Is everyone brainwashed?

[Mike4Freedom]

It just seems like when you present these freedom ideas that people just refuse to acknowledge it. The information is out there to read. People in this movement are just stating facts, but yet some people just don't let this stuff in their reality. They have this brainwashed little box they live in. All is well in my little brainwashed bubble.

It is so frustrating sometimes. The MSM along with the public school system has done a great job at brainwashing people.

I mean, wtf, a lot of people think Licoln was the best president. Are you kidding me?

How can you educate people about this movement when they have thier face in the sand.

Now with Neocon type people I can always talk about healthcare and cap and tax. When it comes to foreign policy I dont bother anymore.

On liberal minded people its almost impossible. They have such a pro State mentality.

I mean a lot of people are starting to wake up. It just sucks when people close to you have thier head in the sand and it could all come crashing down real soon here.

[newbitech]

in a word, yes. I may elaborate more. There is a nice series out on this called architects of control. Highly esoteric, and possibly ridiculous, but very plausible.

[Pauls' Revere]

True, and I learned this during the last campaign. I was absolutely amazed at what worlds people live in. I still get people who think it's great to spend because "the government can just print money" and who think The FED is a government agency. It is a long road to redemption.

[RSLudlum]

Leonard Read of FEE used to say you never know what might spark the light of liberty in a person. It could be as simple as a slight comment in a normal everyday conversation that opens them up to it. You just have to be ready to take advantage of the moment.

Here's the 1978 lecture where he elaborates on it:
YouTube - How to Advance Liberty (by Leonard Read) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UE3JeowaaE)

[TortoiseDream]

You wanna see something really sad? Check out the debate I'm in on another forum over going to war with Iran after posting the article on CFL:

Article:

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=419.

Debate:

http://www.politicalforum.com/latest-world-news/107146-even-nytimes-finally-get-bomb-iran-154.html

:(:(:(

[Reason]

they're called sheeple for a reason

[Bman]

This movement has to be primarily involved with the young. There is headway with older people, but they don't like to think like they once used to and are quite comfortable in their aquired dogma, it requires a lot of effort and time to get them to move an inch.

I like one of the things The Southern Avenger said in one of his more recent videos.

Person "I just can't believe that."

Southern Avenger "I'm well aware of that sir."

There's a lot of stubborn people in the conservative side of politics.

[Reason]

Ignorance is bliss.

[Liberty_Tree]

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/OK_dees.jpg

This is pretty much why.

[Dieseler]

It will get easier as movement becomes more and more restricted.
I think.

[newbitech]

You wanna see something really sad? Check out the debate I'm in on another forum over going to war with Iran after posting the article on CFL:

Article:

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=419.

Debate:

http://www.politicalforum.com/latest-world-news/107146-even-nytimes-finally-get-bomb-iran-154.html

:(:(:(

man....

one thing I will point out tho, the guy is getting hammered by people with a longer posting history then he has. So his little johnny come lately argument to derail his own thread seems to fall apart.

and for your nuclear armed iran being a threat, just remind him that russia had 1000's of nukes and we didn't need to bomb them to stand down the threat.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I tried to convince a co-worker that taxation is theft, and it was the most useless hour of my life I've ever seen. PEOPLE ARE SO BRAINWASHED THEY REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE LOGIC. He even said that getting thrown in jail because you didn't "pay" (aka get stolen from) was perfectly legitimate because the Government must be funded. Man, I'm sure the Mafia would love this guy.

I then asked another co-worker this morning if he didn't hand over some of his private property and got thrown in jail if that was theft he said yes. I then said so you think taxation is theft....He said no, because he chooses to live in this country..."if you don't like it leave," I then said, "How come the Founders didn't leave?"

I GET SO IRRITATED!!!!! These are pretty conservative people mind you. I see hope, but I ultimately don't think anything is going to change without a complete collapse ;/

[TortoiseDream]

I tried to convince a co-worker that taxation is theft, and it was the most useless hour of my life I've ever seen. PEOPLE ARE SO BRAINWASHED THEY REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE LOGIC. He even said that getting thrown in jail because you didn't "pay" (aka get stolen from) was perfectly legitimate because the Government must be funded. Man, I'm sure the Mafia would love this guy.

I then asked another co-worker this morning if he didn't hand over some of his private property and got thrown in jail if that was theft he said yes. I then said so you think taxation is theft....He said no, because he chooses to live in this country..."if you don't like it leave," I then said, "How come the Founders didn't leave?"

I GET SO IRRITATED!!!!! These are pretty conservative people mind you. I see hope, but I ultimately don't think anything is going to change without a complete collapse ;/

lol I feel for you man.

In reply to his "choice" argument, though, you could've remarked how that's just complacency on his part. Slaves for example could be forced to give up personal property to the slaveowners, and if they complied to avoid beatings it doesn't make the situation any better.

[Pauls' Revere]

I tried to convince a co-worker that taxation is theft, and it was the most useless hour of my life I've ever seen. PEOPLE ARE SO BRAINWASHED THEY REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE LOGIC. He even said that getting thrown in jail because you didn't "pay" (aka get stolen from) was perfectly legitimate because the Government must be funded. Man, I'm sure the Mafia would love this guy.

I then asked another co-worker this morning if he didn't hand over some of his private property and got thrown in jail if that was theft he said yes. I then said so you think taxation is theft....He said no, because he chooses to live in this country..."if you don't like it leave," I then said, "How come the Founders didn't leave?"

I GET SO IRRITATED!!!!! These are pretty conservative people mind you. I see hope, but I ultimately don't think anything is going to change without a complete collapse ;/

I hope it's the collapse of our political system and a third party rises up!
If it has to happen that way that ultimately would be the free market working out the kinks and taking out the trash so to speak. Most people flat out believe it cant happen here mentality followed by not-in-my-backyard (NIMBY).

[lynnf]

It just seems like when you present these freedom ideas that people just refuse to acknowledge it. The information is out there to read. People in this movement are just stating facts, but yet some people just don't let this stuff in their reality. They have this brainwashed little box they live in. All is well in my little brainwashed bubble.

It is so frustrating sometimes. The MSM along with the public school system has done a great job at brainwashing people.

I mean, wtf, a lot of people think Licoln was the best president. Are you kidding me?

How can you educate people about this movement when they have thier face in the sand.

Now with Neocon type people I can always talk about healthcare and cap and tax. When it comes to foreign policy I dont bother anymore.

On liberal minded people its almost impossible. They have such a pro State mentality.

I mean a lot of people are starting to wake up. It just sucks when people close to you have thier head in the sand and it could all come crashing down real soon here.

brainwashed by government schools, propagandized by lamestream media, drugged out by doctors and water supply (websearch "fluoride"), or soy (estrogen), lied to by the government at all levels


why wouldn't anybody be confused?

lynn

[Mike4Freedom]

I tried to convince a co-worker that taxation is theft, and it was the most useless hour of my life I've ever seen. PEOPLE ARE SO BRAINWASHED THEY REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE LOGIC. He even said that getting thrown in jail because you didn't "pay" (aka get stolen from) was perfectly legitimate because the Government must be funded. Man, I'm sure the Mafia would love this guy.

I then asked another co-worker this morning if he didn't hand over some of his private property and got thrown in jail if that was theft he said yes. I then said so you think taxation is theft....He said no, because he chooses to live in this country..."if you don't like it leave," I then said, "How come the Founders didn't leave?"

I GET SO IRRITATED!!!!! These are pretty conservative people mind you. I see hope, but I ultimately don't think anything is going to change without a complete collapse ;/

That sums it up. The thing that gets me is people even get mad when you suggest such a thing.

I love it when they say the government wont have any money without federal taxes. I respond with how it all goes to paying off interest on the national debt.

That schools are funded 99% by property taxes. Tolls pay for interstates. Your state income tax pays for welfare in that state, etc, etc, etc.

Some peoples eyes open wide up when I say this and I can see they get it. Then some are so brainwashed were they actually get angry and think I am making this up.

I mean if you told me about all this 10 years ago I might of not believed you. I would of looked it up thought at least. I know a lot of people, out of everyone I know only about 5 have true conservative views.

I am just trying to up that to 10. It's not easy.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

It just seems like when you present these freedom ideas that people just refuse to acknowledge it. The information is out there to read. People in this movement are just stating facts, but yet some people just don't let this stuff in their reality. They have this brainwashed little box they live in. All is well in my little brainwashed bubble.

It is so frustrating sometimes. The MSM along with the public school system has done a great job at brainwashing people.

I mean, wtf, a lot of people think Licoln was the best president. Are you kidding me?

How can you educate people about this movement when they have thier face in the sand.

Now with Neocon type people I can always talk about healthcare and cap and tax. When it comes to foreign policy I dont bother anymore.

On liberal minded people its almost impossible. They have such a pro State mentality.

I mean a lot of people are starting to wake up. It just sucks when people close to you have thier head in the sand and it could all come crashing down real soon here.

A true American Movement returns Americans back to a Truth. No experts are needed to manipulate Americans towards this Truth because it is self evident, needs no explanation or definition, and is unalienable, reduces bipartisanly to be understood by the human soul (conscience).
All other movements or revolutions should be considered false.

[MelissaWV]

No, not everyone. The moment you start believing everyone is brainwashed, the moment you stop trying to teach. If most people are ambivalent to the world's most important issues, then so be it, but not all. Not by a longshot.

Then there are some who might not be quite as excited about an issue, or quite as aware of what's going on, but they know. In the back of their minds, they know.

[Brian4Liberty]

People are resistant to change. They are also "conditioned". Combine the two, and it is hard for them to listen to different ideas.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

That sums it up. The thing that gets me is people even get mad when you suggest such a thing.

I love it when they say the government wont have any money without federal taxes. I respond with how it all goes to paying off interest on the national debt.

That schools are funded 99% by property taxes. Tolls pay for interstates. Your state income tax pays for welfare in that state, etc, etc, etc.

Some peoples eyes open wide up when I say this and I can see they get it. Then some are so brainwashed were they actually get angry and think I am making this up.

I mean if you told me about all this 10 years ago I might of not believed you. I would of looked it up thought at least. I know a lot of people, out of everyone I know only about 5 have true conservative views.

I am just trying to up that to 10. It's not easy.

In His explanation of tyranny, Jesus Christ paired a tax collector (pimp) with a prostitute (tax payer). If the people have always been disadvantaged, as they have always been so forever to tyranny, then why would one expect them not to be at a disadvantage today?
The people do have a great power, but it is very narrow in scope. The people lose their power when they believe it to be greater than it is.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

No, not everyone. The moment you start believing everyone is brainwashed, the moment you stop trying to teach. If most people are ambivalent to the world's most important issues, then so be it, but not all. Not by a longshot.

Then there are some who might not be quite as excited about an issue, or quite as aware of what's going on, but they know. In the back of their minds, they know.

But a self evident and unalienable Truth does not need to be taught, Melissa.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

People are resistant to change. They are also "conditioned". Combine the two, and it is hard for them to listen to different ideas.

Likewise, we have become modern sophists.
The self evident and unalienable "Truth" declared by our Founding Fathers will never change just as all natural laws never change. That gave us something concrete to found a nation. If our Civil Purpose supercedes the legal precedence of all past traditions and as yet to happen future occurences, then government becomes a "necessary tyranny" set up to serve for the sake of the people with the emphasis placed on the people.

[kahless]

Besides the news media and public school system, people have under estimated the brainwashing power of our entertainment industry - Hollywood has had on them. History has proven Joseph McCarthy right and that we have lost the battle.

The Soviet Union may have broken up and the wall came down but ultimately they won against the west since we are becoming what they were.

[TortoiseDream]

man....

one thing I will point out tho, the guy is getting hammered by people with a longer posting history then he has. So his little johnny come lately argument to derail his own thread seems to fall apart.

and for your nuclear armed iran being a threat, just remind him that russia had 1000's of nukes and we didn't need to bomb them to stand down the threat.

these people are totally lost. i have tried to have patience with them but man, effing forget it. the entire psychology of these people is just complete insane and warped. i think next time i might try to make a smaller point rather than change their foreign policy views entirely lol. that was a big mistake.

[heavenlyboy34]

You wanna see something really sad? Check out the debate I'm in on another forum over going to war with Iran after posting the article on CFL:

Article:

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=419 (http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=419).

Debate:

http://www.politicalforum.com/latest-world-news/107146-even-nytimes-finally-get-bomb-iran-154.html (http://www.politicalforum.com/latest-world-news/107146-even-nytimes-finally-get-bomb-iran-154.html)

:(:(:(

I have a new respect for you after reading through your debate, sir. Nicely done, even though your opponents were less than civil.:cool:

[angelatc]

Some peoples eyes open wide up when I say this and I can see they get it. Then some are so brainwashed were they actually get angry and think I am making this up.



Some people just flat out refuse to admit they might be wrong. They won't bother to listen to your logic for that very simple reason. And some people have other agendas. They are only interested in power and control - they have no interest in freedom, and they never will.

[TortoiseDream]

I have a new respect for you after reading through your debate, sir. Nicely done, even though your opponents were less than civil.:cool:

I discuss with you guys about how much freedom we should have (lol) I had forgotten what it's like to talk to a neocon!

[TNforPaul45]

Not only are people brainwashed, but they are also intellectually lazy. This is due in part to the way our education system has declined over the years.

We have went from a society of thinkers (in the schools) to a society of regurgitators (in the schools).

A nation of parrots, repeating whatever our parents or the tv tells us to think. Once the average person has chosen a side (or had a side chosen for them), politically, they are remiss to crawl out of that foxhole. That takes effort. Effort is painful. And pain caused by hard work is frowned upon in this easy, push button society.

It usually takes something shocking to wake a person up, something that hits close to home. I also tend to believe that there is a large chunk of people that will NEVER wake up. The most apt analogy here would be to the "Left Behind" religious storyline, where the characters spend all 9 books constantly trying to wake people up. Some are chosen to wake up and fight for truth, some just stay in darkness until the end.

[benhaskins]

My understanding is that economic chaos will produce significant(radical) polictal change. However, the change that results is not always desirable for the freedom movement.

I feel that some of the more extreme ideas of freedom will always be percieved as unpopular even if "freedom" is what is being emphisized.

I think that Rand Paul is onto something when he stresses a balanced budget and term limits. Issues like that can bind people together who are frustrated with the direction of the pubilc policy within the federal government, especially when you consider the national debt and the perceived failure of the federal government.

Sometimes complexity creates confusion. I hope Rand Paul is successful in his campaign in Kentucky. I believe this will be a big step in the right direction.

[RCA]

in a word, yes. I may elaborate more. There is a nice series out on this called architects of control. Highly esoteric, and possibly ridiculous, but very plausible.

Is this what you were referring to?

http://www.architectsofcontrol.com/

[InterestedParticipant]

they're called sheeple for a reason
It's "we," NOT "they." To think it only applies to others is to be deluded.

[Danke]

It just seems like when you present these freedom ideas that people just refuse to acknowledge it. The information is out there to read. People in this movement are just stating facts, but yet some people just don't let this stuff in their reality. They have this brainwashed little box they live in. All is well in my little brainwashed bubble.

It is so frustrating sometimes. The MSM along with the public school system has done a great job at brainwashing people.


How can you educate people about this movement when they have thier face in the sand.

I mean a lot of people are starting to wake up. It just sucks when people close to you have thier head in the sand and it could all come crashing down real soon here.

They populate the forum too:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2486398#post2486398

[The Deacon]

We are thoroughly brainwashed. When I first started reading the truth about Lincoln and FDR, it made me extremely uncomfortable. It's tough to break out of that and if you aren't open-minded then there is serious risk of returning to the status quo.

[Travlyr]

I'm not brainwashed. End the Fed!

[Mike4Freedom]

We are thoroughly brainwashed. When I first started reading the truth about Lincoln and FDR, it made me extremely uncomfortable. It's tough to break out of that and if you aren't open-minded then there is serious risk of returning to the status quo.

Yeah when I first read about what Lincoln really was it was uncomfortable reading it. Now its like, no shit lincoln was a bad president.

Thank God for Tom Woods. Reading his books have really helped to reveal the truth to me.

[surf]

WAR should be an issue that we can sway people with

edit: not the neocon wing of the republican party - with them it must be finances, but for those of us that have friends that "voted for change," this is our issue. remember that they will counter with, "well, he's only been in office one year" and remember this in another 6-months, and next year.

edit again: keep reminding them next year and the year after what they said about "he's only been in office..."

it will take time to convince these people that they made a terrible mistake and were fooled. but i believe it will happen.

[Scofield]

We are thoroughly brainwashed. When I first started reading the truth about Lincoln and FDR, it made me extremely uncomfortable. It's tough to break out of that and if you aren't open-minded then there is serious risk of returning to the status quo.

I find it to be the complete opposite.

I've been introduced to some pretty messed up information/thoughts, and they never go away (or at least haven't yet). I just can't unlearn something that I've committed to my memory.

In fact, I would love to go back and unlearn some of the information I have learned. I was a lot happier (ignorance is bliss) back then. I had never been depressed before I became privy to the thoughts I now have; I went 20 years (I am 21 now) without ever being truly depressed, now I find myself depressed quite often.

[squarepusher]

Politics is like religion, everyone thinks they are right :)

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I find it to be the complete opposite.

I've been introduced to some pretty messed up information/thoughts, and they never go away (or at least haven't yet). I just can't unlearn something that I've committed to my memory.

In fact, I would love to go back and unlearn some of the information I have learned. I was a lot happier (ignorance is bliss) back then. I had never been depressed before I became privy to the thoughts I now have; I went 20 years (I am 21 now) without ever being truly depressed, now I find myself depressed quite often.


“It is natural for man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts... For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” -- Patrick Henry

[Andrew-Austin]

It just seems like when you present these freedom ideas that people just refuse to acknowledge it. The information is out there to read. People in this movement are just stating facts, but yet some people just don't let this stuff in their reality. They have this brainwashed little box they live in. All is well in my little brainwashed bubble.

It is so frustrating sometimes. The MSM along with the public school system has done a great job at brainwashing people.

"Brainwashed" is the wrong word to use, it doesn't tell you anything. It conjures up images of those BS conspiracy theories about mind control. To just carelessly use it is to deny yourself the knowledge of what might be going on with the mind/ego of any one particular individual.

Let me try and provide a couple examples as to what could be going on other than the almost mystical explanation of "brainwashing".

1. By accepting the status quo and mainstream norms life can feel more comfortable. The social pressure to 'fit in' can be valued more than honest inquiry because it doesn't lead one to scary/uncomfortable truths. It can take a bit of courage just to admit how wrongly your society and country have gotten things. What does it feel like to be a fringe minority on an important issue? If a liberal considered the idea that is was heaps of various government interventions in the economy that fucked things up instead of free markets, well that is just one disturbing realization that comes with a lot of disturbing implications.

2. Some people simply have their ego invested in their political notions, their views can be ascribed to a long series of emotional/psychological events rather than recognition of certain facts.

Just two factors among many that I won't bother listing, that might apply to certain people you encounter. It can also be more complex than just one explanation per person, there can be a host of factors at play influencing an individual. You get the idea.





How can you educate people about this movement when they have their face in the sand.


Well for starters you can't reach everybody. If you have been trying to convert the wrong people who are way too wrapped up in their own little belief system regarding politics, then you have been going about things wrong. And if you expect to change people's minds regarding certain issues just in the span of one convo/debate, then that also might be the wrong approach as well.



I mean a lot of people are starting to wake up. It just sucks when people close to you have their head in the sand and it could all come crashing down real soon here.

If you are trying to convert people close to you (and thus have plenty of time to do so), don't try and do it in one sitting. You have to plant seeds, learn to word things so as to appeal to them, in email exchanges give them pro-liberty references, give your take on news articles, etc etc. And one thing you definitely shouldn't do is to come off as confrontational when conversing in person.

You can try and bombard them by taking the approach of "well there is X, Y, and Z so if you think otherwise you are whats wrong with this country", but that never works.

And learn to ask them good questions instead of letting them put you on the defensive so you do all the talking. You might know a lot, but sometimes its more effective to illustrate how little they know by asking questions.

For instance if a neocon says something like: "the terrorists hate us for our freedoms". You can ask "where did you get that idea, how do you know that is true?" And go on like "well how come they never attacked us when we more free as a nation and less imperialistic"?

If they are in this process being completely dishonest and your approach has been good, you should politely as you can say you think they are being dishonest and spend your time doing something more productive.

And remember you can't shove the red pill down their throats, you can only influence them in to wanting it.



You wanna see something really sad? Check out the debate I'm in on another forum over going to war with Iran after posting the article on CFL:

Article:

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=419.

Debate:

http://www.politicalforum.com/latest...-iran-154.html



From what I read (about a page) you were doing great in that thread. You might not have persuaded that dude you were arguing with, but I'm sure you shook up some minds and perhaps swayed some spectators.

[MelissaWV]

Politics is like religion, everyone thinks they are right :)

Hm. I don't think I'm necessarily "right" about either one, so I don't bludgeon others with my beliefs. Maybe there IS a direct correlation there, between how one treats one's religion (or lack thereof) and how one treats one's political views. Zealots will be zealots?

[FreeTraveler]

John Taylor Gatto has the best take on modern education that I've found. And to answer the OP, yes, everyone is brainwashed.

The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher (http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html?seenIEPage=1) by John Taylor Gatto, New York State Teacher of the Year, 1991



The first lesson I teach is: "Stay in the class where you belong."

The second lesson I teach kids is to turn on and off like a light switch.

The third lesson I teach you is to surrender your will to a predestined chain of command.

The fourth lesson I teach is that only I determine what curriculum you will study. (Rather, I enforce decisions transmitted by the people who pay me).

In lesson five I teach that your self-respect should depend on an observer's measure of your worth.

In lesson six I teach children that they are being watched. I keep each student under constant surveillance and so do my colleagues.

[InterestedParticipant]

The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher (http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html?seenIEPage=1) by John Taylor Gatto, New York State Teacher of the Year, 1991

Good to see people here reading and following Gatto. The man is incredible.

[TortoiseDream]

holy fucking shit

http://www.politicalforum.com/political-opinions-beliefs/106126-why-shouldnt-iran-get-nuclear-power.html#post1984728

read what this guy says about bullying other countries

[heavenlyboy34]

John Taylor Gatto has the best take on modern education that I've found. And to answer the OP, yes, everyone is brainwashed.

The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher (http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html?seenIEPage=1) by John Taylor Gatto, New York State Teacher of the Year, 1991

wonderful piece, thank you very much. :cool:

[InterestedParticipant]

Here's a very relevant interview of the author of a book on the subject of Mind Control (part 1 of 9 is posted below).

YouTube - Walter Bowart - Operation Mind Control part 1/9 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuZ069smaYU)

[newbitech]

holy fucking shit

http://www.politicalforum.com/political-opinions-beliefs/106126-why-shouldnt-iran-get-nuclear-power.html#post1984728 (http://www.politicalforum.com/political-opinions-beliefs/106126-why-shouldnt-iran-get-nuclear-power.html#post1984728)

read what this guy says about bullying other countries


Iran doesn't need nuclear power, they have plenty of oil.

Right, we don't need jobs making 25-30 bucks and hour when we can live off jobs making 15 dollars an hour. Ok USA.

Oh, and the only way to get the bully off your back is to kick him in the balls and uppercut him in the nose when he doubles over, then hook him in the jaw when he reels back, and then kick him square in the arse hole when he spins around.

That is what that guy is asking for, and I suspect that is what he is going to get.