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Knightskye
01-05-2010, 01:56 AM
http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2010/01/04/profile-away/


I like what David Harsanyi writes:

It is an unavoidable fact that these "bad people" tend to come from certain places and subscribe to a certain religious affiliation. Focus on them.

From the evidence, it is clear that it is impossible to cover every base, but the wasted billions shaking down the average passenger offers little more than psychological comfort.

And comfort in knowing that no special interest will complain.

Harsanyi goes on to point out an interesting point from Bob Poole at the Reason Foundation:

[T]his failure reflects the flawed thinking of aviation security policy, namely a fixation "on keeping bad things -- as opposed to bad people -- off of airplanes.

The anti-profiling people are usually worried that terrorist profiling will lead the TSA slippery slope to profiling based on skin color. But that hasn't been the case with the Israeli airline, El-Al, which aggressively profiles for terrorism.

Stossel wants the "bad people" kept off airplanes.

By the way, I wonder if Stossel also supports Bob Poole's idea of "government-issued ID cards" to board a plane.
http://reason.com/archives/2009/12/29/are-we-going-to-get-serious-ab


Lower-risk people would be those with active government-issued security clearances and anyone who joined a risk-based “trusted traveler” program by passing an FBI background check and getting a biometric ID card.

That doesn't sound libertarian to me.

But reductio ad hitlerum, right? How were Jewish people treated in German airports in the '40s?

Romulus
01-05-2010, 07:02 AM
so mr. stossels folksy nice guy schtick is nothing more than fox repackaging some good ol collectivism.

NYgs23
01-05-2010, 09:32 AM
Given that airlines would be free to profile in a private market, it is difficult to see how you can be against profiling per se. The problem, as usual, is govt monopolization of airline security.

DirtMcGirt
01-05-2010, 10:19 AM
Stossel is still the man; he has done a lot for the liberty movement over the years and trying to be a little bit practical doesn't make him a hypocrite...

flying has seriously become a pain in the ass... tsa is now just throwing darts to see what works and to give the public the impression that they are doing something...

I have two "friends" who were on the no fly list- one is a neighbor who has the same last name as a Ireland suspect. He corresponded w/Homeland security so he could get off the "list" for around 2 months. When they finally send him a card so he could be removed from the list Homeland security spelled his name wrong; Idiots.
My other friend is a female who goes by Ali, instead of Alisan;needless to say she gets pulled out of lines all the time.

IMO, They really need to become more attentive of passenger drop off and pick up security.

Stary Hickory
01-05-2010, 12:04 PM
Given that airlines would be free to profile in a private market, it is difficult to see how you can be against profiling per se. The problem, as usual, is govt monopolization of airline security.

This is correct 100% Dereuglate Airlines let them, and by proxy their customers ,determine what security measures are acceptable. If you don't approve of the security methods of a private airline company, you would have the option not to utilize it.

Personally I care less about security, and really it wouldn't bother me if they stopped randomly checking old folks and women....I would be ok with it. So the answer as usual is let the people decide what measures are appropriate or not. Get the government out of it, so we can do away with the one size fits all mentality. It obviously does not work for everyone.

Romulus
01-05-2010, 12:12 PM
Given that airlines would be free to profile in a private market,

problem is, he doesnt offer that solution.

Deborah K
01-05-2010, 12:36 PM
Collectivism:

YouTube - -DVD Version: INTRO - Individualism vs Collectivism (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMYicq_SN1E)

angelatc
01-05-2010, 01:23 PM
problem is, he doesnt offer that solution.

He has in the past.

I suspect it's like the Fair Tax / No Tax arguments. No Tax is the best solution, but Fair Tax is better than what we have now.

Knightskye
01-05-2010, 01:48 PM
Given that airlines would be free to profile in a private market, it is difficult to see how you can be against profiling per se. The problem, as usual, is govt monopolization of airline security.

It doesn't mean Stossel has to voice support for profiling people.

Deborah K
01-05-2010, 01:50 PM
It doesn't mean Stossel has to voice support for profiling people.

Here's a question for you: If a group of white women were boarding plans and blowing them up, would you consider profiling white women racist?

Romulus
01-05-2010, 01:57 PM
He has in the past.


he's only as good as his latest episode. i'll wait to hear his solution outside of racial profiling via TSA.

Brian4Liberty
01-05-2010, 03:32 PM
Deja Vue all over again... This is a duplicate thread.

And just to clarify, Stossel did not say racial profile, he just said profile. Big difference. Racial profiling would be useless for screening airline passengers. El Al is very big on profiling, but they do not use racial profiling.

Deborah K
01-05-2010, 03:38 PM
For the record - I don't have a problem with racial profiling. If a bunch of white women were blowing up airplanes, I'd be okay with being profiled. I wouldn't like it, but I understand that if you want to find a needle in a haystack - get a magnet.

daviddee
01-05-2010, 04:14 PM
...

BlackTerrel
01-05-2010, 07:02 PM
I usually like Stossel but he is way off here... shame.

BlackTerrel
01-05-2010, 07:03 PM
For the record - I don't have a problem with racial profiling. If a bunch of white women were blowing up airplanes, I'd be okay with being profiled. I wouldn't like it, but I understand that if you want to find a needle in a haystack - get a magnet.

What race are "they"? 9/11 was Arabs, this Christmas guy was black. We profile those two groups and they'll use Asians or whites.

You can't profile a religion or political belief.

Knightskye
01-06-2010, 02:13 PM
Here's a question for you: If a group of white women were boarding plans and blowing them up, would you consider profiling white women racist?

You're using a hypothetical question.

We know why people want to blow us up. Therefore we know how to stop them. The answer isn't government-mandated profiling, because that would make them dislike us more.

literatim
01-06-2010, 05:33 PM
Ron Paul suggested we profile people from certain countries as well.

Deborah K
01-06-2010, 06:54 PM
What race are "they"? 9/11 was Arabs, this Christmas guy was black. We profile those two groups and they'll use Asians or whites.

You can't profile a religion or political belief.

Oh yes you can. You can profile just about any behavior.

Deborah K
01-06-2010, 06:58 PM
You're using a hypothetical question.

We know why people want to blow us up. Therefore we know how to stop them. The answer isn't government-mandated profiling, because that would make them dislike us more.

As long as TSA exists, we have to work with what we have. I agree that our incompetent foreign policies got us in this mess, but as long as it remains unfixed, we have to keep commuters safe. I am opposed to the body scans, but I am not opposed to bomb sniffing dogs and metal detectors. I am not opposed to armed passengers and pilots, and I am not opposed to profiling.

BlackTerrel
01-06-2010, 08:37 PM
Ron Paul suggested we profile people from certain countries as well.

Link?

Knightskye
01-06-2010, 10:52 PM
Link?

http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2007/12/29/ron-pauls-disgraceful-ad/

BlackTerrel
01-06-2010, 11:27 PM
http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2007/12/29/ron-pauls-disgraceful-ad/

Thank you. Although I do think that is different from "profiling Muslims" or whatever Stossel is suggesting here.

Knightskye
01-06-2010, 11:42 PM
Thank you. Although I do think that is different from "profiling Muslims" or whatever Stossel is suggesting here.

Sure, but I think it's far from the "I want to trade with people and travel" classic Dr. Paul answer.

jmdrake
01-07-2010, 03:49 PM
Here's a question for you: If a group of white women were boarding plans and blowing them up, would you consider profiling white women racist?

Almost all mass school shooters have been young white males. A lot of people here called Van Jones racist for pointing that out. And for the record I don't like Van Jones.

The whole war on terror is a joke. If this latest attack doesn't prove that conclusively I don't know what will. The terrorist was let on without any ID at all for crying out loud! Plus his dad had already ratted him out. No "profiling" was necessary. Just following what should be common sense standard protocol.

Deborah K
01-07-2010, 04:17 PM
Almost all mass school shooters have been young white males. A lot of people here called Van Jones racist for pointing that out. And for the record I don't like Van Jones.

The whole war on terror is a joke. If this latest attack doesn't prove that conclusively I don't know what will. The terrorist was let on without any ID at all for crying out loud! Plus his dad had already ratted him out. No "profiling" was necessary. Just following what should be common sense standard protocol.

I don't like Van Jones either but he's not a racist for pointing that fact out.

The war on terror may be a joke, but terrorism isn't. Profile!

jmdrake
01-07-2010, 06:50 PM
I don't like Van Jones either but he's not a racist for pointing that fact out.


So should we profile all the young white males going to suburban schools?



The war on terror may be a joke, but terrorism isn't. Profile!

Profiling without taking the more basic steps is a joke. It means nothing if well dressed man can talk someone onto a plane without a passport. The "profile" wouldn't have done jack. This is like having airbags in a car where nobody wear a seatbelt. Or it's like writing the combination to your safe on the front of it because you're afraid you'll forget it. What's the point? A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and if people aren't already following basic protocols then advocating additional ones makes zero sense. It's funny how none of these "experts" ever recommend firing anybody, or better holding people civilly liable for their "incompetence" if we are indeed dealing with incompetence.

libertythor
01-07-2010, 07:53 PM
Something tells me that if airline security was still in the hands of the free market that airlines would already have explosives sniffers and air analysis chambers in the jetways. It would be in their interest to have such. Or at least the local air port authority!