Are the Tea Parties now a Neocon tool?

[Todd]

One of my liberal friends sent me this article. He prefaced it with a quote:


My tenth grade History teacher had a handmade poster on the wall of her classroom. She had also been my father's teacher and I think the poster was up back then.It was a quote attributed to Thomas Jefferson. "A nation that thinks it can be ignorant and free thinks what never was and never will be." I was reminded of that quote every time I watched a health care public meeting or the gatherings of the tea baggers.

The guy is right about the mentality of many of the people at these events, but he's wrong about the protests in principle.

Are the Tea parties worth the effort anymore? Do we really want to be lumped in to an association with these types?


___________

Taking Tea with the Lizards
By Joe Bageant


The Republican Party will beat the living piss out of anybody for a buck. The Democrats will fly the flag of FDR, even as they pirate the public coffers on behalf of Wall Street. Don't think the American people have not noticed these things. After thirty years of pistol whipping and emptying of their wallets, they've started to figure out there just may be a public robbery underway, with both parties as accomplices.

And so Americans at both ends of the political spectrum are finally wising up to the need for a third party. Even if it is a third party within their own party, which is no third party at all, of course. However, for Americans it's all about branding, what you call a thing, that's important. Call a six-ounce block of corn sugar with sunflower seeds and raisins stuck on the outside an "Organic Energy Bar" and by god, you have natural food right there on the 7-Eleven shelf. What a thing is called is how a nation a people carefully bred for consumption will see it, thanks to that advertising arm of American capitalism called the news media


Presently surfacing from the frothing drek we call our political system is a thing called the Tea Party. Whether advertised as such or not, the Tea Party is (http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/01/taking-tea-with-the-lizards.html)

[AuH20]

40% of the tea parties are composed of vigilant patriots. Only a fool couldn't see that. Keep flying the flag of discontent and prepare ourselves for the next course of action. I think it's inevitable that we will reach that crossroad when peaceful assembly in no longer an option.

[reduen]

The answer is yes, the current tea party movement is an attempt by the neo-cons to become relevant again but, we used it to accomplish our goals instead! As with any battle, it is whoever is the most diligent that will win.

[Todd]

40% of the tea parties are composed of vigilant patriots. Only a fool couldn't see that. Keep flying the flag of discontent and prepare ourselves for the next course of action. I think it's inevitable that we will reach that crossroads when peaceful assembly in no longer an option.


My friends are very vigilant Anti war advocates and principled....but they can't abide the tea party mentality. It's a real shame, because they were very supportive of Ron Paul during the primary it's just that they see no reflection of that in today's tea parties.
Convincing them that these events represent true discontent is a losing battle for me lately.

where does the 40% come from?

[pacelli]

The mainstream media has essentially made the entire tea party movement a joke.

[klamath]

Another good question is whether the Libertarian party has become a democratic party tool?

[AuH20]

My friends are very vigilant Anti war advocates and principled....but they can't abide the tea party mentality. It's a real shame, because they were very supportive of Ron Paul during the primary it's just that they see no reflection of that in today's tea parties.
Convincing them that these events represent true discontent is a losing battle for me lately.

where does the 40% come from?

I attended two large events and conversed with a broad range of people. There are many more sleepers than you think there are.

[davesxj]

I've been to three local tea party events, the Washington D.C. march, and as many townhall meetings in my district as I could.

Those who say that there is a minority of grassroots libertarians in the tea party are right. The majority are types like the people over at resistnet.com. A bunch of Statists.

There lies the problem. The neocons have more motivation than we do. Fear. Fear of Obama, fear of terrorism, fear of taxes, fear of liberals, fear of a-religious types. It goes on and on. It's like they're living in one big nightmare constantly and they NEED a State to protect them from all of those things.

I, and I assume like most of you, don't fear what's happening politically in this country. I most certainly abhor it. But unlike their fears, my hatred of Statism is not blinding.

So we should use the advantage of clarity that we have to combat the establishment. Don't stop showing up at tea party events. We should be showing up at all events, left, right, up, or down on the political spectrum. They need a constant barrage. FNC runs 24/7 and we should do the same.

[Ethek]

I've been to three local tea party events, the Washington D.C. march, and as many townhall meetings in my district as I could.

Those who say that there is a minority of grassroots libertarians in the tea party are right. The majority are types like the people over at resistnet.com. A bunch of Statists.

There lies the problem. The neocons have more motivation than we do. Fear. Fear of Obama, fear of terrorism, fear of taxes, fear of liberals, fear of a-religious types. It goes on and on. It's like they're living in one big nightmare constantly and they NEED a State to protect them from all of those things.

I, and I assume like most of you, don't fear what's happening politically in this country. I most certainly abhor it. But unlike their fears, my hatred of Statism is not blinding.

So we should use the advantage of clarity that we have to combat the establishment. Don't stop showing up at tea party events. We should be showing up at all events, left, right, up, or down on the political spectrum. They need a constant barrage. FNC runs 24/7 and we should do the same.

After sitting in at rallys in four diffrent states I would agree. Any liberty supporter raises the level of conversation at those events dramatically. Most Tea-Partiers are angry but unprincipled (http://gadsdenunion.ning.com/profiles/blogs/a-purpose-let-me-share-it-with). No wonder the establishment is clamoring to be the 'one' to point them in the direction to go and let loose.

[Slutter McGee]

Honestly, I do not believe that neo-cons are the biggest threat to the tea party movement. Perhaps there are many that will support international interventionism who are involved in the tea-parties. I think this is ok, as long as the focus stays on fiscal issues. The biggest threat, as I see it, comes from the religious right. I could very much see an attempt to move the tea parties into the realm of so called socially conservative issues. Whereas there is a guinuine split on issues concerning the war, there is still a loud, vocal, large, and most importantly, organized religious wing of the party that I could easily see slowly taking them over.

Thats not to say that I think we should attempt to move to tea-parties towards the socially liberal or libertarian viewpoint either. Rather that our focus should be concerned ONLY with fiscal issues insofar as they contribute the unification of many conservatives and libertarians in this particular circumstance.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[davesxj]

Honestly, I do not believe that neo-cons are the biggest threat to the tea party movement. Perhaps there are many that will support international interventionism who are involved in the tea-parties. I think this is ok, as long as the focus stays on fiscal issues. The biggest threat, as I see it, comes from the religious right. I could very much see an attempt to move the tea parties into the realm of so called socially conservative issues. Whereas there is a guinuine split on issues concerning the war, there is still a loud, vocal, large, and most importantly, organized religious wing of the party that I could easily see slowly taking them over.

Thats not to say that I think we should attempt to move to tea-parties towards the socially liberal or libertarian viewpoint either. Rather that our focus should be concerned ONLY with fiscal issues insofar as they contribute the unification of many conservatives and libertarians in this particular circumstance.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Our foreign policy for the next year has already cost us around 3/4 of a trillion dollars. That cannot be ignored as a fiscal issue.

[speciallyblend]

The answer is yes, the current tea party movement is an attempt by the neo-cons to become relevant again but, we used it to accomplish our goals instead! As with any battle, it is whoever is the most diligent that will win.

yep i agree, call the neo-cons out no matter the party..

[angelatc]

The guy is right about the mentality of many of the people at these events, but he's wrong about the protests in principle.

Calling the opposition "tea baggers" leaves me no doubt about your friend's mentality, either.


Are the Tea parties worth the effort anymore? Do we really want to be lumped in to an association with these types?

Tom Woods mentality is above ours by leaps and bounds. Who do you trust more - a scholar of "Thomas Freakin' Jefferson" or a loser who refers to a poster he doesn't actually even understand?

[Todd]

Calling the opposition "tea baggers" leaves me no doubt about your friend's mentality, either.

Well.. He's a left wing socialist type. But I don't fault him on the terminolgoy because that's what the media has told everyone the movement is called.

And a little inside Information: This socialist friend turned me on to Ron Paul by suggesting I come to the meetup with him. He also voted for him in the primary. ;)

We disagree on things, but we agree on much more than not.

[ScoutsHonor]

The mainstream media has essentially made the entire tea party movement a joke.

You said it! The mainstream media speaks with the voice of Big Brother. How is it that Americans haven't recognized this?- that continues to amaze me.

[Slutter McGee]

Our foreign policy for the next year has already cost us around 3/4 of a trillion dollars. That cannot be ignored as a fiscal issue.

Of course I agree with that, but our social and monetary policies are going to break this country before the foreign policy.

Attacking one issue at a time, does not mean that one relinquishes their principles. Its like fucking credit cards. If I try to pay off all of them at once, I can't do it. If I attack one at a time, eventually I start making progress. That doesn't mean that paying off the others wouldn't be good. Simply that I don't have the money, or in our case political capital, to accomplish such a goal.

Right now the liberty movement has the means and the national climate to attack domestic fiscal issues. And that is what we should do. This doesn't mean that we shouldnt go after the other issues when sound opportunity strikes.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[BlackTerrel]

Do they really have to keep calling them the tea baggers - do people know what that means?

[SelfTaught]

Do they really have to keep calling them the tea baggers - do people know what that means?

They most certainly do. That's why it's childish and just downright offensive. No limits to indecency.

[parocks]

The article was written by a liberal.

The main purpose of the main tea party in 2009 was to protest taxing and spending.

The basic Republican message.

I don't know if the basic message has changed from the generic "I'm against taxing and spending, especially now that the Democrats are the ones doing the taxing and spending."

The reason why the 9/12 march had something like a million people is the simplicity and popularity of that basic message.

That's the basic, core Republican message.

Maybe the message has changed from that, but I doubt it. If you aren't confortable with cutting taxes and spending, you really aren't a Republican.

The Republican Party and some Republican politicians were guilty of insufficiently cutting taxes and spending so they were criticized as well as the Democrats. Not as much as the Democrats, but they weren't blameless.




One of my liberal friends sent me this article. He prefaced it with a quote:



The guy is right about the mentality of many of the people at these events, but he's wrong about the protests in principle.

Are the Tea parties worth the effort anymore? Do we really want to be lumped in to an association with these types?


___________

Taking Tea with the Lizards
By Joe Bageant


The Republican Party will beat the living piss out of anybody for a buck. The Democrats will fly the flag of FDR, even as they pirate the public coffers on behalf of Wall Street. Don't think the American people have not noticed these things. After thirty years of pistol whipping and emptying of their wallets, they've started to figure out there just may be a public robbery underway, with both parties as accomplices.

And so Americans at both ends of the political spectrum are finally wising up to the need for a third party. Even if it is a third party within their own party, which is no third party at all, of course. However, for Americans it's all about branding, what you call a thing, that's important. Call a six-ounce block of corn sugar with sunflower seeds and raisins stuck on the outside an "Organic Energy Bar" and by god, you have natural food right there on the 7-Eleven shelf. What a thing is called is how a nation a people carefully bred for consumption will see it, thanks to that advertising arm of American capitalism called the news media


Presently surfacing from the frothing drek we call our political system is a thing called the Tea Party. Whether advertised as such or not, the Tea Party is (http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/01/taking-tea-with-the-lizards.html)

[parocks]

Your friends are Democrats, I'm guessing.

The main message of the Tea Party movement is (and was), basically, "be more conservative"

Democrats do not want more conservative. Your friends should not be part of the Tea Party movement. It's not for them, and it never was for them. The tea party movement hasn't changed at all.

Do not try to convince your friends of anything. They are Antiwar Democrats who do not like Conservativism. They liked Ron Paul because Ron Paul is/was Anti War (they are antiwar) and Ron Paul openly criticized Republicans. They like to criticize Republicans. They probably don't like a whole bunch of things about Ron Paul, but they didn't spend much time thinking about those things, because RP was antiwar and critized Republicans.



My friends are very vigilant Anti war advocates and principled....but they can't abide the tea party mentality. It's a real shame, because they were very supportive of Ron Paul during the primary it's just that they see no reflection of that in today's tea parties.
Convincing them that these events represent true discontent is a losing battle for me lately.

where does the 40% come from?

[parocks]

The current tea party movement is standard, middle of the road Republicanism.

Cut taxes, cut spending.

It always was that, and it hasn't changed.

There was no tea party movement before Obama was inaugurated.

(I'm not an expert, though)



The answer is yes, the current tea party movement is an attempt by the neo-cons to become relevant again but, we used it to accomplish our goals instead! As with any battle, it is whoever is the most diligent that will win.

[parocks]

Another good question is whether the Libertarian party has become a democratic party tool?

The Independent / libertarian candidate in a certain high-profile race with an election in a few days is behaving as a tool for the Democratic party candidate.

It's possible for a Libertarian party candidate to go to college students on a college campus and say "legalize all drugs" "end all wars". That would take votes from the Democrat.

[Bman]

It's possible for a Libertarian party candidate to go to college students on a college campus and say "legalize all drugs" "end all wars". That would take votes from the Democrat.

I'd say so. It's done wonders for Nader doing just that.

[parocks]

Very reasonable analysis. An appealing Antiwar message might include "war is expensive" perhaps? War is government spending. War means higher taxes.


Honestly, I do not believe that neo-cons are the biggest threat to the tea party movement. Perhaps there are many that will support international interventionism who are involved in the tea-parties. I think this is ok, as long as the focus stays on fiscal issues. The biggest threat, as I see it, comes from the religious right. I could very much see an attempt to move the tea parties into the realm of so called socially conservative issues. Whereas there is a guinuine split on issues concerning the war, there is still a loud, vocal, large, and most importantly, organized religious wing of the party that I could easily see slowly taking them over.

Thats not to say that I think we should attempt to move to tea-parties towards the socially liberal or libertarian viewpoint either. Rather that our focus should be concerned ONLY with fiscal issues insofar as they contribute the unification of many conservatives and libertarians in this particular circumstance.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[parocks]

Because the tea party movement is for the most part silent on foreign policy issues,
there's room for opposing opinions there, and opportunities to make the antiwar case of fiscal grounds.


Our foreign policy for the next year has already cost us around 3/4 of a trillion dollars. That cannot be ignored as a fiscal issue.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

The Libertarian party candidate in a certain high-profile race with an election in a few days is behaving as a tool for the Democratic party candidate.

It's possible for a Libertarian party candidate to go to college students on a college campus and say "legalize all drugs" "end all wars". That would take votes from the Democrat.

You keep saying this, but Joe Kennedy is running as an Independant.

[parocks]

You keep saying this, but Joe Kennedy is running as an Independant.

You're right. On the other hand, people here and people in the media, including the Globe and/or Herald are describing Kennedy as a Libertarian. But, yeah, you're right.
I'll change my original post.

[Athan]

There are many wimpy tea party wanna be's. But we are the only ones with balls enough to bring our guns.

:D

[dr. hfn]

There are many wimpy tea party wanna be's. But we are the only ones with balls enough to bring our guns.

:D

lol fuk ya!

[.Tom]

The tea parties are now officially neocon operations.

But who cares as long as we get to see theocrat warmonger Sarah Palin! /sarcasm

But yeah, unfortunately, the tea parties are no longer libertarian movements.

[Todd]

The main purpose of the main tea party in 2009 was to protest taxing and spending.



Your friends are Democrats, I'm guessing.

The main message of the Tea Party movement is (and was), basically, "be more conservative"

Democrats do not want more conservative. Your friends should not be part of the Tea Party movement. It's not for them, and it never was for them. The tea party movement hasn't changed at all.

Do not try to convince your friends of anything. They are Antiwar Democrats who do not like Conservativism. They liked Ron Paul because Ron Paul is/was Anti War (they are antiwar) and Ron Paul openly criticized Republicans. They like to criticize Republicans. They probably don't like a whole bunch of things about Ron Paul, but they didn't spend much time thinking about those things, because RP was antiwar and critized Republicans.



That's the crux of it. Both posts are spot on.

But the one point about the tea parties they have right is...... if it's about "taxes" and "government spending".....then many of todays tea party shrills, who I openly acknowledge have hijacked the movement (Neocons), only mean DOMESTIC government spending when they talk the talk.

The fact that they completely ignore foreign and military spending is hypocritical to these lefties as it should be to us as well and makes for a very weak and legitimate movement.

[klamath]

Anti war republicans will only have themselves to blame if the teaparties get taken over by neocons.

There are multiple threads on raising money for Medina and others going on right now but people around here are just whining about a neocon win here or there but not donating to upward moving liberty candidates.