What will Ron Paul do if States actually secede from the union?

[SpicyItalian739]

I haven't really seen this talked about, but there is a growing movement in VT coordinating with a coalition between southern states towards succession. Their stated reasons are essentially that we have strayed too far from our Constitution and that the American empire IS on the verge of collapse, so they want to bring control back to a local level ASAP before the **** hits the fan.

They are calling for a peaceful, non-violent succession *FOR NOW*, but it does seem like they are gaining popularity.

Everything I've heard from the head of this organization sounds EXACTLY like what Dr. Paul has been saying, but the media have been trying to paint them as loons as well.

If they DO gain support, how will this play out with them and Ron Paul?

Allies? Will the Dr. avoid associating with them? Will they consider him not radical ENOUGH?

Will there be an ACTUAL revolt?

I have no clue what all of this means, but the timing does not seem by chance. Something big is going on.

[USPatriot36]

Don't think succession is going anywhere soon. (I hope I am wrong). If it were to happen I can imagine LOTS of people moving to such a state.

[10thAmendmentMan]

I doubt any states will secede in any of our lifetimes. Americans are pretty docile and politically apathetic/ignorant in general. It would take something really radical to... well... radicalize the population. Besides, we still have a simpler, easier solution in voting for Ron. :)

[lx43]

I agree I don't think it will go anywhere. This talk just embodies how frustrated people are with the state of affairs in this country.

[JoshLowry]

I think if Ron were elected, a large number of those people would no longer want to succeed. I don't think it would be an issue during a Paul Presidency.

[American]

If Ron Paul is elected they wouldnt want or need to try and succeed, but I bet there will be allot less gun laws and more state constitutional amendments. or one can only hope anyways.

[SpicyItalian739]

Well Im thinking that Ron Paul might be the only reason they DON'T go through with this...

http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/url/cdl.audible.com/cgi-bin/aw_redirect_wmp.pl?URL=streamos:/audible/content/rt/rfma/000028/rt_rfma_000028_sample.wma&title=The+Vermont+Manifesto&author=Thomas+H.+Naylor&image_end=&http_end=com&URL1=streamos:/audible/freebird/audible/aud_intro.wma&URL2=streamos:/audible/freebird/audible/aud_outro.wma

there's a speech of the Vermont manifesto, this guy is NOT an idiot at all

[Bean]

There's no way a movement like this is going to gain the legitimacy that it needs to actually go through with something like this by the MSM; regardless, this is definitely a huge wake up call to America that a majority are generally concerned that this country is going down the sh*tter, and that CANNOT be ignored.

[hard@work]

I highly doubt that restoring states rights would encourage states to secede. The real concern would be if empowering states would give secession movements strength. But if Ron Paul is elected that would be on such a sweeping rise of patriotism the likes the neocons wish they could have achieved with their media domination and market saturation techniques. The elements that would be secessionist would clearly be the true fringe movements, not the American populace that really just wants to get to work and have a good time afterwards.

[SpicyItalian739]

I highly doubt that restoring states rights would encourage states to secede. The real concern would be if empowering states would give secession movements strength. But if Ron Paul is elected that would be on such a sweeping rise of patriotism the likes the neocons wish they could have achieved with their media domination and market saturation techniques. The elements that would be secessionist would clearly be the true fringe movements, not the American populace that really just wants to get to work and have a good time afterwards.

The more I listen to these people, the more I realize how right they are...

The only difference between them and us is that they concede that the US government has gotten too far from the Constitution to ever find our way back... that the international bankers, globalists, politicians, military-industrial complex, etc. are all too powerful to dismantle without starting over.

I actually think that maybe we need to let these people know that there is another option, and they need to get on board with us!

Ive been reading up on this for the past hour since I first saw him on CNN (Headline News) and Thomas Naylor is reminding me a bit of Benjamin Franklin

http://www.progress.org/2003/vermont1.htm

[Original_Intent]

I agree, who would want to leave with a Ron Paul presidency?

But IF they did, what would he do? /wave

[austin356]

Ron Paul would 100% unequivocally allow any state to secede if the people of that state wanted it. Most anyone (like paul) who is a firm believer and daily reader of Lew Rockwell.com would.

[SpicyItalian739]

Well at first I thought that they were crazy but somebody needs to bring these people into our side... this Naylor guy could be Ron Paul's equal in intellect and understanding of our hijacked Republic

http://www.vermontrepublic.org/links

Look, they have the Ludwig Von Mises Institute in their links

[Green Mountain Boy]

The Board of Advisors of the Second Vermont Republic:

1. Professor Marco Bassani — Professor of History and Political Thought, University of Milan. Fellow, Mises Institute
2. Professor Frank Bryan — Professor of Political Science, University of Vermont, and author of Real Democracy.http://www.uvm.edu/~fbryan/aboutprof.html http://www.uvm.edu/~fbryan/
3. Carolyn Chute — Award-winning Maine novelist, political activist, and author of the best-seller The Beans of Egypt, Maine. Secretary of the 2nd Maine Militia and Border Mountain Militia.
4. Dan Dewalt — a South Newfane musician, antique restorer, and teacher who launched the Vermont town meeting movement to impeach President George W. Bush.
5. Professor Thomas J. DiLorenzo — Professor of Economics, Loyola College, and author of The Real Lincoln. Professor, Ludwig von Mises Intstitute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_DiLorenzo
6. Professor Peter Jones — Professor Emeritus of Philosophy and former Director of the Institute for Advanced Studies in the Humanities, University of Edinburgh.
7. Professor Donald W. Livingston — Professor of Philosophy, Emory University, and author of several books on David Hume.
8. Professor Thomas H. Naylor — Professor Emeritus of Economics, Duke University, and a founder of the Second Vermont Republic.
9. Kirkpatrick Sale — author of Human Scale and After Eden: The Evolution of Human Domination, and founder of the Middlebury Institute. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkpatrick_Sale
10. Professor Jason Sorens — Assistant Professor of Political Science, State University of New York at Buffalo, and founder of the New Hampshire Free State Project.

http://travels.i8.com/photos/The%20Vermont%20Sovereignty%20Declaration.jpg

[ValidusCustodiae]

I find this thread quite interesting. If Libertarianism is based on the principles of the framers, I'd say secession is not only feasible but may be a good idea. This is so even if Ron Paul becomes the next President. There is no reason to resist a state's decision to non-violently secede, and that is one of the core beliefs behind those who favor federal government. Is it ideal? We can talk about it, but I'd say the decision ultimately lies with the state.

The Texas Constitution contains a clause that allows for secession, and their ratification of the U.S. Constitution only came with the provision that they may secede at any time they choose. Fortunately, such a clause is not necessary. Properly interpreted, our legal system should have no problem with a state deciding to become independant.

We don't have to have the same government to interact and be friends!

[SpicyItalian739]

Thomas Naylor even looks like founding father material

http://www.vermontrepublic.org/sites/vermontrepublic.org/files/images/Yankee%20article%20picture_0.jpg

I think we might have a chance of a HUGE boost with these guys if we can convince them to go public and declare that Dr. Paul is the last chance for the Union! That might wake a few people up. They claim that 13% of voters in VT already support succession, but their reasoning is because they're sick of everything that Ron Paul is fighting against.

[DahuiHeeNalu]

I would move to Vermont! but thats if these 08 election are rigged!

[remaxjon]

I haven't really seen this talked about, but there is a growing movement in VT coordinating with a coalition between southern states towards succession. Their stated reasons are essentially that we have strayed too far from our Constitution and that the American empire IS on the verge of collapse, so they want to bring control back to a local level ASAP before the **** hits the fan.

They are calling for a peaceful, non-violent succession *FOR NOW*, but it does seem like they are gaining popularity.

Everything I've heard from the head of this organization sounds EXACTLY like what Dr. Paul has been saying, but the media have been trying to paint them as loons as well.

If they DO gain support, how will this play out with them and Ron Paul?

Allies? Will the Dr. avoid associating with them? Will they consider him not radical ENOUGH?

Will there be an ACTUAL revolt?

I have no clue what all of this means, but the timing does not seem by chance. Something big is going on.


What would Ron Paul do if aliens attacked?

[austin356]

What would Ron Paul do if aliens attacked?


Thats a legitimate function of government.

[SpicyItalian739]

What would Ron Paul do if aliens attacked?

I take it that you're mocking me? You better read into these guys... again they're for EVERYTHING that we're for except they are just advocating taking it one step further... we should convince them to postpone their calling for succession and try to get Ron Paul in first... and if that fails then maybe it is time for more drastic measures

[quickmike]

I haven't really seen this talked about, but there is a growing movement in VT coordinating with a coalition between southern states towards succession. Their stated reasons are essentially that we have strayed too far from our Constitution and that the American empire IS on the verge of collapse, so they want to bring control back to a local level ASAP before the **** hits the fan.

They are calling for a peaceful, non-violent succession *FOR NOW*, but it does seem like they are gaining popularity.

Everything I've heard from the head of this organization sounds EXACTLY like what Dr. Paul has been saying, but the media have been trying to paint them as loons as well.

If they DO gain support, how will this play out with them and Ron Paul?

Allies? Will the Dr. avoid associating with them? Will they consider him not radical ENOUGH?

Will there be an ACTUAL revolt?

I have no clue what all of this means, but the timing does not seem by chance. Something big is going on.

Well........................

I guess Ron would be the president of the 49 or 48 United States instead. :D


Just two less states to have to worry about.


Ive always though disbanding the states would be a good idea anyway. Let them trade with each other if they want and have their own rules.

[Corydoras]

5. Professor Thomas J. DiLorenzo — Professor of Economics, Loyola College, and author of The Real Lincoln. Professor, Ludwig von Mises Intstitute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_DiLorenzo

DiLorenzo has a lot of stuff on Lew Rockwell and is very favorable toward Ron Paul:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo-arch.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo129.html

[Gee]

Nothing wrong with secession. Forced integration (and prohibited secession) into any group is tyranny. I'm quite certain Ron Paul would have no problem letting states secede, although states would have more leeway to run things differently under a Paul administration, so secession would be less likely.

I don't think its got much of a chance in hell of happening though, unless we get another warmonger president who institutes a draft, or something like that.

[Cliff]

I doubt any states will secede in any of our lifetimes. Americans are pretty docile and politically apathetic/ignorant in general. It would take something really radical to... well... radicalize the population. Besides, we still have a simpler, easier solution in voting for Ron. :)

Not in our lifetime is a common excuse.

A revolution is happening in our lifetime. It will either be fought politically or through the barrel of a gun.

Reason I say that is because people will do anything to hold on to the lie of an empire. History teaches us that and don't lie to yourself that it will not happen in your lifetime.

The economy is in shambles and the revolution is coming sooner than later.

[cac1963]

Ron Paul would 100% unequivocally allow any state to secede if the people of that state wanted it. Most anyone (like paul) who is a firm believer and daily reader of Lew Rockwell.com would.

But it's Congress that decides whether war is merited or not, not the president.

[SpicyItalian739]

guys I seriously believe that we have to capitalize on this situation!

Somebody get these guys in contact with the Ron Paul people and see if we can negotiate a mutual alliance of them saying "We plan on dissolving our bonds with Washington UNLESS Ron Paul gets elected." and in turn, Ron Paul saves the Republic for them (and all of us).

Do not dismiss this movement, because its just another example of how true patriots are trying to wake the masses before the crash.


I'm still impressed that this was on CNN... and to hear this guy speak, he was VERY clear, concise, level-headed... he almost seemed surprisingly zen in the face of criticisms by Glenn Beck or whatever his name is.

[Craig_R]

guys I seriously believe that we have to capitalize on this situation!

Somebody get these guys in contact with the Ron Paul people and see if we can negotiate a mutual alliance of them saying "We plan on dissolving our bonds with Washington UNLESS Ron Paul gets elected." and in turn, Ron Paul saves the Republic for them (and all of us).

Do not dismiss this movement, because its just another example of how true patriots are trying to wake the masses before the crash.


I'm still impressed that this was on CNN... and to hear this guy speak, he was VERY clear, concise, level-headed... he almost seemed surprisingly zen in the face of criticisms by Glenn Beck or whatever his name is.

these people know about Ron Paul trust me, some of them are from the mises institute check it out www.mises.org they are already allies, I'd bet one or more of them know Ron Paul personally.

welcome to the movement ;)

:D n00b :D