Shoveling snow and property rights

[Mike4Freedom]

This is a question I am curious about. In the house that I live in and own I have sidewalks in the front. I am required by law to shovel thme or face fine and possible liabilty. I shovel them anyways so the mailman does not slip(I go out the garage)

If you go by property rights there should be no law requiring you to shovel snow on your property.

Its a courtesy I dont mind doing, but if I am no vacation and no one is here why should I get a fine. Its my property.

[manny229]

Although I live in a rural area without sidewalks, I've always wondered about this aren't sidewalks public property?

[mczerone]

If you contracted for postal delivery directly to your home, part of that contract could require you to maintain a path for such delivery.

If you contracted with your neighborhood to maintain a section of sidewalk, you could be held responsible for doing so.

I don't get what you're having trouble with.

[FrankRep]

Shoveling Snow From Sidewalks (http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/15/realestate/shoveling-snow-from-sidewalks.html?pagewanted=1)


NY Times
December 15, 1996



'There are two basic rules,'' said Ross Sandler, director of the Center for New York City Law, a nonprofit educational organization at New York Law School. ''The first rule is that the city is responsible for the condition of the public streets and sidewalks.'' And that, Mr. Sandler said, includes the responsibility for removing snow from public sidewalks.

But, he said, ''the second rule is that the city requires individual land owners to clear the snow from sidewalks abutting their property.'' And he added that the courts have upheld the right of local governments to require property owners to maintain public sidewalks adjoining their property.

Indeed, most homeowners -- whether in city or suburbs -- realize they have some responsibility for shoveling their sidewalk after a snowstorm.
..


SOURCE:
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/15/realestate/shoveling-snow-from-sidewalks.html?pagewanted=1

[mczerone]

Shoveling Snow From Sidewalks (http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/15/realestate/shoveling-snow-from-sidewalks.html?pagewanted=1)


NY Times
December 15, 1996



'There are two basic rules,'' said Ross Sandler, director of the Center for New York City Law, a nonprofit educational organization at New York Law School. ''The first rule is that the city is responsible for the condition of the public streets and sidewalks.'' And that, Mr. Sandler said, includes the responsibility for removing snow from public sidewalks.

But, he said, ''the second rule is that the city requires individual land owners to clear the snow from sidewalks abutting their property.'' And he added that the courts have upheld the right of local governments to require property owners to maintain public sidewalks adjoining their property.

Indeed, most homeowners -- whether in city or suburbs -- realize they have some responsibility for shoveling their sidewalk after a snowstorm.
..


SOURCE:
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/15/realestate/shoveling-snow-from-sidewalks.html?pagewanted=1

So? What are you trying to say by quoting this? The OP was inquiring about how these 'duties' might arise for a strict private property regime, not the current NY State Law on the subject.

In my neighborhood the sidewalks abutting private homes are about 60% shoveled for a light snow (up to 2"), but the "public" area sidewalks (abutting parks or reserved land) aren't ever shoveled but for the kindness of local individuals with 4-wheeler-plows or heavy duty snow-blowers, and then not ever unless there is more than 6" of snow.

What happens when "the City" doesn't fulfill it's contractual obligations? Who is to blame, and who bears the costs? And why wasn't this part of the initial "contract"?

[ItsTime]

Well simply its not your property.

[FrankRep]

So? What are you trying to say by quoting this?

For some reason I read it as "Am I required by law to shovel show?"

Opps.

[dannno]

Well if the city was in charge they'd have to raise taxes.

They should just ask you to do it, and if you don't, then the mailman skips your house and you have to go pickup your mail.

[Danke]

I wonder if the sidewalk is still on your property, but is technically an easement that was granted by the previous owner. Not having protested that when you purchased the property, that agreement is probably still binding, that you clear the snow.

[Mike4Freedom]

deleted

[John E]

The better question to ask is:

If you shovel it, and someone slips and falls, what is your liability versus if you hadn't shoveled at all?

[Valli6]

I am also required to shovel the walks or be fined, but I can't recall a single case of anyone ever actually getting fined for not shoveling. Maybe they only hassle you if someone els complains repeatedly or you annoy "city hall"? It's my understanding that if anyone slips on my walkway or sidewalk, I am the one they can sue. Also the mailman can refuse to deliver.

A book I had read on landscape design, warned that most of the time, you don't even own all the property on your home's side of the sidewalk. Although it varies, towns typically retain ownership of several feet of the space on your side of the walk, in case they need it later. I found this hard to believe, but when I compared measurements of my front yard from a professional survey, to measurements I did myself, sure enough a good 6 feet of space (on my side of walk) is not included in the official size of my lot. They don't care if you use this area, want you to maintain it, but can legally change/use it later if they so chose.

On the other hand, when the underground water pipe broke on "their" side of the walk, the water company people assured me that the pipe was my responsibility -$3700 to repair. (I'm referring to the pipe/valve that branches off to bring water to my house).

[Todd]

I am also required to shovel the walks or be fined,

Yet if the government doesn't get to YOUR street in a week, they don't pay a dime or suffer any consequence. They are allowed to us "solar" cleaning techniques if they can't get around to it....but we get fines for our own private property.


This reminds me of the hilarious political cartoon yesterday that stated the same thing.