get voted in by the church. Voila. It's that simple.

Bingo!

However, you don't have to give up everything. You can keep a phone in your outhouse. You can also have a cellphone if it is for business. You can also own any vehicle you want if it is for business, you just cannot drive it except on the job site(although I believe this is only for construction, never seen a tractor pulling a plow on an amish farm).

Then what you do is you keep a generator in your barn (yep you can have one, int the barn) and deck out your basement with a plasma T.V., and computer. Just run an extension cable from the barn whenever you want to use the stuff, most importantly, LET NO ONE IN YOUR BASEMENT!!!

[Ninja Homer]

I'm starting to think that the Amish had it right all along. It's not about not using new technology, it's about being self-reliant. Using electricity (and all the technology that goes with it) is fine, as long as you don't have to rely on somebody else providing the electricity. Many Amish are now using solar power. The same philosophy goes for everything else like insurance, fuel, food, etc.

The "Freedom Living" sub-forum could easily be called the "Live Like the Amish" forum, and 99% of the threads would still be on topic.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Does anyone else find it a bit odd that a group of people that don't believe in electricity or technology has web sites?

-t

[Bman]

Does anyone else find it a bit odd that a group of people that don't believe in electricity or technology has web sites?

-t

Having grown up across from an Amish farm. No.

[devil21]

I dont like the health bill either but all that Amish stuff sounds pretty extreme just to get out of the insurance scam.

[moostraks]

My only point was how difficult it is to join. Here’s another indication:

http://amishamerica.typepad.com/amish_america/2007/10/how-to-join-the.html

How to Join the Amish: The Step-by-Step Guide
In a nutshell: come live with us, go to church, get a job, learn Pennsylvania Dutch, do all this for a year and then get educated in the ways of the church, and finally, get voted in by the church. Voila. It's that simple.

I wasn't growling at you, but the fact they would limit it to the Amish communities only as opposed to Anabaptists in general. Many to most Anabaptists do not like insurance and find in contradictory to their religious beliefs.

Sorry I wasn't initially more specific as to what I was referring to previously.:)

[angelatc]

I wasn't growling at you, but the fact they would limit it to the Amish communities only as opposed to Anabaptists in general. Many to most Anabaptists do not like insurance and find in contradictory to their religious beliefs.

Sorry I wasn't initially more specific as to what I was referring to previously.:)

Anabaptists? I don't know them, but how about the Christian Scientists? It makes more sense for the Amish to carry insurance than it does the Christian Scientists.

This just proves that health care isn't a right. Here we are establishing the groups who get it and the groups who don't.

[jmdrake]

I'm starting to think that the Amish had it right all along. It's not about not using new technology, it's about being self-reliant. Using electricity (and all the technology that goes with it) is fine, as long as you don't have to rely on somebody else providing the electricity. Many Amish are now using solar power. The same philosophy goes for everything else like insurance, fuel, food, etc.

The "Freedom Living" sub-forum could easily be called the "Live Like the Amish" forum, and 99% of the threads would still be on topic.

Yep! When I visited Amish country a couple of years ago quite a few had gas powered water pumps.

[Elwar]

Found it...they're using the same terminology as in the Social Security code.


(g) Members of certain religious faiths
(1) Exemption
Any individual may file an application (in such form and manner, and with such official, as may be prescribed by regulations under this chapter) for an exemption from the tax imposed by this chapter if he is a member of a recognized religious sect or division thereof and is an adherent of established tenets or teachings of such sect or division by reason of which he is conscientiously opposed to acceptance of the benefits of any private or public insurance which makes payments in the event of death, disability, old-age, or retirement or makes payments toward the cost of, or provides services for, medical care (including the benefits of any insurance system established by the Social Security Act). Such exemption may be granted only if the application contains or is accompanied by—
(A) such evidence of such individual’s membership in, and adherence to the tenets or teachings of, the sect or division thereof as the Secretary may require for purposes of determining such individual’s compliance with the preceding sentence, and
(B) his waiver of all benefits and other payments under titles II and XVIII of the Social Security Act on the basis of his wages and self-employment income as well as all such benefits and other payments to him on the basis of the wages and self-employment income of any other person,
and only if the Commissioner of Social Security finds that—
(C) such sect or division thereof has the established tenets or teachings referred to in the preceding sentence,
(D) it is the practice, and has been for a period of time which he deems to be substantial, for members of such sect or division thereof to make provision for their dependent members which in his judgment is reasonable in view of their general level of living, and
(E) such sect or division thereof has been in existence at all times since December 31, 1950.
An exemption may not be granted to any individual if any benefit or other payment referred to in subparagraph (B) became payable (or, but for section 203 or 222(b) of the Social Security Act, would have become payable) at or before the time of the filing of such waiver.

[erowe1]

Anabaptists? I don't know them, but how about the Christian Scientists? It makes more sense for the Amish to carry insurance than it does the Christian Scientists.

This just proves that health care isn't a right. Here we are establishing the groups who get it and the groups who don't.

Anabaptists mainly include Amish and Mennonite I believe. The term anabaptist is one that goes all the way back to the Reformation and applies to the tradition that Mennonites and Amish both represent today. I believe there is also a more complicated genealogy that can be traced from modern Baptist denominations back to anabaptists. I don't know who else would fit into the anabaptist category (perhaps the Grace Brethren or other Brethren groups?), but if any my guess is that they would be rather small and lesser known groups.

[Bman]

Anabaptists mainly include Amish and Mennonite I believe. The term anabaptist is one that goes all the way back to the Reformation and applies to the tradition that Mennonites and Amish both represent today. I believe there is also a more complicated genealogy that can be traced from modern Baptist denominations back to anabaptists. I don't know who else would fit into the anabaptist category (perhaps the Grace Brethren or other Brethren groups?), but if any my guess is that they would be rather small and lesser known groups.

Maybe Old Brethren, a split form the Church of the Brethren. They are pretty simular to Amish.

[cindy25]

amish also exempt from social security

[silverhandorder]

Haha my old history teacher (got me interested in politics) used to brag how he can declare himself Amish due to having relatives who were. I think the subject of discussion at that time was social security.

[Dianne]

Is it possible to join a native american tribe?

[haaaylee]

Ok, so I see that the Amish will be exempt from this new Health Care horror. I saw something about the Christian Scientist religion getting an exemption too...

How difficult would it be to claim one of those religions as your own?

Could I call myself Amish...but just be a very sinful Amish person who is struggling with my horrible ways of using electricity, and the Internet and driving a car, etc...? I mean, you can be a Baptist and still drink alcohol even though you're not supposed to...

I would seriously change to whatever religion is exempt from this. My wife and I are currently religion searching right now anyway. If it's Christian then that's the main thing, everything else is semantics.


Well, you can already claim to be a priest or of a certain religion (must get head priest/pastor to confirm) and be able to opt out of Social Security . . .