Are you innocent?

[LibertyWorker]

Are you innocent?

If a terrorist blows up a plane full of Americans is he killing innocent people?

The American government takes the fruits of your labor and you don’t resist.

Then the government takes that money overthrows governments. It props up dictators who oppress and kills their own people. Our government invades other nations assassinates elected leaders bombs and kills people who have nothing except their lives and a dirt hut.

All these things are done in your name and in your countries name.

If you don’t resist with every fiber of your being what this government is doing.

You are just as guilty as if you pulled the trigger yourself or flipped the switch to drop the bomb.

So are you innocent?

[Chaohinon]

You can't blame a rape or theft victim for succumbing to the rape/theft, given that resistance could just make things worse. Better to walk away with your life intact than to die for your wallet.

If the mugger spends my cash on weapons that he'll use to hurt other people, I'm not responsible.

[Danke]

Are you innocent?

If a terrorist blows up a plane full of Americans is he killing innocent people?

The American government takes the fruits of your labor and you don’t resist.

Then the government takes that money overthrows governments. It props up dictators who oppress and kills their own people. Our government invades other nations assassinates elected leaders bombs and kills people who have nothing except their lives and a dirt hut.

All these things are done in your name and in your countries name.

If you don’t resist with every fiber of your being what this government is doing.

You are just as guilty as if you pulled the trigger yourself or flipped the switch to drop the bomb.

So are you innocent?

Especially those Chinese workers, for working for low wages, selling us cheap shit and not resisting their government in buying our debt.

I blame them the most.

Heck, every citizen of every country that does business with America is guilty!!!

[DjLoTi]

Technically it's 'our' government, but the individuals in our country are not responsible for the decisions made by other individuals. The responsibility lies only with the individual.

[LibertyWorker]

You can't blame a rape or theft victim for succumbing to the rape/theft, given that resistance could just make things worse. Better to walk away with your life intact than to die for your wallet.

If the mugger spends my cash on weapons that he'll use to hurt other people, I'm not responsible.

yeah but you know the mugger is coming and he It keeps coming back for years. and you keep letting yourself get mugged.

[DjLoTi]

yeah but you know the mugger is coming and he It keeps coming back for years. and you keep letting yourself get mugged.

That may be the case with certain government officials but it is not the case with individual Americans.

[Dunedain]

Are you innocent?

If a terrorist blows up a plane full of Americans is he killing innocent people?

The American government takes the fruits of your labor and you don’t resist.

Then the government takes that money overthrows governments. It props up dictators who oppress and kills their own people. Our government invades other nations assassinates elected leaders bombs and kills people who have nothing except their lives and a dirt hut.

All these things are done in your name and in your countries name.

If you don’t resist with every fiber of your being what this government is doing.

You are just as guilty as if you pulled the trigger yourself or flipped the switch to drop the bomb.

So are you innocent?


I didn't vote republican or democrat in the last election...so, yes, I'm innocent.

[lynnf]

Are you innocent?

If a terrorist blows up a plane full of Americans is he killing innocent people?

The American government takes the fruits of your labor and you don’t resist.

Then the government takes that money overthrows governments. It props up dictators who oppress and kills their own people. Our government invades other nations assassinates elected leaders bombs and kills people who have nothing except their lives and a dirt hut.

All these things are done in your name and in your countries name.

If you don’t resist with every fiber of your being what this government is doing.

You are just as guilty as if you pulled the trigger yourself or flipped the switch to drop the bomb.

So are you innocent?

turnabout is fair play -- by your reasoning, whenever we zap a group of Afghans with a Predator missile, any women and children are fair game.

same with Nagasaki and Hiroshima and all the civilians killed there, by your logic they were all fair game. but what about Christians and POWs that were there?

for that matter what about, say, Swedish citizens or Swiss citizens on that plane
that are just visiting?

your logic is not just flawed, it is heinous.

lynn

[Working Poor]

I am very opposed to the war I have written my elected officials in Washington and I debate with everyone I can on the issue of us being over there in a war. Still I haven't done enough because we are still in the war.

[Reason]

I didn't vote republican or democrat in the last election...so, yes, I'm innocent.

cop out

&

You didn't vote for Ron Paul?

[LibertyWorker]

turnabout is fair play -- by your reasoning, whenever we zap a group of Afghans with a Predator missile, any women and children are fair game.

same with Nagasaki and Hiroshima and all the civilians killed there, by your logic they were all fair game. but what about Christians and POWs that were there?

for that matter what about, say, Swedish citizens or Swiss citizens on that plane
that are just visiting?

your logic is not just flawed, it is heinous.

lynn

If you want to talk about Nagasaki and Hiroshima Christian POWs Swiss citizens any other hypothetical s start your own thread.

This threads about Americans giving up their money so the government can Pursue flawed foreign policies.

[SelfTaught]

You can't blame a rape or theft victim for succumbing to the rape/theft, given that resistance could just make things worse. Better to walk away with your life intact than to die for your wallet.

If the mugger spends my cash on weapons that he'll use to hurt other people, I'm not responsible.

Exactly. The government steals my money but I'd rather pay taxes than get harassed by the IRS or get sent to jail for evading taxes. And let's say I don't pay my taxes and get sent to jail. Did I make a difference? No. There aren't enough people out there evading their taxes for just one person to make a difference. Then I would be rotting in jail and taxpayers would have to pay for that.

I didn't vote in the last election. I've never voted. So all these people in Congress and the White House -- I didn't put them there. Blame idiot voters. They are partly responsible for taking my money if the OP's logic follows.

[LibertyWorker]

Exactly. The government steals my money but I'd rather pay taxes than get harassed by the IRS or get sent to jail for evading taxes. And let's say I don't pay my taxes and get sent to jail. Did I make a difference? No. There aren't enough people out there evading their taxes for just one person to make a difference. Then I would be rotting in jail and taxpayers would have to pay for that.

I didn't vote in the last election. I've never voted. So all these people in Congress and the White House -- I didn't put them there. Blame idiot voters. They are partly responsible for taking my money if the OP's logic follows.

Thank you for your response. It is by far the most honest response that's been given so far.

And I think it would be the response that you would get from most Americans.

unfortunately it's also the reason that we will continue to fail.

[lynnf]

If you want to talk about Nagasaki and Hiroshima Christian POWs Swiss citizens any other hypothetical s start your own thread.

This threads about Americans giving up their money so the government can Pursue flawed foreign policies.

well, you were the one that brought up the planes hypothetical.


but as far as the recent wars, I have no argument with you there.
in fact, I have some history that you or others may not be familiar with.

the neo-con rationale for being there is false for the following reasons:

1. GW Bush said in 1999 "If elected, I will invade Iraq." (he said this to an insider author writing about the campaign)
2. Osama Bin Laden was on the CIA payroll up until 9/11 - remember Charlie Wilson's War? CIA was paying for opposition to the Russians in Afghanistan and beyond. By the neo-con logic, we should have attacked ourselves, also.
3. the Taliban offered to turn over Osama Bin Laden 3 times in 2001. we weren't interested.
4. Afghanistan was "taken" by a few troops and CIA agents and the assistance of the local warlords, a minimal investment saving resources for the real target- Iraq
5. we all know what happened with the "weapons of mass destruction" ploy

Iraq was the real target all along - and for no real reason other than GW wanted to invade.

[inibo]

Are you innocent?

If a terrorist blows up a plane full of Americans is he killing innocent people?

The American government takes the fruits of your labor and you don’t resist.

Then the government takes that money overthrows governments. It props up dictators who oppress and kills their own people. Our government invades other nations assassinates elected leaders bombs and kills people who have nothing except their lives and a dirt hut.

All these things are done in your name and in your countries name.

If you don’t resist with every fiber of your being what this government is doing.

You are just as guilty as if you pulled the trigger yourself or flipped the switch to drop the bomb.

So are you innocent?

Do you pay you pay taxes? Do you buy gasoline? Do you use a telephone? Do you buy electricity from from a "public" utility? Every one of those actions are sources of revenue for the federal government.

Unless you do none of those things, by you're reasoning you are as guilty as Donald Rumsfeld.

If you do avoid every one of those things you have my admiration and my curiosity as to how you manage to do it.

[lynnf]

Do you pay you pay taxes? Do you buy gasoline? Do you use a telephone? Do you buy electricity from from a "public" utility? Every one of those actions are sources of revenue for the federal government.

Unless you do none of those things, by you're reasoning you are as guilty as Donald Rumsfeld.

If you do avoid every one of those things you have my admiration and my curiosity as to how you manage to do it.



hey, inibo, where's bonobo?


(sorry, couldn't resist, just had to do it!)

lynn

[LibertyWorker]

Do you pay you pay taxes? Do you buy gasoline? Do you use a telephone? Do you buy electricity from from a "public" utility? Every one of those actions are sources of revenue for the federal government.

Unless you do none of those things, by you're reasoning you are as guilty as Donald Rumsfeld.

If you do avoid every one of those things you have my admiration and my curiosity as to how you manage to do it.

I never claimed not to be guilty.

I do my very best to pay very little.

And i burned my social slavery card a long time ago.;)

[inibo]

I never claimed to not to be guilty.

I do my very best to pay very little.

And i burned my social slavery card a long time ago.;)

Don't you think you were being a little harsh on the rest of us then?

I pay my taxes, including the little fee's they tack onto every phone and utility bill because if I didn't my life would be miserable. The way I see it if'n da massa gwan be beat'n me if'n I don' smile evr'y time he be walk'n by, I gwan be smil'n evr'y time...

...and piss in his coffee every chance I get.

[Anti Federalist]

Yes, guilty.

There is much more that can be done, I could be much more of a "refusenik" and perhaps absolve my guilt.

I don't, because I'm not keen on going to jail for the rest of my life like Ed and Elaine Brown, nor am willing to die a martyr's death at the hands of the state's enforcement goon squad.

And frankly, that's weak and cowardly of me.

And for that, I'm ashamed.

[BlackTerrel]

Spare me the guilt trip. The US does a lot of bad things, it's also the greatest country on earth, and a pretty kick ass place to live.

No nation is perfect, no individual either - except Christ.

[Chaohinon]

it's also the greatest country on earth, and a pretty kick ass place to live.only if you manage to ignore all the blood you're swimming in

[Toureg89]

i see a difference between direct aggressors and indirect aggressors.

people with guns, or in vehicular weapons (tanks, bombers, exc.) and who implement/enforce policy=direct aggressors, representing a direct, immediate, "real" threat

people who finance/support the the former, and who may or may not make policy (politicians, tax payers, exc.) =indirect aggressors, representing no "real" threat

i don't care who you are or what your reasons are, but if you kill a member of the latter, you deserve to die.

a moral, just war, if there is even such a thing, is one involving the casualties of the former.

of course the 9/11 hijackers had reason to be pissed at us, or even engage our military personnel.

but to target innocent (imo) civilians, they deserved to die in a fire, for all i care.

[American Nationalist]

only if you manage to ignore all the blood you're swimming in

http://www.uprct.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/crying-indian.jpg


Take it easy Ward Churchill.

[inibo]

http://www.uprct.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/crying-indian.jpg


Take it easy Ward Churchill.

http://escapedmentalpatient.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/dead-iraqi-child.jpg

Take it easy, Sean Hannity.

[American Nationalist]

http://escapedmentalpatient.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/dead-iraqi-child.jpg

Take it easy, Sean Hannity.

So if I don't say all American citizens have blood on their hands I am some Neo Con chickenhawk? How about instead of blaming Americans, the majority of whom oppose the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, why don't you blame those that got us into the mess and perpetuate the crisis. Blame AIPAC, PNAC, the Saudi Royal Family, Bush, Obama, Cheney, Lieberman, Military contractors, Large oil companies, Investment Banking(who underwrite the war debt).

Stop hating on the American people, Ward Churchill.
http://struckbyenlightning.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/crying-indian1.jpg

[BlackTerrel]

only if you manage to ignore all the blood you're swimming in

No country is perfect/no person is perfect. I still say we're pretty good. #1 by my standards and I'd rather live here than anywhere else. How about you?

I'm not sure what you want us to do. Yes we disagree with a lot of things our government does... that's why we're here.

[inibo]

So if I don't say all American citizens have blood on their hands I am some Neo Con chickenhawk? How about instead of blaming Americans, the majority of whom oppose the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, why don't you blame those that got us into the mess and perpetuate the crisis. Blame AIPAC, PNAC, the Saudi Royal Family, Bush, Obama, Cheney, Lieberman, Military contractors, Large oil companies, Investment Banking(who underwrite the war debt).

Stop hating on the American people, Ward Churchill.
http://struckbyenlightning.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/crying-indian1.jpg

The majority may oppose them now, though I doubt it, what with all the free passes Obama is getting from the "anti-war" left :rolleyes:, but where was that majority in 2004 when it could have made a difference? Oh, right, they were watching American Idol voting for W.

I'm not blaming Americans, whatever that means, I'm blaming the mindset that says it's all their fault, whoever they are. There is no they, there is only us. As long as we keep looking for enemies we will find them.

[Dieseler]

1913.
If you ain't in Federal Prison for tax evasion you bear the burden.

[BenIsForRon]

Yes, I'm innocent.

[YumYum]

Stop fighting. Watch and listen to this video.

YouTube - kris kristofferson - Why me Lord (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2u_rEcWW8M&feature=fvw)

[Met Income]

Spare me the guilt trip. The US does a lot of bad things, it's also the greatest country on earth, and a pretty kick ass place to live.

No nation is perfect, no individual either - except Christ.

If you lived outside of the US, would you be all "America - F YEAH"?

[Anti Federalist]

1913.
If you ain't in Federal Prison for tax evasion you bear the burden.

That +1

[Anti Federalist]

The majority may oppose them now, though I doubt it, what with all the free passes Obama is getting from the "anti-war" left :rolleyes:, but where was that majority in 2004 when it could have made a difference? Oh, right, they were watching American Idol voting for W.

I'm not blaming Americans, whatever that means, I'm blaming the mindset that says it's all their fault, whoever they are. There is no they, there is only us. As long as we keep looking for enemies we will find them.

And that +1

[inibo]

And that +1

I have my moments. :)

Thanks.

[tremendoustie]

Are you innocent?

If a terrorist blows up a plane full of Americans is he killing innocent people?

The American government takes the fruits of your labor and you don’t resist.

Then the government takes that money overthrows governments. It props up dictators who oppress and kills their own people. Our government invades other nations assassinates elected leaders bombs and kills people who have nothing except their lives and a dirt hut.

All these things are done in your name and in your countries name.

If you don’t resist with every fiber of your being what this government is doing.

You are just as guilty as if you pulled the trigger yourself or flipped the switch to drop the bomb.

So are you innocent?

If you get mugged, and the mugger uses your money for evil, that's the mugger's fault. It's not the fault of the victim for handing over his wallet when he's told, "your money or your life".

[fj45lvr]

No one is "innocent" while they sit by idly and watch it happen:

from The Writings of Samuel Adams, Volume II, published 1904 to 1908

ARTICLE SIGNED "CANDIDUS."




Messieurs EDES & GILL,

"Ambition saw that stooping Rome could bear
A MASTER, nor had Virtue to be free."

[B]I Believe that no people ever yet groaned under the heavy yoke of
slavery, but when they deserv'd it. This may be called a severe
censure upon by far the greatest part of the nations in the world who
are involv'd in the misery of servitude: But however they may be
thought by some to deserve commiseration, the censure is just.
Zuinglius, one of the first reformers, in his friendly admonition to
the republic of the Switzers, discourses much of his countrymens
throwing off the yoke: He says, that they who lie under oppression
deserve what they suffer, and a great more; and he bids them perish
with their oppressors. The truth is, All might be free if they valued
freedom, and defended it as they ought. Is it possible that millions
could be enslaved by a few, which is a notorious fact, if all
possessed the independent spirit of Brutus, who to his immortal
honor, expelled the proud Tyrant of Rome, and his "royal and
rebellious race?" If therefore a people will not be free; if they
have not virtue enough to maintain their liberty against a
presumptuous invader, they deserve no pity, and are to be treated
with contempt and ignominy. Had not Caesar seen that Rome was ready
to stoop, he would not have dared to make himself the master of that
once brave people. He was indeed, as a great writer observes, a
smooth and subtle tyrant, who led them gently into slavery; "and on
his brow, 'ore daring vice deluding virtue smil'd". By pretending to
be the peoples greatest friend, he gain'd the ascendency over them:
By beguiling arts, hypocrisy and flattery, which are even more fatal
than the sword, he obtain'd that supreme power which his ambitious
soul had long thirsted for: The people were finally prevail'd upon to
consent to their own ruin: By the force of perswasion, or rather by
cajoling arts and tricks always made use of by men who have ambitious
views, they enacted their Lex Regia: whereby Quod placuit principi
legis habuit vigorem; that is, the Will and pleasure of the Prince
had the force of law. His minions had taken infinite pains to paint
to their imaginations the god-like virtues of Caesar: They first
persuaded them to believe that he was a deity, and then to sacrifice
to him those Rights and Liberties which their ancestors had so long
maintained, with unexampled bravery, and with blood & treasure. By
this act they fixed a precedent fatal to all posterity: The Roman
people afterwards, influenced no doubt by this pernicious example,
renew'd it to his successors, not at the end of every ten years, but
for life. They transfer'd all their right and power to Charles the
Great: In eum transtulit omne suum jus et poteslatem. Thus, they
voluntarily and ignominiously surrendered their own liberty, and
exchanged a free constitution for a TYRANNY!

It is not my design at present to form the comparison between the
state of this country now, and that of the Roman Empire in those
dregs of time; or between the disposition of Caesar, and that of ---;
The comparison, I confess, would not in all parts hold good: The
Tyrant of Rome, to do him justice, had learning, courage, and great
abilities. It behoves us however to awake and advert to the danger we
are in. The Tragedy of American Freedom, it is to be feared is nearly
compleated: A Tyranny seems to be at the very door. It is to little
purpose then to go about cooly to rehearse the gradual steps that
have been taken, the means that have been used, and the instruments
employed, to encompass the ruin of the public liberty: We know them
and we detest them. But what will this avail, if we have not courage
and resolution to prevent the completion of their system?

Our enemies would fain have us lie down on the bed of sloth and
security, and persuade ourselves that there is no danger They are
daily administering the opiate with multiplied arts and delusions,
and I am sorry to observe, that the gilded pill is so alluring to
some who call themselves the friends of Liberty. But is there no
danger when the very foundations of our civil constitution tremble? -
When an attempt was first made to disturb the corner-stone of the
fabrick, we were universally and justly alarmed: And can we be cool
spectators, when we see it already removed from its place? With what
resentment and indignation did we first receive the intelligence of a
design to make us tributary, not to natural enemies, but infinitely
more humiliating, to fellow subjects? And yet with unparallelled
insolence we are told to be quiet, when we see that very money which
is torn from us by lawless force, made use of still further to
oppress us - to feed and pamper a set of infamous wretches, who swarm
like the locusts of Egypt; and some of them expect to revel in wealth
and riot on the spoils of our country. - Is it a time for us to sleep
when our free government is essentially changed, and a new one is
forming upon a quite different system? A government without the least
dependance upon the people: A government under the absolute controul
of a minister of state; upon whose sovereign dictates is to depend
not only the time when, and the place where, the legislative assembly
shall sit, but whether it shall sit at all: And if it is allowed to
meet, it shall be liable immediately to be thrown out of existence,
if in any one point it fails in obedience to his arbitrary mandates.
Have we not already seen specimens of what we are to expect under
such a government, in the instructions which Mr. HUTCHINSON has
received, and which he has publickly avow'd, and declared he is bound
to obey? - By one, he is to refuse his assent to a tax-bill, unless
the Commissioners of the Customs and other favorites are exempted:
And if these may be freed from taxes by the order of a minister, may
not all his tools and drudges, or any others who are subservient to
his designs, expect the same indulgence? By another he is to forbid
to pass a grant of the assembly to any agent, but one to whose
election he has given his consent; which is in effect to put it out
of our power to take the necessary and legal steps for the redress of
those grievances which we suffer by the arts and machinations of
ministers, and their minions here. What difference is there between
the present state of this province, which in course will be the
deplorable state of all America, and that of Rome, under the law
before mention'd? The difference is only this, that they gave their
formal consent to the change, which we have not yet done. But let us
be upon our guard against even a negative submission; for agreeable
to the sentiments of a celebrated writer, who thoroughly understood
his subject, if we are voluntarily silent, as the conspirators would
have us to be, it will be consider'd as an approbation of the change.
"By the fundamental laws of England, the two houses of parliament in
concert with the King, exercise the legislative power: But if the two
houses should be so infatuated, as to resolve to suppress their
powers, and invest the King with the full and absolute government,
certainly the nation would not suffer it." And if a minister shall
usurp the supreme and absolute government of America, and set up his
instructions as laws in the colonies, and their Governors shall be so
weak or so wicked, as for the sake of keeping their places, to be
made the instruments in putting them in execution, who will presume
to say that the people have not a right, or that it is not their
indispensible duty to God and their Country, by all rational means in
their power to RESIST THEM.

"Be firm, my friends, nor let UNMANLY SLOTH
Twine round your hearts indissoluble chains.
Ne'er yet by force was freedom overcome.
Unless CORRUPTION first dejects the pride,
And guardian vigour of the free-born soul,
All crude attempts of violence are vain.
Determined, hold
Your INDEPENDENCE; for, that once destroy'd,
Unfounded Freedom is a morning dream."

The liberties of our Country, the freedom of our civil constitution
are worth defending at all hazards: And it is our duty to defend them
against all attacks. We have receiv'd them as a fair Inheritance from
our worthy Ancestors: They purchas'd them for us with toil and danger
and expence of treasure and blood; and transmitted them to us with
care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on
the present generation, enlightned as it is, if we should suffer them
to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle; or be cheated
out of them by the artifices of false and designing men. Of the
latter we are in most danger at present: Let us therefore be aware of
it. Let us contemplate our forefathers and posterity; and resolve to
maintain the rights bequeath'd to us from the former, for the sake of
the latter. - Instead of sitting down satisfied with the efforts we
have already made, which is the wish of our enemies, the necessity of
the times, more than ever, calls for our utmost circumspection,
deliberation, fortitude and perseverance. Let us remember, that "if
we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it,
and involve others in our doom." It is a very serious consideration,
which should deeply impress our minds, that millions yet unborn may
be the miserable sharers in the event.

[kahless]

the Taliban offered to turn over Osama Bin Laden 3 times in 2001. we weren't interested.

Sources please? thx

[LibForestPaul]

Are you innocent?
Lost that long time ago.

If a terrorist blows up a plane full of Americans is he killing innocent people?
No such thing as a terrorist. Since p is false then q is true.:p

The American government takes the fruits of your labor and you don’t resist.
Yes

Then the government takes that money overthrows governments. It props up dictators who oppress and kills their own people. Our government invades other nations assassinates elected leaders bombs and kills people who have nothing except their lives and a dirt hut.
Yes

All these things are done in your name and in your countries name.
False. They are done to enrich a few.

If you don’t resist with every fiber of your being what this government is doing.
You are just as guilty as if you pulled the trigger yourself or flipped the switch to drop the bomb.
No. Perhaps those that are part of government, military, etc.

I have no moral qualms with those that smash planes into important buildings. Hopefully, those (both foreign and domestic) that declare war against this treacherous government realize how many victims there actually are and who they may be.

[Dieseler]

Heh, We are all enemy combatants.
Like it or not.

[BlackTerrel]

If you lived outside of the US, would you be all "America - F YEAH"?

Who knows? From where I sit we're pretty good. I've been to school with a lot of people from other countries and I'd say there's a reason so many people prefer to live here than where they came from.

No we're not perfect, we have many flaws. No I don't feel guilty for being American - I'm proud of being an American.

[Anti Federalist]

No I don't feel guilty for being American

The question wasn't: "Do you feel guilty for being an American?"

The question was: "Are you guilty?" (Or, to be more accurate to the OP, the question was, "are you innocent?" Same, same as far as I'm concerned)

Now, if the government truly is "we the people" and "we" are the government's sole enablers, then we are guilty, individually.

[BlackTerrel]

The question wasn't: "Do you feel guilty for being an American?"

The question was: "Are you guilty?" (Or, to be more accurate to the OP, the question was, "are you innocent?" Same, same as far as I'm concerned)

Now, if the government truly is "we the people" and "we" are the government's sole enablers, then we are guilty, individually.

Ok in that case - no I'm not guilty.

[Anti Federalist]

I have my moments. :)

Thanks.

More than welcome. ;)

[Met Income]

Who knows? From where I sit we're pretty good. I've been to school with a lot of people from other countries and I'd say there's a reason so many people prefer to live here than where they came from.

No we're not perfect, we have many flaws. No I don't feel guilty for being American - I'm proud of being an American.

We're successful because of economic and personal freedoms, which are decreasing everyday. And we go around the world setting up empires, invading nations, and killing innocents. So no, we're not good.

[inibo]

Sources please? thx

Here are a couple. There are many others (http://www.google.com/search?&q=taliban+refused+to+turn+over+bin+laden). The US government relies on the short attention span of its citizenry to keep it from being accountable.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7133118

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2009/12/did-us-fail-to-provide-evidence-of-bin.html