We must spend our resources fighting the left/right, not each other

[malkusm]

Dear members of RPF,

Back in 2008, we were a unified force. These forums were a breeding ground of ideas and collaboration. Moneybombs were organized, meetups were created, the blimp was born, events were planned. Members offered assistance to others in the area in order to help some of the events get off the ground, and to give rides to other members who were interested in volunteering their time and effort to the cause of liberty.

Today, rather than utilize our collective pool of resources to promote liberty and to fight the false left/right paradigm, we are left largely criticizing each other. Whether it's anarchists and minarchists attacking each other in the philosophy forum, or the atheists and the Christians attacking each other in the religion forum, or the constant fight between truthers and others - all of these battles are trivial and are drawing our attention away from the things that all of us can agree on, and the things that we all should be promoting and presenting to an American people in desperate need of the message of liberty.

To that end, I formally pledge right now that I will not post on the forums in order to attack the specifics of another member's specific views. I will recognize that, despite our differences, we can agree that liberty is a noble political goal to pursue, that smaller government is a unifying theme between us, and I will work with that person to bring the message of liberty to others. While I will continue to read and to educate myself, and may develop opinions that clash with other forum members, I recognize that wasting my effort in a vain attempt to convince other well-read individuals with strong convictions in their beliefs is not the most efficient use of my energy. Instead, I will do more outside of the forums to convince people of the "big things": that big government always interferes with markets and is inefficient, that the Fed creates boom and bust cycles, that the left and the right are both big government, that wars are hurting our national security rather than helping.

Sign below if you agree with these sentiments and are willing to take this pledge.

[CaseyJones]

+1776 and signed

[Old Ducker]

Works for me. Of course if someone is a obvious dumbfuck, I reserve the right to point out it out.

[MRoCkEd]

I agree.

[malkusm]

Works for me. Of course if someone is a obvious dumbfuck, I reserve the right to point out it out.

Sure, if someone says something that is blatantly anti-liberty, we have an obligation to hammer them on it.

That being said, we shouldn't be hammering each other for thinking that roads should be privatized vs. thinking that it's fine to keep roads in the hands of the state. There are MUCH bigger issues to take care of, and we should be spending our time talking about the big issues with others, not talking about the small issues amongst ourselves.

[sgthoma]

signed

[talkingpointes]

(:!dengis

[Michigan11]

Signed let's take over!

[Kotin]

My name is Kotin, and I endorse this message.

[LittleLightShining]

I tried :(

I'll try harder.

[kentucky9]

!!

[GunnyFreedom]

Hear here! You got my vote!

[dr. hfn]

I agree

[FunkBuddha]

I'm down.

[CoreyBowen999]

Signed.

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

Got my vote!

[kaleidoscope eyes]

Amen.. Matt, couldn't agree more.
Put my Jane Hancock on this. :)

[phill4paul]

Sure, if someone says something that is blatantly anti-liberty, we have an obligation to hammer them on it.

Herein lies the problem. Liberty without definition is subjective. Everyone here has a belief in liberty, in that liberty and her sister justices scales lean in their favor of their personal definition it seems to me.


That being said, we shouldn't be hammering each other for thinking that roads should be privatized vs. thinking that it's fine to keep roads in the hands of the state. There are MUCH bigger issues to take care of, and we should be spending our time talking about the big issues with others, not talking about the small issues amongst ourselves.

So if we are to continue in this line of thought lets create a definition amongst ourselves of what liberty means. A definition must be created that is representative of all regardless of personal belief.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with your premise. However, we need a definition and an archetype of the concept of liberty to unite behind.

Otherwise, there will be a continuation of breakdown between camps on the lesser issues.

[Jordan]

(:!dengis



I see what you did there... (: pǝuƃıs

[malkusm]

Herein lies the problem. Liberty without definition is subjective. Everyone here has a belief in liberty, in that liberty and her sister justices scales lean in their favor of their personal definition it seems to me.



So if we are to continue in this line of thought lets create a definition amongst ourselves of what liberty means. A definition must be created that is representative of all regardless of personal belief.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with your premise. However, we need a definition and an archetype of the concept of liberty to unite behind.

Otherwise, there will be a continuation of breakdown between camps on the lesser issues.

I said in the OP that there is a list of BIG issues that all of us here should be able to get behind and promote to others:


Instead, I will do more outside of the forums to convince people of the "big things": that big government always interferes with markets and is inefficient, that the Fed creates boom and bust cycles, that the left and the right are both big government, that wars are hurting our national security rather than helping.


The point is that any of these issues is more important for us to be fighting about than our religious views, or the minute details of our respective "ideal" governments. We can't get to ANY of those "ideals" without first tackling the big things.

[phill4paul]

Gotcha!

1)While I will continue to read and to educate myself, and may develop opinions that clash with other forum members, I recognize that wasting my effort in a vain attempt to convince other well-read individuals with strong convictions in their beliefs is not the most efficient use of my energy.
2)Instead, I will do more outside of the forums to convince people of the "big things": that big government always interferes with markets and is inefficient
3), that the Fed creates boom and bust cycles
4), that the left and the right are both big government
5), that wars are hurting our national security rather than helping.

Agreed.:)

[Cowlesy]

I agree!

[JeNNiF00F00]

Im with yas!

[MsDoodahs]

:D

Signed!

[Michigan11]

Who is next?

[kathy88]

I'm in. May be a little hard sometimes. :)

[CaseyJones]

bump

[RSLudlum]

signed 1/23/2010

[ronpaulhawaii]

bump

[Aratus]

YES!!! now more than ever, as HOUSE 1207 is taken seriously
and perhaps BERNANKE is about to step down in a few weeks!

[CaseyJones]

only 24 signers? 599 views? Come On!!

[dr. hfn]

bump

[someperson]

Signed :) Thank you for the initiative, malkusm! Thanks to all those who have signed, and will sign, as well.

[MelissaWV]

Signed :) Melissa Seli












*on condition that I am certainly still going to nitpick at methods, but not at people or ideas specifically. I don't think signing removes the opportunity for constructive criticism, or else this place won't do any good to anyone.

[CaseyJones]

thank you someperson and Melissa 26 now

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately" Ben Franklin

[LibertiORDeth]

I don't post often, but signed.

[Todd]

Signed

[CaseyJones]

Thank You Luke and Todd 28 now

[JasonC]

Signed :)

[CaseyJones]

Thanks Jason :)

[klamath]

As much as I like the concept I am afraid it will never happen because these forums don't really have common directions, goals or principles. There are many factions that are pitted against each other on many principles. At one time the common goal was the election of RP however now that isn't even a common goal.

[mczerone]

I agree not to be divisive, but I can't promise not to debate the underpinning philosophy of liberty.

I'm very open to persuasion, but ultimately I view one purpose of the forums to help hash out what a proper "liberty" platform consists of through the argumentation process.

We can't be unified on "we need something different" without also being unified on what those goals are. To this end, we need more goal-seeking and coalition building: to sponsor and direct efforts to those projects that are part of a general liberty platform, and which may also be part of a "liberal" or "conservative" platform.

A highly effective tactic for defeating the status quo is to divide and conquer: and the left/right divide is already set for us to pounce upon. Both sides have issues where they wish to see less state involvement, and we need to convince them that we are allies towards those goals.

Pointing out what we need to avoid is good, but we need positive, active goals to unite behind - which is why there was so much more action when RP was running a national campaign than there is now.

So what are some big, national or larger, goals to unite behind? Auditing and ending the Fed, abolishing the slave-taxes (i.e. income, sales, and property taxes), and Promoting Peace between all humans are just a few. Let's choose some project that incorporates these goals, and pledge to help it.

[mczerone]

At one time the common goal was the election of RP however now that isn't even a common goal.

Do you mean because he isn't running at the moment, or because some people don't want him elected? If the latter, do you mind sharing their names so that I may add them to my ignore list?

[malkusm]

I agree not to be divisive, but I can't promise not to debate the underpinning philosophy of liberty.

I'm very open to persuasion, but ultimately I view one purpose of the forums to help hash out what a proper "liberty" platform consists of through the argumentation process.

We can't be unified on "we need something different" without also being unified on what those goals are. To this end, we need more goal-seeking and coalition building: to sponsor and direct efforts to those projects that are part of a general liberty platform, and which may also be part of a "liberal" or "conservative" platform.

A highly effective tactic for defeating the status quo is to divide and conquer: and the left/right divide is already set for us to pounce upon. Both sides have issues where they wish to see less state involvement, and we need to convince them that we are allies towards those goals.

Pointing out what we need to avoid is good, but we need positive, active goals to unite behind - which is why there was so much more action when RP was running a national campaign than there is now.

So what are some big, national or larger, goals to unite behind? Auditing and ending the Fed, abolishing the slave-taxes (i.e. income, sales, and property taxes), and Promoting Peace between all humans are just a few. Let's choose some project that incorporates these goals, and pledge to help it.

I agree with this, and I think that there are plenty of positive goals out there: the election of the liberty candidates who are running, winning the straw poll for Ron Paul at CPAC 2010, staging war and tax protests, promoting the education of liberty in all forums that we can, and getting involved with our own governments locally. They aren't as big and unifying as a presidential race, but are crucial to winning the ideological battle that we face against the proponents of big government, who seemingly have unending resources (propaganda included).

[LittleLightShining]

I agree with this, and I think that there are plenty of positive goals out there: the election of the liberty candidates who are running, winning the straw poll for Ron Paul at CPAC 2010, staging war and tax protests, promoting the education of liberty in all forums that we can, and getting involved with our own governments locally. They aren't as big and unifying as a presidential race, but are crucial to winning the ideological battle that we face against the proponents of big government, who seemingly have unending resources (propaganda included).Absolutely!

[revolutionary8]

Thank you for the thread Malk, and I'm in. :)

I have a tendency to forget sometimes, so I don't mind a reminder either.

[CaseyJones]

woot more signatures :D

[dr. hfn]

bump

[Natalie]

Signed

[CaseyJones]

woohoo one more signature

[mugwop2008]

I agree! GOD GIVEN FREE WILL!

[mugwop2008]

the radio and tv are history!

[wizardwatson]

Works for me. Of course if someone is a obvious dumbfuck, I reserve the right to point out it out.

Herein lies my problem. There are just so many obvious dumbfucks poisoning the minds of others with their lack of ability to think in general.


Sure, if someone says something that is blatantly anti-liberty, we have an obligation to hammer them on it.

That being said, we shouldn't be hammering each other for thinking that roads should be privatized vs. thinking that it's fine to keep roads in the hands of the state. There are MUCH bigger issues to take care of, and we should be spending our time talking about the big issues with others, not talking about the small issues amongst ourselves.

I appreciate your attempt to forge solidarity, and I actually believe a sort of "pledge" is necessary. But there's no accountability in it and the boundary conditions are unsatisfactory for the thought-demons that prowl these boards.

Internal movement destruction "is" the big issue. Lack of awareness of this fact is exacerbating the problem.

I can't sign your pledge but I do wish to help with the underlying problem in whatever way I can.

[georgiaboy]

Thanks for putting this in your sig, malkusm.

Signed.
To Liberty, Peace, and Prosperity!

annnd, bump.

[nayjevin]

To that end, I formally pledge right now that I will not post on the forums in order to attack the specifics of another member's specific views. I will recognize that, despite our differences, we can agree that liberty is a noble political goal to pursue, that smaller government is a unifying theme between us, and I will work with that person to bring the message of liberty to others. While I will continue to read and to educate myself, and may develop opinions that clash with other forum members, I recognize that wasting my effort in a vain attempt to convince other well-read individuals with strong convictions in their beliefs is not the most efficient use of my energy. Instead, I will do more outside of the forums to convince people of the "big things": that big government always interferes with markets and is inefficient, that the Fed creates boom and bust cycles, that the left and the right are both big government, that wars are hurting our national security rather than helping.

This is very nearly my aim. Thanks for writing it. I hope to continue to improve in my ability to focus on the relevant issues, with necessary critique being diplomatic. And I hope to take criticism better as well.

[BuddyRey]

Signed, with gusto!!!

[Thomas]

bump!